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The US government will not take a stake in TikTok, but a deal with US investors is close, with Oracle powering the tech as the cloud computing company shuffles its CEOs, plus T.
Mobile announcers and changing its leadership too. We sit down with the CEO, Mike Siebert and his successor, sereny Go Polan, and the.
Trump administration plans to raise the H one B application fee to one hundred thousand dollars. We'll discuss the implications for workers in the tech industry, but for.
Now, we look at the broader market said, and we turn a tide. We actually push back into the greens, a new record high for announced that one hundred and twenty seventh record hi for the S and P five hundred. Even though we started today in the red, so sentiment whipsawing little as we look ahead to federal reserves speak this week, inflation data as well, but the sentiment is sourd and crypto We're going to get into that a little bit more in the show progresses.
We're down two percent on Bitcoin, even more on e What are you looking at?
Okay, I'm going to Oracle as our big mover and our top story being TikTok.
We're up three percent in the session, but.
As you can see over the course of last week and this morning session, a lot of movement in Oracle that's pushed towards record highs. We now have a better understanding from the White House on the proposed technology structure for a TikTok deal in the US and the investors behind it, and it is Oracle at the harder that. We also learned this morning that Oracle is going to have two new co CEOs and then just a little bit of carrow. We're going to get more details on that.
Let's start with TikTok. More details are coming out on the deal taking shape to sell TikTok to a consortium of American investors. US officials say they're confident China has approved the deal, under which Oracle would recreate and then provide security for a new US version of TikTok's algorithm.
Bloombers.
Kat Wagner who covers TikTok for US joints. The more there have been a lot of headlines this morning. What do we need to know about the status of TikTok in the United States?
Well, I think you pointed out the algorithm has been a key sort of sticking point in this entire process because under US law, byte Dance, the owner of TikTok, is not allowed to have any say in the algorithm or the technology of this new US version, and Chinese
law says you can't export this valuable technology. So it seems that they figured out some type of workaround where Oracle, as you mentioned, in this group of US investors will license the algorithm from Byteedance for a short time while they essentially recreate it and make it a brand new version, a brand new algorithm that's US trained, in US controlled, and then that will be what powers this new US
version of TikTok. But again, this is all sort of a very unique, one of a kind deal, and so so while the framework has been announced, we are still waiting on formal approvals of this deal from leaders in Beijing.
Yeah, and President Trump saying that she has approved the TikTok deal. They just have to get it signed, Kirt, There's still so many more questions. Indeed, who are the US participants, Who are the people who are going to control There are new names being thrown in the ring by the President of the course of the weekend.
Yeah, so we know about Oracle of course, as being sort of the most notable name in this consortium. Silver Lake Partners was another that was I believe unveiled today. We had previously reported that andreesent Horowitz, the venture capital firm, we have reported at Bloomberg that they are going to be involved, But it sounds like it might still be sort of taking shape a little bit here. And you know, Carolina, as we mentioned this, just because the President says, hey,
we have a deal and it will be signed. This has been such a contentious issue, contentious deal over many many years at this point that I think until everyone truly signs on the dotted line, we have to assume this is still being sort of negotiated and worked out in real time. So it seems we're the closest we've ever been. But again, until that deal is formally formally signed, I think we have to assume things are still moving a little bit.
Bluemos, Kat Wagner, we thank you for the latest. Let's stick with one of the key players in the TikTok story, and it's Oracle, because the company has also just announced that its promoted Claim mcgork Mike Cecilia to the roles of co CEOs, replacing Saffrakatz, who has led the company since twenty fourteen and moves onto a board role. Let's bring in Bloomberg's Brody Ford, who covers Oracle, and it is a big change at the top.
It is right.
Saffra Katz has been one of the faces of Oracle for about a decade now, and folks familiar with Oracle's cloud business, which has become so important. Well, no, Claim mcgor k has led that unit for a while. The fact that he is being elevated in this way maybe isn't a shocker. The timing is they were both promoted Clay and Mike to president in June. Now all of a sudden they're becoming CEOs and so it's been a busy couple of months at Oracle.
If you speak to anyone that's involved in this massive AI infrastructure build out right now, Clay's name comes up quite a lot. I was interested in reading your story that they are co CEOs, but the comp is different between the two of them.
