Tech Stocks Rally and Rising Consumer Sentiment (Podcast)

this tech rally going to last? Last? Walmart Home Depot target Low's next week is a big one for retailers reporting earnings. Consumer sentiment has been rough the past few months, but new data suggests we're turning a corner. Will Chat all Things eat commerce and competition for electric semitrucks is heating up after the Senate past a roughly three d and forty seven billion dollar initiative to boost the transition

to clean energy and cut emissions. Right now, it's pretty much Tesla versus Nikola, but tax incentives could your more players into the race. But first, the Federal Bureau of Investigation sees classified records, some marked top secret from former President Donald Trump's Moral Lago home. That's according to a copy of the warrant seen by Bloomberg. Wendy Benjaminson is our deputy managing editor for Bloomberg News over in Washington. Wendy, thanks for joining us this Friday. Let's stick to the

basics here. What did we learn from the unsealed documents? Well, we learned not as much as one would hope. We learned that they did get about two dozen boxes of documents UM from from the Moral Lagoa state. We know that some of them were, as you said, top secret or even higher UM sensitive compartment and information, which means that it's only supposed to be in a closed room, shield off from cell phones and all sorts of other UM interference, and those were, you know, sitting around mar

Lago UM. We also know that they were searching for evidence of violations of three crimes, including a segment of the Spionage Act. I'm not saying Donald Trump is going to be charged with espionage, but there's a subsection of that which relates to mishandling class by documents. We don't know that there is evidence of that. We just know that they got these documents. Wendy what is the concern here?

What did the d J and investigators looking at looking for? Well, this all started when the National Archives, which keeps presidential records and then gives them to a president's library. Um, they have been working with Trump to representatives throughout. They got the transfer of fifteen boxes in January of this year, and they began looking through them and realized that there

was classified national security information. We don't know what exactly that means yet, and UM that's prompted the Archives to reach out to the Justice Department and say, hey, you may want to get these backs. So that's what this action was. We don't know if it's going to relate to any of the cases against Donald Trump. It depends on I think, when we know what what the documents actually show. But um, you can be sure that the Justice Department will be coming through those this weekend. Wendy,

It's always the question. But what happens next? I think we don't know as the as the answer. I'm afraid we know that they will go through these and try to figure out what what was in here, what crimes might be violated, and then they'll decide whether to charge or start talking to the former president, right, but we continue to follow your team's covery, Wendy over the weekend. That's Bloomberg's Wendy Benjaminson in d C. Thank you. That's gonna check on when moth Kits ended the week with

Bloomberg's Katie Greifeld out in New York. Katie Tech ending the week strong, pretty strong. It was a big risk on day. As you can see from the board behind me, this isn't it. This is single stocks. But if you look at the indexes, for example, you saw the SMP five hundred finished higher. You saw the NASAC one hundred finished higher as well. There we go. You did see bonds rally a little bit, but just five basis points are so ad I'm gonna really just continue to fold

that into this risk on mood. You saw Bitcoin managed to speak a little bit of a game. Of course, the board has flipped to the after hours trade, but Bitcoin higher. You can see it is twenty four thous dollars a coin. We haven't been at those levels in a little bit, and this was again a big finish to what's been a really big week. If you look at the NASAC one hundred for example, this was the fourth straight week of games. If you look back at this chart, you see a lot of red on this screen.

That is the longest consecutive weekly rally since all the way back in November one. So I don't know, maybe we're at the bowl market, but in any case, it's been quite a run, especially for those tech socks. Now let's look at some of those individual names. As you can see, pinto a duel up top lower today. That's, of course after news this morning about China delisting five of its largest state owned enterprises state owned companies rather from US exchanges that weight on ad R s. But

you go down the list again very strong. You had Chips coming back. You had Peloton surging on a mark German scoop of course that they're going to cut about eight hundred jobs, are going to shut stores, They're going to raise the cost of some of their products. Just part of this big overhaul that we're seeing at that company. In Tesla to rallying almost five percent, maybe part of the broader risk on mood in the market. Maybe because you're getting married, Ed will remained to continue to watch

