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This is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline Hyde and Ed Love Loves.
Live from New York. This is Blomberg Technology coming up. Time is ticking as the government works to avoid shutting down as Trump and Musk wield their political power.
This as the big Tech Leader Merry Go Round.
Mara Lago continues with Bezos the latest to try and influence Trump's policies and decisions, and the season for Intel deal making. Pe firms are competing for Intel's programmable chip arm Alterra. But let's just get to the broader markets
in general. Push to twenty twenty five. Should you should be allocating Hillary fresh on police to says with US senior Search Analystic clear Bridge with a real focus on software And that for me has been the key calling card of December November December was movement from the hardware, from the infrastructure into the software and the applications of AI.
Is that going to run on?
That's right, Thanks Carolin for having me. I think in general it should run on. Although I said we've had We've come so long in such a short period of time this year, with the IDV software in next being up forty percent between early August and early December, so I think some consolidation of the games we've seen is logical, and I could see more of that as we move
through time in the beginning of the year. For a few reasons, but I think in general the trend is up, and I think we've reached an important point of demarcation.
From the space.
Let's go into those few reasons of why perhaps we're going to get a few headwinds rather than tell wins at the start. Is it macro policy, is it Trump coming in?
It's uncertainties of for Macro and Trump, And it's also just time tested ellins. Like we're entering the seasonally weaker part of the year, companies are likely to guide conservatively on their Q four earnings calls, and also with what we heard from the Fed this week, the group will likely have to adjust to higher interest rates for longer and that has an impact on a few factors, including valuation.
Looking at valuation more broadly, there have been the haves and have not some of them been entering big benchmarks. I think of Valenteer that has just been such a software winner. As people get galvanized by the generative AI opportunities, are those valuations too heady? At what point do we start to see Ultimately some of the PE ratios look pretty healthy because.
They're managing to grow their earnings in lockstep.
Such a good question. Volunteer is in somewhat rarefied error. It's the first name of scale to really capitalize on engine AI in a in a large way, and it also has the government tailwinds of where it's position, so it's doing tremendously well. Its valuation is head and shoulders above everyone else's, so I leave that alone. For the rest of the space, we are about to see I think,
much better growth than we've seen. The space has been digesting a flurry of buy inactivity during COVID, so it's been really two years of digestion, and companies have been using technology as a source of cost savings. But now with the advent of generative AI and especially now agents, which I think market and a parodigm shift for the space, we're starting to see more investment.
That's exciting.
I mean, Palentino just showing how much has run up it's currently trading one hundred and ninety nine times future earnings. But let's go to where the oxygen is really being sucked out. The rim is all biogentic KI, And again I think there must be this question mark for investors and onlookers alike of well, show me the money, show me the productivity, show me how much this is actually gonna affect my life?
Because I'm just hearing the words.
Right, we're starting to see it's so early. The salesforce is effectively leading this movement. So many people are working on it, but they were of the first ones out with true urgentic functionality. I think it's been out seven weeks, maybe eight weeks.
Have you used it?
I personally have not used it. I've talked with a bunch of customers who have been using it, who have been testing it in data, and the feedback is excellent. The feedback is really compelling on accuracy, on ease of use, on the ability to draw together critical enterprise data and make some use of it. So I think we're just on the cusp of that. We're going to see other
companies do that. But it makes for a compelling story and we can start to dream of a better time where growth is better, and part of that growth is going to come not just from the engines themselves, but from the underlying infrastructure. We're seeing customers take on that hard work of improving their data, harmonizing it, getting it ready for use, in investments in cloud and underlying infrastructure to make that work.
We had Data Bax CEO raising a lot of money in the private markets, and they're all about sort of being able to use the data underlying. To that end, though, we're having a lot of the startups talking about genticare trying to get in the space, taking on the stile
war's the giants such as sales Force. Are we going to see more M and A up activity once again everyone's wanted Benny Off to hold off, But more broadly, these software companies are going to get back into M and A with perhaps a more friendly administration to it.
