Netflix's Bet on Ads and Bitcoin Rewards

announces its ad supported plan to launch in November. Details this hour plus Now you can turn any credit or debit card into a Bitcoin rewards car thanks to the rewards up slowly. We'll talk about the company's mission to make Bitcoin more accessible to all with CEO Alex Adelman and investor Alexis Ohanian and of Apple, card users can see rewards automatically deposited into new accounts thanks to its extended partnership with Goldman Sachs. We'll talk about Apple's continued

fin tech push. All that in a moment, but first, stock surging roaring back from that sell off sparked by heart inflation numbers. How to tech fair well, Our Ed Ludlow has been watching it all day, Ed, what did you see? Yeah, I mean it was a wild ride. The hot CPI or inflation print from September really reinforce this idea that the FED is going to be aggressive or remain aggressive with its rate hike path. But the

market kind of stayed sanguine. When we look at volatility data like the cbo E VIX or VIX index, you know, the market didn't seem to panic, and it kinds surging back on the NAZA one hundred and the SMP five under we saw swings of more than five percent, five to six percent at one point. Yet the NASA one hundred was down by three percent. And if you allow me, glets get technical. Let's get technical together and look at this Bloomberg terminal chart because it was interesting. Technical levels

did seem to play a key role here. At one point, the benchmark SMP five hundred was was down back below below its post pandemic rally, you know, at their thirty five mark, and that seems to trigger some program buy. And what I'm saying, in other words, is the algoes kicked in to rebalance the market, and that was a key factor this Thursday. So let's dig into tech and and and how tech fairty here because there it's been an absolutely dreadful a few days yeah, a few days

and a few weeks. Right while rates have been pushing higher, you know, the NASA one hundred, NYC Fang Plus Index, the Philadelphia Semiconductor INEXT, you name it, they've all kind of underperformed the broader market. In this case, we're looking at the SMP five hundred is the benchmark for US equities, and we know the story, right, Higher rates discount the present value of future profits, particularly for corners of the tech market that a preprofit or trade has stretched multiples.

But there is debate out there about how tech fairs because when you think about the megacaps, for example, you look at the names like Microsoft and Google, they're down more than thirty percent year to date, really trailing the SMP five. But there's also confidence that in a recession re environment, and if the FED goes too far with with rate heights, we do have a recession. In that recession we environment megacap tech fares better because it has

an entrenched market position, strong balance sheet. We're not seeing that play out in the market right now, but there is a feeling that if we do move towards the word recession in substantive terms, that you might see tech as a strong play, and we can't talk about markets without talking chips. Obviously, a huge week in the semiconductor industry so far, on one that maybe they'd rather forget.

But but how are we trending? Yes, so the Philadelphia semi coonductor in nex or SOCKS was higher on Thursday after five straight days of declines. It's been really downtrodden, right. We've been talking all week about how there's a real slow down in consumer electronics and the PC market, in other words, the end markets where those chips go into.

The latest news overnight was from TSMC, one of the leading fabs in the world, that cut capital spending plans, and that's a real signal to the world of tech that it's expecting a slowdown in demand for chip manufacturing. The other big story, of course, playing out is this

ramp up intentions between the US and China. But we're on an upward trajectory at least for Thursday, and as we've shown in the last couple of minutes on the screen, the SOCKS has really underperformed the broader market to date. The question is when do we bottom out and how much further does that slow down in demand for the end markets for chips. How much further does that have

to run? All right, I'm low, thank you. Meantime, Netflix will reduce introduce an advertising supported plan on November three, charging a seven dollars a month for subscriptions. The streaming service hopes to attract price sensitive customers at a time when growth has plateau. Joining us now Chris Paul Mary of course who covers helps us cover Netflix in the entertainment industry. So how competitive? Chris? Would you say? This price tag is very competitive? You know, this was a

lot lower than people anticipated. Seven dollars a month is a dollar below what Disney plus his new ad supported service is going to be dollar below Hulu, three dollars below the HBO Max adds supported service. This is really Netflix, you know, putting a stake in the ground and say we are here to get more customers out of this new plan. Talk to us about the bigger picture and you know how this will play out. And you know what we've talked about is a sea of streaming services.

