Tesla Drops and SBF Pleads Not Guilty

trial in October. The same day, the top US banking watchdogs send a warning about crypto activity and the slowdown in ad spending will continue to shake up Silicon Valley giants like Google and Meta. That's as Netflix and TikTok come into play. We bring you expert analysis. But first on this first day of three trading, editor is good to be back with you, and we talked about it all with Dana Hall, where Piece of Station joins us

to kick off this new year's show. These new glasses as well, whether we love them, but down people don't love the numbers that came out of Tesla. What is it four hundred, five thousand, two hundred seventy eight vehicles in the last three months. Why was that such a shock to the four hund and twenty that they promised, Well, you know, it's always about expectations. A beat is a beat, and a miss and a miss is a miss, and

this is a clear miss. I mean Elon Musk spent the last earnings call talking about Tesla is going to have this epic year end, and we saw on social media that Franz, the chief designer, was at the delivery center helping to hand over the car. So everyone was kind of expecting that the numbers would be pretty close to consensus, but they missed consensus by a mile, even the company's own the consensus. And you can't, you know, you just can't be that way when you're this kind

of a company. In the SNP five, I mean, people are expecting things to be better. The other thing is that over thirty or four thousand cars were quote unquote in transit, and so it's like Tesla is this big company now, and yet they still have this logistical problem in terms of getting cars into the hands of customers at the end of every quarter, third consecutive quarter of

missing delivery estimate this thing I'm right and saying. And then the other kind of thing that jumped out with me your story is that they didn't quite make that fifty percent average annual growth rate. A lot a lot of analysts of cut price tuggets. I mean, what is the picture now for Tesla going forward? In well, they report earnings later this month, and the big question is the hit too margins? So you know, they cut all these prices to try to make to try to make

the delivery target. That didn't work, So now there's gonna be a great hit to gross margins. And I think the big thing too is guidance, Like why didn't Tesla lower their guidance? You have Elon Musk selling shares of his stock in the company mid December when he clearly had a clear look at what demand was like for the quarter. So he unloads his stock. Everyone else is holding the bag. And then they missed by several units.

And so going into earnings, everyone's cutting their targets and everyone wants more conservative guidance for the going You're going forward, all right, Bloomberg's Dona Hole, Thank you very much. Want to continue the conversation is stick with Tesla with all convests.

Chief futurist Brett Winton. Brett, we'll get into two arcs long term call around Tesla shortly, but just first your reaction to the fourth quarter of deliveries miss and as we were discussing with Dane of the third consecutive miss for deliveries for Tesla, I think it's ironic that you qualified as a miss when a company delivers year in

your growth against an auto market that's declining. Eight. I think it's very clear from our perspective that electric vehicles are going to become the dominant drive trains um for um for automotive over the next five years. And we think there'll be sixty million evs sold in and Tesla will take a plurality of that. Uh, and so they have a huge tail wind behind them. Uh. You know, equities are priced on the basis of future expectations of

cash flow, not the quarterly delivery results. And so I expected over the you know, long term, this will resolve and will be seen as just a blip in the company's trajectory. Right, you called it ironic. What I'm saying is that, you know, we need a yard stick, a benchmark by on which to go by. Right, it's three consecutive quarters of miss against consensus. But you also mentioned that and your growth Tesla set out once again in two hopes of reaching a fift annual average growth target.

They didn't hit that either. Do you expect them to hit it going forward? Yeah, Then whether or not they hit their growth target is a function of production, not demand. And so right now the market is talking a lot

about demand. I think it's probably um true that consumers are confused by the u S regulation and which evs will qualify and what mix and models will and so there is probably a demand kind of hiccup as people tried to assess and wait out kind of tax guidance for for getting money off the vehicle starting in the

new year. But ultimately it's a question of whether or not Tesla can scale production, and they've demonstrated over time that they can, and and I think that's the you know, we're making a huge transition from one drive train to another. Tesla is is at least three or four years ahead of the industry and driving that transition. And we believe they're going to continue to scale drive down costs of manufacture.