Sure, well, yes, no, and yes I think we absolutely do. I think part of the reason why we've seen that rise in software evaluations since the summer is because of this friendlier stance. We're likely to see at least on large companies buying smaller companies. We'll leave the rest of large company administration aside, but there's that we will see a lot of startups trying to get in the space, and some will be successful. There's always disruption when there's
a new cycle and new tech wave. But what is compelling is that we can see these large companies capitalize augment their ports selarios. We're seeing them do that salesforce specifically,
they are making tuck in acquisitions. Ultimately we probably see them do something, but right now they seem so focused on what they have at hand that we may not see what we've seen traditionally from the company in terms of large semine and in fact, the company still has a large swath of activists on the board who are highly engaged.
And keeping a close eye on the purse strings very more broadly. Therefore, when twenty twenty three twenty twenty four was so dominated by one name and Nvidia and everyone asking you about the infrastructure to the software names that you really kept an eye on, are we going to see this shift now? Is everyone going to just be more around agents?
Is it going to be the time of quantum?
What do you think twenty twenty five is going to be the cocktail party.
Question for you?
Okay, that's an exciting one and one that will change every week.
We have cocktails for more.
We've had this push and pull between semis and software the entire time, as investor try to identify the real AI beneficiary. In reality, over time they'll both be strong beneficiaries in one way or another. The names than that group may shift, but I think software is starting its
period of appreciation of AI wills and agents. As I mentioned, I think they represent the period of shift from homegrown AI or do it yourself AI to do it for me AI, and the customers would for prefer the vendors do it for them.
It's going to be.
Better, faster, cheaper in the end, and so I think that's a story that continues, and there are other things I like about software. Semis are in the process of getting beaten up. There's a lot of debate over whether we're going to see the big behemoth million GPU pre train models or the smaller models or post test time training where the training occurs at the point of inference,
and that will have financial implications. But in the end, we're going to need a lot of semis for what we're about to do.
The demands way eclipses supply. He let me fresh. So it's joy to have you in the studio, Senior.
We such Analystic clear Bridge, but always leave wanting to talk a little bit more. Meanwhile, Intel, let's talk about a chick company on online and shortlisting a number of buyout firms for the next round of bidding for a terror that's its unit which specializes in the design of low power programmable chips, so at according to sources, let's bringing in Murgs Ryan Gold. So how close to the nmark are we here? How many serious bids have come in and how broad are they?
Yes, if you think back Caroline too, just before Thanksgiving we put out a story that said that they were calling for bids. I think just prefacing all of this, ol Terra is kind of the single biggest topic in tech em and a right now for people who specialize in semiconductors.
It's taking up a lot of time.
People are spending a lot of money thinking about how to sort of structure their bids. So bids came in just after Thanksgiving, and so Intel has now got into a period where they've shortlisted. You've got firms like Bain who know and tell very well, you've got firms like Silver Like who also know Intel very well. And then there are others such as Apollo, you know, who are also looking Francisco partners, you know, quite experienced semiconductor operators.
And then just to add a little bit of intrigue to the mixed lettice conductor, which does specialize in what we call FPGA's the same sort of type of technology that Intel is trying to sell here in Old Terror, they are also in the mix and also in the second.
Round, but their own market capitalization not that huge, so they'd have to partner.
What are some of the options here?
Does Intel internally want to fully hand over rains here or keep.
Skin in the game.
I think Intel is quite COI on what it really wants to do. I think if you look at what they've said publicly, they have stated that their plan, even pre and postpat is to sell a stake and eventually take al Terra public. But I think just when you're in the situation that Intel's in, there are options, and you know, options on the table have to be considered. You have to think about the long term future and
sustainability of those options. And so I think if something is presented to them that they see is compelling, they will give good, good credence to it. And I would just say there are many sort of proposals on the table here. There are multiple paths outlined from different suitors.
For example, there could be a situation that you know, you see a group of private equities for so it's come together and take this on and sort of use their operational now to kind of transform more terror into what they think it should be.
Well, a few bankers are going to be busy over the firstive period, Ran Gold, We know that you will be too, Thanks so much for coming on. Meanwhile, coming up, time is ticking for the government to avoid a shutdown.
That says Trump and Musk weigh in.
