Volatile Markets and The Future of E-Commerce

lie ahead. We'll speak with Shopify president Harley Finkel signed about how it's all impacting consumers and where the company is placing its bets when it comes to the future of e commerce. Plus, Slack unveils a slew of new features for a hybrid work world. CEO Stewart Butterfield has been building companies since before the dot com boom and bust, will join us. We'll also get his view on the market meltdown, and Jeffrey Katzenberg joins to talk about the

future of entertainment and disrupting a legacy industries. Plus we'll get his thoughts on what's happening at Netflix and Disney. All of that in a moment, But first I want to look at the markets with our very own ed ludlow Ed walk us through the day, and obviously everyone

listening to those comments from FED charity plat power. Yeah, so like all eyes on the FED and exuty markets a little bit softer, were down by less than two tents of percent both on the SP five hundred and the NASDAT one hundred, and nothing really changed in terms of what Fed Powell said on the outlook for rates. The conversation is around whether they can deliver a so called soft landing, in other words, fight inflation without causing recession,

the quote being it will be extremely challenging. You see tech Heavyn has that one index down by two tents of a percent ish snapping two day rally, a short lived rally, yields coming down by twelve basis points on the tenure, and Bitcoin below twenty thousand dollars kind of caught up in the move with equities in the risk of environment. But you know how I like to do it.

Let's take a step back, Let's look at the last few days of trading and look at this in the context of what we've seen in markets recently, especially on the NAZAC one. When you think about all of the news of the last seven days, we started with that FED meeting a week ago where we got a clearer picture at the outlook for rates. We're going to be at three point two five three and a half percent

on interest rates by the end of this year. We're kind of trading sideways, and then today the market not really making its mind up. Has anything materially changed, was anything actually that new in what fed pal said throughout the session, what I'm hearing the markets is that really know. But we swung between gains and losses. At one point in the session, you saw big tech up quite highly. There were some really interesting movers though that we can

talk about in a minute. And the one thing I would say is that we're thinking clearly about recession risk, and the conversation is not necessarily if there's a recession, it's about when there's a recession. Indeed, and obviously there's a lot of big tech news that's having some of these moves. I'm thinking about Amazon, yeah, exactly. And you know, partly what we're looking at as well in the news flow is that all of these stocks are trying to

take trading in lockstep. So you look at my board, Tesla down four tents of one percent at one point, it's been one of the biggest drivers pushing the index higher. Amazon up by a quarter of percentage point, Netflix up four point seven percent in the session, there was actual news with it when it came to Netflix, so the Wall Street Journal reporting that they are now considering a

tier of subscription that is AD supportive. We know that that's something they discussed that their most recent earnings as an idea, But according to this report, they are talking to partners like Google and Comcast in partnerships on ADS. I'll Trier down nine percent very quick according to a Dow Jones report that regulators considering pulling the dual product in which our Trier has a stake completely from the

US market. How long has it been since you and I discussed toll It went from the impact on children flavored products with jewels, now reports of it being pulled from the US market asgethering that having a really material impact on our Trier shares this Wednesday. All right, thank

you for the round up. Well. Retail and e commerce companies have been under pressure in the midst of rising inflation and market turmoil, but Shopify shares took a leg up today after a slew of announcements targeted at the changing nature of consumers. I want to talk about all this and more with Harley Figglstein, President of Shopify. Harley, we've got a lot of news to get to, a lot of announcements that you made, and we'll talk about that, but first I want to get your your sense of

what is happening with the economy. Shopify hasn't necessarily been spared here, but what's your feeling about just how bad this will get and if a recession is inevitable? Thanks for having Emily, always a great pleasure being your show. Two things. Let's first talk about the retail outlook and I think consumer sentiment. What we are seeing is that there's certainly some some retail rebounds happening in areas like in person retail UM and we are well positioned there.