Can you just explain that a bit, Bradie, Right.
They're co CEOs, they have the same title, but one of them is going to make one hundred and fifty million more in stock awards, and so that doesn't exactly sound equal to me.
Right.
What we know about Oracle right now is that the cloud infrastructure business is set to become their largest business by an incredible margin, and so the person who leads that unit is about to make significantly more money. Folks inside the company describe the dynamic to me as Clay is a kind of run through a brick wall to get something done engineering leader, whereas Mike Cecilia is more
of the adult in the room. Any Ways, it mirrors a dynamic that Larry Ellison and Saffracats have had for years.
It's interesting that Clay has got a board level as well, whereas and has for time, whereas perhaps Mike hasn't brody. It's notable that Suffracatz is still going to be there, and you also put the context in your story that she wasn't always totally behind the pivot towards data center is the pivot towards cloud offering.
Absolutely. She was in the earlier days of cloud a little skeptical, right. I mean, she came up in the era where they were selling databases on prem for you know, margins that are some of the highest you can get on any product, and then comes data center infrastructure, where you're making pretty low gross margins and putting up billions
at the forefront. She was a little anxious about this, and so as Oracle makes that their main business, it's not a shocker to me that we see a changing of the guard.
Brady, real quick.
You broke the story Friday that Oracles netted a deal with Meta, and I think, as you put it on air, Larry Ellison can't stop winning, right.
Well, we all know that Oracle had this massive deal with open Ai, and the worry was that are they going to be a one trick pony? Are they going to have really bad customer concentration. We broke on Friday that they have another twenty billion deal with Meta seemingly coming down the pipeline, and so it shows that Oracle is seriously being taken as a provider of this kind of AI infrastructure.
And a quick note that I'm now saying Mike Cecilia on the board as well as Clay, so both taking exciting roles.
We really appreciate it.
Ed Yeah, management Mayhem Monday, a lot of fun coming up. T Mobile announces a change in leadership as well with Mike see if it set to depart the CEO role. We speak with Mike and the successor, Shrini Gopalan, that's coming up next.
You do not want to miss this conversation. This is bloombag Tech.
T Mobile has announced that Mike's SAE it is set to transition away from as well as CEO well to stem a newly created vice chair management position set to take over as CEO November. The first is Strenie Goplan, Tmobile's current COO, and please to say they welcome us here in the studio both for Bloomberg's radio and TV audiences. Might I start with you, why is now the right time for you to hand over the reins in this way?
Because Serenie's ready. You know, T mobile does it differently. We believe in thoughtful succession. I recruited Sereni to the COO position almost a year ago, and he has killed it, and he has an incredibly inspiring vision for the future.
And I also wanted to pick a moment when the company.
Is firing on all cylinders, because I think you should do succession amidst success. And so we picked our moment because Serenie's ready. He's the person to lead us into the future. And the company has put wind in his sales so that the team can continue to deliver outsize success going forward.
And SERENI, Okay, the vision, the exciting vision for the future. How much is that about five or how much is that about the the real expertise you have in a more mature market having built that.
With dewicha telecom.
Look, when I look back up my career over the last thirty years, it feels like I've been preparing for this day acause what I've done over the last thirty years is really developed some real expertise at driving technology driven transformation, whether that's digital data, AI, fiber and networks. And that's really what the next stage of growth at
T Mobile is going to be. It's going to be about bringing together this incredible culture, brand, everything that Mike's built, the great value we stand for together with amazing technology, making it easy for customers to do stuff, giving them a great experience, and America's best network. So there are no trade offs. You get all of that together at the same time.
At T Mobile, Shaney, I'll start with you if I may. You know, in any life cycle of a company, there comes a point where it's just more mature, right, there's this corporate s curve, And so I think it's a really sensible place to start by asking you what you're going to do differently from Mike, given that the company is in a different stage to what it was over the period that might let it look.