We're talking how busy politicians are at this particular moment. Just take a quick look at one particular stock on the move as well. I just asked Hillary, look, is twenty twenty five is going to be the year we talk about quantum Well, it's here, it's now, and it's up twenty one percent for this particular stock one name where Craig Hallum is maintaining a buy on this particular company,
raising the price target to forty five. We've also had yesterday, DA Davison also initiating coverage with a by rating we're piling in.
This is Bloomberg technology.
The House of Representatives could vote on a temporary measure to fund the government for a brief period and avert a shutdown. That's according to two news networks, Fox News NBC citing sources. This after the House, led by Republicans, rejected a temporary funding plan despite Trumpenino Musk's pressure on goped or make us to support it when most Kaylee Lines joins us for now from Washington. It feels as though everyone's intent on not having a break before the holidays.
Yeah, usually the holiday period and the smell of jet fumes is enough to motivate lawmakers to get done when they need to get done by the deadline, Caroline. But we are getting very close to the wire here, keeping in mind that government funding does expire at midnight tonight, so we're talking of window here of just under thirteen hours.
And it's not yet clear what exactly planned C will be after Plan A failed, in part because Elon Musk and Donald Trump wanted to see that initial one hundred or one five hundred and forty seven page bill die. Then the Plan B, a much slim down bill that also extended the debt ceiling for two years, failed in miserable fashion on the House floor last night, with thirty eight Republicans voting against it. So now the question is going to be can something get through the House today
that will avoid us shut down. We are expecting that Republicans will be holding a conference meeting just over an hour from now at twelve thirty pm Eastern Time, where they could be informed of what the plan is next, and there have been reporting has been reporting from punch Bowl News that they could actually end up just dividing the bill that failed last night, so essentially holding separate votes on a continuing resolution on the debt sealing measure
on disaster relief and seeing what can get across the floor.
Because there's two tug of wars here for those who aren't as in the weeds as you are. On the one front, it seems as though this is pushed largely by Musk and Trump that we don't want to see this pork, this money being given away in terms of federal aid. But on the other side is the Republicans that are really flinching to the idea of the debt ceiling just being put aside for a couple of years, which doesn't seem particularly fiscally responsible according to them.
Yeah, that's exactly right, Caroline.
This is a relatively new idea that has at least publicly been introduced by Donald Trump in the last several days, this notion that the debt ceiling either should be extended or repealed, lifted entirely permanently before he takes office on
January twentieth. Now, lomakers I've spoken with, including the Democratic Majority Durbin last night, suggested to me that this is likely because he knows he wants to get through a tax reform package next year, and lifting the debt ceiling is an easy way to get that done, or at
least make that process easier. That said, there are a number of conservatives in the House, many representing that part of that thirty eight that voted against this measure last night, that do not want to see the debt ceiling raised because they want to see more fiscal responsibility than that. So that's really going to be the question as we move forward today. Can something that lifts the debt ceiling
get across the floor. Is it really only something that's going to keep the government funded for some period of time. It could ultimately be shorter than what they were initially planning, which was a three month continuing resolution that would kick
the can down the road to March fourteenth. But Speaker Johnson has a very difficult needle to thread here because he has to abide by not only what his conference wantson is willing to vote for, but what Donald Trump and Elon Musk clearly are willing to see across the floor. And he has to stand for a speaker election again on January third, when one hundred and nineteenth Congress sits.
And there's a very open question at this hour as to whether or not, given everything that's gone down in the last several days, Speaker Johnson is going to be able to keep the gabble.
Katie Lyones, great breakdown. Thank you.
Now we continue to report, of course, on the tech titans who have been meeting dining with President elect Trump in the last few days. Of course, you know that Meta CEO Mark Zuckerberg seemed to kick off the rounds of meetings Google co found us Aga Brin on the action Amazons Jeff Bezos. The latest list doesn't even include the other big tech leaders who are officially working within.
The incoming administration.
You know, mosk as the coludo Department of Government Efficiency, David Sachs, the AI cryptos are Marc Andreesen as an advisor, we understand, just to name a few numos. Kurt Wagner joins us to discuss the new intersection of tech and politics going into twenty twenty five. Some names that we already know very much about, but I'm sure a few more trying to line up for a dinner invitation.
