MicroStrategy Buys $10M More Bitcoin and the iPhone Turns 15

monthly subscription to premium content. But what does premium content look like on snap and well, customers pay three a month. Clause Maderna co founder New bar Fa, and we'll join us to talk about the future of the Crown specific boosters and why he's taking on the fight against climate change. Meantime, Michael Sailor is doubling down on bitcoin, micro Strategy buying another four eight coins worth about ten million dollars at

the height of the crypto market collapse. According to a filing from the SEC, micro Strategy purchased the coins between May three in June for about twenty dollars and eight hundred seventeen dollars each. Blue Works Katie Gray felt with us now to discuss and not necessarily a surprise given our last interview with Michael, but still now even below

it's so fascinating. I mean, the fact that you're getting this big whale buying at a time when no one really else is and Emily, like you said, and you know this very well, he's a true believer Michael Sailors. So maybe not surprising in this sense, but it is

a little interesting if you look into the details. So this was micro Strategy smallest bitcoin by in over a year, and I mean, if you look at their entire ward, micro Strategy owns a hundred twenty nine thousand bitcoin in total at this pert point, the average price for all of those purchases it's thirty dollars. So micro Strategy it's well underwater on this bet. But Michael Sailor, I mean he's known as the biggest corporate advocate of bitcoin, and truly,

I mean his actions are backing that up. Whether that will pay off for means to be seen. And clearly that wasn't created as good news in the stock market, but I mean, he does stick to his word. So here's a clip from my interview with Sailor. A couple of weeks ago. First question, any regrets. Take a listen to what he had to say. The bottom line is the bitcoin strategy is ten x better than any other alternative,

and so no, I don't regret it. We've got two point eight billion dollars worth the bitcoin on our balance sheet right now, and we feel like we're positioned well for when the markets turn around, and our only other choice would be to give all the capital back to the shareholders, in which case we would have nothing and we would be struggling, uh to get by without any assets. Ten x better than any other alternative. He's thinking in

the really, really really long term. But even in the short term, how is bitcoin standing up to alt coins and the alternatives out there? Well, if you look across the crypto ecosystem, I mean a really crude way to think about Bitcoin is sort of the Amazon or the apple of the crypto sphere. I mean, this is sort of the biggest coin out there. It tends to move less than some of the other coins, and you definitely

saw that today. I mean to borrow a phrase from Ed Ludlow, I think he said flat as a floppy disk of bitcoin fell just three tents of percent. If you look at some of the old coins, they're more like the speculative tech stocks out there, the high flyers. You saw ether full almost five per cent, Salona even more than that. And this is why you typically see on the downside and the upside too, when Bitcoin moves higher,

it the old coins that lead the gains. And as we've learned over the past few months, the same is true on the downside. When you do have this big draw down in bitcoin, it tends to be even bigger out the risk curve well. And at the same time, you have the bitcoin believer as you've got the folks are never ever going to give up on n f T s, and yet n f T s continuing to fall. I mean, you know, would you say we were were

past the peak? It's a good question. I mean, just looking at the data, because you're gonna get a thousand different opinions. But if you look at the data on open see that is the biggest n f T marketplace out there. This is a really shocking stat In a Bloomberg News article today, sales volume has fallen just since ny It's at the lowest level since July. So I don't know, perhaps some of the air is coming out of that n F T bubble and whatever this is,

you know, approaching the bottom remains to be seen. But Emily, this is what a crypto winter looks like. You tend to see a shakeout like this, and you're clearly seeing it in n F T S and all coins. It is cold. Indeed, Now the deadline for US regulators to rule on gray stales campaign to convert its bitcoin trust into a spot E t F is coming up. What are we expecting there? I am laser focused on this decision. I cover crypto, I cover E t F s. Now

we have them coming full circle. So the consensus in both industries is that this is going to be a denial that the SEC isn't going to allow Gray Skill to convert it streuss into a physically backed e t F. That isn't a structure that exists in the U S. But I crunched the numbers on what that would actually mean for Gray Skill if this fund were to convert into an E t F. Again, not the base case.

Right now, as a trust, it's able to charge two percent, So if you times that by the assets under management, about thirteen billion dollars. That works out to over two hundred thirty million dollars in revenue for gray Skill per year as a trust. But if it converts to an e t F, two percent is very very high for an e t F, You're almost never going to see that.