At T Mobile, we don't believe in kind of sitting on our hands and kind of waiting to see how the industry evolves. We define the industry. We define how this goes forward. Mike and the team have already been talking a lot about the transformation we want to drive about bringing America's best network together with great value, not just that taking the technology we have available today across AI, across our digital footprint, and building the best experience for
T Mobile customers. So what you should expect is a lot of continuation of changing the industry for the good of the customer, and that means a continual transformation. So this is not a business that likes sort of sitting steady and kind of watching the dividends and growth come in. We're there to change the life of our customers, to change this industry for the better, and you should expect to see a lot more of that.
Mike.
When I was reading up on a shrine ahead of our conversation at Apple a couple of weeks ago, I didn't know that this was going to happen. But you know, there's a lot of focuses on his time in Europe. How much was that a big factor for you, because again it's a different market there in Europe to hear in the United States.
Well, what was a factor for me was just what kind of an executive he is. Streeney is tenacious, he is hard charging, he is competitive, he's customer loving, and he attracts talent and he's got a vision for the future of our company that's exciting. So I've known this for years because we've been friends for a long time, we've been co workers on the board of directors of
T Mobile. I've seen how he thinks, and so a year ago I convinced him to give all that europe stuff up and come to the US as our chief operating officer, very much with this day in mind, because I knew he was the right person to lead the company into the future.
You've been bold, For example, Mike, I think of you being the first one to strike that deal with Starling, to think about director device satellite communication going forward.
Just how is that partnership given you a competitive edge? Are you seeing people come on board because of the changes you made?
Well?
T Mobiles an innovator, you know, not just direct to sell. With Starlink, we created the home broadband five G category, which millions of people benefit from nationwide. We continue, as Srina was saying, to redefine what it means to compete in this category and then watch while everybody follows. That's why we're the world's most successful telecommunications company. So look on the on the T satellite. I mean, it's just
been fantastic. Our dream when I announced that with Elon back in twenty twenty two, was to end dead zones, the end of dead zones, and today T Mobile customers can connect to six hundred satellites, the only one that connects your phone automatically if you fall off a terrestrial network, but soony for.
Example, on first one or to do list might be the boost mobile is going to have potential offering because of the new spectrum that Elon Then's got with Starlink. How do you can consider the future evolution of direct to consumer satellite.
When we start off with this vision of putting an end to dead zones, right, that's what we were going for. We're delighted that Starlink has now acquired more spectrum makes the service even better. Together, what we want to do is live true to that mission of putting an end to dead zones. As far as the competitive world is concerned,
we love competition. We love switching. I mean we've always sweed as said this, the more jumpalls the better because there's only one place that you can get the best network, best value, and best experience. So we love competition. Anything that stimulates even more switching is a good thing.
Shiny.
A lot of questions that we get from the audience director, you are about fiber and so I would summarize T mobile strategy today little tiny pieces of M and A. How are you going to approach that going forward? You're just going to build this out yourself.
Look, when we approach a new business, right, we approach it with a mix of conviction and humility. We're convinced that our brand, the distribution we bring, what we stand for, our culture of kind of smashing through customer pain points and really attacking incumbents is equally applicable to fiber as it was to fixed swiless. We're also humble enough to realize that we don't have a set of capabilities like local zoning and permitting, and we partner for that. And
that's the logic for the JVS. The vision for fiber is not small. I think we've clearly showed our hand. We like being first to fiber, we like being a pure play fiber player, and we will continue to scale that business. On the acquisition questions, we'll see what's available. We'll take a hard nose look allocate capital well. But we do like a pure play fiber business and we think there's a lot of scale possible for that.
And ED just remember that we're the leading broadband growth company in America even before the fiber pieces that you're now asking about, because five G broadband has become a phenomenon and overall, T Mobile has led broadband growth in this company, in this country for thirteen quarters in a row.
And in a SMA matter of a few years. We're now three years, We're now the fifth largest is Spen country from a standing star.
Hey gents, you make a good double act, but we're short on time. So Mike, I'm going to ask my final question to you. You're still in the role till November, first critical period of.
The year for handset sales.
What's the data telling you early about iPhone seventeen. What is going to do for T Mobile the behaviors of your existing in new customers.
Well, it's only been three days, but we're killing it. You know, last year we had an all time record new iPhone introduction. This year we're beating that by double digits, and not just in terms of activating phones for our customers, but in terms of switchers, switchers to T Mobile who are coming at the moment that they get a new
iPhone also up double digits this this this weekend. And so you know, we've had a great launch, and you know, a new phone is a great time for Americans to ask themselves do they have the right provider switches.