that story. But again a big move for Tesla. Thank Uktie. That's one m and a report that I'm able to confirm or live on there. Blue Kenny grow felt out in New York. Thank you. Does you point out Peloton a big move, but Friday Tech broadly outperforming in equity markets. I'm absolutely delighted to bringing Mel like Messino, CEO of WE Family Offices, which has fifteen billion dollars in assets under management. Mel, it's good to see you again. What's

your takeaway, Thank you? What's your takeaway from this week in the markets? Well, I think that it's been a great week, and actually it's been a great month for protech. And I think that it has to do with the fact that people are starting to believe that we're going to get inflation under control. Inflation is what will kill the earnings of tech companies, and and so I think that the mood is positive because they see that inflation,

inflation is gonna it's going to come down. We're kind of breathing a side of relief out here in San Francisco at the Bloomberg Bureau. Now that the kind of the bulk of earning season is over. If you were to draw up your scorecard from earnings, particularly the mega caps, what is your takeaway from this earning season, well, I think it's been mixed, but in general, h a lot of the companies exceeded expectations, both on the revenue side

and on the on the earning side. And I think the name of the game is not going to be a revenue. The name of the game is going to be earnings and what happens with earnings and earnings always look backward. You know, you're you're talking about the last quarter. I think the big question with earnings is what's going to happen in the next two quarters. And that's why I think that good news about getting control over inflation

is what's causing this rally. You know that historically Tech in the first half of the year not not the best play, but then does rebound and we've kind of seen that in the third quarter. Do you expect Tech to continue to have momentum in the second half of two It's hard for me to say it's that gonna have two but I definitely see it into and what where are those opportunities what will drive that? Yeah, I think that tech is going to be the way to

deal with inflation is a productivity. What's going to help us with productivity is tech and you have all the corporate spending money on their capits on tech, and so I I think that we're gonna definitely see tech continue to to improve. Now the valuation has got a little bit out of controllable for and so I think that um, you know, interest rates, um, interest rates going up and the discount rate that's implied in that in terms of earnings as actually it's what's made evaluations come down well

now like I'm seeing a CEEO we family office. Is great to have you late on a Friday, happy weekend. We'll see you again soon shares. The online secondhand good marketplace Poshmark dropped eight percent on Thursday, the biggest decline since May. The company gave a weaker than hope sales forecast for the third quarter as growth has been held

back by higher inflation and a changing global economy. But there were some bright spots, as user engagement on Poshmark jumped seventy percent year on year, joining US Sprage or Dan and Cars and I on the future is Poshmark CEO managed changers, so managed you know, the market's clearly focusing on this this sales outlook. What were the factors

behind that around that that pressure on sales growth. Well, we if you look at our Q two results, we started we beat the guidance on both revenue and UH and sort of came to the midpoint on the earnings. I think when we look into the future we look at Q three, one of the good things that's happening is that we are starting to see our growth and our rhythm and kidens be more like twenty nineteen, which is pre COVID, which is a healthy to for poshmarkers.

As people are going out participate in participating in events, going to weddings, you know, going back to school. It's a great thing because you need fashion, you need to rotate your closet, and people are going back to the closet and then rotating it. So that's a good thing. But we're being cautious. I mean it's early. We're sort of want to observe it for a few months, and that's reflected in our guidance. I mean, it's remind us

how poshmark works. Essentially, you're pairing sellers of second handkerds with buyers and second handkerds. Right, But forward me a little bit about the profile of of user on the platform, the types of folks that are buying goods there. Yeah, poshmark is is unique in the sense that we allow you to turn your closet into a shop. So it really appeals to millions of people out there who have

a closet. I think almost everyone has a closet has some excess stuff to sell, so we really make it very easy to take their closet and start selling it if we provide everything built into the platform is shipping,

payment processing, etcetera. And the beautiful thing is the item goes straight from the seller to the buyer, so we hold no inventory and that allows us to have an extremely dynamic assortment, which has been a strong point, particularly in this changing sense of fashion going into the pandemic, coming out of it, going into from active where to work,

