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Meta agrees to deploy millions of Nvidia processors over the next few years, reinforcing its ties with the AI chip giant. Plus Meta's CEO Mark Zuckerberg is set to take the stand later today in a landmark social media addiction trial in Los Angeles. And we discussed some news in software and energy tech with the CEOs of Autodesk and heron later this hour.
Welcome to Bloomberg Tech.
The story right now in public markets when it comes to tech is we are rebounding a little bit then as that one hundred up more than a percentage point. Largely that's on strong or positive economic data. But I put the Philadelphia Semiconductor Index in there or socks because actually movements in chips and the mag seven is the news driver, the catalyst in some of what's happening at
the index level. That manifests in a deal between Meta and Nvidia for millions of invidious processors over a number of years. But this is clearly a driver of markets, at least in Vidia's case up almost three percent. Meta had been lower is now modestly higher. Let's get the details of bloombogs Ian King, who leads our coverage of semiconductors. So the reality is Meta is already the number two
customer for Nvidia. But this is an agreement over time, millions of chips, and we're not just talking Blackwell GPU, We're talking later generation Rubin and then the CPUs in each case. What are the kind of facts that we need to know?
Yeah, and networking as well. I mean, the frustrating part about it it is we don't have a definitive time period. But if we sort of back it out a million chips, their average selling price for in video of one GPU for the data center is about fifteen sixteen thousand dollars, probably as much as twice as that for a leading edge one. So you're already talking as much as Meta spends on in video gear in a year in just
the GPUs. Add on top of that the networking, add on top of that the CPUs, and obviously it feels like an extension, It feels like a bigger commitment to in video but they wouldn't say for sure.
You had a discussion with one of in Video's leaders in the data center and Infrastructure group, and part of the discussion was, this is the first big example of in Vidia selling the Grace CPU to market as a kind of standalone product.
Simple questions like.
What would you use a Grace CPU for other than you know, what's happening in AI. And that is why the number is probably tens of billions over that that time period.
Right, Yeah, I mean, it's definitely a step forward for them. It's definitely a market expansion for them. You remember Jensen told us this a while ago. He dropped a strong hint that this was coming. And here it is the key. The key thing to look at is all this is Intel's territory, this is Amb's territory, the general purpose processor for a data center that there's a lot of the
general computing task. What in Video is saying, Hey, we've got this CPU that was buried in the middle of all of this gear, but you can just use it on its own as well. That's a market extension for them if we see widespread adoption. Obviously, MATA is a good adoption case.
One of the other movers in the market this morning is AMD, which was to the downside.
I guess not surprising. The biggest story is in Vidia.
Kind of keeps rolling on and dominating the spend of the hyperscaler's plus Meta, which is not a hyperscaler, but that has the data center footprint of one. I was interested to go into the terminal and see, like Meta about nine percent of revenues from video, but Microsoft's number one, you know, double that. But the big picture is there right in video it seems dominant.
Yeah, I mean, you know, the background here is Microsoft, Meta, Amazon. They're all making their own CPUs. They're all trying to make their own accelerators. Any commitment to either in video or indeed AMD for exactly those parts is obviously something that investors want to see and is a strong sign for the chip makers themselves.
Bloomberg's Ian King on a story that again news driven catalyst for markets this morning. Investors are looking also to scoop up beaten down names after a stretch of choppy AI driven volatility. Morgan Stanley says the recent sell off, especially in software and services, was largely indiscriminate, with some companies hit harder despite strong fundamentals. Here's breakdown the AI impact across all sectors is Morgan Stanley Gooble Research director
Katie Huberty. I mean, it's such a detailed report that looks across stocks with a very wide lens. But in the here and now I want to go to that word indiscriminate and just that parag off of the report where you summarize the last few weeks, what do you think was happening right right?
So I think it's important on the back of the announcement that you just discussed to understand that we're in the very early innings of what is likely to be a ten trillion dollar CAPEX investment cycle. That investment cycle is underwritten by a productivity story.
As the technology diffuses into.
The market, there is real productivity acceleration, which is important because the last two decades we've been running at labor productivity that is half of normal levels. Because we knew this adoption story was going to be critical and it
was going to touch all sectors of the market. We have now five times over map the thirty six hundred stocks that we cover to understand rate of change, exposure, materiality, pricing, power, and it's on the back of that data that yes, we've been able to identify where there are companies that have been sold indiscriminately and there's a real opportunity. We
see that in software and services. In research, we're a heavy adopter of AI technology, and the conversations we're having right now with large language models is how do we connect those models to the applications and data that we
use every day to unlock the real potential. And so you can see that the list that we published last week, the thread across the software and services companies are where there is a data mode, whether that's credit or it's market data or its systems of record in financials or customer data.
This is the fifth time you've kind of done this exercise mapping global AI stocks, right, and you list margin expansion as the leading piece of evidence and so of ROI I'm thinking back to earlier in earning season when we had names like Salesforce Service Now and that part of the research report I flagged at the beginning fundamentals. You know, they didn't really get the benefit of the
doubt from the market. They showed actually quite a lot of real well deployment of that technology, but something you know isn't quite believed by the street.
What is that?
So what's really important in this data set is tracking rate of change.