Yeah, I mean, everyone seems to be making their way to mar A Lago. There is a very different feel this time around Carolina. As you might recall from twenty sixteen. At that point, you know, Trump did hold that sort of famous meeting in Trump Tower where all the tech executives ended up coming, but it felt more like they were almost forced to be there, right and they were dealing with their employees back at headquarters, mostly in Silicon Valley,
complaining and protesting and all this stuff. This time it feels different. They're going sort of one by one. They're having dinner at mar A Lago. They're you know, being very friendly. And I think the awkward situation here is the Elon Musk of this, all right, because all of these people are competitors in some way or another two Elon or his companies, and often when they're showing up to dinner in some cases like Jeff Bezos from Amazon, Elon Musk is at the table, right, and how much
can you really say to Donald Trump? How much can you really accomplish when one of your biggest enemies is sitting right there across the table from you.
Certainly space competition fears between Blue Origin and SpaceX cut. But ultimately, what do you think they will achieve by giving small In the case of the absolute balance sheets, they have small amounts towards the inauguration of Trump. And indeed, these meetings where they're showing off I think Mark was showing off the metaglasses and the latest innovations to President elect Trump going forward. How is this sort of dovetailing into actually what they want to see from a legislative agenda.
Yeah, I think everyone sort of is in agreement that the best way to stay on Donald Trump's good side is to praise him to show up and sort of demonstrate that with a public display of affection, right, whether that be a million dollar donation to the inaugural fund, showing up to dinner and making that trek across the country to be there in person. And every one of
these companies want something different. But I think generally, if you want a blanket Stata, they don't want him to come in hard with regulation around all the technology they're building, especially with regards to AI. Right, Like the last thing Mark Zuckerberg wants, for example, is for the Trump administration to some they say, hey, we're going to try to
hamper this AI growth. We're going to make it very difficult for you Mark Zuckerberg, in particularly because you didn't show up tomorrow lago and make Trump feel special.
Right.
And so I think they are all doing what they need to do just to simply be in his good graces and hopes that those are relationships because they are so important to the incoming president. Those relationships will ultimately help, you know, make their road easier over these next four years.
Many feel akin to Peter tail Now, who's the only one really in twenty sixteen, half times a change. Kurt Wagner, It's great to have your Time, Thank you Time now for talking tech. First up ten Cent and some related stocks is you'll see soaring on Friday after investor enthusiasm is taking over on a new gifting function on we Chat Now the future will allow yousers to give gifts price less than thirteen hundred dollars, excluding jewelry and educational services.
According to a statement, Snacks cosmetics service providers are all lightly beneficiaries class sticking with ten Cents, and it's partnering with Honor on cloud and AI development.
As as one of China's top.
Device makers, Honor is among Tencent's higher profile cloud customers. It will use ten cents big data, analytics and search tools, along with two companies jointly creating a coding assistant to help Honor software engineers, and Baido extends its decline that says investors react to news that Apple is in talks to work with ten Cent byte Dance on you guested
artificial intelligence. This also comes as newspaper reports that byte Dance has slashed the price of its new AI model, and Honheim Precision Industry, the Taiwan based manufacturer of iPhones of course it's known as fox Con too, is putting its interest in pursuing Nissan on hold as one negotiations for a potential merger with Hondura underway.
It's all according to source.
Meanwhile, karlosh Gohen, who was the architect of the Reno Nissan alliance twenty five years ago, said that the tie up between Nissan and Honda is a.
Quote desperate move. Here's what he told Bloomberg yesterday.
They have cash problem, they have investment problems. They're being really hammered in the United States. They got practically out of Europe, They're being challenged in China, and there is no plan in front of it. So I can tell you that mean there is panic mode inside MEISA.
In fact, that was colors go speaking earlier today with our own MANUSCRANI let's get out to Craig Jurell for the latest on the tie up.
And indeed all of it was.
Catalyzed Craig by Fox Cohn's interest in Nissan and Japan racing to ensure that Chainese companies weren't buying up Japanese ones.
But now is out the game.