I mentioned on the earnings called last quarter that we saw physical retail gym V up by nearly eighty percent year on year UM and then when we add things like you know we one of the announcements today was local inventory sync on Google and tapped to pay, we really are well positioned to ensure that if physical retail is rebalancing and reopens that shopbly merchants can also use

that as well. But one of the things we're seeing from a sort of a macro perspective is that consumers are very much still voting with their dollars to support independent brands. This is something we saw happen very quickly and and and intensely during the pandemic. They are looking for quality products and certainly a lot of the shop

by merchants are doing well there. In terms of the economy in general, it's clear that obviously inflation is at a record level, but to the degree in which merchants wallets are stretched from higher prices. What they're beginning to do is they're looking to get more value out of every single dollar. And what we're seeing is that more merchants are coming out to shopify and they're taking more of our products, whether it's capital or payments or fulfillment.

They're leveraging our mass economies of scale while still keeping an independent business. So um we we we think both those things lead to a lot of optimism on our side. And of course Shopify Editions was launched today. Right you are making this big shift from DTC to C to see, as you call it, direct to consumer to connect to consumer, What does that mean and why do you think that's

the future. So this idea of shopla editions, which we announced this morning, UH burned night nine am, it introduces what we're calling the connect to consumer error of commerce, and part of it is that you know the speed of innovation and the depths and breadth of what Shopify is building. I celebrated my my twelfth year anniversary last week at Shopify, so I've been around for a third of my life. Thank you. Uh. The amount of products that we're shipping right now is is stronger than than

ever before. We unveiled more than a hundred new product updates and launches today and I think we are moving faster than ever and shoplay additions is our way of sharing that momentum with the world now. I think you know if you've I've been on the show a lot of talking about direct to consumer, which really was about this one to one connection with the brand to the consumer, but it was very transactional. What we are noticing is that more and more consumers want to connect with these

brands online on social media. They want to attend an a vent or their store, they want to have more of an emotional connection, whereby they can connect with brands across a whole bunch of different surface areas. And so commerce is really just not about the transaction. It's much deeper. And we think SEE two SEE really places more authenticity and loyalty and trust at the heart of every single

merchant interaction. And uh, and so a lot of the products you saw today is really about us ushering in this new model for commerce. You're also striking a big partnership with Twitter to help businesses reach buyers there. And I just wonder why now on Twitter is facing all of this uncertainty about whether Elon Musks buys the company or not, and if this partnership will hold up in a new regime. We think the future of retail is

going to be retail everywhere. It's going to be online and offline, on social media, it's going to be in person at at farmers markets, at events and concerts. We really are you know, I think we started as being an e commerce company, and you know, about ten percent of all e commerce in the US now flow through Shopify. If we were one single aggregated story would be the

second largest online store in America. But the key here is that commerce in the future will happen everywhere, and so we we've announced I'd come on the show and talked about our integrations with Google and Facebook and Instagram and TikTok to embed commerce there. And then the newest one that we're embedding, the newest partner we're betting commerce with is Twitter. Now. Twitter is an interesting one. Of

course they're in the news a lot lately. But you know, if you think about where commerce used to happen, it was always sort of around the town square where the baker sold bread and cobber so old shoes. Twitter in some ways is the modern day digital town square, and so embedding commerce right into Twitter so you can turn conversation into commerce, all powered by Shopify. We think it's a really great thing. And whether or not, you know, they have a new owner in the future or not,

I think commerce will play a role in Twitter future. Okay, I recently interviewed Amazon CEO Andy Jase Harley, and I'm not sure if you caught this, but what I asked about Amazon's relationship with third party sellers and the tension that has existed there between Amazon and some third party sellers, he took kind of a dig at Shopify. Take a listen to what he had to say. Sellers don't really wrong for commerce software that exists in lots of places,

and uh, and it's not very expensive. What they love about selling on Amazon is that they get access to our hundreds of millions of customers and that completely changes what their prospects can be in terms of the business as they're building. What's your response to that, I think that, uh, it is quite clear that the future of retail is going to have direct connection between brands and the consumers. Look, I mean, obviously, a place like Amazon allows third party

sellers to access a very large network of consumers. But if you look at any of these marketplaces, you, as a merchant, you're not building your own business. You are effectively renting customers from the marketplace. And I think for some merchants that matters. But for a lot of merchants, you think about your favorite brands or Mine, James Purse or the Albert Shooes, I'm wearing bombas socks and wearing they want to have a direct relationship with the people

that are buying their their products. And I think that more and more you see consumers again choosing to go direct whenever possible. So I think there's a place for marketplaces, and obviously Amazon has done a great, great, great thing there and and it's very valuable in that way. But I think consumers also want to have a direct relationship