You know, so many options out there in terms of where to get your content. You know, is it is it really this price that gives Netflix that much more of an edge well, this, this is a big moment in the evolution of streaming because you know, Netflix founder Rein Hastings at Lauden, you know, fought having ads on his service. He thought that, you know, and not having ads was a big differentiator from traditional TV. Of course it was, but we've now seen the whole industry evolved

towards having various options. You know, Hulu, for examples, has built a multibillion dollar business with advertising, and potentially that will be the same at Netflix. And so everyone now has these different tiers of plans giving consumers the options. The irony is that the streaming business now looks a lot like traditional TV, and unlike traditional TV, you can't even record the shows and then skip the ads. You're kind of going to force to watch the ads if

if that's the plan you choose. Our colleague Lucas Shaw has a new piece out in Bloomberg business Week and the headline is Netflix is Makeover is Everything. Ted Surrandos once hated, you know, you mentioned the word evolution, but you know, talk to us about just how how different this is and and sort of Ted Surrandos and and

read hastings new vision here. There's so many ways the company is changing, change because basically everybody copied it, you know, from Disney to Time Warner and that everyone came out with streaming services. And so we're seeing you know, not just the ad supported things that that that Red didn't want, but you know, they're cracking down on passwords sharing, which was for a long time they let anybody you know

share passwords. We're now seeing experimentation with the new Knives Out film is going to be in theaters for a week before a month before it comes to the streaming service. So we're seeing a lot of experimentation and changing in the old ways Netflix works. And they have to change because you know, there are subscribers were down in the first half of this year. Do you think competitors will make some moves as a result of what Netflix has

announced here? And if so, what, well, to some degree, you know, Netflix is playing catch up because a lot of the other folks have ad supported services and and so we're just you know, we're seeing a real evolution of the streaming business. We're seeing a lot more price competitions, a lot more offers, and you know, and and and all of these big media come but these are using their traditional TV arms to promote their streaming services. They're

putting some of their best shows on streaming first. So you know, this is that this is a major, major fight in the streaming wars for sure. So Chris, what's your outlook in terms of, you know, let's say, where is the streaming industry a year from now. We've been talking about you know, ESPN and potential m and A with sports betting. There's all of these, you know, potentially interesting and unique moves coming in the midst of a

major market downturn, you know. And and the streamers aren't going to be immune to that, no, And you know we've seen cutbacks and spending at Netflix and all and a lot of the big companies. But there it's very clear this is the way the industry is going. And it's almost like shocking. Every week we see now evolution.

You know, NBC for example, considering taking away an hour of prime time you know, big shows Dancing with the Stars a big hit on ABC forever you know, now exclusively on disne Plus or Kardashians or only on Hulu. You know. So we're seeing this massive migration you know, before our eyes, and that's not going to change. There is certainly going to be continued subscriber growth and streaming, and hopefully as the industry grows and rationalizes, is spending

some profits as well. All right, Bloomberg's Chris Palmry will keep following your reporting on this great migration. Thank you for your insights. There another story that we continue to watch, Meta has urged a judge to reject the FTC's attempt to block the company's acquisition of the virtual reality app within Unlimited Medicine. The agency's claims about competition in the area are based on pure speculation. The FTC alleges Meta

would kill future competition in a new market. The last time they FTC brought such a case back in involving sterilization technology, the agency lost. Can a bitcoin become a global alternative currency? Well, at least that's the bed of the bitcoin shopping rewards app Lolly, which just launched a new instore earnings experience giving shoppers the ability to turn any credit or debit card into a bitcoin rewards card.

For more and how it all works and what it means to launch this in the middle of major market uncertainty, I want to bring in Lolly CEO Alex Ailman and Alexis Ohanian, founder of the venture capital firm seven seven six, which of course is backing Lolly. So Alexis, of course, you know, you're an investor in so many things, but I know that Lolly is really important to you. What do you think is so unique about this in store

earnings experience? You know, one of the things that I've been obsessed with from my very first investment in crypto, which was seating coin based back in is the user experience.