And and that's not a scenario where you end up with a problem on on even margins as as as Dana mentioned, who knows what the margins will look like this quarter. I think over time, the company has delivered an ability to expand gross margins and and operating margins as they have this incredible tailwind of demand for electric vehicles, which is the way in which we're going to ride around to us. Though about the competition, of course, you say that what ahead of it? But competition is coming,

and it's coming firstly bred sure. So Tesla released the Model three in sen and it basically took the industry four years before there was a range and cost competitive vehicle with the Model three. With that Model three, and their cars haven't stayed the same. In March, we think that Tesla's gonna announce a new vehicle platform and that the cost of manufacturer for that vehicle platform will be

roughly half the cost of the Model three. If you look at what happened when they released the Model three, they had a massive gross margin expansion and massive unit volume expansion over multiple years. I think the same thing is going to happen with the new vehicle platform they announced in March, and so they're gonna set the standard for the industry again. The industry will again be four or five years behind UH and for shareholder it's it's

a great outcome. Uh. You you end up with a company establishing a strategic footprint in in a massive, literally trillion dollar plus market UH and UH and and likely to dominate and soak up all of the profits out of that industry, as as the rest of the competitors struggle to catch up. Well, I mean, China's a slightly different UH market than than the US and Western markets.

I think that Tesla will remain at the higher end the Chinese market and UM and clearly they have a beneficial and synergistic relationship with the government in China, and that they're providing demand for the Chinese battery ecosystem and and releasing a product into the market that the Chinese domestics really enjoy and love. UH and that market is likely to be more competitive just because costom manufacturers so

much lower. There right, brett Arc has a sort of long term call on the stock hundred dollars per share, which you expect to materialize in six I asked Twitter users and our followers, our audience on the show kind of what they wanted to ask you. Many wanted to ask about that call if it's still is intact. But they also wanted to ask how much of it is reflective of the promise of full self driving away from

just the simple business of selling vehicles. Sure, so, just just a note that forty dollars to show that was pre stock split, so you have to make in a split for the stock split, for the for the for the UH. You know, current adjusted UH share price expectation, though our expectation hasn't um changed UH and in fact, we're going through the process of of updating our numbers right now, so keep an eye out for that as well as our overall EV forecast and and in our

Big Ideas report that will release later this month. UM the roughly a third of the value of the business is the EV manufacturing the business in our view, and two thirds of the value of the business is expectations for GROBOTAXI. And that's a really important consideration here. People act like, oh, this unit number in matters tremendously in in the the scheme and scope of of the business model. If they can deliver full self driving, that will transform

the company. You go from getting one time profitability from each asset sold to ongoing cash flow generation from every asset in field per annum. On a go forward basis, as these um individually owned vehicles that are used you know, five percent of the time and spend their time part turn into robotaxis that can take you know, five or ten people around in a day uh and and deliver ongoing returns to shareholders. So it will be a business value transformation if and as they deliver it, and the

evidence on the ground is they'll be able to. I mean, I use it every day. It makes driving safer less stressful. Uh and and I'm less tired after driving. It's a great product. And by the way, it improved yesterday while it was sitting in my driveway. The car I owned today is better than the car I owned yesterday. There's almost no other vehicle in the world you can say

that about. And so I think that the promise of that transformation to the business models is really extreme and you don't need to assume it's going to happen in order to underwrite a really material return for the company. Right. Well, certainly the bill case, we thanks for you for having new on and do come back with the updated numbers. It's the pragmatic case. I mean, like, let's be honest, this is a world class um product that people love and that makes them safer and gets them to and

from places faster and easier. Uh, and I don't expect it that that hasn't changed, and so we expected to continue of arc. We thank you, hands up, have a great start to twenty three. Thanks for coming on. All things tess are all things pragmatic, or some would say, in all case, what to expect from tech stocks? Of course, more broadly, next to you bull more generally, we're gonna be asking, ever core I s I Senior Imagine Director and head of Internet Research, Mark Mahaney, that's next is

a bloomberg. These take investors really haven't had to focus on business fundamentals for a long period of time. They've been writing this lower inflation rate cycle and riding the right you know, the rising in stock prices that come as a result of that. So tech investors are now actually having to do the work that we have been doing, you know, as active stock pickers our entire career. So that's why we think there's a lot of opportunity there,