with the brands they're buying from. And that's the reason why you see companies like Mattel and Craola and Herman Miller and Proctor and Gamble you Shopify to go direct to consumer. These are brands that traditionally never did so, and now they're doing that now, Harley, you know, Shopify shares have taken a pretty big dive since November where they hit a hit a high point, and obviously we're in the middle of a broader market turmoil. But how

concerned are you about this and going forward? You know, how are you thinking about this? What are investors missing? I think Shopify was certainly a pandemic story, and I think, obviously you know this, the stock reflected them. I think, what what a lot of people are missing? But the Shopify stories that on one hand, we're ten percent of all e commerce the ums, we have massive scale. At the same time, those economy scille that come with it. At the same time, the two million stores on Shopify

have an independent business at the same time. That happens every thirty seconds or so a brand new entrepreneur gets their first sale on Shopify. That means we are not only getting a larger piece of the pie, we're growing the pie itself. And all those stores that end up in businesses that are being really successful will stay on

Shopify indefinitely. And that's why you see companies like Figs and All Birds go public and and Jim Shark and all these amazing brands that were built at their mom's kitchen table that are our category leaders built on Shopify. I also want to ask about you'll go go ahead finish your I was gonna say in terms of so, I think we were a pandemic story. I think what

what often people misses? Were also this reopening story again, eighty percent of our eight we had eighty percent growth in point of sale gym V. We have thousands of stores all over the world that you shop lay a power their physical store. You know, we saw social embedded commerce on services like Instagram and TikTok and now Twitter grow almost four percent year on year last quarter. So Shopify is really more than just spinnay commerce provider or

or a pandemic story. We really are the world's retail operating system. And again, look at every one of your favorite brands or anyone listening look at your favorite brands. You will start seeing shop pay as the payment game. But you will start seeing Shopify power those brands. That's really important to us, and that's the reason why I think our future is very brave. I also want to ask about your evolving governance story. Shopify recently made some

changes to enhance Toby lucka of the CEOs power. Some shareholders did oppose these changes. What are you hearing from from shareholders now, you know, in terms of concerns about this change, and what has been Shopify as response. I've spent the last few weeks with uh some of our our largest investors, and and and frankly a lot of investors generally, and I think um one, you know, we're grateful for their trust and coetin to run the business.

But the goal here really was modernizing our government structure. We want to be a hundred your company. We're about sixteen years sixteen years into it, so we've got a lot more time. Eighty four years left to go, and we want to ensure that we can run our business and make really good long term decisions for investors, for merchants, for for every stakeholder that's involved with Shopify, and we think this monetization, particularly around the government structure, allows us

to do that. I'll also tell you, having spent so much time with investors lately, that some of these investors that have been with us for the last seven years since the I p O, and they believe more in shop Plain now than ever before. And we're grateful for that. But we got a lot of room to grow and and we have a lot of new opportunities in front of us. All right, Harley Finkelston. Always appreciate you joining us, Thanks for taking a wide range of questions today. Appreciate

it happening in New York right now. Slack Frontiers the company's annual conference where they've unveiled the latest innovations to a product that's become integral to the hybrid workplace. Joining us now. Stuart Butterfield, Slack co founder and CEO, joining

us from our studios in New York, Stewart. Great to have you back with us, and thanks for coming in among the many announcements today, you're building out Slack huddles, adding this new video feature, and I'm curious, with video conferencing a very crowded market, what's the unique niche that you hope Slacks offering will fill. Yeah, thank you, Emily. It's um it's a little bit different than than a

video call. So huddles, for those of you who are not familiar, used by tens of millions of people a week on Slack, and up till now, they've been audio only, and the intention is a little bit different than like a call that has a scheduled start time and end time. They're more for serendipitous, spontaneous conversations and they've been really valuable in that respect, fastest growing feature and Slacks history.

