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Treasury Secretaries Scott Besson and Fedschaer Powell summoned Wall Street leaders to an urgent meeting of a potential cyber risks from Anthropics new AI model plus. Anthropic has agreed to rent data centers from Core We've to power such AI services. We've book the Core Weave CEO Michael Litrator this hour and after an historic trip around the Moon, the crew of artemists to prepare to splash down today. But first
we check in on these markets. An extraordinary rally has occurred over the last few days, I hope on the conflict resolution is nearing the US and the Middle East. Of course, with Iran, that discussion happens over the course of the weekend.
We're up almost five percent on.
The NASTET one hundred were up for two straight weeks, and indeed it's the best week we've seen since November of last year.
But there is a lot of.
Banks under the service of what's happening with the course of AI developments.
Let's take into a key story everyone is reading today.
Bloomberg has learned that Treasury Secretary Scott Vessont and FED chair Jerome pal summoned Wall Street leaders. These leaders to an urgent meeting earlier this week.
Soss say.
The focus was on concerns that anthropics knew AI model will usher in an era of greater cyber risk.
Look that echoes the AI lab's own worries.
It gave tech financial firms limited access to the Mythos model to help prepare. Let's get all of the discussion with Bloomberg's Banking and Finance reporter Kavin Dougherty and Catherine What's notable is the urgency with which this happened.
Correct.
Yes, so earlier this week, many of these CEOs were
already in DC for the Financial Services Forum. But the level to which this meeting guard arranged that wasn't previously on the agenda and the hush hush nature, it really was not meant to be something that was broadcast, even though you have Brian moynihan, the CEOs from City Goldman, all of these big bank leaders that again would have already been participating in some form of meetings already around DC, but this one was meant to be something that was
behind the scenes and a precautionary measure, something that is starting the discussion about the concerns that are being raised around these AI tech issues that are coming into view right now.
I think it's very early days.
And the next step after this initial meeting, and again because the discussions are just starting, is how the banks deal with and prevent any further scrutiny that might come up from other advanced tech that they might either be implementing or going to slowly be implementing in the future.
Look, it was interesting that Jamie Dimond will there seemingly a calendar conflict, but he's already part of the glass Wing project. As it's known already. Mythos and the power of this AI model of anthropic was well known, and Anthhrobic itself would put it into the hands of forty such partners, including JP Morgan to ensure that they stress tests to ensure that.
They're on board.
So are these CEOs well aware of the power of these AI models, Because Look, Open Eye has been doing similar things trying and educate about the cyber concerns.
That's right, there are guardrails, and that's really why these steps are being taken. This has not just been widely disseminated to these companies or to the public for that matter. So these CEOs, I think, for the ones that were a part of this meeting, you have both the discussions of raising awareness and then if you are already aware of what are you doing about it? How are you taking steps to protect your data your internal data that includes all of the data that you have on the
US consumers that you're banking. So these are the kind of things that are being really talked about, both from the precautionary level and then strategy wise how they can put guardrails in place. As you mentioned some of the companies that are already part of this project Glass Wing, they're they're testing these things out and that means that they're both looking at how their systems can be improved. Really, these AI models are not meant to be things that are there.
There's upside is what it's downside side exactly.
It's it's meant to be something that helps, right improves and identifies some of the vulnerabilities, but then it's meant to protect and so the questions have emerged though of if you identify and then the tech gets around it and starts to take advantage of those vulnerabilities that they identify.
Those are the main concerns that are being brought up.
For these systemically important that financial companies. I mean, it's catheinatots with all the news that's happening when it comes to the relationship of the bank San Anthropic can Look, let's talk about the compute.
Needed for Anthropic.
Maybe that's in some way why we're seeing a limited rollout of mythos shares a core Wave though, as you can see, treading up thirteen percent after landing a multi year deal with Anthropic renting out data center capacity to power its clawed AI models as demand for the infrastructure surgeons. This comes just a day after Carewave, of course, announced that whopping twenty one billion dollar deal with Meta. We want to get an analyst, take rent fillers with us, Jeffries,
You've got a buy rating. I believe one hundred and twenty dollars price target. Look, how much does the sentiment around core weave with its Meta deal now in its Anthropic deal end up pushing out the price target at least for this company.