where to back to school? Where? Uh? And then on the flip side, we have people who are shopping these closes both for getting values and bargains, but also getting access to wide assortment. Everything you want, we believe within somebody's closets, so we put them all together and that's past manage. I want to get into the psychology of the consumer, that what what kind of lens. Do you

get into the health of the consumer. Are their users shopping on your platform because they're feeling the pain of inflation, so they're looking to the secondhand goods market rather than buying off the high street, you know, off new products. What are the kind of macro characteristics that you're seeing in your in your users. First thing is consumers are looking for value. Consumers are always looking for value, but

in these inflationary times, they're especially looking for value. Number two is consumers preference and dastes are changing and a lot of times traditional retail is not able to keep up. And what you're seeing with a lot of first supply shade famine and now sort of retail store lout is this mismatch of computer supply and demand, consumer supply and demand. And what we see with posh market is this ability to dynamically match from the closets from people this supply

and demand. So that's the second thing is people looking for latest trendy things and that trends are changing, but they flips of the posh markets that consumers can also make money and as people are sort of looking for extra sources of income, wash market provide that as well. Told me about Poshmark parties. What is a Poshmark party?

So two things. We have virtual parties that are happening online where people are selling together, will have a theme, and thousands, sometimes hundreds of thousands of pop will come together. In fact, our evening parties are so big that I've seen parties in the last few weeks that have hit ten million items being listed in a single party from across the country. So they are really a group selling event where people are coming buying and selling together, and

then we take them physical. So we hosted a party in l A a couple of weeks back, and next week we have one in New York City, and there we have hundreds of sellers who come together. They connect with each other, they help each other, they learn from each other, get inspired. And we also have new sellers coming in where we help them activate their closets and people who junge Washmark and learn there's something called closet consultation. They can see how to run their online business faster.

So they become sort of a small manifesto of these virtual events. Bloom Bag Intelligence analysts Tam Goyle is also excited about poshmarks potential for growth outside of North America international markets. Can you update us on the plans there? Yeah. Are Our Canadian business just hit four million users, we sort of celebrated three year mark and has more than a billion dollars of invntory lists, so that market is

coming along. And we launched in Australia India during the pandemic and as we are coming out of it, we are seeing the engagement and physical events starting to build the communities there. So we believe the para dime of really finding the future of fashion inside your closet is well aligned, not just in US and Canada, with other countries as well. All right, well, we'll look for updates

on those new markets as they come online. Posh Mark, CEO, Managed Chandra, thank you very much for joining us the update on the second hand goods market. Meanwhile, delivery startup go Path is tapping a new CFO to help it become profitable. Panera Bread's CFO Ted Steadham will join the same role for Gopath. According to sources, stead and work that we work as global head of business Planning and Financial Operations. He also served as CFO at Young Brands China.

Business coming up, Europe's drought will further raise energy prices and disrupt trade. As the Rhine rivers water levels did below a crucial mark. This is bloom. There's a guess storage itself, it's not sufficient. We are facing a crisis at the moment. It's been produced by the cush off of Russian gas. But it tells us yet again just how volatile and uncertain fossil fuel prices are. Guess press will remain very high and it also may result in

some disruption. We cannot magically get sort of tens of hundreds of gigger waters of renewable energy before winter. So it is a matter of saving energy, it's a matter of securing sources. Spec should be more obligatory measures to reduce to reduce consumption. The first step obviously is to become independent Russian supplies, which in the end can only be managed by additional imports, mostly llergy. Here today we've seen the the reduction in the guest consumption by about

ten percent in the EU. I think the effect of this crisis will be that Europe will be further down the path to emissions reduction. So it would otherwise be that some of the commentary on the energy Crunch Europe is currently enduring and things don't look much better on the trade front. Germany's Rhine River has dropped to a level that could disrupt the transport of fuel throughout Europe.