People love it. UM. So we're adding a little bit more of a coworking space, and I think there's a difference between on the one hand meetings and the other hand, people working together and helping to use computers at the same time. We're definitely on the far left edge of that spectrum. And I think that I, like all of the people in the audience, will be on many many more video calls years. Show now but I think there's also like a whole set of tools that kind of

became obvious that they're desirable during the pandemic. But we're just starting to see some of them now. Some of them will come from Slack, some of them will come from others. It's actually a pretty exciting time and enterprise software,

insofar as enterprise software can be exciting at all. Indeed, of course, you know there's competition here from Zoom and Google Meet and Microsoft Teams and just go WebEx And in the same way that you're kind of moving on to let's say, zooms turf a little bit, you've got Zoom announcing some chat features. Are you at all concerned about them taking Slack market share? No, not at all. And to be clear, we at Black are a happy Zoom customer, and I don't expect that to go anywhere.

There just is a lot of use cases that that aren't covered by the thirty minute video call. There's also a huge amount of stuff that Zoom does that I don't think Slack will ever do, and also vice versa. But um, we're at this moment where it really feels like I'm personally as optimistic as I ever have been in the last twenty years. It really feels like there's an opportunity to create a couple of brand new categories.

In the same way that everyone has the standard set of email and calendar and word processor and spreadsheet, there's a couple more slots there that the pandemic made clear. We're really important, and so we're excited to spend a lot of time experimenting there and uh and releasing new stuff. Now you don't have to worry about this as much now that slack is part of salesforce. And I wonder, actually if there's some relief that you actually don't have

to worry about the market meltdown. But you've been building companies for more than twenty years, you live through the dot com boom and bust. What's your take on what's happening with the economy right now? If Elon Musk has a super bad feeling about it, how does Stupent Butterfield feel? Well? Uh, So,

I'm from pretty old at this point. I graduated from post school in ninety one, so I worked through the recession, right through the dot com crash, that whole roller coaster two thousand and eight of course as well, and a couple of other littler ones. UM. I don't want to suggest that there's no dislocation and there's no like immediate negative impact for a lot of people, um in the short term. But at the market level, I see this um kind of working itself out over. Maybe it's six

months if we're super super lucky, maybe if it's eighteen months. Um, if it's a little bit more realistic. But we do come up the other side, and so many great companies, including it slock. We're started. You know, there's company that became slock started at two thousand and nine, kind of right in the in the absolute bottom part of the trough. UM. So I think there's also a lot more opportunity now. Interesting. UM, So how do you think Silicon valid looks different after this?

I mean, if it's not a major dislocation, is it just a sort of evolution. Yeah, I mean, so if we're talking about like just stock prices and big multiples have come down to a pretty realistic level now, and so now we'll see if people can deliver the earnings that are expected, will kind of stay in the same box for a while. UM. The bigger question is whether that whether you imagine a recession that would really impact this.

But I think something else is going on at the same time, which is we've really realized, uh, the importance of all the digital infrastructure that supports productivity and collaboration, and just to make that like a little bit more

tangible for people. If you go back to March and imagine that a parallel universe where you could keep traveling for work and use conference rooms and commune, go to the office, all of that stuff, but you took away the software, all of these companies would have just disintegrated in like twenty four hours. So at some point in the last twenty years, we switched from a world where the physical HQ is more important than the digital to

the other way around. And yes, we use digital h Q as a marketing term, but I just mean obviously all of these companies continue to exist, and when that happens, I think there's a lot more interest in investment. You know.

The worst case scenario is a is a chief information officer who've used technology as like HVACT for the building, like you're just trying to get it as cheap as possible as opposed to an investment in the organization's overall effectiveness and the ladder case is really what we're seeing

with customers now. Flat is becoming more and more integral to all kinds of workforces and has been in the news recently because the January six Committee has asked Twitter for Slack messages tied to their decision to ban former President Trump, etcetera. I'm so curious for your thoughts on this.