Yeah, I mean, we have one hundred and twenty dollars price Targan to buy and you know, the stock get obviously started pretty weak on some of the AI concerns, but I think what we've seen is they continue to sign the A list talent in AI, Meta and thropic, their Microsoft Google. They are the luxury AI builder or to the stars.
Luxury being that they offer in video compute in particular brend.
Or how are we seeing that being diversified at this moment.
Yeah, they're the luxury builder, and they basically help assemble what is required for these systems to work. Doesn't matter the ingredients. They'll take whatever you want, whether you're you want a steak dinner, salmon dinner, vegan, whatever, they will assemble according to your needs.
And when you have the best data center builders in the world.
Turning to core Weave, it's a pretty strong signal. And what I'd say is that none of these companies can build the infrastructure on their own. Microsoft said and their last learnings call they don't have enough physical buildings to put the compute in. And everyone is seeing this from the AI conference this week in San Francisco. There's not enough compute and that's why semis are going straight up and software is going straight down because Capex continues to explode.
Yeah, is the r I pushed out?
Perhaps, but corter Weave is going to be caught up into this in the next few years.
And you say it's been volatile, and it hasn't been straight up, and the volatility has come about.
How it affords at the moment.
You know, we saw some volatile trading just yesterday because when they announced the Meta deal, they also talked about selling more convertible debt and the idea that they have to finance the revenue growth. How are you getting comfortable with that with koweve.
Well, they you know, in our in our math, they have something like ninety billion dollars of backlog and these customers are you know, minimum five year deals.
They commit a certain amount up front.
They just raise capital at a lower cost of capital than they've raised because they're geining these from some of the best companies in the world. They're not signing up you know, Sally or Joe's data center infrastructure down the road. They're signing up Meta, Google, you know, Microsoft, that the top companies in the world that have ginormous cash flow
and have no funny concerns. And again I think the CEO has said this repeatedly, Michael, which is, you know, these are contracted to committed contracts that are legally stamped that they can't turn back on. And so you know, look the long term question of what does the margin look like and can they produce an incredible software like business like what Amazon and Azure did at Microsoft, that's the real question.
I think they're leaning that way. And if they do this, the stock can even go a lot higher.
And right now we don't have proof that like that is completely off the ground.
And is flying with no turbulence. I think that's the direction.
And if they pull this off, which is today they build the infrastructure and then tomorrow they're building and capturing the software, these workloads will not move and they will stay with them for a long time. So that's the real question. So I'd say tactically in a really good spot, I think long term we all have questions about what
the model, what the business looks like. But when you have CAPEX going up seventy percent for the industry and we're going to spend seven hundred billion dollars in This company has you know, a fifty to sixty billion dollar market cap, and they have ninety billion dollars to contracted backlog plus, Like I think it pretty much tells you a signal like the stock's going higher.
Talk to us about how Athropics started the week, and it's felt like a.
Very long week. But cast our minds back.
They were part of the Google and Broadcom announcement and the idea that they're going to be using ever more TPUs perhaps coming from Google, which are of.
Course formed by Broadcom.
How much of a need is there for Anthropic to get the compute right now? Can you do you have any idea of which of the customers that are most in.
The need and know right now? Because there's some reporting.
Out there that maybe Mythos is being rolled out slowly because these new models have to be rolled out slowly because.
There isn't that the compute to satisfy all our needs.
Well, Inthropic, we've never seen a company get to thirty billion this fast, right and so when you think about Entropic looks like a it looks like a rocket taken off. We've never seen a company you know that they beat Google, they beat Amazon, they beat everyone you know to this thirty billion dollars target. So no one's seen this. And what we keep hearing from everyone, in including my own use of Anthropic and in open Ai, you can see it. They keep throttling users, they keep trying to get.
You to pay more. They've they've told you've reached limitations.
We've heard repeatedly that you know, again, there was a big article that you guys wrote on Amy Hood stalling data center build out at Microsoft and how you know she hasn't publicly said this, but how they regret it and they wish they had to build more and they just the last quarter they don't have enough physical buildings. So like right now, the demand is so great and
it's coming from all angles. You look at Meta, Microsoft, Open Ai, and Thropic, even Oracle, we've heard you know, they aren't as priced aggressive, and they're not price aggressive because they don't have to be because there's really no
demand and so they can charge whatever they want. So you're seeing signals everywhere that in this again, I think this is why I group I cover software is going to trade down, and why hardware and Semi's you know memory, look at SanDisk, look at bluem Energy, you look at what's going on on all the picks and shovels of AI.