And something that Lolly has pioneered is bringing this successibility in the form of cash back through online shopping to so many people, delighting them And so we just made sense, especially as the world is you know now moved out of lockdowns, um, to make it even easier for people to earn bitcoin just simply going through their normal purchasing habits,

and card boost is a great way to do that. Alex, tell us how it all works and how popular, uh you expected to be given that we're in a downturn. Bitcoins now back below twenty and you know, we just got a lot of questions about the future of the economy. Yeah, that's a great question. Uh, I mean, we're on a mission to save people money, and that money happens to be Bitcoin, which we believe is the best money in

the world. Um, we save people on average about seven on every transaction and upwards of so as we most likely go into a recession, it's more important now than ever to be saving money at all your favorite places. And with the launch of this new card Boost Boost Future, we went from a thousand merchants to over ten thousand merchants that you can earn from Alexis. What is your outlook on the markets right now, given you know what we're seeing across tech shares, what we're seeing in crypto,

you know, than the the high inflation numbers. You know, Jamie Diamond just said he thinks the markets are going to fall another another. How are you thinking about where

this is going and how is that impacting your investment strategy? Well, I think in the on the head, there's a lot of uncertainty right now and in a way, uh, you know, products that are countercyclical because they're offering opportunities for consumers to save money tend to do better in times of this kind of economic uncertainty, and so that that's certainly factored into why we were so excited about Wally, and I think broadly, look, the big advantage to being an

early stage investor working with CEOs from the very start is no matter what the macro picture looks like, uh, it is almost is it is always a great time and to be starting a company and almost more opportunistic during times of this kind of you know, volatility and uncertainty, because it really it sobers up a CEO to have to focus on making something that people genuinely need, genuinely want, that have viable business models and so in away, I

you know, it's not that I look forward to these times, but I do think they bring out the best in new entrepreneurs who are solving real problems. And we have a lot of real problems that need solving. So we're still active, We're still busy investing, and obviously I want to see this economy, you know, get its legs back on earth. But I agree it's going to take time. What are you telling founders right now? You know, how

are you telling them to navigate choppy conditions? I have a lot of keep keep cash on hand, you know, focus on reducing burn and really isolate your focus of the company around not just growth at all costs, but but real scalable growth. Focus on things like revenue, focus on it's not going to be about the story of how quickly or how much you grew in the next

six months a year. It's about how much you were able to accomplish with the money you had, and ideally to get yourself in a casual, positive situation as soon as you can, because then you're ultimately controlling your own destiny and it's not up to you or it's up to other investors whether or not you get to the next round. And what's exciting is the companies that ironically, you know, don't need those outside sources of capital are often the ones that have the most luck fundraising during

times like this. And you know, we've we've really enjoyed seeing the trajectory of Lolly and have have doubled down and excited to see it keep growing. Alex talk to us about how many people are using Lolly, the demographics and how they're actually using their rewards or are they holding there are rewards. It's a great question. So we launched four years ago and we've already brought on over

fi thousand users that are earning bitcoin. Uh. These are across web with our Chrome extension and mobile with our new mobile app. So a lot of users where we are their first experience into crypto, and that's what we want to do. We want people to we want to teach people about bitcoin. We want to teach people about the importance of this this new world that we're entering into and you know, save people a lot of money

in the process. Um right now. You know, some of the most interesting statistics is that over our users are female. When I first um un tell us an eight team, when I sort of starting ally with my co founder Map, what we found was that less than four percent of crypto users were female. And so we're very proud to share that we're seeing a dramatic increase given the nature of of our business. That's great to hear. Thank you for sharing that, Alexis. I'm curious for your outlook on

crypto in particular as the market downturn continues. Bitcoin, for an example, we're seeing slightly lower volume, yes, less volatility, but the lower volume is kind of a red flag. What's your outlook for bitcoin and and for the broader crypto market, you know, beyond the startups and other places where you're investing. Well, look, I've I have now been

investing in building through multiple crypto winters. Uh, this is the time when the very best products are getting built, when a lot of the Charlotteans and the hype have have exited the building and and the folks who are left are the folks who are genuinely building and solving real problems. And so the next test for this next cycle, for us to get to the next crypto spring, which I do think will come, is really going to hinge

on user experience. We you know, we have an opportunity now to really expand the base of folks who are finding value in this technology. Uh. You know, Bitcoin rewards are one way, and I think what's so interesting about it is we're also talking about that in the process of just having a lot account, basically being given your first crypto wallet and through a really elegant user experience and e commerce or even now breaking mortar commerce is