If Slack has been subpoena and I know Twitter has refused to hand this misinformation over, and if you were subpoena, if Slack would comply, UM, I gotta be honest now at this point, I have no idea if we've been subpoena. I don't think so. UM. You know, obviously we have a range of customers. In fact that when I'm a softball opportunity to mention. We also announced gov Slack today, the fed ramp high version of Slack used by like

Lockheed Martin and the U. S. Army software factory. Um. But there's a lot of different compliance requirements and message retention rules and stuff like that, and I think that the investigations are generally gonna be of Slacks customers, not of Slack that was gonna be my next question. Your effort to attract more government agency. How exactly do you intend to do that? How do you plan to handle

some of these very sticky issues like privacy. Yeah, well, we have government customers in twenty different countries, and some of those have been long established. I think there's about thirteen US federal agencies using slack, but there's also state, local, municipal usage. There's usage in UM in Australia and the UK,

in Japan and France, in Germany and UM. The kind of benefit that slack brings to petty organization that uses it are are obviously there for the government as well, and I think we would be an opportunity to create a little bit more of a fabric that goes through the whole federal government because those agencies are pretty autonomous UM and it's much much harder, kind of notoriously harder for them to coordinate that it should be, all right, Uh,

Slack CEO Stewart Butterfield. Always good to have you on the show. Thanks for checking out to our New York studios. Appreciate stuff. Elon Musk says Tesla's new plans in Germany and Texas are losing billions of dollars as the ev maker tries to ramp up production. In a video just posted online that was taped three weeks ago, the Tesla's CEOs comments offer new insight into the day's leading up to his decision to cut costs by laying off employees.

The staff reductions will affect about ten percent of Tesla's salaried workforce over the next three months. Coming up, we are going to head to Toronto for a conversation with Jeffrey Katzenberg fresh off a panel at the Collision conference about disrupting legacy industry, something he knows a thing or two about. Plus will get his thoughts on the current economic climate and where he's putting his money these days and a company he's invested in. That's all coming up next.

This is Bloomberg. Welcome back to Bloomber Technology and Emily Chain in San Francisco. It was a choppy day for tech stocks as the market tried to make up its mind on the fed and risks of recession. Where do

we land bloom Brooks lad Low back to unwind it all. Yeah, so we're like modestly lower right across multiple industries, especially tech indusseries look at then as that one hundred off by around two tents and one percent outside selling and semi conductors chip stock some of the worst performers and biggest tracks and drags on both the SMP five hundred, and then as that one hundred yours cd MC fan PUSS Index, which is made up of those mega cats

and some US listed shares of Chinese tech companies modestly lower, but they've been higher during the session. We kind of swung between games and losses. The market trying to make up its mind about the Fed's ability to fight in relation without causing recession. Don't take my word for it. Have a listen to FED chair j Power. It is

our goal. It is going to be very challenging. It has been made significantly more challenging by the events of the last few months, thinking they're of the war and you know, command of these prices and further problems with supply chains, and the question whether we're able to to to accomplish that is going to depend to some extent on factors that we don't control. So the market kind of sees you on the idea this is the biggest admission so far that there's a real risk of hard

landing or recession. We had a lot of other things to say, right the labor market still incredibly tight, the economy still incredibly robust. You because some of the tech movers really interesting, especially in regards to news CYD. We look at Amazon and up a quarter of a percent news out of a leaked memo where Amazon is talking about the turnover in its workforce, for example, being very

high relative to other industries, it being a real concern. Well, what happens to that labor market as we moved towards a FED that's fighting inflation, not just with interest rates, with the shrinking of its balancy and the other name that just catches my eye with regards to the demand story, because according to fed Pale, the demand is still their Netflix up four point according to reports from Wall Street Journal considering an ad tear for one of its subscription models,

basically add support in conjunction with names like Google comcasts. You have some interesting guests coming up, but kind of be interested in their take about Netflix. One of the worst performers year today wasn't really participating in the rally of recent days, but having a great day on Wednesday, all right, interesting to say the least. Thank you, and well.

Despite fears that the US is heading towards a recession as inflation drives up costs and some companies start layoffs, there was a more up ink tone at this year's Collision conference, where thirty five thousand people showed up to

hear about the future of technology. Joining me out from Toronto, Jeffrey Katzenberg, founding partner at Wonder COO and former chair of Disney, also see of dream Works of course, along with Harry rabat Chande, and he is the founder and CEO of our and online cybersecurity firm and one of Katzenberg's investments. UM, Jeffrey, Harry, thank you both for joining us. I know you've just been on stage talking about disrupting legacy industries, and Jeffrey, this is of course something you

know a thing or two about. So tapping you as an investor first, given everything you've seen, everything you've tried to do, what industries do you see right now that are most right for disruption? Well, whether it's right for disruption or not, I think that the place of opportunity today that we're quite focused on continue to be is on cyber security, both for enterprise and for the consumer. UM. I think it will UH have faced less headwinds and