We are nowhere near built out.
And if you believe the CEO soft Bank that we're going to have half half a you know, trilling dollar data centers for AI, but we might have trilling dollar uh robotics data centers in the future. I mean this this again, I don't I don't want to be like it's it's these are big, big numbers and we're really really early to build out. I think the sea of an encore wave has been saying this. I mean, I don't think Microsoft has said this repeatedly.
They can they sit.
Down and their hair is on fire, and literally they cannot keep up with what they're doing every single day because the customers are demanding this, and you see it in the revenue numbers from all the AI stories that we're covering.
Brent, Thank you, you always spent out so clearly for us. Have a good weekend, Brent, Phil of Jeffrey's there and stay with Bloomberg Tech.
We've got call. We've coming on.
Michael in Trader joins in less than thirty minutes time in New York coming up any more. To dig in on the AI trade, TSMC sales surging thirty five percent.
That's even as Middle Ease tensions persist.
However, Asian stocks today extend their slide, and that's a software issue. But it was just talking about it as a Bloomberg Tech. AI remains a tale.
Of two markets.
Let's talk about that with TSMC, for example, hardware defying Middle East volatility with a thirty five percent revenue increase as a AI infrastructured demand just surges. But software stocks just look what happened across Asia trading, for example, They're continuing to struggle and they're sinking here in the US too.
Bloomberg's UK Young Lee can talk us through.
It, or let's go to the glass half full.
TSMC numbers phenomenal.
Absolutely so our TSMC is the most valuable company in Asia and it's the world's largest founder of chip maker
SAWS first call. The results were important and investors were looking for clues whether the impact from the prolonged war in Iran before the ceasefire had any impact on the demand for the AI data center or gadgets like the iPhone and It's clear that looking at this first quarter result which were higher than projection, that that is going to ease the concerns about this war having an impact on the AI data centers or demand free a data center,
or the gadgets like the iPhone. So the war in Middle East has been pressuring the energy prices and the shipping routes, and there were concerns, and these earnings are going to give clues to investors whether there will be impact on the tech giants spending plan. The shares also rose. The shares rose two percent in Taiwan overnight and it's also rising in the SADR is also rising in the US. It was close to the February peak all time high
in Taiwan. So clear that there's a rally in the hardware tech space, I.
Mean a very round number right now, two forty five points. But then on the downside, same thing is happening here in the US.
People are selling off software.
What's sparked in Asia absolutely that software selloff. We saw that spreading to Asia overnight, especially the Indian market which has have the exposure to software style, saw saw big sell off in the in the software names. And this is the resumption of the AI disruption fear that we saw before the war in ir Iran, and definitely there was the there was a by Asia tech names, hardware tech name before the war started and during the war, the high flying hardware tex stiles were the most beaten
down during the war. And we're seeing kind of a reversal story here. We're seeing the resumption of the cellof in the AI software name, not only in the US, but also in Asia, and this recovery in the beaten down hardware tech memory ship or other hardware tech names in Asia.
We want to thank you Kenley all over what's happening with the Asian trade. Let's bring it back to the United States and more broadly so, Jamonski's with a CEO at Defiance ETFs saying, the markets are being driven by two powerful forces right now as well, and one side it's AI growth, on the other side it's geopolitical tension.
And because we head towards a weekend, whether we'll be discussions and Vice President Vance flying out at the moment hopefully secure a more secure end or resolution to the conflict, how does that affect you what you're seeing in terms of purchasing of the ETFs.
Yeah, so it's really interesting. I think that what we've seen over the last couple of months or so is that a lot of the thematic ETFs that are in the AI space, whether it's AI power, whether it's AI infrastructure structure, whether it's like the straight ship names, you know, they've taken a hit very much like they have in other crisises, whether it's you know, Ukraine tension, whether it's COVID,
things like this and you know, Lo and Behold. We hear that a resolution could be on the way, and all of these names start to rally again into the market. So I think I'll just be looking at what happens with the geopolitical conflict because I think that long term, this is the investable story. It's all about AIAI infrastructure, AI energy, AI space and connectivity. But I think think that the geopolitics it will be a huge overhang. If we don't see a resolution there, expect a lot of
market volatility, expect a pullback. If we do hear that the ceasefire is more than a ceasefire and we're sort of moving forward, then I think the market's back on track for a positive potentially positive year, but.