The effects could ripple through the continent for months. Bloomberg's Guy Johnson explains as of this afternoon here in Europe, the Rhine River has become impossible at the critical waypoint of Cow just to the west of Frankfurt. This is something that we've been anticipating for really quite some time. You can see the water levels as they've been dropping over the last few months. They have now dropped through the critical forty centimeter points at Cab. That's just under

sixteen inches. That means effectively the river is no longer navigable for large barges. Now, this is crucial for Europe, not just for Germany, but for the whole of Europe. Let me show you what the map looks like here. So you've got ratted Rotterdam up here on the coast. The river Rind runs through Germany through Cologne just to the west of Frankfurt there's Cab and then runs through the rest of Germany down towards Switzerland. This is a

hugely important waterway. It transports all kinds of things up and down for Germany and for the whole of Europe. Think about coal, think about gas, think about diesel. All of these things go up and down this river. Big chemicals companies are to the east of Cow as well, they will now be restricted. Big power plants that that require cold to be floated up the river on barges will now see those supplies restricted. This comes at a time when Europe is already facing a massive energy crisis.

The fact that we now have drought in Europe that is lowering these river levels is only going to exacerbate that problem and pour further pressure on politicians to do more to deal with this economic crisis that is looming and getting worse and worse as we head towards winter here in Europe. So, as of today, the Rhine is now closed at Cow and it looked like and it looks like it's not going to rain for a while.

Thanks to Boomberg's Guy Johnson in London to that update on the Rhine rivers in other stories to watch, Three of China's biggest state owned companies planned to delist from US exchanges that's fall out from a dispute over whether American regulators should be allowed to inspect audits of Chinese

businesses who shares are listed in the US. The three companies that will delist our China Life, Petro China, and Cinepec Massaoshi Sun has now lost more than four billion dollars on a series of ideals he set up at soft Bank to boost his compensation. The Japanese billionaire took the unusual step of establishing personal stakes in a series of soft Bank ventures in recent years. That was a mixing of company and executive interests that drew the ire

of investors. And Amazon, Oracle, and other data providers were pressed by a group of lawmakers about how they sell mobile phone location data. The companies offered assurances that the information could not be used to track women seeking abortion services. The Supreme Court's decision to overturn women's federal right to abortion has sparks concerns that location data can be used by law enforcement in states that have outlawed or restricted

abortion to prosecute people who seek reproductive care. I'm going to bring you some breaking news and headlines crossing the Bloomberg terminal. The House has enough votes to send a roughly four hundred thirty seven billion dollar TACKS, climate, and drug price package to President Biden's desk. The inflation reduction bill is designed to boost the US transition to clean energy and alleviate costs. Which had more about the bill's

impact on electric vehicles later this hour. This is Boomberg Technology. I am Ed Lovelow in San Francisco for more on Peloton's news. Let's bring in Bloomberg's Jackie Deavlos, who's out in d C. Jackie, what do we learn from Peloton on Friday? Absolutely well, for customers, you know, prices are going to be hyked up, and it's kind of a reversal from what we saw in April when we saw price cut for the bike and the treadmill UM. So if you were looking for a deal, you may have

missed out on that one. But it's really part of this broader plan to shift more of its costs from the hardware side of the business to higher margin memberships. And you know, layoffs are expected to impact around eight hundred people, mostly Constant traded, and you know the customer service and distribution and UM delivery type functions and this is a really bigger picture part of this broader strategy to overhaul the cost structure and redirect more of its

capital to research and development. You know the memo to employees that Barry McCarthy uh sent earlier today, you know, he outlines this rationale that you know, you need to spur innovation to spur revenue growth, and that's going to be key, especially when they've been burning so much capital. Barry McCarthy, the Peloton CEO, said in this internal memo that cash is oxygen and oxygen is life. And clearly, you know they're worried about that. They're operating health if

you will. But what's the why the context here, Jackie? They did layoffs in February as well. Is it that the demand for the product has disappeared, that people just simply aren't using Peloton hardware anymore? You know, I think it's a company aation of things. The economic outlook has certainly shifted since the beginning of the year. And when he joined earlier in February, you know, it was already undergoing this major turnaround plan, but it wasn't really sure