a UH down recession economy than many industries. UM also think that future of work continues to be a place of great opportunity. The disruption out of uh COVID has been extreme in terms of the workforce and the tools that it needs today in terms of productivity of collaborating, sharing, the moving of information and people, I think is going to be a place of tremendous innovation over these next couple of years. So there are bright slots, but no

question we're in for choppy times. Interesting, Harry, you know there's an actually huge number of cybersecurity unicorns out there right now, and especially you know many companies with which raised at HAFT evaluations when times were good. How do you think Aura stands out on that list? Look away, So this is my second go around building a business UH. The first time we went through the down cycle in

two thousand, two thousand one. Again to know seven a week and you learn a lot of usins having been through the cycles. So this time around, we're very focused on keeping the fixed for the fixed cost of our business low, looking for opportunities where there's availability for asymmetric risk reward payouts, whether it's M and A, organic growth vectors, etcetera.

But keeping the core of our business quite tight and making sure that we're mindful of cost of burn and having raised a lot of capital last year, we're well set up. So it's it's it's really something that we have to stay focused to make sure we're creating a lot of runway and continue to keep focusing on our product. Yeah. And the other thing, Emily, is is it or is

a mature business. It's got two million customers, almost three million of revenue, It's a profitable business um and um, and a fair amount of wind in its sales right now in terms of its growth. So this is growth, but it's profitable growth. I think that sort of makes it, you know, in a slightly unique category right now. So, Jeffrey, I mean, given that you've also seen a number of downturns, run companies through downturns, how pronounced do you think this

one in particular is going to be? Is this a recession with a big R or a little R? Is it inevitable? You know what? I'm you just went way above my pay grade family, and uh, you know, I just have to say, you know, I think and this is what I admire so much about Harri and how he's running his business. You plan for the worst and you hope for the best. And what I mean by that is is that you know, he really has buttoned down his business. He's running it, you know, on a

smart basis, on a profitable basis. But this is also a time of great opportunity and there are going to be things for us to do, whether it's an M and a um uh, you know, direct to consumer. You know, the ad markets probably going to become more favorable, so there there are You've got to be able to play offense and defense, you know, at this at the same time, you need an offensive team and a defensive team. And that's what I think Harris built well for this for

this company. Well, speaking of offense and defense, in part the promise of cybersecurity is you know, the the the ability to play really good defense. And we've been warned so many times about the threat from Russia in the midst of this ongoing war on Ukraine. Are how big are the threats out there on the cyber landscape and how do you see that threat evolving as we go through this, you know, potentially pronounced economic crisis for six eighteen months or longer. I mean, I think it started

with COVID. As people are moving more and more online, a lot more data started moving online as well. And you know, whether you're looking at should nation state and nation state attacks or you're looking at attack on enterprises. The interesting thing we see is some of those who are prevalent, they're getting a lot more sophisticated. But the new thing that we're starting to see is there's an acceleration of the sophistication of attacks on families and consumers.

So it's going all the way from nation to nation to enterprise and consumers and family. Um. You know, I do think that over the next come twelve to eighteen months, the trend doesn't seem to be slowing down. From what we can see, there's some new variant of a different kind of an attack happening every week. UM, and you know, UH criminals seem to be enjoying their work and UH showing showing that. An interesting statistic is is that in the last twelve months, the amount of theft UH digital

theft versus burglary has actually now surpassed it. So there's actually more criminal activity theft going on against all of us as consumers on our digital footprint, then in our homes and our apartments and around our physical goods, and that trend is actually accelerating. So that value right now is I think in terms of what or is solving for? Is you know, really really strong and only going to

get stronger? Jeffrey, I have to ask, given of course, what you saw with Quimby and your long history and the entertainment business, what is your thought on the collapse? And I'm like, can I congratulate you? Sure? Can I congratulate you on that. It took you, It took you eight and a half minutes to say the word Quimby out loud. So thank you. You you got you got the over. You got the over, not the under. But

go for it. Yes, I'm sorry, it is not the only thing you're going to be remembered for if I have anything to say about it. But I do want to know what you think about what's happening in streaming right now. The collapse in Netflix is stopped, you know, have we hit a peak? And is it all downhill from here? No? Here's what I would say. You know, truly, one of the great entrepreneurs of our time is Read Hastings. You know, everybody were naysayers a decade ago when he

came along with this idea streaming. They were all nay sayers when he came along with this idea for you know, binging of content. You know, there's so many things that you know, popular opinion were contrary to him and his vision for that company. He's built a great company. There's no question that you know it is actually you know, hit some rough patch for sure. But the last thing I would do right now today is bet on Reid