With the angst.
Of course, with war it's about people and humanity, yes, but there's also supply chain, people's access to raw materials that really need in the rest of the world, and that's a chip story in anyways.
Yeah, I mean that's a huge story now. But again it'll depend on when this ends, right, So I think if there's a resolution to the conflict soon, a lot of what we're seeing on the supply side will be resolved in a month or two. Right, It won't be overnight, but I think we'll get back to kind of reverting to the mean there.
But I think we'll get.
Back to all the problems with supply chain that already exists AI.
That already existed, but it won't kind of pile on and get worse.
Right.
But I think if this goes on for another month or two, then you really start worrying about things like inflation, the price of oil, gas and energy and how that factors into the consumer's wallet and then the stock market.
I mean, price has been factoring into the AI buildout, where of course from reporting the open AI is curtailing at stargate UK ambitions because of energy prices there how much you seeing the ETFs showing that either that we're in a bubble or indeed that there's still this more worried that the stranglehold, the choke hold is really a lack of energy and a lack of infrastructure.
Yeah, I mean, what I would say is I would almost take the criteria view on that because if anything, we've seen infos back into the AI energy trade, like the AI Energy and Infrastructure Trade for example, has been probably one of our most popular in the last couple of weeks because I think investors are looking at it and saying, like, we already have this backlog. As you're saying, right now, AI is using four point five percent of the world's energy in two to three years, it's supposed
to be ten percent. Throw on top of that the geopolitical issues and you know the supply issue there what happens over time becomes more expensive. These companies could benefit from this over time. So I do think that overall it does benefit AI infrastructure in the future.
Your ets very much hot ware exposed ro on than software exposed, and at the moment, software hasing a terrible day of it as well. Even names like Palenteer which are a defense play and even President Trump himself talking about Palenteer and the application in war. What's interesting we spoke with the CTO a couple of weeks ago talking about how this is an AI war.
Just take a listen for a moment.
Obviously, current current operations aren't going, but I think people will reflect back and say, this is the first large scale combat operation that was really driven, enhanced, made substantially more productive with technology with AI.
And really we did see the CTO articulating that we've never seen a conflict like this as AI exposed. How much is that being shown in some of your etf Jedi for example, those that are focused on Warren drones.
Yeah, so Jedi has certainly, you know, had its day in the sun. I think a lot of investors have flocked to it for that reason. It holds stocks like Palenteer, and it also holds the drone company. It's like Kratos for example, Aero environment and what happens here is that
war has changed, Right. It's perhaps not as much about the two hundred million dollar missile, but the two thousand drones that you can send over for you know, hundreds and thousands of dollars right, and it's more effective they're unmanned drones and things like this. It's more about information and the ability and priority of decision making versus just tanks on the ground. Right. I think AI has changed completely the way that.
The world will approach war.
And so if you think about that, you know, we've had trillions of dollars of spending an aerospace and defense since the Cold War. It's the highest amount of spending that we've seen and that's projected to just continue to grow at a twenty to thirty percent cager after Iran and the conflict who knows even more, right, So I do think that a lot of the drones, the satellites, the space names, the Pallanteer's longer term will be on the eyes of investors for that reason, not to.
Mention with a SpaceX IPA coming up and Oultimus ongoing. Sylvia Gabald Scate has been great having you with us. Thank Thanky of Defiance ETFs coming up will discuss the major AI models that come out Thick and Falls this week.
Well do they.
Compete against and how is that competition between the frontier labs.
We're on that next sus room leg Tech.
It has been a busy week for AI model releases, with new.
Announcements from China's Ali Baba as well as Anthropic Meta to s break this all down onluegs AI reporter showing Gafari, it's been an extraordinary week and just the fear factor alone around Anthropic and Methos.
How are you discerning.
Whether it's real worries about its power or real lack of compute.
That means it's doing a slow roll out here.
So it's a fair question.
Until we have this model rolled out more widely, it's going to be difficult to say right now there are you know, under fifty organizations partner organizations that can actually get their hands on this model. That being said, from the few people who have publicly experimented with it and
talked about it, they are taking it seriously. And as Bloomberg reported this morning, the government is as well hosting a meeting among some government leaders to talk about the potential vulnerable to the financial sector that technology is like this could raise if released.