But you really need to be stockpickers. Franklin Mutual Advisors portfolio manager Katrina Dudley. There was some tough love tech investors. As we entered this new year, let's continue the conversation with a man who does a lot of fundamental analysis, Mark Mahaney of ever Core. And it's great to start the year with you, Mark and talk to us about what was cautious and muted two now turns to constructive after a brutal last year. Mark, some of your best

ideas and one of them is Uber. It's interesting we just finished a conversation had on the heels of Tessa robotaxis. What fundamentally looks nice to you with Uber? Mark? Well, Caroline, thanks and happy new year to you. It's nice to see you again. The this last year wasn't terrible year. There was the worst performing year for stocks, especially for growth equities since two thousand and eight. So yeah, that

was that was very challenging. I'm going into this year we try to be tactically constructive, which means we're looking for companies that are somewhat recession resistant and I don't cover a defensive space, so somewhat recession resistant, maybe have new revenue streams and then have taken cost actions because you need to do that at demand is going to soften and that leads us to like to two stocks in particular. You mentioned one Uber, the others Netflix Uber.

I just think that the ride sharing part of the business is more for utility than a discretionary spend environment. We still need to commute, We still have our weekend outings, and we still have some airport trips, and leisure demand trends seem to be holding up very well. So I just think that that part of the business holds up well. Company has taken a lot of costs out it was

forced to, and it was probably to its own benefit. UH. And they've now turned a corner on free cash flow, and I think they'll be able to continue to grow free cash flow. So I think it's that as the story changes from a growth at all cost company to a im positive free cash flow company. I just think that you know, you're going to find a lot of valuation support for the name UH and that's why I

think the stock and outperformed this year. It's interesting just there already you're getting to the nuts and the bolts of fundamentals and decisions while you're picking certain companies to

perform over and above others. Do you think it's true that a lot of technology investors out there haven't done the fundamental analysis or indeed aren't able and set up for an environment that is completely out odds with what they've been used to, which is basically lower rates for longer there's no question and easy money time, you know, with with practically zero interest rates allowed multiples for one to get in times very aggressive, and it kind of

there was a fools follow fools, and I was certainly one of those fools. From time to time on certain stocks. We all make mistakes. I've made fit more than my share of them. But in terms of the fundamentals, you know, I still stick with those, and I think a lot of tech investors do. I don't think. I don't think that's hot rising interest rates. So this caused names like Amazon or Google or Meta to underperforming stocks. I think there are other issues, including now increasingly cyclical risk. In

case of Meta, there are these Apple privacy changes. In the case of Amazon, there's also some MISSE execution on the airport, and then also just full exposure to inflationary concerns. So there really were a lot of issues besides just

rising rates. Rising rates really affected those long term profitable, near term profit less companies, and that would be more names like a Shopify for example, and that's why you saw names like that with the highest multiples correct the most last year, Mark, Caroline and I spent a lot of the last few weeks of the year talking about

layoffs or hiring freezes, cost cutting. I'm trying to summarize all of your your points that you seem to be suggesting that all the pain is gone, like it's been done. We we we we We've gone through it, We've d risk. Is that your conclusion going into this year? No, I I wouldn't go that far, wouldn't be that bold. US multiples have been de risked. Could multiple still fall, of

course they could, but they have fallen pretty dramatically. And you've got a good number of these large cap internet names that I look at that are trading at five year trop multiples. Doesn't mean they can't go down further, but a lot of the risk has been taken out. The same thing with estimates, and one of the things that it's caused estimates to come down are these companies