What was the call that Shriney made when we spoke at Apple a couple of weeks ago, Mike Siebert, Tim Moo's outgoing CEO, Shriny Gopalan incoming.
Just terrific conversation. Thank you to you.
Both stock markets push higher, but let's focus on crypto because we're actually seeing a draw down significantly. We've seen about one and a half billion dollars in bullish wages. Those bullish bets have iniquidated on Monday, particularly across Eve, we saw it falling the hardest, nearly half a billion dollars worth of leverage a long positions. We understand pulled out of that second largest token, But is this a
sign of just the changing of the guard. Are we questioning some of those theories around digital asset treasuries in particular?
Now a we just taking some money off the table.
Edd Let's get more on the broader markets, particularly on tech. Eric Bailey, wealth manager at Stewart Partners, and I find what Caroline was outlining there really interesting because right now you can either pick out that data set, you can say that equity markets continue to push records or hold at records. Do you have a summary of what the sentiment in the market is right now.
Eric, Yeah, thanks having me. Clearly, the risk trade is on. Investors are taking risk and we've really seen this since I would say late July where the growth indexes took over value. Right we had that drop in April and value was kind of leading the markets, and that's really shifted and you've seen growth equity perform extremely well. And that's day to day. It keeps going higher. So you have the Russell one thousand growth indexes up I think
over seventeen percent right now. You're to date and of late with the news and after earnings, growth is clearly you know where investors want to be. They're comfortable taking risk right now.
Apple is up four percent in this session and the reason that that's notable is that it actually believe it or not most of the way through September. Takes it into positive territory for twenty twenty five. We talked a lot in the middle of the year about the contribution of the mag seven names to the market overall, but as a moment, time to do that at this part of the year.
What do you make of it?
Yeah, it's impressive, right, you mentioned Apple, I mean that stock not long ago was really you know, investors were checked out, analysts were negative, people were questioning Apple what they were doing. And now, as you said, it's positive on the ear just an incredible move. And the MAG seven even Tesla I name, that is still down for the year, but it's had a very big move here the last several weeks. And so the MAG seven is clearly leading to markets right now. You're seeing that day after.
Day, Eric, Eric, should you stay committed to that?
Then?
Just the trend has been relentlessly high since April, but the valuation story just gets harder and harder to swallow.
I agree.
Yeah.
As a financial advisor and I have lots of positions in these names, it is concerning because the valuations are just so high, and you ask, can this momentum continue? Our investors is going to continue to buy these names? And yeah, I mean, you don't see any science that's going to weaken. The trends are so powerfully on the upside. So I think you hold them. But clearly, you know, new money going in, I would be cautious because these valuations are so.
High, and so you perhaps diversify, you don't re up your bets. If they've been winning of late, but his earning is going to be the tell? Is it going to be geopolitics that the tell what ultimately makes us question how valuable some of these companies are.
Yeah, we'll see. I mean right now, our earnings after the second quarters certainly are leading the these names, and some of the big announcements right with Oracle, which you guys have been talking about all day, clearly tremendous momentum with the announcements they've made in AI, and so I do think it's earnings that's going to lead them higher.
As for investors, yeah, I think you got to you hold your positions, but you look and see how overweight or how how much you know, how large a position do I have in these names? And they are you comfortable, you know, having this bigger risk risk position in your portfolio.
In the context of corporate earnings and tech. You know, the signal from certain names is that kind of soft data set or hard data set even that the people are looking for.
I'm putting you on the.
Spot, but we get Micron in the next thirty six hours. You know, they might tell us something big picture about the direction of travel for AI infrastructure is that still like the watch item for a lot of desks.
Well, I think the broader, the whole sector of semiconductors, which Micron is in, overall us performed well. You have seen certain names get hit, but overall the group I track the SMAH index, it's done very well. And so yeah, Micron is certainly going to be important. And I know there was some positive analyst calls I want to say today on Micron. So yeah, that's a big name and that could shield the market to go higher if they have a good result.