Sharane, what does all this meant for Opening Eye, because it's been an extraordinary week for them as well in terms of public relations, but also what's been happening in terms of them saying to their own investors, according to your reporting, that look, we're ahead of the game because we've got more compute, but yet they're not going ahead with certain compute projects in the UK for example.
Yes, again, you know, everyone is parsing different signals here and trying to understand which way things are headed, are
rather why certain decisions are made. But what we do know is that there is still this compute crunch and that all the major EI labs say they need much more compute in order to be able to serve their customer and that their customers, and that tracks with what we're seeing in terms of restrictions on free usage with some of the major vendors, and you know they're charging more right for the most premium products.
So with open.
AI, what we know is that they still very much have these ambitious plans for a stargate to roll out lots and lots of gigawatts of energy that people have never seen before in terms of the.
Size numbers for powering AI.
At the same time, we are seeing a pullback on that UK site, a pause citing energy concern setting regulatory concerns. So price does matter here. They can't pay an unlimited amount for.
It, shrin KAfari, You're across all of these things.
It's so busy.
We didn't even mention what's been the new smart announcement for Meta and what's happened with Video and Alibaba and China.
We so appreciate you joining today. Thank you. Coming up, we're going to talk about that.
Compute crunch speaking of the michaelgon Trator, Cally CEO.
This is bloombag Tech. Welcome back to bloombg Tech.
Let's check in on these markets because we're saying an all show, it's a tale of two halves, and as that one hundred is shown without how do wire outperformance? In particular, at the moment, we're up four ten percent. In fact, we're up more than four percent on the week now, even as we see consumer price jump, that core level of inflation actually relatively tamed. So we got some support for risk assets. We've got planned piece talks
throughout the weekend. That is the macro perspective. But then we're also thinking about the software sellup or by two point six percent on the ETF that tracks software names once again to tumult really ensuing from what the likes Fanthropic status models other developments really mean for this area.
Look at Palo Alto Networks.
Here's a company that's actually helping with the Mythos trial. When you think about Glass Project in particular Glass Wing Project, where they're testing with some forty partners to be able to get ahead of any cyber risks. Paloto Networks is one of those, but it's still off by seven percent worse day in two years as we worry about how
software names are reconfigured in the age of AI. Core Weave though benefits on the hardware side, we're up twelve percent because there is an absolute need for compute and infrastructure, and today they announce that they're doing that for Anthropic. Let's get to the CEO of core Weave now, Michael, and Trader joins us. You've just had twenty one billion
dollar dealt with Meta yesterday. You have Anthropic today. Michael, what does this mean for your investors in terms of the clarity of revenue growth coming forward?
Yeah, at first talk, good afternoon, Thank you for having me. But it has been a unique couple of weeks for us here because not only have we really made our tremendous progress with the likes of Meta and Anthropic, But we've also had a tremendous, overwhelming success in the capital markets as we continue to build the funding mechanisms to be able to ensure that we are able to execute on our roadmap for growth.
Let's talk about those funding mechanisms, because you're looking at unique ways to be able to get access to credit lines by using basically the power of your customer. The fact that META is the one that's coming to you for the compute and the strength there.
You're also tapping though well.
Convertible notes was what was issued yesterday as well as bonds.
We're seeking billions of that.
How much more debt are you going to have to take con to fuel the growth?
So uh, you know, we're we've been very creative about how we kind of look at the capital markets making sure that we can uh execute on our plan for for the in the most cost effective way.
And so you know, we we issued eight and a.
Half billion dollars worth of bonds UH at a minus UH of a minus paper because of the quality of our count parties, and you know, that was a tremendous UH reduction in our weighted average cost of capital. And then we came back yesterday we did the largest dual offering ever UH and that was both the the the the convertible note that we issued as well as UH a tranche of high yield you know, really positioning us
well for the capital requirements. And it's just the the over subscription to to these UH, to these UH tools that we're bringing into market, to the paper that we're bringing to market, really provides tremendous transparency to us, to our investors, to our clients about how much access we are going to be given to capital as we continue to execute on this strategy. And you know, people are really confident the cost capital keeps coming down in our
ability to kind of drive the compute. That is so dear to all of these model UH creators and product people who are producing product for for artificial intelligence. You know, it's just been you know, an extraordinary week both on the on the capital raise sign as well as the client contract side.