Feel the most expre one of the most expensions crypto et f s out there, charges a fee of less than one percent, So even if they get a win in the next week, I mean, that would mean hundreds of millions of dollars lost in revenue. And Emily, we're in a crypto winter. All right, Katie, what are you gonna be watching tomorrow? Tomorrow? I mean, I'm right back to the fundamentals of the U S economy. I'm looking

at core PC figures. But as we've learned, bitcoin tends to move along with stocks, and stocks are absolutely moving with inflation. Bloomberg's Katie Greifeld, thank you for telling us what's on your radar? All right? Coming up, the co founder of maderna new bar off and joins me next as a pandemic moves into yet another phase. Plus how the newest ruling from the U. S. Supreme Court could impact climate change and his portfolio. That is all. Next,

this is Bloomberg. On Thursday, the U s. Supreme Court is set to issue another major decision. This one will have a big impact on climate change. Specifically, the power of the US government has to tell companies to reduce their greenhouse gas emissions. As we wait for the decision, many tech companies have been taking it upon themselves to

reduce their carbon footprints. Indigo Agriculture is one such company helping fight climate change with carbon removal technologies backed by the venture capital firm Flagship Pioneering, which might sound familiar to you because the CEO of Flagship New Bar, a Fan, has been on our show many times. He is also the co founder of Maderna New Bar. It's great to talk to you again. I want to talk to you about Indigo Agriculture their carbon farming program. What is the

dent you expect this or hope? Uh? This will make in the climate fight. Emily, thanks for having me. This is very exciting day today because it's really the first time that a certified carbon credit has been issued against basically output from farmers. And while today we announced twenty thousand tons of of of certified carbon being captured Uh, that really can scale and can scale rapidly, we think, uh,

And so it really is a proof point. Um, there's there's probably several orders of magnitude a hundred of thousandfold more that can be expected from this. And I think that agriculture is kind of a very interesting way to think about carbon storing, capturing and storing carbon and creating with urns for farmers, which is also a very important, uh, kind of part of the circular economy aspect of this.

So we're bracing for yet another Supreme Court ruling, this one on whether the e p A has the authority to tell companies to regulate greenhouse gas emissions. What are you bracing for here and how could this impact your new venture? Well, I mean, certainly, I think that that that we see a lot of mixed signals as when it comes to how consistently we want to to to to make sure that corporations and and other entities are

being responsible for their carbon footprint. Certainly that the momentum has been in favor of more and more responsibility, but I think that regulation aside, the vast majority of companies are moving down a path where they're taking it upon themselves. Today's announcement by Indigo involves eleven major brands that actually have stepped up and and and associated with the work that the farmers do some forty dollars per ton of carbon,

which is twice what it was a year ago. And we think that these incentives that that will drive the creation these credits will be part of the solution, and I think corporations might be forced to do it, but they also may choose to do it because it's the right thing to do and it's scalable. Now, regulatory advisors just recommended that shots from Maderna and Visor be updated to target Oh Macron, what are the next steps from a journal here and how will your concoction be different

than what Fiser has to offer. Well, the context switch is pretty sudden, but I think it's it's memorable for me, Emily because at some level we're talking about the health of the planet, and then we're also talking about the health of the inhabitants of the planet. So for us, it's really all the same thing from a point of

view of the science and the innovation. Uh specifically to your to your question, clearly we've been caught up in this battle for two years now between a virus and the detect human technology to combat it, and as the virus adapts, we've had to adapt our own vaccine to be able to stay ahead of it and provide the

kind of immune protection. We showed yesterday's hearing with the FDA that the data we're generating out of a bi valent that is two different spike protein sequences in our new vaccines are a robust protection package for what we expect to be uh it's coming up in the fall. So what we need to do is to work with the authorities making sure that we we kind of uh put in place that what will be the next vaccine

that's going to be used. Certainly, yesterday's book encouraged a macron to be incorporated into that, and once that's done, we're ready to ramp up production and be ready by early fall to provide the vaccines needed for protection. I think a lot of people, as you know, Emily, are tired. I'm tired. Everybody's tired of this, of this pandemic. But the bad news is devirus doesn't get tired, and we're gonna have to stay vigilant. However tired we get, we

we are tired. I agree, and also you know there are a lot of folks waiting on these boosters and guidance on boosters. It's it's it's been kind of confusing the messaging from the US government. You said early fall, is that the soonest like when do you think O macron specific shots will be going into the arms of Americans?