taking costs out of their business. The six percent riff reduction enforce at door Dash, the riff production enforce at Meta these companies and Amazon did this to There are companies that have yet to do this, though Google is one where I just think they had five quarters in a row of accelerating in record high employee ads up through the September quarter of last year. It's really kind

of a little bit shocking in hindsight. I'm surprised that the company didn't start tempering down it's number of new employees. I think they're gonna have to start, you know, reducing that employee footprint or else margin is gonna be under a lot of pressure. Mark we took to twin at to Oscar already it's how they see three. We asked are you bullish on tech or you barish on tech? Vs? Are the results will bring them up for you mostly bullish respondents bullish? What would it take to make you

bullish on technology broadly going into the rest of the year. Well, I'm actually surprised that the survey was that bullish. Frankly, I'm I'm surprised by that. So, uh, you know, I want to be tactically constructive, and I tell you one thing I still want to get across the point here. I think demand trends are going to continue to soften

they did in Q three. I think when the Q four results come out over the next month, we're going to see the revenue trendsfer online retail, online advertising, cloud computing companies. Those are all continued to soften, and I think they will continue to in the middle through the middle of twenty three. Then I hope and the market hopes, that fundamental trends stabilized, revenue growth starts to re accelerate.

If that happens, you'll start seeing multiples go up. And especially with cost taking out, you have revenue growth reacceleration on a lower cost base, you get this EPs slingshot opportunity. That's what's going to cause these stocks to work well. So the market is sort of hoping thinking that that will happen in the back cap of twenty three. And the question we all need to ask ourselves is is the market going to be too early or too late on that call? All right? Mark mehadia ever call a

day one three in the bag, Thank you. It was Sam bang Winfried's day in court. The ft X founder appeared before a federal judge in Manhattan and pleaded not guilty to criminal charges he's now set to face a trial in October. Stood outside, this is the one the only Asian hallibus joining us from the courthouse, and we'll where next Shannani. What a day it's been, Caroline, Because in addition to him playing not guilty as we had expected to eight criminal counts here, there's a lot else

that happened. A trial date has been set for October. Second, now, if everything goes correctly, and that does indeed happen on October seven A second, Sorry, this is expected here to take a number of weeks to play out in terms of the trial that we made too later this year. In the coming weeks, we expect the US to start presenting their evidence, to present evidence at greater scale on the charges that they have made. And remember, then there is a process by which Sam Bangmun freed and his

lawyers set forward their motions. So there is a process here, and again things could change before October, certainly, but we did get a lot of information today about the nature of what we'll play out ahead and the timelines in which we are preliminarily operating on. Now. I will also say there was contention in the court. Sam Bangmun freed came in wearing a suit north face backpack that was his arms crossed as the prosecutors asked to amend the

terms of his bail package. Now this is very interesting because Bloomberg is separately reported Aba Beny Morrison for US has broken that US prosecutors are separately investigating this idea here of money being transferred out of FT and Alameda wallets. Remember, the part of a THEIL amendment now is for them to seek the spf SA. Magma Freed himself cannot be taking money. It cannot be taking any cryptocurrency assets or

any other assets from Alameda and f TS wallets. Now he himself has tweeted as we know that he has not done so, but the prosecutor had said the assistant attorney has said that this is something that they've seen him lie about before in general, and so again a point of contention here. But we will see this play out in real time, all right, thanks to bloombergs Snali Bassett. October seems a long way away, given that that story

is dominated headlines for the last two months. Welcome back to Bloeveog Technology of Caroline Hide in New York alongside at Ludlow in San Francisco and big text we out of the world of hedge funds in fact today, Yeah, it was really interesting because throughout the day this was one of the most read stories on the Bloomberg terminal

and online. It's about Serga cap okay debut Tuesday. It's the first or biggest launched by a woman led hedge fund one point eight billion dollars in assets under management. And I found this so fascinating because we've been writing a lot of Bloomberg about how hedge funds suffered in two Those that kind of looks more to private markets fed a little bit better. But this is really interesting based on what Serga Cap is going to be focused on.