As the coast of capital comes down, it gets more.
How much more money do you need to get for the Denmark is Michael?
Yeah.
So so look, you know, our our strategy continues to be success created right, And so we go out and we execute a contract like the one we just did with Meta, and now with that contract in hand, we will go to the capital markets and we will raise debt that will be at a very low cost of capital to be able to build the infrastructure to deliver
on that contract. Each of our contracts are profitable and drive wonderful return and at the parent code, we're just looking to continue to scale into this, you know, unique opportunity to kind of build, you know, an enormous company that is instrumental in delivering infrastructure to the world.
How much does Anthropic need.
So we're we're not at liberty to speak to the size of that contract. It is a multi billion dollar contract, but really much more importantly than that, from our perspective, this is the first contract that we've executed with them.
It's the first time that they've used somebody out of one of their core investors, and they came to us because of the quality of the infrastructure and the software solutions that we provide, and so, you know, we just think it's an incredible vote of confidence from one of the most important lands in the world, and we think that it's going to be a launch pad for additional business between us and them, just as every other client that we've we've brought on really all the major clients.
They come on, they do a contract with us and it's a land and extand expand strategy for both both parties. You know, we really build from that into a very broad based relationship where we've become an integral part of their infrastructure strategy.
Let's talk about methods.
Does the slow unveil of the model to unique partners does that signal an issue with Compute?
So look, you know the strategy that that that Anthropic is using to you know, as they kind of bring their products to market is really you know, you know, it's it's it's it's their strategy.
You know, our job in.
This ecosystem is to provide as much infrastructure at the highest quality that we can, right and they came to us, They engaged us because they have demand for Compute because of the wonderful products that they are bringing to market, and that's you know, being echoed across the different labs, you know, universally, and you know, our role in this is really to go ahead and to deliver the infrastructure that these companies are going to need and currently need
to be able to successfully deliver their product to market.
That's what our role is we do. Michael.
I'm fascinated by the global perspective you have here because the geopolitical environment that we live in at the moment means that energy prices are driving up, particularly over in Europe and the UK. Open AI we have reporting that they're pulling back on their stargate project in the UK because energy is getting too expensive. And yet they're going out to their investors and saying, look, we're ahead of the game. We're ahead of anthropic because of our compute
that we have. What are you seeing in terms of people trying to rearrange where their computer is access from?
Yeah, look, you know. The way I kind of view it, and my background really is in the commodity space, is that people are going to be very thoughtful about managing the cost of delivering infrastructure. And some of that is going to come from the energy side. It's going to be, hey, where can we get electrons that are effectively priced so
that we can continue to drive our company. But it's also going to come from places like Corewave, where our software and the yield on the compute that we build is just higher than other alternatives because of the quality of the software environment that we build. And so you're seeing both sides of that coin really being driven, and you're seeing the success of our infrastructure and the adoption of our infrastructure because of the part that we can impact.
And so we look at the different energy markets. We place our infrastructure in lots of different places in order to mitigate localized risks such as what's happening in Europe at the moment. But we really do think that the part that we can directly control is the quality of the infrastructure we delivered.
Do you pull back from the UK?
Michael, No, No, we have no intention of pulling back from the UK. We are well positioned there. We have you know, a great relationship with the energy companies, with the data centers, and you know, with the with the broader economy over there, and we absolutely will continue to build and expand our footprint in those jurisdictions.
Michael and Tracha, I always wish we had more time with you. Thank you. It's been a busy week. Can you some rest, We appreciate it or we've.
See you coming up a busy week for four NASA astronauts. They flew around the Moon returning home maybe the most dangerous part. We'll discuss the expectations for Artemis two splashdown.
That's next. There's a blue big tech.
After its historic trip around the Moon, the crew of Artemists two is preparing to splash down in the Pacific Ocean this evening. Now, the three Americans one Canadian broken record for distance traveled by humans and of the first witness parts of the lunar surface, as they traveled closer to the Moon than people have been in fifty years. Now they're preparing for a pretty fary plunge back into Earth's atmosphere in a major test.
Of the Orion capsule's heat shield.
Let's discuss that and what to expect with Blueberg's space reporter Sana Pashanka and Sana. Why is this such a test for Orion and the capsule.
Yeah, so, during the first Urnamis one mission, we saw that there were some issues with the Orion's heat shield. Upon re entry, they had noticed some chunks of it had basically you know, fallen off when when the.