Ending working out with the FDA and other authorities the final vaccine composition that we're going with, and there's a little bit of this that begins to look like early versions of what we've done with seasonal flu, where there's got to be a definition set on what the next vaccine looks like. But once that's done, we think the sooner that's done, the sooner we can get on we're poised to manufacture significant quantities. And like we're looking at as early in the fall as we can. You know,

early September would be great. May well be depending on when the go ahead is given that will affect it. But but we certainly have planned for in our poise to be able to move very very quickly. Now COVID vaccines are starting to roll out for kids, and I'm curious how you think that campaign is going we've seen a kind of a slow vaccination campaign under under pediatricians. What's it gonna take to make parents less hesitant to

get this done? Look, I think that it took a while to get to this point, which is unfortunate because during that time, people were opposed to any any number of conflicting points of view, and and everybody uh seems to have a view about any number of topics that relate to public health, even though there's public health professionals that I'd say are probably much more uh prepared to and and qualified to to guide what it is we're

doing as a population. I think it's gonna take a little bit of time for people to get the right information. The fact is, rigorous testing has been done. The fact is that protecting the youngest kids from getting infected is not only important for their health, but the health of the people surrounding them and the people who want to be with them. And so I think that overall, just like we're vaccinated for lots of other things, we care about our kids health and this is a very important

next step. The other thing you have to keep in mind, Emily, and again this is I think getting lost in the information wars that seem to be going on, is that actually just getting COVID, let alone, getting it over and over again is from a long term health standpoint dangerous and and and I think that we think of this as a cold and we go, well, we get it every year, so a big deal. There's no evidence that

the way this disease plays out. Quite the contrary, there's evidence that in some subset of people, several percent of the people, it has long term effects. And I don't see that that's going to be different once enough young kids get this. So we have to be less cavalier about it and do everything we can to prevent it, at least until we learn more about the disease. We just got a new headline that Fiser and bion Tech are going to get an extra three point two billion

dollars from the United States for COVID vaccine development. Are you expecting more money from Maderna as well? I can't comment on that, alright, So let's talk about the national bio defense strategy. I'm so curious if you and Flagship have spoken to the by Buying administration about this and

what the role of Flagship could be there. You know, obviously the hope is that at some point this pandemic abates, but we will be facing other threats, so emily we we have indirect contacts or through a number of channels, and I'd say that I'm happy to see more discussion happening about this whole notion of health security. This is something that we've talked about for three years, in fact,

preceding the pandemic. We do think that we need to elevate our health to a matter of security, not just care. It's not enough that our health kind of is under attack and then we try to then do something about it.

We have to get ahead of it and health security, whether it's against pathogen threats or against a lot of the slow pandemics that we are attacked by every day, whether that's cancer or Alzheimer's, or obesity or any number of diseases, all of these are the same kind of threat that can take down our lives, take down our health, and we need to get ahead of it. Health security, by defense. All of that is part of a comprehensive solution.

And I certainly hope and expect that the kind of damage this pandemic is done will be at least converted into some long term lasting value to society. Just like major wars have led to significant kind of after effects that have been good for mankind. I expect that to be the case in this case through a more serious effort at preparedness and prevention. All right, well, really appreciate all the work you are doing and your team on the front lines to keep us all safe and also

now to fight climate change as well. Majorna, co founder, CEO Flagship Pioneering New Bar a fan. Good to have you back. The iconic iPhone turns fifteen today. Steve Jobs introduced the revolutionary product back in two thousand seven, changing the phone and app landscape forever and archuably the world. For more on this, I want to bring in Bloomberg's Mark German, of course covers all things Apple. It is hard to overstate Mark just how much the iPhone has

changed a lot of things about this world. How do you assess the impact of this one particular product and the future impact on the Apple ecosystem. So I think the iPhone is so much more than just the iPhone, even for Apple. If you think about Apple, the company that exists today and where they get all of their sales from all the revenue from and all the major elements their business, it all stems from the iPhone. So the iPhone, you look at that, but what came from

the iPhone? The iPad came from the iPhone? Right, The App Store came from the iPhone. All their services, News plus TV, plus Apple Arcade, iCloud, all those things work hand in hand with the iPhone. So none of their peripheral products, the Apple Watch, the air pods, the Apple TV, those are all very iPhone reliant. So Apple is the iPhone company because the iPhone not only is their biggest seller, but it needed to exist for all of their other

products to exist. So Apple, you might as well rename them to iPhone in from that standpoint, and obviously you see what it's done for the world. Right. People don't talk to each other in lines anymore, right, People can't focus on screens in a movie theater anymore. Right. Everyone is glued to their phone constantly, and people can do anything from their phone, whether it's an iPhone or Samsung.