Well, so we in the course of this conversation we've said how remarkable this is, the timing of it, the sentiment in the market. Give us the Eric Bailey prediction for what happens in the balance of twenty twenty five.
You know, I've been calling for a little bit of a pullback and I've been wrong. I expected that at the at these valuations we would see some of some kind of correction, you know, since that April drop, we have just been on a chair. So I do expect the markets to get a bumpier, but I don't see it being a long term trend. I think any correction, buyers will step in and we're going to continue on this run. It's going to take a lot to get this market to get negative.
I think Bailey from Stuart Partners, appreciate your time today and the push forward.
Welcome back to Bloomberg Tech.
We're thinking very much about the news story on one hundred thousand dollars H one V application fees and in the market, I'm looking at Infosis. These are the US listed shares of Infos, the Indian technology company. Up modestly in this Monday session, but a big drop Friday when Bloomberg first reported that one hundred thousand dollars figure. There's a lot of emphasis on the IT and outsourcing names out there. There was big downward pressure in Indian listed
technology names overnight. There's also a big scramble for American technology companies to understand how this impacts their ability to hire and what it means for existing H one B visa holders. For more on the state of H one B visas and immigration in the US, he banner ericson Immigration Group Partner joins us now. The confusion was when this first was confirmed Friday, there wasn't clarity on whether it applied to new applicants H one B or existing
as well. Then over the weekend, the White House clarified that it was just new applicants.
But can we just.
Start by you reflecting on your weekend, the discussions you've had with clients in the technology sector, how you've managed this process.
Certainly so you're absolutely right. Initially there was not clarification as to whether or not the one hundred thousand dollars fee would apply to existing H ONEB visa holders or new applicants. There was also confusion about whether or not this was a one time fee versus a continuous annual fee, And what essentially happened for the first twenty four hours
following the proclamation was pretty close to chaos. We had several clients who are very well known tech companies who either contacted H one B employees who happened to be outside of the United States at the time the proclamation came out, asking them to try their best to come back before the one hundred thousand dollars fee took effect.
And then also we had a lot of companies, not just the companies that we work with, but very well known companies in the market tell their employees to wait before engaging in any international travel until we know more. There was also instances of international flights that were getting ready to take off where several passengers requested to deplane specifically because they wanted to avoid their companies being charged one hundred thousand dollars fee if they attempted to re
enter after international trip. So, like I said, the first twenty four hours were extremely confusing, and we did the best that we could to provide the guidance to that the companies need in order to communicate to their employees with what very little we knew.
HEBA one hundred thousand dollars is the fee from this point on? What is the strategy for America's biggest technology companies and also smaller startups? Do you think that it's a manageable fee and what is the kind of process from here? Do they just slow down hiring in the H one B category?
One hundred thousand dollars fee for an H ONEB visa petition is not manageable at all for startups, for small businesses, even for mid sized businesses. I think that this is going to make it extremely difficult, if not nearly impossible, for startups, small businesses or mid sized businesses to hire the talent that they need in order to be able to compete on a global scale. For larger tech companies that have more resources, I think that the ability to manage a fee of this amount is not going to
be as difficult as it is for startups. But I want everyone to remember that a lot of these extremely successful international companies were once themselves startups, and so any policy that makes it harder for American startups or small businesses to innovate is going to impact our competitiveness down the line.
What's been extraordinary for many has been just seeing where the outsize impact has had who it's had upon, and in particular, it's people coming from India, it's people coming from China.
Heber.
The argument coming from the administration is that H one B visa process wasn't being used as it should be.
Have you let any evidence of that?
I have no evidence of that. I think that there are quite a few checks and balances built into the H and B process as it stands today, and that's actually inclusive of several levels of scrutiny as well as extensive background checks, and there is prima facia evidence basically, in other words, preliminary evidence that has to be submitted along with the initial application for an H one B visa in order for that application to be successful in the first place. And so I haven't seen any evidence
of misuse. I think that it's a really critical tool for our companies, both tech and in various other industries in order for them to stay competitive. I also think it's important to point out that people normally associate the H one B visa with tech companies, which is very true, but there's a variety of different industries that rely on the H one B visa, including research institutions, universities, and healthcare.
And so this has the potential to really impact a lot of different American institutions, assuming that this goes forward and is not paused by litigation.