Ryan capsule.
Splashed down, and so that was kind of a test of what is to come and you know, they're trying out a different type of re entry this time in which the orion capsule will be exposed to those fiery temperatures for a less amount of time. So, you know, NASA says they feel very confident in the performance of the heat shield this time around, but you know, time will tell.
Just with Lukie Martin built Ryan Crewe crapsule in particular, how has the company been navigating through this as well and how how have all entities work together to ensure that this is the safest possible splash down.
Yeah, so Laki Martin said has said that they have done a very comprehensive investigation following Artemis one of their heat shield and you know what exactly went wrong, and have done more testing with the heat shield of you know, the current capsule to ensure that they wouldn't face the same issues again with this different type of re entry. So they definitely feel confident, and they have also engineered a new type of heat shield for the following Artemis
mission starting with Artemis three. So you know, they've said that they have really investigated the issues, worked through them, fixed them, and that will be implemented on the subsequent missions following this one.
Sana, but as busy week.
Thanks for joining us, Sana for Shanka, they're our space reporter.
Let's get even more with Lori Leshen.
She's professor of Space Future at Arizona State University. Form ahead of a Nassa's jet propulsion laboratory first whenever to do that, and just the scale of the anxiety as we wait for them for this splashdown at five pm Pacific time, eight pm here in New York.
Yeah, I mean it's definitely one of those pins and needles moments.
We tend to.
You know, it's a little bit like waiting in line for a roller coaster. You're both nervous and excited. We're so thrilled to have the astronauts coming back down, but it is going to be a pins and needles moment for sure until they are safely back on the ship after they landed in the ocean.
Talk about some of the numbers here, ten metric ton Ryan capsule, about twice the pass of the Apollo capsule as you put it, Lori, And what.
Speeds are they hitting and how hard is.
This to scientifically ensure that the heat protections that.
Yeah, so it is it's a ten metric ton capsule, about twice the mass of Apollo when it, you know, re entered the atmosphere, so it's bigger, which is great for the astronauts. We've seen the cramped quarters. Can you imagine how small that Apollo capsule was. And yes, they hit the top of the atmosphere going twenty five thousand miles an hour and over the course of thirteen minutes
slow down to about twenty miles an hour. That should be their hit velocity, you know under the under parachutes, going nice and slow coming down unto the Pacific and other number I love is the heat shield gets to be about the temperature of the surface of the Sun, about five thousand degrees fahrenheit.
That's really hot.
And so this is one of the biggest challenges of spaceflight is our atmosphere is great to help us slow down, but it heats the heck out of everything. So we've got to make sure those heat shields work. And I think the work between lockeed Martin and NASA and probably subject matter experts even beyond those organizations have really contributed to the confidence that we have going in to today's re entry.
But we'll still all be on pins and needles.
I mean, and the confidence has been built over the last nine days or so. This mission we don't want to touch on all the word here at the moment, but has been remarkably successful.
It has.
And look, we will celebrate like crazy once the astronauts are back on Earth and then we can really breathe and take that moment to celebrate what an extraordinary accomplishment here in the year of the two hundred and fiftieth birthday of our country, to once again inspire the nation and really the world with great science. You know, their flyby of the moon was as a scientist that made
my heart go pitter pattern. And also all of the data and information that we've gained about Orion and how it works and whether there are things will need to tweak before future missions. A lot of that data is resident on the capsule itself, in the brains of the astronauts. All of that will get downloaded once they're back on her.
And then push us forward to Artemis three then.
Right, so, and it's going to go fast. Now, this is what I love. You know, I was involved in this program back at the very beginning, back in twenty eleven when the very first Ryan Capsule came off, the you know, was being built and the SLS was born essentially, and now it's taken us a long time to be flying humans back into deep space with these two fabulous with the rocket and the spacecraft.
But now it's going to go faster.
So Artemis three we hope to launch in next year, So I expect you're going to hear very soon an announcement of crew more specifics about the mission, which we've changed the mission profile from what was expected previously in order in part to accelerate this and hopefully accelerate getting boots on the Moon, which we hope will happen in twenty twenty eight.
On Artemis four.
You're back in academia. What does these moments? I mean, I just think about my kids coming home from school to every day at the moment, with various art projects and things that have been doing around artemist too. What is it done in terms of inspiring those that are studying under you, those that are now going to study under you.