It all stemmed from the iPhone. So what are the next fifteen years of growth going to come from for Apple? Are we gonna be using phones at all? In fifteen years. Is it going to be an a R headset? Is it going to be recurring revenue from services? I think there's always gonna be a place for a handheld device of product that you keep in your pocket, in your

bag or whatnot. I think maybe you'll sleep see people wean off of tablets and laptops more in the iPhone itself becomes sort of a phone, quote desktop computer or your home computer, your laptop, and what was the phone sort of shifts to the wrists for the smart watch and for the A R glasses. So I think the iPhone will have a place fifteen years from now still right.

I still think there will be new iPhones in over a decade from now, but you'll see that sort of to use the Steve Jobs analogy, the iPhone become the truck, right, and the air glasses in the watch become par So I still think there's a place for the phone. One term interesting bloom Brooks Mark German, who covers Apple and will be hopefully for much, if not all, of those texts fifteen years, Mark, thank you, Welcome back to Bloomberg Technology.

I'm Emily changing in San Francisco, subscribing to Snapchat. That's right. Snap is launching a paid version of the widely used social media platform, offering quote exclusive and experimental they say features gloom Skirt Wagner joins us now to discuss. So we've seen the struggles that like Netflix is having, for example, with its subscription service, why is not moving into this business? So you're noticing this both with Snap you recall Twitter did this as well. I think this has to do

with the fact that these are advertising companies. Um, it's been a tough year with everything happening with Apple and the tracking changes, and I think these companies that have mostly built an entire business around advertising are realizing that it's not always in their control, it's not always in their hands. It's good to have other forms of revenue, even if they're small, to kind of counterbalance that somewhat.

And so I think that's why you're starting to see some of these social platforms start to, you know, tinker with subscriptions. So what kind of premium content do I get for Yeah, it sounds pretty limited. From what I can tell. It sounds like you can, you know, similar things to to Twitter. Again. You can change your app icon, you can prioritize certain messages, right, So maybe pin things that you use regularly. So I don't think it's the kind of thing that the vast majority of people will

want to use. But again, similar to Twitter, if you are a power user, if you're someone who does all or most of your communication on Snap, maybe this is, you know, something that's worth a couple of bucks too. Are we going to see more strategies like this from

other similar company? I think so because of the advertising thing, right, I think if you're an advertising business, you have to sit around and look and say can we control There's a lot that you can't, as we've learned from the pandemic, as we've learned from Apple, and so I think you know you're going to see the facebooks and others of the world. Maybe it's not subscriptions, but maybe it's commerce or other types of revenue streams beyond advertising paying for

certain features. Essentially. Yeah, I mean you heard Mark Zuckerberg last week talk about the metaverse and how he wants people to you know, shop and buy clothes for their avatar. Like that's not advertising in the way we think of with with Meta or Facebook. It's a different kind of revenue, But I think it's all alt. Are people going to be paying for clothes for their avatars? Is that going to be? But do you believe UM? I believe that people will pay things. Yes, I believe people will buy

things for the avatar. I don't know if UM it will be widely used by people, at least early on. Right if if suddenly you and I are having this interview in the metaverse someday and I'm working from home and you're going from home, like, I'm probably gonna want to wear something a little nicer than what I have here, So maybe I would I would have Bloomberg expensive. That's an interesting use case. I'll think about it. Our car Wagner,

thank you well. After two years of virtual conferences, hp s annual Edge to Cloud Conference is back in person in Las Vegas. More than eight thousand people intended to hear about the latest innovations as the company leans into its everything as a service business strategy. HP CEO Antonio Narry joins us now exclusively to bring us the latest from Vegas. Antonio, it's great to have you back with us. So look that it seems like the everything on people's