where some of the pain points were. Was it demand, was it just kind of this broader grim outlook. And what we're seeing now is that you know, they signaled they expect demand to soften going forward, and when consumer spend is really on the line, a luxury premium product like Peloton is more vulnerable, and you know, so future growth is somewhat hanging in the phrase, especially um. You know they've signaled that sales aren't going to be as

strong now when it comes to saving money. This is where uh, you've seen somewhat of a vacillating in strategy. You know, when they upped that membership cost earlier in in April, UM, that was signaling that, look, this is somewhere. This is an area that they want to tap going forward. It's higher margin, it's recurring, predictable revenue. So you're definitely going to start to see them lean into that as

the demand side of the picture becomes more uncertain. Well, investors certainly like what they saw the stock jumping almost fourteen percent Bloomberg's Jackie Devil loss. How in d C, thank you have a great weekend. Let's turn to retail earnings. Lots coming up next week from the likes of Walmart

and Macy's. So let's take a little look ahead and talk about what to expect with Nicky Baird, VP of strategy for the global retail technology company app Toss, and my good mate Bloomberg Zone Brending Case out in Dallas and Brendan, I'm gonna start with you. You You know this is the week for you, right, You're going to be at your desk. I know you're going to be just so much coffee, so much coffee, bracing for what's to come. But actually we already have a good sense of what's come,

don't we. That's exactly right. It is gonna be a big week, but it's going to be a week that's sort of a sequel to an announcement that Walmart made a few weeks ago in which it Warren that as profits were going to be down more than expected. And the reason for that is that inflation is just hitting people really hard and it's leaving them with less money

to spend, especially on general merchandise as opposed to groceries. Uh. And I think what we'll what we'll be looking for next week, We'll be looking for any kind of clues or commentary they offer about how they see the state of the consumer and and and and how people are going to be able to hold up or not as the rest of the year goes on. So we've already

heard from Amazon, the big sort of e commerce giant. Actually, earlier in the year, we spoke to Annie Jassey and this was his kind of assessment of the inflation story. Have a listened. We thought that inflation would started to attenuate Ino, and with the war in Ukraine, it just went the other way and has significantly accelerated. So the cost of trucking and line hol ocean and air and fuel has just substantially gone up. And I think that will all tenuate at some point. No one no is

how long that will take. So Nikki I played that sound bite which was from June, the first week of June, because it seems like in some sense, the paw for inflation court retailers off guard a little bit. Did did the industry just kind of get inflation and how the consumer reacted wrong? I don't know that they necessarily got the inflation part wrong. I mean a lot of the goods that are on shelves in June were things that

were purchased before gas prices really went up. Before some of those stronger things really hit that drove prices up in other places, like in grocery where the supply chains much shorter. But I do think it surprised them how much consumer demand there was and how much consumers were still willing to spend um, you know, as things opened up more. I think we're starting to see the impact of that now where July I think isn't going to

be as strong retail sales as June was. Some of it is inflation biting into that, just scretionary spending, but I think as well, some of it is everybody's on vacation, everybody's out traveling, They're shifting their spending to other places. Yeah, Nicky Bed VP of Strategy, adopt toss and Bloomberg's brending case of course, thanks to you both. Happy weekend. Coming up, we'll talk about Ethereum's winning streak and by the way, is the merge finally happening? Really more than that? Next?

This is Bloomberg alright, time for our crypto report now, and EFA jumps ten this week for a sixth straight week of gains. This in anticipation of ground breaking software upgrade to its blockchain Ethereums upgrade has been long awaited, and news around it has been welcomed by investors. We've pushed its token price up by roughly over the past month. That's bringing Bloomberg's David Pan out in New York for more David. Everyone's been weighing in on this, the merge.

It's close, it's exciting, Ethereums all over the shop. Is it actually going to happen? Right? So, the merge has been on the roadmap of the Ethereum Blocked and Projects

Development UM since its inception twenties fifteen. There have been several dealays in the past several years and UM there has been a suspicion of the time of the merge, but based on the conversations with investors and developers that there are more confident than ever that the merger way happened in the next couple of months, based on a

couple of reasons. And firstly, we've seen the merge on the test nets being completed with without major technical at chist, which is a promising sign that shows the merch will actually happened in the near future. A Secondly, if we look at the derivatives market, in particular the ether options market we're seeing a lot of investors who are betting on a price hike during around the time of the merch.