something we all do. Here's some cash back. It just happens to be in the form of a cryptocurrency, Bitcoin, And I really believe five ten years out, you know, we're going to continue to see more cycles. This is gonna play itself out all over again. But every single time we hit a new level of of folks who are bought in, who have found utility, who have found value. And I'm I'm like I said, I'm I'm long term,

still very very excited. There will continue to be volatility, but this is the exact time to be building if you're a long term believer in the tech. Everything's everything's on sale right now, and I think some great user experiences are going to get billed in the next few years. So last quick question to you, Alex Then, if Lawley is a gateway to this first wallet for UM so many new users, more women users, hopefully, how are you playing out a market downturn, a potential you know, you know,

a lengthened crypto winter into Lolly's business. How long does this last? In your view? Yeah? So, you know, as Alexis was saying, you know, businesses that save people money do very well in recessionary times. Our last company, UM my co founder and I was last company was acquired by racket in formally ebates, which had its biggest growth years during the last recession. So if we think, you know, if we can follow that that same path, uh, save

people more money and bring on more incredible merchants. UH, continue to build new technology. We're going to do very well through this recessionary time in the spare market. Um, because people are coming into bitcoin with Wally and getting it for free. They don't have to risk, you know, investing in it. They're just shopping as they normally would at their favorite merchants and getting it back. So it really is a risk free way of getting into crypto

and continuing to dollar cost average in into bitcoin. All right, Well, will continue to track your product progress, Lolly, CEO Alex Adelman and seven seven six founder Alexis Ohanian, thank you both. From crypto winter to spring. Potentially, we'll see how long it takes. Okay, coming up, Apple card users get ready to start saving. Details on the company's expanded partnership with Goldman Sacks. Next, this is Bloomberg. Apple is taming up with Goldman Sacks to create a new high yield savings

account for Apple credit card customers. The move building on the existing credit card partnership between these two companies. Joining us now with more Who else but Bloomberg's Mark German. So what exactly have Apple and Goldman announced? What's new here.

So if you have the wallet up on your phone, which all iPhone users do, and you have the Apple Card, which is a collaboration on the credit card between an Apple and Golden Sacks, you will now be able to take your cash back rewards and put it into a new savings account built by Goldman in the wall of app so you can create or generate interest on those cash back rewards. Is Apple Card? Is this something that

you think is going to be popular? I do. I think that this is going to be a entry level free savings account built into your phone for many people. I don't think people are gonna want to store a lot of money in this account, but the ability to generate interest based on your cash back savings that's between one and three percent. Sometimes they have six percent deals on some Apple products. I think it's going to be interesting. Apple hasn't said with the interest rate is going to

be on this account yet. For comparison, Marcus, which is the consumer savings account HI Yield Savings account from Golden right now, is two point one a p y. I would imagine that Apples will be around there as well, So yes, I do think this is a major push from Apple, and it just shows how far they're willing to go in financial services so quickly. How does this fit into Apple's larger fintech strategy. Yes, so they have been rebuilding their entire technical infrastructure and this is a

new piece of that. They have an Apple pay Leader service coming, They're working on another one with Golden Sacks for longer term, higher priced installments. So it all fits together. Apple wants to own payments and basically create the IE bank, and this is a key part of that. The I bank is coming, all right, Mark German, as always, thank you for bringing us your reporting. Appreciate it. Welcome back

to Bloomberg Technology. I'm Emily Chang in San Francisco. While Tech made a roaring comeback on the latest CPI prey, one pocket of the market did get left behind. Bloomberg's id Ludlow here to tell us all about it. Yeah, e commerce and online retailers is really interesting. Amazon was one of only seventeen stocks that closed lower on Thursday. The rest with pretty much those high multiple preprofit software companies that we were talking about earlier in the show.