Hassin's being down, let alone out. So you asked me, do I think, you know, what is the future of streaming. The future streaming is going to be strong, likely more consolidation. So there's a lot more competition today. There's a lot more offerings out there today, more than all of us can consume. And so with that they're going to be winners and losers. Do I think Netflix is going to be in the winter column for sure? Is it going

to see seven dollars a share? Soon? Probably? Not. I wonder if you think Disney and CEO Bob J. Pecker and the winner column. You I mean, obviously the long history there. Um, you know we've seen, you know, some some tumult in the executive suite. You know what a succession look like there, and how does Disney fit into the future of the entertainment business. Disney will also be

in that wind column. You know, if you had to pick today, you would say Apple, Amazon, Netflix, Disney, Warner Discovery. They're all going to in some fashion, shape or form being the wind column. You know, once again, you know Shapik has a complicated hand to play. Um. You know, uh, probably no company had more of its businesses adversely affected by COVID. I mean literally Broadway shutdown, theaters shut down, theme park shutdown, cruise ship shutdown. Do I have to

keep going? And you know he's trying to navigate now, you know, sort of the next renaissance of Disney. It's a bar, it's a big challenge. My guess is he's up to it. Jeffrey, I appreciate you humoring us and putting on your entertainment legend hat uh as well as your investor hat. Jeffrey Katzenberg. Wonderco Ari Rabit Chondren of our coming to us from the Collision conference in Toronto.

Thank you both. Time now for our crypto report. Bitcoin trading once again around the twenty dollar level, moving in tandem with falling stocks. This is concerns about a global recession grow and while some crypto companies are laying people off, others are more optimistic even about the near future. I want to talk about all this and more with Bloomberg's own Hannah Miller Hannah falcon X raising a big round today. How in the midst of a very are you called

the crypto winter? Yeah, I know. It's an exciting company that's now valued at eight billion dollars, up from a three point seven five billion dollar valuation from its last fundraise. And this is a company that is has a lot of interesting stuff about it. Its founder Um has a really impressive background. It was formed was formerly at Google um and this funding round came together in the past

few weeks even as market conditions were changing. Uh So it's super exciting, especially when you see other companies like block By looking to raise a down valuations. Well, we're back to twenty dollars for bitcoin, But the CEO of Binance says the worst part is probably over, is he right? I think cz is being a bit optimistic here. Um, there's still a lot of fragility in the market. We

could see trouble for other lending platforms. We've already seen Celsius and Babble hit um, and there's still a lot of uncertainty revolving around regulation and also purity. You know, hacks and scams have just been a lingering problem for the crypto industry. We've seen layoffs at coin Base, layoffs at robin Hood. You know, when you're talking to your sources, talking to your companies, just how bit bad is it or how bad does it feel on the inside of

some of these organizations. Yeah. So I've been told by multiple people to expect more layoffs in the future, that this is going to be a trend after a rash of over hiring last year. And basically people believe that this crypto winter is going to last for another six months to hear, but that it will be shorter than the previous one because we have clearer uses for blockchain now.

I'm thinking decentralized finance, gaming and n f T s that will help people stay interested in crypto and blockchain. All right, well, Hannah will continue to follow your reporting on all of this. Bloomberg's Hannah Miller, thanks so much. Coming up Apple's first union and what it means for a potential wave of tech unions across the country. Talk about that next. This is Bloomberg. Big tech has long been hostile to organize labor, but as of late, there

have been some serious moves to change that. This past weekend, employees at a Maryland Apple store voted to thirty three to unionize. The move creates the first union of Apple retail employees in the United States. And running the campaign and Towson was the International Association of Machinists. David Telivian Eastern Territory General vice president, joins us now to talk about this big win. And David, the votes we've seen at some of the Amazon warehouses have been a lot closer.