minds NOW is the economy. What are you hearing from customers, how worried are they and how is this potentially impending recession impacting them? Well, I mean, first of all, thanks for having me. Is a great day to be here with customers in parliaments. As you said, we have more than eight thousand attendees, and he has been an amazing

couple of days where the energy is unbelievable. It shows that being together right is unique and one feed by a god from customers, this this time around feels totally different and there's a sort of a sense of excitement. And what we hear from them is that the power of digital transformation is accelerated and they need solutions to accelerate inside from the data. Obviously they are all concerned about what's happened next, but I think it's more a

consumer phenomenal than an enterprise at phenomenal. So how that impacting your outlook? I mean, do you think a recession is inevitable? I mean you have to be planning for that scenario. Of course, we do based planning scenarios for what comes next. But I have to tell you, Emily, the demand that we continue to see the market is incredibly strong, and this event is a catalyst to continue with the momentum. We showcase amazing innovation and delivering on

the vision I shift three years ago. By the way, when was the last discovered here in Vegas that we can offer everything as a service from h to cloud. But as I think about the megatrends right related to the need to connect, the need to deliver a cloud experience for all your loads and data, they need to extract insights. You know, I keep saying, you know, we have data rich but insight poor and ultimately be able to consume it in a more flexible way. That's accelerating.

That's why I'm more positive about the it T spend than obviously the consumer spend. You've got cloud providers out there fighting for industries and companies that haven't yet moved their data to the cloud. Which companies are these and how does HPE win their business? Well, our strategy from the get go was to provide a hybrid experience for all your loads and data, and that's now very clear. When you talk to customers and partners, they tell you

the world is hybrid. At the same time, digital transformation is all about a journey to drive a data first, modernization data has gravity and has tremendous value, more value than ever we manage imagine before. So what customers are going through is a multi generational, a t journey, but

ultimately they need the hybrid experience. And so as customers think about compliance issues, regulatory issues obviously cyber issues and cost, they realize they need a platform to be able to conduct their business across whatever those worlds and data live and h speakering leg is the beating heart of our strategy, and they realize they can live in a multi cloud world, whatever public cloud environment they use, but also compliment with an amazing set of solutions on prem and more and

more of the edge. I think it's fair to recognize, Emily that seventy of the data is actually outside the public cloud sits at the edge, and more than thirty of that data needs to be processed real find and that's the opportunity for of US. HP is one of the largest companies that has moved its headquarters from Silicon Valley to Texas, and it really looks like we're seeing an inflection point in American social and political history right now.

What do you have to say to employees who might be upset that they've now moved to Texas and they can't access an abortion. Well, first of all, we decided to move our headquarters to Texas a couple of years back during the pandemic because I was in the process of building a state of the arts site for our Houston based employees, and I think about the ability to attractively can talent. I thought the opportunity to create two

very amazing sites. One is the San Jose where a lot of a thought leadership takes place, and one is in Houston, Texas, where a lot of the operational and back office takes place. But at the same time, you know, when you talk about this social challenges, listen and I'm an immigrant. They have been living now in the United States or more than twenty three years. And I'll to tell you, I'm incredible disappointed. This is not you know, politics is not about a specific state of the other.

But when we saw what we saw last last week, we as a company felt compelled to stand up inside by the women choice, meaning given them the choice what is right. And ultimately it was a company who offered amazing benefits where we actually pay for all the travels and the medical needs that they have if they decide to make the choice. Have you had any reconsiderations about hps own decision in light of the changes to the

social and political landscape. Are you hearing anything from employees who made that choice to move and now you know, are we considering No? Not. Remember we're a global company, Emily, I do business in a hundred seventy two countries. I have sixty thou team members all over the world. Uh and we encouraged because work to feedback and obviously we want to hear their voices. But at the same time we tell them go to the book and vote. Vote what you think is the right thing based on your

view of the issues. And we understand that sometimes we run into polarized views. But at the same time, we cannot address every individual issues again because whether it's one thing in the United States. You also realize we also do business in the rest of the world. But what we stand up is what is called to our purpose and value as you recall our purpose to it once the way we all live and work, and we need to be a force for good. And that's myself as

a leader of this company. I guide myself every single day, right sure, you also have employees who want to move from California to Texas as well. It works both ways, HP CEO Antonio Neary from your users conference in Las Vegas. Thank you so much for stopping by. Coming up, we are going to get a feel for institutional intimate about crypto and D five. Falcon X CEO ragu Yar Lagatta

coming up with me next. This is Bloomberg time now for crypto reported losses deep it with popular de fight tokens like Salana and Avalanche, Avalanche following more than sector bellweather Bitcoin. With all this, where does institutional sentiments stand for? More on that I want to bring in ragu Yar Lagatta, CEO of the crypto trading platform falcon X, which focuses on institutional investors. So where is sentiment ragu right now?