Yeah, I think we can't necessarily rule out at this point that Fox Khan will completely leave the picture here. I think this is a case of you know, real genuine interests. You have an executive at Fox KHT who's overseeing their ev you know, initiatives who is actually a former Nissan executive, which sort of adds to the intrigue. You also have a case of just a very you know, complex deal, and it's very unclear at this juncture what
exactly is going to happen between Honda and Nissan. If anything, you do have a case of a Nissan really needing some help and effectively needing a rescue by all accounts, likely some role that the Japanese government is playing here and trying to kind of nudge these two companies together, but real questions about you know, how exactly this is going to work out. And also another company in France and Reno, who also is going to come into play. So watch this space in twenty twenty five.
I get no respite for you when it comes to deal coverage. Craig very briefly China and the week spot for both.
Yeah, absolutely, I think both of these companies have been shrinking in that market. I think there are a questions about their long term future there as well as a lot of Western companies. You know what exactly is is there going to be in terms of room for international companies given the desire for from China to really dominate this industry and also dominate it's on market.
Crazy down.
We thank you as always, Welcome back to New Meg Technology.
I'm Calin Hid in New York. We check in on one.
Key reflection of risk sentiment over the course of this week. Bitcoin at one point on Tuesday exceeding one hundred and eight thousand dollars per token, and now we dive down to about ninety seven thousand dollars level that we're only off about five percent since the trading days on Sunday, remember the rest of the wicked this trades twenty four to seven.
But we are seeing just money come out for the first time. In fact, after fifteen.
Straight days of money going into those spot bitcoin ets, we had a pause and a record outflow on Thursday, six eighty million dollars. People start to digest what higher for longer? Just two rate cuts come twenty twenty five really does mean for an ultimately record run that we've
seen for bitcoin since the election of Trump. Now we want to just dig into is what some of the excibits have been saying our investment management ceo, for example, Kathy Wood joining Bloomberg The Close yesterday to discuss her outlook for bitcoin in twenty twenty five.
She also talked about her bets on Tesla.
And how much the incoming Trump administration will impact the Tesla story and in particular autonomous driving.
Just take a listen.
Well.
I think one of the changes again back to regulation is the likelihood that autonomous mobility, so robotaxis are going to be regulated not on the state level, so fifty different regulators, but on the federal level. After all, autonomous vehicles will travel from state to states, so it really should be federal legislation. So I think that will speed
up the move towards autonomous taxi networks. And I do believe for that reason, investors analysts are starting to model out what that will mean to the Tesla model.
It will take their.
Gross margins from mid teens right now up into the sixties if we are right, because robotaxis and autonomous taxi network is a SaaS model. I think the other thing that has happened is more and more people are seeing videos of the humanoid robot doing all sorts of things that we didn't think were possible as the dexterity in its hands get so much better.
Oh, Katy, I do want to pivot here and ask you about some of the market action, particularly over the last few months, and particularly when it comes to crypto.
I'm sure you've seen.
The big run up in bitcoin above briefly above one hundred grand, now back below that today, but certainly phenomenal run on a year to date base system where it was just a few months ago. Here do you still sort of see bitcoin really hitting some of those lofty milestones that you've talked about before, you know, I mean, one hundred thousand is still a long way from a million. I do kind of wonder how much further you think this could actually go.
Well, what's interesting about bitcoin today, Now that we're going to get more regulatory green lights, we're seeing institutional investors focus on this new asset class, and as they're learning about it, they're saying, wait a minute, this new asset class, or this component of a new asset class, Bitcoin is going to reach twenty one million units out there, twenty one million bitcoin out there at its peak and no more from there on, Where are we now, we're all
ready above nineteen and a half million units, and so if institutional investors are looking at this new asset class more seriously, and bitcoin is really the first of its kind in a new asset class, and we believe the biggest opportunity of them all, they must consider an allocation and so supply demand. They're doing the arithmetic, and we see a million to a million and a half by twenty thirty that the probability of that has increased because of institutional.
Some fundamentals there from Kathywood of Ook Investment Management. Let's stick on Bitcoin, the crypto ecosystem a little bit more as we've seen of course it falling from its record highs and having impact on some of the smaller coins too, or following the hoky signals coming from the Fed, Matt Hans in the house Bitwise Asset Management Chief investment Officer Matt just we saw the fundamental reasons why Kathywood is still bullish into twenty twenty five and beyond.
But should anyone be worrying.
About the sudden weakness that we've seen in the last few trading days.