Malagan caused the founder. She's kind of this alumni of Lone Pine Capital and according to sources, this is interesting Caroline. She's going to be using data science to invest in themes that look at how technology can improve pretty bog standard areas. So how technology enhances financials, industrials, healthcare is

enterprise data. But really the why we care here is that this is the largest debut of a woman led hedge fund in the industries here streak given all of the volatility literally around this industry and the under performance of two. It was a headline that caught my eye, and certainly this is a name that we want to keep an eye on going forward. Historic day, it would seem there's some history being made in politics as well.

If I briefly want to bring you the headline after Macarthury suffered a historic rebar remember and a pretty drawn out speaker vote, they are going to be a journeying now until tomorrow Wednesday noon, after failing to elect a Speaker of the House. Of course, that's in the United States politics. So for now we see an adjournment after three rounds of votes to elect a Speaker of the House. But let's get back to our bread and butter. Let's

get back to technology. Let's get back to in fact precede investing as well, and in this environment, many saying that's still the area that's going to be humming along quite nicely. My al gave as with our CEO of tech Stars. It is invested in Get This more than three thousand three early stage startups, making it one of the world's largest precede investors, having written early checks to companies such as Uber and Twilio. It is wonderful to have you here in York. And how are you feeling

as we enter twenty three? How are the companies which you help fund feeling. I think three is going to be one of the trickiest year on record since the dot com the dot com bubble, for both investors and startups, and mostly because there are so many things happening at the same times. On one hand, you have valuations going down, found raising lasting much longer I p O not happening, and as a result of that, we expect a lot

of companies are going to fail. At the same time, we're seeing an influx of early stage ideas and a lot of entrepreneurs on the back of some of the tech layoffs that have met the headlines. And then on top of that you have the VC industry which is going through a fundamental restructuring and what looks more and

more like a pretty deep consolidation. So trickier for everyone. Tricky, many say, from the ashes rise the roses and and d We saw that perhaps in the thousand and seven eight after the financial crisis, we saw the birth of Uber. We all the birth of Airbnb, and there likes. What do you look for at the moment in the people that you're wanting to be helping, wanting to be mentoring, want to be giving money. How we started to see a focus on perhaps the profit side of the equation.

So we we've been investing in early stage for fifteen years and we have continuously looked for the same thing. We want resilient, unstoppable founders who are working on really

innovative ideas and big markets. And the reason why three four early stage investors like us is really exciting is because we see a lot again talking about the tech li off, a lot of tech workers coming and being like, I want to be an entrepreneur, and they come with very big idea and then when you look whether it's by geography or by industry, there's like massive pool of innovation happening. And so I don't think there's ever been

a better time to be an early stage investor. Actually, mail one of the conversations Caroline and I were having towards the end of two was about the positives that come out layoffs. Obviously incredibly tough losing your job, but actually, if you look back at prior recessions, the dot com bubble t eight, a lot of those laid layoffs. Laid off go on to be entrepreneurs in their rights start their own companies. Do you agree with that the school

of thoughts absolutely, and we're seeing it right now. The number of entrepreneurs who are peaching us to become their investors, who come from the midle of this world, the Google of this world, has increased dramatically, and so that's extremely positive. And again across multiple industry and multiple geographies, we're seeing that.

The other positive that is not always talked about is for early stage companies UM there was a lot of pressure on compensation to hire tech workers, and with the layoff that have happened in the pressure on compensation has decreased, and it has been a lot easier for a lot of our portfolio companies to hire the head of product that they had always dreamed about, or the c for that they had always dreamed about. I find text I

was really interesting. You've got about a billion dollars in assets under management, right, but you look at precede, that's very different size and scale to the industry. As I understanding. You know, lots of players in the seed stage or precde have tens or maybe a hundred million dollars. It makes me think about consolidation and this idea that actually small venture capital firms are all trying to buy for similar promising names. What do you expect the industry to

experience this year. So, because we are one of the major deal flow to the venture world, we talked to thousands of investors every year, and we are seeing now something that is not yet reflected in the data. We're seeing an increasing number of emerging managers. Managers will have less than a hundred million dollars of assets under management, will have raised one, maybe two fonts, telling us behind closed door, we're not going to raise our next FONT.