Now, we did see that there was an update coming from the Administration that potentially doctors would have a carve out from one hundred thousand.
Dollars in terms of a fee hibber.
But let's go back to California, the state that's most impacted according to our data, and indeed Texas, New York, New Jersey the companies that are based there, and then we look at the as you say, the industries, professors, scientists, technology services, manufacturing, information. These companies, what do they do.
Do they hire outside of the US to be able to make up for the talent shortfall while the training goes on in the US, or is there any idea that there is enough talent here to satisfy the needs.
That's one of the concerns resulting from this fee. The concern is that a lot of companies would choose to either pause hiring, in particular international hiring, but also may choose to shift their operations abroad, and that is going to have downstream effects for the company as well as US workers that work for the company. So that's one
of the concerns. The other concern, as you mentioned, is that there's a variety of different companies that rely on the H one B visa, and so there is language in the proclamation that cars out exceptions for an individual who the government deems is in the national interest of the US. However, what we still need to understand is the way in which these arguments requesting a national interest
exception are actually going to be treated and adjudicated. As it stands now, the evidentiary standards for successfully making that argument are actually quite high. So I don't think that the language that cars out an exception is going to help any of the concerns that the industry has.
Heber Bloomberg's reported at length that the expectation is immediate legal challenges to this executive order, and they note in that reporting that Congress has traditionally set in a legislative or qualified way fees and other associated costs. Could you just explain where you stand today, where the precedent is to challenge this and any action that you might take on behalf of clients to challenge it.
I think that anybody who's getting ready to make a legal challenge to this is going to incorporate a few key grounds in their argument. One is that it is
the responsibility of Congress to make immigration laws set immigration fees. Also, the President is basing this proclamation on a law that does grant the President brought authority in terms of restricting entry of foreign nationals into the United States if there is a national security concern or if that individual's entry to the US is somehow detrimental to the US.
However, there has to be.
Some substantive factual evidence in support of that, which I would imagine folks who seek to challenge this proclamation will argue.
Does not exist.
And so those are the grounds that I'm going to be watching out for in terms of the upcoming legal challenges. One thing that I do want to note, however, is that the recent Supreme Court decision and Trump versus Cossa, made it very difficult for a single federal judge to issue a nationwide injunction pausing some sort of presidential action
from taking effect. And so one thing I know that I'm going to be watching out for is basically whether or not somebody chooses to file a class action lawsuit, how broad that class is defined, and whether or not a federal judge certifies it.
Hey Manver, incredibly busy. We really thank you for your time today. Ericson Immigration Group Now interesting me. Our CEO Kathy Wood weighed in on the issue of H one B visas and the fees, saying the changes are part of a negotiating process, actually predicts that it will actually end up being loosened. Just take a listen to what you said the TV earlier.
This is part of President Trump's negotiating process, and I think he's negotiating quite intensively. Right now with India. I think India would be have the biggest impact here in terms of, you know, workers in the United States.
So I think this is a little.
Bit like tariffs, and it's going to capture all the headlines and it's going to really take the oxygen out of the room because there's a lot of really good fundamental activity happening in the United States relating.
To policy, well, a lot of that, a lot of the innovation, a lot of that Silicon Valley kind of goodness really comes from the talent and the labor pool. We've been talking about this for quite some time in terms of how do you train your engineers. You train Americans to do a lot of what Silicon Valley depends on foreign workers to do. Does this impact innovation in Silicon Valley and doesn't impact megacap stocks tech companies that are dependent on this.
Well, from what we know of this administration, they ultimately want to keep students who have been educated in the US foreign students that have been educated in the US in the US.
So really do us.
Think this is part of the negotiation with India and UH and that when all is said and done, we're probably going to loosen up the H one visa visa program.
But in the short term, is that going to have an impact on tech companies.
I think what it's going to do is force tech companies to do what they're already doing and that has become more efficient. And the other thing to note is, uh, you know, coding is changing dramatically. The number of coding jobs and openings has dropped dramatically. Because of AI, all of us can become coders. This is natural language programming. Generative AI is prompting chat GBT to get your programs going.