No, it's great to be on I think the weakness we've seen over the last few days is a healthy pullback. If you look at the crypto market big picture, it's run up substantially since the election. We saw a lot of leverage build up in the system, and this is a natural washing out of leverage. There's been about two billion dollars of forced liquidations over the last two days. This has happened in crypto since its very earliest period. We need to reset the leverage levels and then we'll
build from there. But the long term drivers are still intact. We're still in a strong bull market. I think Kathy is right about where this is going. We feel exactly the same at bitwise.
I mean, you are someone who has seen some highs and lows. You understand the volatility and the asset class map, but I'm interested in it. Who is coming to your asset management company? Oh, we've got some exciting music playing on set that thrilled to hear about what you think in terms of institutional money coming now bit wise as way, is it still a flood of retail and high net worth individuals?
What are you see in terms of changes?
Yeah, it's really been both so far this year.
But I'm aligned with Kathy and thinking that the institutions have now started moving in in size. When you saw the fifteen straight days of inflows into the Bitcoin ETF's post election, I believe that was institutional capital at bit wise. Every year we survey professional investors and ask them what's keeping them out of the market, and for six straight years they said a lack of regulatory clarity.
Well, that regulatory.
Clarity is coming and that's open the floodgates to institutions. And I would just say, I think most people underestimate the size of this blackrock. Just came out and said most people should have one to two percent allocation to bitcoin. There's one hundred trillion dollars of institutional assets out there. Two percent is a lot of investment that still has to happen. We're going to start seeing that really come in in twenty twenty five.
Into bitcoin still predominantly. How is this going to broaden ow map?
Yeah, you're already seeing it broadened out.
Actually, a lot of people were worried about the Ethereum ETFs, for instance, which launched this summer and had tepid inflows. But over the last month or so you've seen billions of dollars flow into those products. Again, the things that have happened in crypto in the past keep happening. Historically, most people enter crypto through bitpoint and then they discover Ethereum and then they think about Solana. There's no reason to assume that the institutions that came into bitpoint won't
move on to other assets in the future. In fact, I think in twenty twenty five you're going to see an explosion of interest in index based strategies that give diversified exposure to crypto. Of course, something we've been doing at bitwise since twenty seventeen when we pioneered that concept. I think twenty twenty five is when that sort of becomes a mainstream way to allocate to this space, the same way it is to stocks and bonds and real estate and everything else.
You were talking about how the regulatory picture has going to become clearer. We've seen a new AI cryptos are announced. It's someone who's invested in bitwise, David Sacks.
How much have you been in touch with David? How much have you been.
Ultimately able to steer the conversation from a bitwise perspective.
Yeah, you know, David is a good friend of bit Wise, has been an investor for a long period of time. The reason it's so important to have someone like David Sacks in that position is these two industries are critical to America's future, and they've really been constrained and challenged by regulatory you know, overreach, regulation by enforcement. I think the market probably doesn't understand how fast these industries can move if there is regulatory clarity. So you know, bit
wise is involved in Washington. We talked to folks in Washington all the time. It's great to have people who understand crypto now taking office.
I'm just excited to see what happens from here.
We went back to something you just said that things happen again and again when it comes to crypto. The dominance of bitcoin was your pursuit of thought. But what happens again and again is that all boats rise, and
not all boats are great. And we see meme coins coming out thick and fast, being spun up, and there's fun and there's exuberance, and there's an air of being at the seat of the table at blackjack sometimes and I'm not taking that away from the market participants, but how much is there a worry that mean coins are going to become something that do ultimately hurt those who don't understand them enough.
The trading nature of it.
All, Yeah, I think that's worth being concerned about. And again I think the answer there is better regulatory clarity. We've sort of taken a hands off approach. We're not going to touch this, which isn't the right way to help investors. We need reasonable rules that allow crypto to thrive but separates the good from the bad. So it's absolutely true investors moving into cryptos should be careful. There's a big difference between bitcoin and the latest AI driven
meme coin. Folks need to understand that. So, yeah, we worry about this. People need to understand why mean coins exist. I agree it's a citing part of the market, but it shouldn't be a huge part of your portfolio.