So those those two things kind of indicate that, you know, um, there's a fairly high confidence level for the merch to happen in the near future. Well, it seems like investors a positioning for this to happen right there, that trying to get in because they anticipate further upward movement in ethereum. But then there's a school of thought that when it actually happens, we'll see a crash. Explain that logic to us. Yes, So um, so you know, like, um, there's a say

in the crypto space, you know, sell the news. Um at the end of the day. I mean, we have to remember that crypto market is highly speculative market, and a lot of hot money, speculative capital, you know, will be going from the large scale investors into the market around the time when the merge happened, because you're in search of our charge opportunities in the time of high volatility.

Another reason might be that you know, um, there might be other potential technical difficulties for glitches happening after the merge, which would discourage investors to invest more, to put more money into the into the project. So those are the two major reasons, um, you know, based on my conversations with investors and core developers behind the project. Alright, all eyes on ethereum then Bloombergs David Penn, thank you, have

a great weekend in New York. Let's look at the week that was in the world of electric vehicles, with Nicola beating expectations last weekend, announcing his active shake up this week, and Rivian cutting its annual earnings forecast saying it would have a larger than previously guided loss on

inflationary wose. And now we'll talk about the Inflation Reduction Acts which Congress has just voted to pass and pass onto the President Biden in his desk, which the President says, according to headlines crossing the Bloomberg, he will sign next week. The bill could deliver a boost to electric commercial vehicles

in this macro environment. Joining me now is Olfsakker's general partner at Red Blue Capital, a VC focused on early stage companies in the mobility and automotive space, and Bloomberg Zone Car's stock out on the East Coast. So you and I are laugh have discussed this bill through its passage. What's your reaction now that it seems real and done. So, there are a few things that are happening all at once.

The one is that there's a lot of political jostling in order to get the steel through um and it creates a short term confusion because it kind of immediately changes the subsidiary regime, changes the rules around it um and and that's going to create abit of fusion in

the NYOTA. It does correct for some of the things that were problematic in the pre existing EV subsidies, that there were effectively regressive, that wealthy people were the ones that could afford high end you know howmer evs and Tesla's, and yet you know those aren't necessarily the people you want to be subsidizing with tax dollars. Now, the bill is shifting the thresholds for who qualifies and which vehicles qualify to be more focused on the middle class. But

it is still fundamentally regressive in a sense. Why do you believe I think your school of thought is that it misses the point that actually there's a much broader section of the global automotive market that needs attention, that needs more support to electrify. It's not just the automotive market. I think what you need to think about is what

is the point of cars? They move people, and they to some extent move goods, especially if somebody's going to Walmart or something, they're they're hauling stuff in their vehicle. But what we should be focusing on if we care about climate and the two things that are attentioned in this, well we can get to them. One is America first, like these policies around American manufacturing, etcetera. And the other

is around climate. But if you care about that second bucket, the climate bucket, would you care about is not electrifying vehicles, not making cars that people own the drive four percent of the time electric, would rather electrifying miles. And the miles that really matter are the ones that are driven by fleets of various kinds, whether it's commercial fleas, trucks, delivery vans, but also fleets like Scuta, fleets in cities like San Francisco, which are also high utilization, and also

for delivery of food. Company like door Dash is doing one point six billion trips a year. You know, why isn't there focused on commercializing those trips. It's subsidizing those trips through these kinds of subsidies. So a big focus on the consumer. I want to bring Bloomberg, Bloomberg's Carl Stock into the conversationating Kyle, you know, give us a

sense of where we're at in electrification in America. You write fantastic story last week that basically points out that fuel anywhere in the States but on the West Past, for example. And you want to take a road trip, a classic American road trip in an e V, It's not that easy. Yeah. Well, I think EV adoption is is sort of ahead of where the narrative is. I think Americans are open to these vehicles, but the charging