We can all do that. That's simplifying it. But I do think it gives you a sense of the kind of productivity that possibilities that are possible, that that will impact these tech companies longer term.
Posy Cappy with their with Bloomberg's Kritty Gupta. Okay, coming up, the maker of the Aura ring is set to become a eleven billion dollar company with a new Series E financing round. We're going to speak to the CEO about how the company plans to use that new funding and a lot more that's next.
This is Bloomberg Tech.
Aura, the maker of the popular Aura health and fitness Ring is closing in on a roughly eleven billion dollar valuation, doubling its valuation from last November. That's according to Bloomberg Reporting. Citing Bloomberg sources, the company is saying it's sold over five and a half million fitness rings in total and is on track to double its revenue this year. Or A CEO, Tom Hale, joins us here in San Francisco.
Let's get this out the way. Bloomberg's reported a large round eleven billion dollar valuation, a big raise.
Any comment please.
Well, you know you read the same reports that I do. Congratulations on getting a school, but no, I don't have any comments on rumors as of yet. But interesting to see that that that news is starting to trickle.
Out and you appreciate why we have to ask. The main point is that Aura has some momentum, so you actually have shared some not just financial metrics, but operational metrics, right, I would call it the installed base of customers has grown. Just explain what that data signals to you, Tom, Yeah.
Well, we have shipped five point five million rings in the history of the company, but half of those have come in the last twelve months. So as we've doubled our business. We've doubled the number of people have rings just in the last twelve months alone, and we think actually that's showing up in our revenue. Obviously, five hundred million last year was what we reported. I think this year we're going to do a billion dollars in revenue.
And if we think in twenty twenty six, we're probably going to sell our ten millionth ring.
Tom Between Ed and I, we try to divide and conquer and all the wearables and use them. And I'm the orering user in the house, So full disclosure. And look, we have seen real iterations and changes to the way in which some of the data is helping the AI agents is something that I'm really noticing the glue host monitoring as well. How are you evolving to insually you get a bigger demographic.
Well, you know, one of our core demographics is women, and we've been expanding the value that we deliver for women. I mean this last year we introduce pregnancy insights, menopause features, and we've been continually to push on this idea of the fertile window, which is helping women or couples conceive.
So that's one way, but as you think about the areas of expansion for us, you know, we think about metabolic because the one thing that you do more often than sleep that affects your health is eat, and so if we can help you build healthy habits around eating, that's hugely powerful.
In addition, we're continue to expand in fitness.
We're looking very much at the ways that sleep and can be played to interact with other parts of your help to give you a holistic picture of your health. And then this fall, of course a very exciting time of year. Lots of exciting new things will be coming down the pipe.
What's been so interesting is also who you've been selling to, whether it's corporates or also institutions I'm thinking of the US military or as large as business custom We understand tens of thousands of serve as members using the rings. You're doing fatigue tracking and doing research. But you also got sort of caught in a pr firestorm, shall I say, is suddenly there was a lot of well people would say, misinformation, fate news around how you've had to integrate with impalenteersone use of.
Fed start and what did you learn from that experience?
Tom?
You had to get on TikTok yourself.
Yeah, yes, I think the truth is is that when your customers are upset, you absolutely need to listen to them. So we take the concerns that were raised incredibly seriously. Privacy is a third rail, especially for women, and so we took that incredibly seriously. I took to TikTok myself
to address our customers directly. But let me address the misinformation. Basically, there is no scenario under which the consumer system and the consumer data would be shared with anyone at Palenteer or anyone in the government.
So that's just not a thing. They are two separate systems.
And of course the most important thing is that privacy is like the most important thing that we do. We're focused on your health, and so delivering your health means protecting the precious and private information that's so sensitive, and so that's just a core thing. It's a commitment. We will never never sell your data and we will never
share your data without your consent. If you want to share your data to be part of a scientific study, we will absolutely enable that, and we'll give you the tools and the power to control it.
So we've done so much on this program this year on the electronics supply chain, you know, even on the innovation side, miniaturization of electronics. But I think it's fair to ask you how you're exposed to supply chain outside of the United States, anything you've done to respond to the policies of this administration in that respect.