Good to be back Emily in terms of institutional interest in the space, in the shockdom and liam in definitely there is fear institutions are being verty cautious and by that what I mean is they're not taking directional bets. UH insure are focused on market neutral strategies like basis rate without taking directional better. The second point that institutions are feeling is the idiosyncratic risk that is coming from the liquidation cascades that we've seen in the space for

the last two months. That's definitely affecting crypto, and most of it I think is flushed through the system, but again for another two to three weeks, we've got to be very careful as a segment. Last, but not the least, is the the correlation, the high correlation to risk on assets, specifically high road text stalks. So we think that that correlation is also going to continue for the next few

quarters at the very least. But overall, if you look at the long term, we have seen the highest number of customers on board, highest activity on the platform, and that's to say that's bigger than Falconnect, and that's to say that institutional interest for the mid to long term on crypto and more broadly disclasses keeps continues to be strong. Meantime, you've got micro strategy buying more bitcoin. What do you make of them now, aximalist strategy versus other coins, other

options out there. Yeah, So for a large part of twenty twenty one and continuing into twenty twenty two as well, we've seen a lot of institutions go beyond just bitcoin and ethereum um. Early part of twenty twenty and through twenty twenty. Later part of twenty twenty definitely was all centered around bitcoin, but most institutions diversified beyond bitcoin into ethereum and some of the elements as well. That said, the micro sanctuaries, you know, buy a ten million dollars.

I think it's symbolic. It is a very strong signal despite the market conditions, that they're willing to double down on that, and that is something that a lot of institutions are watching out because that some institutions consider that to be a systemic risk if micro strategy rethinks that decision. So that signal is creating very good sentiment in the market. How is global sentiment evolving? For example, how is it different in the US versus Hong Kong versus let's say, Australia.

The interesting part is we are actually over the last month or two months, Emily, we're seeing a big divergence between different markets. For example, US is definitely trending towards a much more cautious side. Asia not as cautious as US, which means they're still exploring, you know, all coins but more broadly, over the last one month, UM institutions are not taking directional bets, and that all the price movements that we are seen are largely stemming from the retail

side of the equation. So US is in summary, US is tending towards the more conservative side. ASIA slightly more aggressive than the US, but holistically as a space, institutions are being very cautious. Now, you recently raised a hundred fifty million dollars in a new round of funding, eight billion dollar valuation, and as I understand it, this funding

game together in just a couple of weeks. How don't you make is to pull this off in like you know, a very dismal market, the market conditions in twenty two a very different emily to your point, yes, this is a very recent round, as recent as about two or three weeks back. And again the big hypothesis that US and some of the highest quality investors for growth stage are seeing right now when we're seeing data to prove

this hypothesis. The hypothesis is that Crypto, for the first time objectively proved that you can run full stack financial services, whether it's trading, banking, credit clearing, all of these services seven, truly globally and truly elastically. No company, no country so far has objectively proved that that can be possible, and crypto has done this at a trillion dollar scale. Now that is what we see in terms of the future of finance. To be right, I mean a lot of

world's value is going to be tokenized. We are actually seeing the data underneath that. As a result, despite the very tough market conditions, Q one we've remain profitable as a company. Q one we onboarded the highest number of customers and Q one we have the highest engagement in the platform, and that actually is because of the bigger thing at play, which is that this class of transformation.