And so we expect that the number of small venture capital firm is going to decrease dramatically, potentially up to fifty of the venture capital firm that exists today seizing practically to function in the next few years. May your background also really fascinating And we speak here as a lot of Europeans basically around a table talking about US opportunities, but go global for us. You're someone who's led businesses and in Russia, in Europe, your farm of course France.

What what a the global opportunities here? Is everything going to revert to the mean, the normal of Oh, we're going to back tech entrepreneurs out of Selicon Valley and they're kinda gonna look like US. I don't think so. I think what's what's happening right now is a lot of other places creating very vibrant ecosystem. Uh. Look at the Middle East and Africa right now, it is booming a lot of entrepreneurs, lots of capital flowing their big

market that are completely untapped. Even Europe, where we're both from, like Paris, has done a phenomenal job at at creating an extraordinary ecosystem, and so we are textures are very bullish on opportunities. Not just in the US obviously the US remained the leading market for tech entrepreneurs, but also Middle East, Africa and Europe for sure. Male the I p A market ground to a halt last year. Will it revive this year? I don't think so. It looks

like it's going to flatlock, continue to flatline. Um. The unknown, obviously, is around a few of the big I p O which are supposed to be in the pipe, things like

Insta carts or or Stripe and not made changed. The sentiments on the market, but as of today, we advise or portfolio companies to look at alternative We tell them that if they're desperate for an exit, they probably already lost the battle and that they should be focusing on alternative option down round of venture debts or M and A as an alternative to I P. We we do get a little bit hung up on I P O s right, this kind of north star that you look

to to go public but actually precede seed stage. You have options, right, strategics can acquire you. You can you know, basically shop yourself to a bigger party. What are some

of those options? I mean, do you see M and A broadly taking place in absolutely and again behind closed door Because of our large portfolio, we have a lot of conversations with a lot of people in the market, and what we're seeing is an increasing number of large companies looking at M and A. Because the valuations are going down, it makes it more attractive for them, and because the founders are struggling to found raise from the VC world, there are more amenable to have this conversation.

So I would expect a lot more M and A this year and next year. Let's talk industries or problems looking to be fixed right now, because you talk about M and A, and a lot of the issues about M and A is sometimes regulatory in their minded people can't make the acquisitions they perhaps would like to. What are the problems that people want to fix that they

would like to fix right now? What are you seeing from these entrepreneurs who perhaps getting laid off at some of the big companies that can't do the purchasing right now. So Number one climate climate tech, and it's a It's at a point right now where I'm starting to wonder whether there's not going to be a big bubble specifically in climate tech. But the market is hard, lots of innovation, lots of capital, and look objectively big problems to solve,

So that's an interesting market. We're also seeing a lot of things happening in foot tech and arctech UM in particular following the war in Ukraine and the problem was supply chain, so I think a lot of people have started realizing that actually, um, we needed to be more focused on creating food for the world. And then health tech is also booming. Lots of things happening in that environment, uh, especially in developing countries where people are starting to get

access to better healthcare. Really good to have some time with the head. Yeah, well, you know we're very focused on that. You know that what I would call the sexy end of the startup curve. Right, we talked all about these growth stage companies. Actually, everything you and I have heard in recent weeks says look at seed and presead stage because that's where we'll see some activity. Ine mile Garv, CEO of Textiles, will find out over the

course of the next twelve months if you're right. Thank you. Now, coming up from the I p O drought to the ads drought, how will Matter and Google fair as the advertising market moves out of their favor? What does that mean for media? This is Bloomberg. I want to bring you some headlines that cross the terminal. This our Twitter is easing its political ad policies in an effort to boost revenue. Will dig into that as we get more information.