You know, President Trump said he was going to raise the tariff, so we took him at his word. We were well prepared and we manage that quite effectively. We don't manufacture in China. In fact, we opened up a factory in the US in Mexico to help us manufacture and meet that demand, and that turned out to be
a very foresightful decision. We also manufacture in Eastern Europe, and now we'll be opening up a factory in the United States in Fort Worth, and that actually will be there to service our customers who are in the military.
There'll be special security.
And very stringent standards around the data that goes onto the ring itself. So it's actually quite an exciting time for us from a manufacturing standpoint because we've avoided most of the fracasts around tak TARFFS.
And I have to ask you about some of the news of the day in talent.
H one BBS is what we've discussed.
But with that footprint in the US you're building, what's that look like for you in hiring competitively on engineering in particular.
Yeah, we are investing hugely in the United States.
In fact, we have about one thousand employees at AURA now and over sixty percent of them are actually in the US, so we have we're less exposed to that kind of H one B risk. And since many of our technical talent comes from Finland as well, but they reside in Finland, it's less of a concern. That being said, I think it's really important maybe for the entire tech industry to really look at this and make sure that we're solving this problem. I kind of subscribe to Kathy's point.
I actually think I think we're going to see something where this is really a negotiating standard.
I'm not sure it's going.
To hold fascinating or a CEO Tom Hale come back soon. We appreciate it's time now for talking tech and first up. Morgan Stanley upgraded ASML to an overweight rating, joining the likes of EBS and Research.
And Bullish on the stock, so shares of the company.
Have rallied thirty three percent from a September the second low and the recent surge has propelled ASML to become the biggest listed company in Europe evaluation of three hundred seventy nine billion dollars plus shares of Samsung. They also jumped after reports say it has one approval from Nvidia for the use of its advanced memory chips.
Now the breakthrough by.
The Korean tech giant clears components for use in AI accelerators that are essential to training AI models and would allow Samsung to compete with Skhinex and Ali Baba is hoping to lure established brands away from Amazon to its own Ali Express e commerce site. Now calling to sources, Ali Express is rolling out a new initiative to boost customers and sales, promising lowing Shivig fees and offering to take a lower cut of sales than Amazon.
Ed Yeah, stick with Amazon.
Amazon and three executive face off in court today against the Federal Trade Commission Regulator alleges Amazon makes it easy to enroll in its prime service and unduly difficult to cancel in violation of customer protection laws. Let's get to Bloomberg's Amazon reporter Spenser Sofa, You and I have discussed this issue over the last few years. What do we need to know about this case and the arguments Amazon's going to try and make to defeat it.
Well, Amazon's looking at potentially finds well into the billions of dollars around this, so it has to take this seriously. You're looking at fines of fifty three thousand dollars per violation, you know, over tens of millions of Prime subscribers, so
it's a rather big deal. The Federal Trade Commission is arguing that Amazon's just made it complicated and deliberately difficult for people to cancel Prime if they don't want it, And now the Amazon is trying to argue, well, you know, there's all kinds of ways that people can cancel and all kinds of different flows, and they're really trying to make it look like there's a very large number of ways people can cancel to try to minimize its exposure
to this, to any potential any potential violations. Jury selection is supposed to start today, Trials expected to drag into October, and you know, it is kind of a test case around subscriptions and how easy it is to sign up for things on your phone when you're on the move, and how hard it is to cancel Spenser.
Briefly, the FTC is also looking at such advertising practices of Amazon. More broadly, they are in the eye of the storm when it comes to regulators a bit.
Yeah, it's it's an interesting phenomenon because a lot of this stuff is kind of holdover from the previous administration, and there's been a lot of questions about how Trump's FTC will will carry on some of these things. But Amazons still feel on the heat, still looking at fresh allegations on the advertising front and how it sets pricing on these on these automated auctions around search advertising that
you see on the site. And now there's also the consumer protection claim, so they're not out of the woods yet, even though the administration.
Has changed Meg'spenser Sofa, setting us straight ahead of that unfolding litigation that does it. In this edition of Bloomberg Tech though, and we've got to check out the podcast.
Yeah, a big way to start that. We check out the pod.
You know where to find it on all the Bloomberg platforms and online, Apple, Spotify and iHeart Buckle up.
So only Monday. This is Bloomberg Tech