We think equities and fixed income markets in the next five or ten years are going to be organized as well, and institutions want to play in that organized world. I have to ask where you stand in this debate. Are you a maximalist? Are you more of an ethereum other coin kind of guy? I do see you know block chains to be You know, in some business constructs you can compare them to marketplaces, any marketplaces economies of scale

and network effects. Bitcoin undoubtedly has the biggest network effects, but you know, compared to any other you know, cryptocurrency. But that being said, I don't think bitcoin alone will cater to every single use case that's out there. So definitely, I do think the world is bigger than bitcoin, but I don't think it is five thousand bikens either, So it's going to be a head heavy equation with like you know, five then getting the lead in a meaningfully

large way. All right, ragu y'allagatas CEO of falcon X, thank you for sharing your position with us. Let's get back to the markets on a largely flat day, investors and consumers just waiting to see if prices will come down and a recession will be avoided. For more. Now, I'm joined by Betterman CEO Sarah Levy, and Sarah, I know that many of your customers are affluent millennials who've got you know, a little bit of of of money in the bank, some assets to move around. How are

you advising them at this time? So, you know, it's interesting because philosophically, we have always believed in long term diversification, and so you know, we we attract a client base that believes in that philosophy and sort of stays the course. So in general, our advices stay the course, and I think in some ways we do our best in this sort of economy, um, in this sort of volatle market, because text mark technology is a huge part of the

value proposition that we offer. Betterment was actually founded during a downturn. What comparisons do you see between then and now? Well, it's interesting, you know, some would say better to be lucky than smart, right, so when when Betterment launched, um, we it was a downturn, and so we were able to put some quick wins on the board for our customers.

And I think that really holds true now as well. UM. You know, I know your last segment was on crypto and and we're entering the crypto market, and I think they're The similarity I would draw is where we are in the crypto space right now relative to where we were in the overall market, UM a decade ago when we were founded. I know you're working on a crypto product for launch later this year. What's your take on the broader crypto volatility? And you know Bitcoin at new lows.

You know, our view is that crypto continues to be an asset class to play for the long term, and we think about the asset class as a whole rather than thinking about the individual stories. So is it you know, Bitcoin or the rest of the coins kind of coming up behind. So our view is long term diversification works in the in traditional finance and similarly works in crypto.

And then from an advisory standpoint, you know, we believe this is not an all or nothing idea, but we're going to advise our clients to keep less than five percent of their portfolios in crypto as a diversification play. We have reported that f t X is Sam Bankman. Freed is interested in buying Robin Hood. What's your take on that? How how does that change the game. Well, it's interesting. You know, I think particularly self directed trading got a lot of excitement, and I think some combination

of crypto and options and single stocks. You know, folks thought that they were sort of smarter and more informed and that they could play the market in a really you know, self directed way, and I think that often ends badly. You know, in that market, we were preaching eat your vegetables, while they were preaching you know, here's a piece of cake. And I think now you come out on the other side and eat your vegetables feels

you know, pretty good and pretty tried and true. So you know, I think they're they're doing a variant of what we are. They're just doing it and self directed, you know, investing, whereas we're doing it in a sort of buy and hold advisory capacity. Is a recession inevitable in your view? And if so, when does it happen? You know, I don't like to prognosticate particularly on that.

I mean, you know, I think the monetary policy right now, um, that that the government is putting forth is important to cool inflation, and I think that's really the number one objective. And and threadning the needle is really the key. Um, you know, whether or not that needle is going to be thread between employment and inflation and and interest rates, um is really gonnaddict. What happens in the markets. How do you thread that needle in portfolio invest for basically

either scenario? Right? Well, I think again, you know, trying not to overreact. I mean, you know, we've, for example, behaviorally, don't nudge customers to make too many moves. And so when we think about the savings rate environment right now and that rate going up, one of the things we're gonna do is we're gonna put more cash and recommend

more cash into people's portfolios. But again, these are going to be sort of modest changes at the margin because on average and over time, right dollar cost averaging philosophically makes sense, um, you know, taking advantage of the text tools that are available to capture some extra beata there. Um. So we think there's a lot of good in diversification, you know, while we're seeing this market volatility. All right, Sorry leaving CEO of Betterment Sarah, thank you for taking

the time to join us, Thanks for having me. And that does it for this edition of Bloomberg Technology. Or to be right back here tomorrow. We've got a number of great guests, including CLEO Capital, Sarah Kuntz, and the CEO of Peak to talk about the travel season ahead of the fourth of July holiday. Don't we get to check out our new podcast meantime. You can find it on the terminal, Apple, Spotify, I Heart Radio, and anywhere you get your podcast. I'm Emily Chang in San Francisco.

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