infrastructure here is still a big challenge. We lag China, Europe, South Korea, even Japan when it comes to the number of places to charge a vehicle quickly, um, if you're outside of the Tesla universe. So that's because we haven't had subsidies like this in the past. We haven't had you know, rebuff policy like they have in Scandinavia and

in China. UM to really put these cords out there in the wild, and not just that you know, whole foods or the gym or Um your office, but at the National Park at the Grand Canyon, you know that's still kind of off the map for someone taking a Navy road trip right now. So you know, this build

speaks to that. But Biden's giant infrastructure package also speaks to that five billion dollars that's going to start to be deployed this autumn um should help cover a lot of those EV deserts, but we're not really there yet in terms of where you can go in these vehicles.

The other area is this whole energy crisis and and the motivation to move to e v s. In your reporting in recent weeks and months, what do you see in the US consumer in terms of their willingness to transition to evs their ability to afford an e v

The affordability is a huge chunk of it. I mean, these cars are they were expensive to begin with, They're getting more expensive now because of the supply crisis because dealerships can add on these market adjustment rates um and even if you're paying a sticker price, you're waiting months for one of these cars. So that's a big issue. A big thing in the bill, that pattern that is going through now is a provision for a rebate for

use dvs. And this is massive, Like anyone in the AVA universe is thrilled about this because in America, seven percent of cars that are purchased are pre owned, so this is the lion's share of the market. So to sort of have something that speaks to that buyer could move the needle drastically for the for the space. So that's the kind of consumer side of the story from Kyle. And again, you know, your point is that you we

shouldn't just focus on cause. So if I said to you, here's a pen, go back and rewrite the bill as you would have written it, what would you have put in that to hit those targets reducing emissions and advancing a transition to sustainable energy. Yeah, I think the focus on you know, going to a national park or something like that is not how people actually use cars. Cause are designed today for family to go to a picnic, right and have all this trunk space and all the

kids in the car. But in reality, most of the vehicles are actually being used to commute, or they're being used for trips that people take for retail um and usually there's only one person driving that car. Um and so I wrote a book, and the book is basically about the transition to what I call the trip economy. Basically, these trip marketplaces that bring things to you or take your places Uber, Amazon, Door, Dash, These all different ways

in which you can buy trips for specific purposes. And this trip economy rationalizes all the efficiencies in efficiencies of car ownership. Car ownership is extremely wasteful. Think about all the metal that's being moved all the way to take

you anywhere that you're going. That's just unnecessary. Um and and the real opportunity is to not electrify the energy that's being used to move all that weight, but actually to change how much energy is needed in the first place to move people and goods for the economic purposes of growing the economy, etcetera. So, if I were to rewrite the bill, I'd be focused on those kinds of opportunities. UM focus on commercial fleets. And how do you accelerate electrification?

If you look at where electrification is really happening today, it's it's buses and cities they've already close to those buses have already transitioned. UM. If you look at Amazon, you mentioned Rivian before they made a massive purchase of Rivian vehicles UM, and that's really what what is the

tailwind behind rivian um. Those those are the use cases that really have rapid adoption, and those vehicles are the ones that are doing high amounts of miles door dashes using e bikes in many cities to deliver goods, and they're bundling the amounts the packages that are being delivered so you don't have to Instead of having consumers take individual trips to a store, you have multiple trips being

bumbled into one one ride. And similarly with Uber you sing in London under pressure from uh the from TfL that it was actually much more quickly electrifying than than consumer flee. So that's that's if you want to show electric miles to electric education, that's that's a lot of the things you should be focusing on. We could have spoken about this all night, all weekend, perhaps big thanks to a Love Secres, general partner at Red Blue Capital and Bloomberg's Kyle Stock, good mate of mine out on

the East Coast. Thanks to you both. Well, that does it for this edition of Bloomberg Technology Monday. We have BBG Ventures President's student line to chat big tech regulation and the investing landscape. Don't forget to check out our podcast. You can find it on the terminal as well as online on Apple's Spotify and on iHeart. This is Bloomberg You day at the will have been keeping the