And I guess it's this one to punch right. We're worried about inflation and how that's going to impact the consumer. At one point, looking at Etsy closed down nine percent. At one point was down twelve percent following the CPI print,

It's biggest drop since June of this year. And also looking at i Buy Amplify e t F ticker I Buy, which is kind of a basket of not just e commerce stocks, but also gig economy stocks, at one point had a really deep three drop, but he actually clawed a lot of that back to close three tenths of percent lower. There's also the question about Prime Day two we've been talking about this week. You see Amazon on the right hand side of that chart, the big drop

following the cp I print. It clawed its way back. But we're starting to hear noises from Amazon about how that October Prime early sales event when they said one million plus items were ordered from partners in primarily access, what does that even mean, Emily. They're not giving us a dollar value. We're not getting any sets of size and scope of how this October window did relative to

the last window. We had that third party data which basically showed consumers were cautious, they spent less money on much cheaper items than perhaps they did in previous windows. I know that's not the picture that Amazon painted in our show this week, but the signs are that it wasn't as strong as perhaps we thought it would be, and it wasn't that much greater than any other day for prime. So real focus right now on the consumer, especially in the context of inflation. Okay, thank you. I

want to stick to the markets. But from a private perspective, we've been talking a lot about the VC slowdown over the last few weeks and there's no new data to support that. Pitchbook is just out with the new report on VC deal making, fundraising, and exit numbers, and the picture is mixed. Let's bring in Kyle Stanford, now the lead VC analyst at Pitchbook, for a deeper dive on this report. Kyle, thank you so much. So what is the data telling you about how the VC ecosystem is

being hit by this? Yeah? I think the data is really showing a very complex picture of what's happening in the venture market. UM. At one end, you have seed deals in early stage deals that have been very strong, UM, you know, lower than one but much higher than we've seen historically. And at the opposite side of the spectrum, late stage has seen deal value plummet. Deals are very difficult to get done there because of the proximity to

the public markets. UM. So as we move forward, you know, we're really looking to see, you know, how that lace stage is able to respond. Obviously, with the lack of I P O s UM, it's going to continue to be a difficult market UM. But overall, the core of VC has shown to be able to still get deals done. Now, let's talk about the total money invested falling to a nine quarter low. Where do we go from here? I think again, we really need to look at where that

that deal value fall came from. UM. You know, crossover investors and in public market investors especially had pumped so much capital into the venture market. The expectation of what VC was really got inflated. Now as those investors have kind of pulled back, at least especially from a dollar value standpoint, that deal value has dropped really significantly very fast.

Last year. In mega deal so one million and larger, there's two hundred billion dollars invested in and eight seven percent of those deals included investment from those private equity funds or public market investors that had not traditionally been part of the market. So I think when we look at a deal value perspective, that is where the decline

has come from. There's still a lot of dry powder out there, and there's a lot of fun of high number of funds ready to make investments, you know, while those investors are you know, probably taking a step back from the market and slowing the pace from what we saw one. That deal value decline is really right now coming from the very top of the market. Billion dollars in dry powder to be specific, How long do you think they're going to hold onto it? I mean, when

are we going to see this money more meaningfully being invested. Well, I think first of all, there needs to be some sort of certainty in the market, right or at least less uncertainty. Interest rates are still rising, inflation is still extremely high. The kind of area where the market is as far as were the expectation of valuations from founders and the um needs of evaluations from investors is still

a little bit dissiocated um. So we won't really see a meaningful amount of capital come back until that that you know kind of deficit closes from a deal dry powder perspective, I think we should look at that as as capital for a seed in early stage that is not meant to support unicorns or support the ultra late stage that has come about in the last few years. So two billion UM is a huge amount of money.

But you know, more importantly, the high number of small investors that are in the market that have closed funds since the beginnings be really important for deal I do count especially moving forward. But again, and you know, we'll be looking towards the public markets to help release some of the pressure that's being created at the top of the market before we really expect any sort of growth to come back to venture. I spoke with Andrew Yang

earlier this week. You know, obviously he goes way back, founded Venture for America, ran for president, has you know, a lot of thoughts about the economy, and he thinks there's a long way, a long way down to go. Take a listen to what he had to say. We have a ways to go on the down slope. I certainly think that uh, folks should try and keep some powder dry, you know, make sure that you have enough cash to make it through for a little bit longer than you might hope. So he's saying to keep powder

dry for a longer period of time. You know, how much farther how much farther down do you think this slope goes, And how do you think vcs are going to negotiate, you know, not knowing how long this is