Why do you think Apple employees voted here almost two to one. We're we're very pleased with the outcome of this. The workers in Maryland were are very excited. They were very involved in this whole process. They came to us because of our presence in the community, and uh we spent a lot of time with them over the long period of time talking to them who we are, what we do, and they were just very very excited about having the opportunity, uh to organize and have a say

in the future. Now, Apple hasn't responded to this union vote directly, but in the past, as as news about the forming of a possible union broke, they did tout their benefits. They've touted, uh, what these workers are paid. Do you think this vote in Maryland will result in more unions being formed at Apple across the United States? I do. We've received many, many phone calls from across the country from coast to coast right now, and uh,

it's the out The outpour has been very good. It's it's definitely a wave and we're we're very pleased with that. Workers had to put a lot on the line down in Maryland to stand up and and have a say in the future. And we're hoping that other workers in Apple see that they were able to do it. They didn't buy into some of the anti union rhetoric that was out there that the machines union we do a lot of good things. These are very highly skilled employees

and uh, we're a very highly skilled union. So We're very pleased that they were able to hold tight, hold strong. And when they walked out that door and you heard the screams, that was the sound we want to hear across this entire state, I mean country. How Apple have to deal with the unions, like what kind of discussions and agreements will have to be had. Um. Typically, what we'll do is we'll try to do a meeting Greek, we will send the letter. We're gonna be certified. Hopefully

at the end of the week. Uh, it's usually about a seven day process. We should be certified without any issues. Once we're certified, I'll send a letter to Apple, to the CEO and request to meet with them, and then we'll start the process to collectively bargain a contract for the employees. And what will change for workers at unionized stores, everything, their whole world's gonna change. They'll have the ability to have a say in their future. Uh, they'll have a

voice on the job. Scheduling is a big thing for them. They love their job. They do a lot of great stuff and you know, they connect people to these products that you know, we can't figure them out. We go to these stores, we meet with them, highly technical highly skilled. They help us get our stuff together. You know, it's for them. I think that because they do love their job, they want to have more, saying like their schedule, just anything to do with their future working conditions, safety on

the job, they'll have, they'll have the ability to do that. Um. We're seeing a similar conversation happening at Amazon, and I actually spoke to Amazon CEO Andy Jassy about union efforts at Amazon warehouses. Take a quick listen to what he had to say. We happen to think they're better off without a union for a number of reasons, including the fact that you know, it's it's much harder when you have a union to have a direct relationship with your

manager and to get things done quickly. How would you respond to that, David, Yeah, I think that's silly, to be honest with you, just to be frank. Uh, for us, that the union is, it's the people there, the people on site, the employees at that store, they are the union. They keep trying to say it's a third party coming in and they're gonna not be able to be personal and have friendships. That's absolutely false, not true. Uh, the union is the people you know on site, there and

the relationships can continue. We have great relationships with many many companies that we work with, so I wouldn't expect anything different from a CEO from Amazon. How long does a union last for? Will this have to be renewed?

And is this going to be an ongoing fight even in in tosin whether or not it happens beyond no. What we'll do is we usually negotiate a contract, typically the three year contracts, but once once we're um officially, once it's officially certified, will be the bargaining agent for them and hopefully it goes forever. And last quick question. You know tech has so far been you know, fairly immune to these kind of union negotiations. How do you

imagine this could change the tech industry. We've got about thirty seconds left. I think it's gonna be a great change. I think that these are kind of the workforce that needs a union. They've been typically they're not a traditional you know what we would call a traditional union, so they've been kind of left behind on that. And now they're standing up saying they want more. Uh, they want to be able to negotiate over hours of work, working conditions,

all the things that a union does. So. I think it's gonna when when workers around the country, US and Canada see what we're doing, I think they're they're gonna step up and want to be part of this. I'm very excited. I don't I don't think it's going to slow down. I think it's gonna keep keep moving forward. All right, David Selivian, General vice president at the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace s Workers, thank you for

joining us. That does it for this edition of Bloomberg Technology. We're back tomorrow with cloud Flair CEO Matthew Prince Proton Mail CEO Andy En to talk big tech privacy. You don't want to miss it. This is Bloomberg