And let's just talk about the intersection of tradfi as people would call it, and crypto and how we're seeing a fusing together real world assets is something people talk a lot about ultimately going onto the blockchain of some sort. But Matt, there's also new offerings being spun up, whether it's in the options market, whether just other ways institutionally minded players can access the overall ecosystem. Is that progressing and maturing the way you want to see it?
Yeah? Absolutely.
We've been talking about crypto as a new asset class for a number of years, and a new asset class needs all of those pieces to thrive. It needs options, it needs ETFs, it needs ETF options, it needs futures, it needs other derivatives. It needs institutional players taking part in this ecosystem. We've been checking every box as an industry.
So people who are skeptical that this is going to be a major new asset class that stands alongside stock and bonds and commodities in real estate, you just need to look at that track record. So from my perspective, it's been beautiful to see we've made a hugely bored in twenty twenty four, and I think that's going to accelerate in twenty twenty five.
Now, Hagen a bit wise Asset Management say well, happy holidays, thank you. Coming up, we'll discuss AI agents and how they're revolutionizing customer service. Catherine Costarera is with us from Creatio.
This is Bloomberg Technology. The EU has given unconditional approval to Invidia to buy the Israeli startup run Ai, which developed software for handling AI computing resources and has been a closet collaborator with Invidias's twenty twenty and the European Commission stated the takeover didn't pose any competition threats despite Nvidia's position as a quote leading producer of key hardware
for AI applications used in the EU and beyond. Now, let's just take a little bit look about the applications of AI agent to KI so all you're going to hear in twenty twenty five, Let's bring in an expert there for Catherine Costerramer, CEO and founder of the no code and software automation company Creatio, valued at more than
one point two billion dollars. You've been raising funds last time we spoke, and you're taking on some of the heavyweights that are publicly traded Salesforce service now and I'm interested as to how the agent force of salesforce is something that you've already been doing at Creatio or having to play catch upon.
Hello, Carlian, So, first of all, thank you very much for having me. Very excited to be here today and very excited to talk about the future of enterprise software. I can tell you that I've never been as excited about the industry as I am now, even when the Internet was developing. Even at that time, I wasn't as
excited as MTA. Because the CRM and workflow automation software, no code platforms that Creation Creato is building is going to look completely different than three to five years from now. Very exciting times.
Okay, so it looks different because already you've been helping basically people who can't code code, but now agents is that a co pilot model just makes things even more bespoke. Have you not been deploying that already in previous iterations? Is now the market is caught onto it?
Yeah, brilliant. So Creata has been AI native. And the biggest difference of Creative from you mentioned Salesforce, for example, is that we combine in AI command center all different patterns of AI. It's obviously generative AI like AI skills, it's agentic AI. It would be predictive AI, it would be prescriptive AI. So dependent on the use case again you mentioned service, it could be sales automation, marketing automation.
We're going to be doing the particular use cases combining all different patterns of AI, and as it is a native it's not an additional module on top of it. It's not like we're announced CREATAI as a step traditional module and we charge for it. It's actually quite an opposite. We're not charging for it. It's the creational platform because AI is the central part of the.
Platform ultimately, with everyone offering some sort of form of agent and a lot of it helping with coding. How do you fend your territory even if you're saying you know you're not having to pay extra for the generative AI or new AI applications is in your heart, But once others have got that pricing sorted and they're already in the rooms of your customers, how do you send the territory?
Yeah, brilliant. So, first of all, let's start with saying that what creation AI delivers is to a part of the equation, if you will. From one end, it's no code development, as you exactly correctly said, so with AI building the applications on our no code platform. And the second part is using AI in the end user use cases like marketing, automation, sales, automation, service automation you need. So the combination of those two this is the biggest
power that Creation delivers. And again being a native it's not a separate module on top of the existing platform. It is the platform itself. So the experience of a user is completely different. The experience that we're building with the user is creating for the user is not the user learning how to use the software. It's AI creation. AI is learning how to collaborate with this particular end
user of the application. Because as we all know, English is the future program and language, and basically the collaboration between the user like yourself or myself, who is the workflow and CRM software. In the future, it's going to be using the natural language, using the natural language, and will be asking to create clothes, to create new digital campaigns. And it's very simple, very simple interface that is embedded in all the other applications that you're.
Using as well. I'm really interested in adoption ultimately.