But a slowdown and advertising markets could present a big problem for tech. This year, US advertising growth is expected to have from ten percent to five three according to an analysis published Tuesday by Bloomberg Intelligence. Here to discuss this, Mark Douglas, CEO of Mountain a software to help companies launch direct response campaigns on television in particular Mark, Let's start with that forecast, the idea that broadly the ad markets growth will slow from ten per cent to five three.

Does that reflect what you're seeing? Um? Yeah, And it's occurring for a couple of reasons. I think in when you look at like paid search and paid social, especially paid social like we're talking Instagram, TikTok, those kind of platforms which you're seeing there, I think it's a lot of concerns about brand safety around the political discourse on these platforms, and also just a sheer performance. Apples changes

did wind up having an impact. Their changes in terms of identification and device did wind up having an impact in particular one Meta and Snap and others. The other thing that's affecting it when you look at the television market, there's just a supply demanding balance. You have a lot of inventory coming online from Netflix, Disney Plus and other suppliers. And while brand advertisers are literally not spending more, they're spending less. So that's going to create a price war

and you're gonna see declining prices. The two of those combined, they're having a pretty negative impact UM in the near term. Oneis markets, but I think you'll see more growth in the second half. Two was just packed with news and a significant events. And you think about two February in the start of the war in Ukraine, the impact that had on advertising, in the shock that Meta gave us in February, and then by the end of the year we're talking about add supported tiers for Disney, for Netflix,

and the markets changed its conversation. How important were those sort of big ticket items in two in shaking up the landscape and advertising. Yeah, I don't think that kind of news. I mean, obviously the war in Ukraine then

affected the stock market. So I think what we saw is over the summer, advertisers just somewhat panicked and didn't know what to do, you know, so, but they that started to recover in the second half of the year, at least in our business, we ended the year with record breaking months, So you know, if that's any indication of larger market UM, advertisers, like I said, panicked over the summer, and I think once they got in the holiday season, they realized, look, if we're gonna grow up business,

we're gonna have them spend money to reach consumers. So I think ultimately the market, the market in the second half kind of stabilized. But again these macro forces, you know, especially like price war is coming from so much supply, those kind of things are just having a big overall effect. I think it will create a better future though, and meaning that there's no longer this duopoly of Jet, Google

and Meta, you know, dominating advertising. I think television is now digital is going to really have a big impact on the overall market. Okay, so who wins that mark from your perspective in terms in terms of TV, it's the big players. I think you're likely to see a lot of M and A. So what's gonna happen is there are new advertisers coming in the market. I mean TV is now The way to think of this is

there what's this duopoli between Google and Meta. They now control less than half of the advertising body, so that their overall controllers applient as other areas have grown. And so what has happened is television with connected TV streaming is digital also and it's now benefiting in the same way that digital advertising benefited Google and Meta. And so you see this growth occurring there more customers coming into

the market, They're spending more. It's diversifying the customer base away from just a thousand or two thousand advertisers to many more. And so television is coming on strong as this third big scale channel that's now a true digital channel. And I don't think that means Men and Google lose, but it just kind of means that they no longer dominate in the way they have in the pass and that's really good overall for avertis for the advertising industry,

and there's new sort of rules of the game. The load of the companies need speech. You have to learn, particularly when it comes to maybe Disney Plus not wanting to advertise you're thinking of alcohol if they give a politics and just have the headline about Twitter perhaps going a little bit more into political advertising. But how are some of the clients you speak to how companies and advertises marketers thinking about where they place the ads, how

they place the ads. Yeah, I mean, so the advertising market is splitting the brand advertisers and that you don't sell alcohol like over the internet, right, so so so you certainly and so you know the brand advertisers that everyone thinks of when they watch sports and what and watch other TV there there's not actually that many of them. It's about you know, thousand and two thousand and but it's what everyone thinks of. It's the direct response advertisers.