going to last. Yeah, I mean as far as uh, you know, we do see a leg in data from what we see what we're expecting in the narrative, and so even from right now, I would expect deal counts to continue to slide and deal value slide a little bit more for a few more quarters before it catches up to what we're talking about right now in the

beginning of Q four. UM as far as keeping dry powder, I think again a lot of the that unlocking or or getting that dry powder back into the market, it's gonna have a lot to do with what goes on in the public markets. UM LPs are very over balanced

right now. UM they're they're they've been putting a lot more money to private equity and venture capital for the past few years now, with their public portfolios very much slower than they were last year, I think they're looking at their their VC allocation is a little overweight, and so you know, having those investors continue to hold on to dry powder, not call it down from LPs AT is gonna be very important until we again see a

little bit more certainty in the market. Um see interest rates, interest rates you know stop rising um and inflation kind of start to lower and kind of get to a sense of balance throughout the entire market. All right, Kyle Stanford, lead VC analysts at pitch Book, Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts here, appreciate it. Time now for our crypto rapport, taking a look at the recent agreement between the government of the Commonwealth of Dominica and the decentralized

open source blockchain based operating system TRON. The Caribbean country has appointed the TRON protocol as it's designated national blockchain infrastructure. Let's talk about that and more now with Justin Sun, Ambassador and Permanent Representative of Granadada, the World Trade Organization and and the founder of TRON. Justin thank you so much for joining us. So talk to us about this new agreement with Domerica. How did it come together and

what is the vision? Sure, I believe this is a historical moment for both strong and Dominica since this is the first time a blockchain protocol has collaborate with a Caribbean government UM developing the new digital currency infrastructure for the nation. Tron has been a widely used blockchain infrastructure for almost four years now. Today we have a one hundred and the fifteen meeting users with a very big use case on stable point transac among five q ten

billion US dollars every day. But this is the first time we collaborate with the government and to build there that's a NATES blog chain infrastructure. And also at the same time, all the trunk cryptocurrency including trs, BTT and Lefty JSC and all the stable coin us d U s d T and the us d D on Trunk has granted a status of UM Median of Exchange and authorized digital currency on Dominica. What lessons are you taking from Al Salvador and you know the bitcoin legal tender

situation there which has had mixed results. Yes, I think Dominica move is definitely the next level compared to the move of Al sa Vador UM because in the Al sa Vador bitcoin tender bill is only focused on Bitcoin. I will see take bigoine as a very good um tours for value storage UM. But in terms of payment, stable coin, webs three and the older new concept comes out. We need a small contract platform. We need a new blockchain which with a much much like faster speeds, cheaper

fees and the easy to devolve on it. So that's why I believe we can definitely benefit Dominica people with some more powerful blockchain and the webs free technology. Given the state of the markets, I'm so curious for your outlook. Are you interested in or trying at all to invest in some of these distressed crypto assets, for example the Celsius assets that are coming up for sale, Yes, definitely. I think today it's a bare market, so bare markets

for buy right so um. So instead of like buying all the cryptal assets and assets in the bull markets with a formal emotion, I think right now is a good time to buy cryptal assets when like everybody wants out. So that's why I definitely believe there is some good opportunity in the markets now. But of course with thorough new diligence UH, which is very important and UH the understand thing of good understanding of the business in the first place. But for Trong and myself definitely. Right now,

we are ready for lots of the opportunity. Now, are you interested in the Celsius assets in particular? Um? Yes, I think we have done some due diligence UM selves is before UM. But the whether we're gonna move forward on this opportunity, I think he's still pending. UM. Curious about your role in Huabi, obviously another huge crypto exchange. I know you're an investor UM in Poloniacs. Um. You

know what can you tell us about Wabi? How competitive you think it'll be, what the new owner plans to do with it, especially given China has basically banned crypto Yes, UM, so first off all, UM, I'm the advisor to what be UH and I have joined the company for almost five days now, so I start to get familiar with the team and the policy we're gonna adopt in the future. I think right now what Be has two major focus.