That seems to be a bit of a bottleneck. We're hearing of late that there's seen a plateauing of employees using the tools that have been invested in by the CEOs and the LIGHT because they're worried that they're being deemed lazy in some way or they're not getting the training that's necessary. But we also know that really to see real creativity, you just need to get this into users' hands and see how they adopt it.
What have you seen a Creatio? How have people been using it?
And continuing to yes and listen, Thank you very much for asking this question. There are two aspects of it. So the first aspect is everyone is building and developing the new AI skills, and Creation does exactly the same way, expanding the library of AI skills, meaning we expand the number of use cases that can be covered using AI.
And again, the future, if you ask me about twenty twenty five, the future is that the user can do any CRM use case in Creatio AI without actually opening any other interfaces, just one Creation AI interpace and collaboration in English. So building those AI skills, it takes a little bit of time, but Creation is definitely in a front runner here. But from the other side, let's talk about this the pricing part of it, because in a case of Creation, Creation AI is literally the platform itself.
So all our users who have the base licenses of Creatio, they already have access to creation AI, while in other cases with our competitors, they do need to acquire to buy additional licenses in order to start this adoption process. So partially, I guess again I don't know exactly the salesforce numbers, but I would guess that would be partially the reason why their adoption is not as fast as they would expect to predict.
And just to clarify, it's not salesforce as numbers, it was actually some numbers put out though by Slack that we were looking across various different industry groups, across various different AI adoptions and different tools.
But it was great to speak with you. Thank you for coming on happy holidays.
Catherine Kostueva, founding CEO of Creatio Teams does union members they're striking against Amazon for a second day, just as shoppers make their final Christmas purchases. Groups of workers at seven facilities in California, New York, and Annoyed Georgia are
demanding better wages and working conditions. Amazon says it's filed unfair labor practices charges against the union as the Teams claims a strike expansion is coming, but it makes about day has been across this story, and Matt, how much impact is it actually having.
Well, the best we can tell, not a whole lot. These are seven facilities, and that sounds like a lot, but you know, against Amazon's base of something like a thousand depots in the US, there's a lot of whigger room.
They've got to send packages through other facilities, you know, especially as the teams have been making noise about a potential strike for more than a week now, so they had some advance noticed this was coming, and they knew which facilities, So I wouldn't expect this to derail their operation at all.
But what about derailing the future path of unionization will broadly, Matt, because all of this is about teamsters trying to lure over more people to join.
I see, that's right, and.
On that front, I think we'll see. But this is definitely the biggest action to date targeting Amazon by US labor in the United States. You know, there's been union drives at specific warehouses before, no one has ever tried what the teamsters are doing, which is organizing you know, across their delivery depots and contract workers and Amazon Blue
badge employees themselves. So this is a pretty big effort. Amazon, for their part, says it's a lot of pr so far, but you know, they certainly have the teamsters full attention now and they're taking it seriously.
Look, other companies are being affected by strike action at the moment as well, Starbucks being one of them. And I'm interested as to how these leaders of the businesses are looking towards the next administration because many workers feel represented, but many feel that perhaps some things said by Trump and Musk around unions have been pretty averse to them.
Yeah, so I think union union folks are pretty sober on the reality of the changing administration.
Right.
The National Labor Relations Sport has been a very labor friendly body under the Biden administration. That's likely to change in the Trump years. But that said, workers have said, listen, this is all about developing support on the factory floor, you know, among your barista pals, among people packing packages, right, and that's not necessarily been a change. It's all about what kind of support they can drum up among the workers, rather than does DC have their back.
Matt Day, We thank you Amazon, cha is still training higher amid some of the strike action.
We really appreciate you joining on it now.
Let's just get back to the markets a little bit more broadly now, because it is a volatile day, folks, and unsurprisingly so because it's triple witching. What does that mean options expiring? It just adds that level of volatility.
As we come towards the close of the week, we're up one point six percent now, and then that's that one hundred we were in negative territory to start, trade people trying to brush off some of the perhaps over movement, over reaction to the FED signaling there'll be but two cuts.
Coming in twenty twenty five.
Crypto, though, is still underwater ninety six thousand, well off the one hundred and eight thousand level.
But boy, what a run.
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