I think it's a great moment.
The Apollo inspired and a generation around the world to pursue innovation, to pursue technology to ask hard questions and do things that we thought were impossible. I really hope we're going to have the same impact on this generation, the Artemis generation. And we're really seeing massive amounts of excitement and not only from you know, space geeks like us,
but from everybody that we talk to. And so it's a great moment of opportunity for us in this country to continue to drive STEM learning and innovation.
And Jared Eisiman, of course the administrator. How important has.
NASA's focus been on this to be bold? But also what about the money and what more is needed right now from the government.
Right I do think Jared has been a real breath of fresh air coming in and trying to drive the age and see to move faster, but do so smartly. I also know that he understands, based on personal experience, the risks involved in human spaceflight and so we're going to fly when we're ready, but we need to start moving things out of the way. When I was director of JPL, I had this group I called the snowplow team, which is can we get stuff out of the way for the technical folks who are trying to get us
further faster and get things done. We've got to be the people that clear out that clutter. And I know that he's really committed to that, and it's great because NASA needs that. It's become a bit bureaucratic, and it's great to have that breath of fresh air.
And Jared Mangio, Tenna, you are launching several new NASA missions.
Lorie Leshen, it's always so great to have you on. Thank you so much.
Former director of NASA Jet Propulsion Lab, currently the Professor of Space Futures at Arizona State University. Now coming up all it's permanently closing it's first unionized store in the United States one.
The next is a brute big tech time now for.
Talking tech and first s up shares of China's share Tronic data they plummeted twenty percent, swallowing US charges against super Micro co founder for allegedly smuggling in video chips. The company denies a relationship with super Micro, but records shows share Tronic procured ninety two million dollars worth of in video H one hundred and h two hundred processes, which have been banned from sale to and within China.
While in video backed Lamentums said demand from the biggest US tech companies for its optical components is accelerating and would be sold out through all of twenty twenty eight later this year. The company is investing at least one hundred million dollars to expand it specialized factories in Japan, and the stock is up fifteen hundred percent over last year as investors bet on photonics as the essential plumbing
for the next generation of AI data centers. We While Apple is shutting its first unionized retail store in the United States in June, citing declining conditions at the mall, The company said it in a statement that the employee can apply for open roles at Apple in accordance with the collect to bargaining agreement. Union representing tousand employees called the move union busting, saying Apple's claim about the agreement.
Is quote simply false.
Let's stick into that, I mean most Josh Eidelson is here with more on their story. So is it that the mall isn't performing well? Or is it that this was the one rare case of unionization.
Well, this tees up what is likely to be a year's long legal battle potentially over that question whether this
was illegal retaliation or simply a business decision. It's not inherently illegal for a company to shut down a unionized location, but it is illegal for a company to retaliate against workers for organizing by shutting down, and across various industries, it is often one of the biggest fears workers have about unionizing is that it could lead the company to retaliate by shutting down their business.
How would evidence be weighed here? I mean several retailers we know, creating Barrel Banana Republic have pulled back from that particular mall, but then non electronics sellers as well, And so what is it that you've tended to see come forward in these years long battles?
The US Labor Board, when it conducts an investigation, talks to various witnesses, looks at documents. Sometimes there are internal communications that come up that influence the decision whether to issue a complaint. Then the case proceeds through many steps after that that can end up in federal appeals court.
The union will point out, as they have that apple, they say is not letting the union members that are losing their jobs get the same right to transfer to other jobs that workers at the other two stores being closed down are getting, and the union argues that shows the animus against the union here.
In the meantime, though, this up.
Ends one of the few footholds that organized labor had at Apple and have a chilling effect on organizing elsewhere, regardless of what happens with a potential legal case.
The International Association of Mechanists and Aerospace Workers, how do they think Apple will unionize ever again or not?
Briefly Well, they're arguing that they will put pressure on the company, including looking to elected officials. We've seen sometimes these fights become as much about a company's brand and reputation as about the day to day profit of the company, and unions look for whatever leverage they can to push back in these situations.
Josh, it's great to have you here live to talk through the story. Most Josh Idols in there Now. That does it for this edition of Bloomberg Tech. Do not forget to check out the podcast. Find it on the terminal as well as online on Apple, Spotify, and iHeart from New York. Happy weekend. This is Bloomberg Tech