One is focused on the actual token, which is the platform token, which I believe is the core value of the platform. We need to UM push hard on the platform token. Horby a sorry platform as she if we want to build Horby as one of the most important exchange in the world. And also the second strategy is globalization since as everyone knows who Bey is very famous in China before, I think the real success story of

Hoby in the next stage is definitely a globalization. And also we are planned to go back to China once China has a what has a better policy on cryptocurrency, and I think who a Be will be one of the most um important to come um compared to the bowl. Sorry competitive um um exchange out there when the time comes, interesting that you think China's crypto policies will become more friendly. You're not an owner or investor in QUABI, as I understand it, just an advisor. Um is that correct? And

do you own any ht tokens? Yes? I own a lot of ht tolkens for sure, and uh how many I will say pencil minutes? So when even at those HT I will say some of it I already own before I become the advisor, since I use like h t since on day one, Um when will be first like funded in two thousand and thirteen, I start to accumulate h t uh on my own. But no, I will definitely see myself as a one of the biggest

at cheholder UM and also UM for WOBI. I think definitely for the cryptal policy in China, I'm optimistic since you know UM China is UH is facing a big change. I think in the next month or two. I think after the new leadership, we would definitely see a lot of change in the economic policies and even for lots of industry policy. And I believe Cryptal and the blockchain is definitely one of the on the table. All right, Justin Son, thank you for joining us, for sharing all

of that. Ambassador and permanent representative of Granada to the w t O and the founder of course of tron. Coming up, met A doubling down on its VR and ations with its new headset, the Quest Pro, or what the move could mean for adoption across the enterprise with a mixed reality pioneer magically the CEO Peggy Johnson with

me Next. This is Bloomberg Meta doubling down on the metaverse, unveiling its newest virtual reality headset, the Meta quest Pro, this week, seeking to transcend the notion that VR is primarily for gamers, but broadened the audience, joining us to discuss what that could mean for adoption as a pioneer in the space, Peggy Johnson's CEO of Magic Leap and a R venture which was founded back in two thousand

ten before any of us thought this was really possible. Peggy, what were your big takeaways from Meta's announcements aside from Mark Zuckerberg's avatar legs. Well, basically, it's real validation of the decision magically made a couple of years ago to focus initially on the enterprise. The technologies in its current state will allow for an r o I in areas like healthcare, public sector, and manufacturing, so it really is the right entry point for these sorts of technologies. Sat

An Adela. Of course, the CEO of Microsoft, where you spent a very long portion of your career, appeared with Mark Zuckerberg talking about bringing Windows three, six, five to the quest and Microsoft is forming this industrial metaverse team. But do people really want to be working on Excel spreadsheets in the metaverse? Well, I do think that is some of the challenge. If if the goal is just to take what we're doing on our two D screens and put it up in front of us in our

physical world, I think you've missed the real opportunity augmented reality. Actually, you know you you continue to view your physical world and then you intelligently place digital content in front of it. So if you're on a factory floor, you can put the digital twin of a machine that's gone offline on top of the physical machine and bring it back online much more quickly. So talk to us about the real enterprise opportunities that you see and what sectors you think

won't get the most traction. We've got a whole list of interesting applications. One from a company called Centi a R. And what they do is heart capacterization. They used to do it where surgeons watch the heart on a two D screen. Now real time they've imaged the heart in three D. The surgeon can put it in front of their eyes and as they're threading the catheter through the heart, just do it with more care, more accuracy, better navigation,

and better outcomes for the patient. Another is a manufacturing company in the Midwest, PBC Linear. They are having a hard time keeping employees because of the acceleration of retiring factory workers. They've been able to reduce their training time of new factory workers by about eight percent using magically, also reducing the rework and scrap by about twenty so really two benefits. And the new workers like the innovation.

This is a PC on their eyes, so for the first time they get to also enjoy some of these digital tools that we've all had as knowledge workers for years. So last quick question, how far out is the industrial metaverse, whether it's virtual reality or augmented reality. How many years is it going to take pay for? You know, a significant um number of people businesses are using this technology.

That's an easy one, Emily. It's here right now. You can realize r o I right now on these training news cases in three D visualization use cases, and that's what we're focused on. It Magically. Thanky Johnson, CEO Magically. Good to have you back with us. Thanks for sharing your perspective here today. And that doesn't for the sedition of Bloomberg Technology, don't forget to check out our podcast wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Emily Chang in San Francisco. This is Bloomberg