I mean, Meta has ten million customers advertising on their platform. Those are numbers they in nown school Goal has an equal or higher number and so and now you're seeing a lot of those advertisers come to television and so those advertisers really don't care about those rules. It's the brand advertisers that worry about how their brand is being perceived.

The direct response advertisers that really truly dominate advertising. Um that they're like, if you think of the direct response market the US is three times the size of the brand average sizing market and television. Those direct renaissance advertisers, they just want to reach consumers wherever they are. They're not worried about rule, you know, they're not thinking of

those rules. So so you know, all of these things you're seeing in terms of the you know, rules like that that really just pertains to to the advertisers that are not directly measuring the response the ads, which is what we mean when we say direct response advertising are great to get your direct analysis with us on direct response advertising and all of the gamute maybe sensitability there,

Mark Douglas, we thank you so much, CEO Mountain. Meanwhile, well from advertising year ahead to perhaps your own resolutions around work, what about perhaps we have fewer meetings? He d e commerce giant shopper fight. Did you hear it's clear today putting an end to unproductive meetings saying look, employees just say no. They're currently saying, look, we are calendar purging right now. We were removing all recurring meetings

if we can't remember why or if they started. And also they're reupping the ruler that on a Wednesday tomorrow, not a single meeting to we had. That's quite a commonplace thing here in on the West Coast, you know, Twilio Meta have no meeting Wednesdays. When I read this story, I thought, how are they going to make this happen? You and I are calendars are full of meetings right And in the story they say that there will be

a boss to enforce this. So every time somebody organized as a meeting, you get this bot pop up and say a reminder. You know you don't need to have this meeting. Right, it's bizarre, It's completely bizarre. But it's also like the opposite effect of the pandemic. Right, we all worked at home but then became so accustomed to doing constant zooms or meets or whatever it is, and

it's a money suck. Basically, the University of North Carolina are saying a hundred million dollars on average is lost by a big company because everyone spending their time of meetings. And it's the opportunity cost. It's what you're not doing when you're in that meeting that perhaps didn't need to be arranged. You're not being productive and perhaps being a bit more stressed. I can hear the producers in my saying,

don't think about it. You're already late enough as it is to our meetings, all the meetings, all the time going viral and outcoring of support for Damar Hamlin, the twenty four year old Buffalo Bill safety who suffered from cardiac arrest on Monday night. Football Hamelin is unsurprisingly gaining support with well wishes, but he's also gaining support in fundraising. His go fund me page, astonishing it was from to purchase toys for underprivileged children. Barely at that point a

cross two thousand, five hundred dollars. The goal was without two. Now the fund has more than four and a half million dollars, more than three million donated to the fund in a seven hour period from more than seventy five thousand donors. Really, the outpouring here is substantial, and indeed

from some key executives. I know you've kept any on. Yeah, I mean, this is our going viral segment, right, and it's fair to say that in those moments after it happened on the field, it did go viral, particularly on Twitter. An example, Bob Iger, the returned CEO of Disney, took to Twitter and said, you know, tonight we should all

be praying for Deamar Hamlin. But that for me. You and I have been covering Twitter in particular, but social media broadly for weeks months, and this is the first moment where I saw a very widespread um support, sympathy, empathy which has been missing from that platform for some time. And what was so fascinating to me, Carrow, is how many people tweeted please do not share the footage of

the incident itself, which is very interesting. Yeah, there are times where humanity comes together, and in many ways, social media can be a divisive, sometimes sport like environment where people have their teams and they go against one another. In this moment, there were no teams, there was no division, and it's just everyone coming together to try and tosform one individual. Yeah. I meanwhile, that does it. From this edition of Bloomberg Technology tomorrow, we have the so far

ahead of Investment Strategy Liz Young. Yeah. Then don't forget of course, to check out our podcast. You can find it on the terminal, on Apple, Spotify, and on iHeart. This is Bloomberg