So if you go back two.
Years ago, the big rate of change in exposure materiality was energy and utilities. That sector outperformed the most in twenty twenty four. Last year it was financials. At the beginning of twenty twenty five we highlighted as the biggest rate of change. Financials by many accounts, even outperformed parts
of the technology sector last year. Right now, of the rate of change is actually greatest in non tech categories, particularly in consumer and apparel, endurable goods, in autos and so Yes, we see areas of software that have been sold indiscriminately where there is a data mode and there's
an opportunity, but it's broader than just technology. What we see in the data is that the AI adopters are experiencing margin expansion that's double the market indices, double the MSCI World Index, double the S and P five hundred, and so we believe that there's a regime shift happening in the market away from a purely tech and specifically AI enabler leadership to now broadening of AI adoption and leadership not just in technology, but across all sectors.
Katie tied to this.
One of the big moments of last year was Morgan Stanley launching its private companies coverage, going much deeper on private companies who are so active in this world. Right, have you shifted existing analysts from public to private companies? Are you onboarding specific private analysts on specific domains?
We just have thirty seconds.
Right, So we believe that that the domain experts that cover the public companies are typically and best positioned to also cover private sectors. But there are areas of thematics, think humanoids and AI where we have shifted analysts from stock coverage to covering those thematics where there will be a lot of private company innovation, But most of the time that coverage comes from our existing public company domain experts.
Katie Ubertim Morgan Stanley, it's great to have you on Bloomberg Tech.
Thank you very much. Now, coming up on the show, we're going to.
Speak with Andrew and Egnost, Autodesk president and CEO. That conversation's next. This is Bloomberg Tech. Autodesk is leaning into the AI powered physical world. The company announced a two hundred million dollars strategic investment in AI research firm World Labs, its largest startup investment to date. Here to discuss Autodesk President and CEO Andrew and Egnouse.
Very interesting, Good morning to you. We've been looking at it.
We've been looking into this idea a lot, you know, through the beginning of twenty six, particularly in the context of industrial manufacturing, the future role of humanoid robots, how they come to learn the environment that they're in. People sometimes say digital twins, you have chosen what you believe to be the best player right for the sort of AI and software underpinning.
Of that thought. Why World Labs.
Yeah, Well, there's a couple of really important reasons. You know, First, we kind of share a common ethos. We believe that AI can enhance and expand human ingenuity, not replace it, and that's something that both World Labs and auditors share in common. But more importantly, you know, FAI, fe Lee, Autodesk others believe that the next frontier are world models.
This is the ability to simulate, predict, and react to real world constraints and virtual changes in world world constraints, virtual changes of design constraints within a virtual environment.
That means you really have to partner with.
Someone that's got deep expertise and spatial reasoning for AI.
That's why we're working.
With world Labs, and they picked us because we have deep expertise and deep data knowledge of what happens in a design and make process.
The technical challenge is to apply the physics of the real world into the virtual world, particularly when you're trying to simulate. I'm assuming that beyond the investment, there is a commercial arrangement here right where you're able to do something with World Labs technology. How does that manifest?
Yeah, so we're going to be working together with using world Labs technology with our tools. They're also going to get access to some of the proprietary models that we've built so that we can help them expand and create their ability to do deep spatial reasoning. So you'll see us initially lean into the media and entertainment space, but you know, as you said, this is much more expansive
than that and Autodesk. We're really interested in the mid market manufacturing space and mid market factories, small and mid sized factories in particular. This is going to be a high growth area, and these factories are going to need to be able to operate like the biggest factories in the world, but at a much smaller scale, and they need technology from US and technology from World Labs to do that.
You put out the announcement about the two hundred million dollar part of the strategic investment. Actually, later in the morning, world Labs confirmed they did a one billion dollar fundraise overall, so you're a big portion of it. What was the valuation that World Labs was assigned.
In that You'd have to talk to World Labs about that.
I'm not going to discuss what their valuations were, but you can reach out to that team.
The question is when does this become a real commercial opportunity for you then, Andrew, you know, when is it that you're going to be able to say in an earnings report this is something that resulted from that strategic investment.
You know, it's important ed for us to recognize that
in our space, AI is already returning value. I know there's a lot of hype out there, especially with the infrastructure build up and what's happened with large language models, but a lot of software companies, particularly Autodesk, have been investing in AI incrementally for a decade, so we're already delivering value today around the ability to simulate certain things like flooding, lighting lighting studies, the ability to simulate air and wind and noise studies using AI, the ability to
build preliminary models with AI that take into account structural constraints or the need to remove structural costraints, and helping people make better decisions the construction cycle. So AI is delivering value in our space today and regardless of what happens out there in the world, We're going to continue to invest over the next two, three, four, five years, so you'll see us continue to roll out incremental real value.
So it's happening now.
This is only going to allow us to accelerate deeper value into additional areas and into deeper parts of the design and make life cycle.
That's where I want to end it. You know, a lot of people ask what's the net result of all of this. We focused a lot on digital twins, virtual worlds. We discussed that is the result that you know, big facilities, manufacturing sites, plants get built quicker, the people inside them get trained more quickly. Humanoid robots are deployed in the real world more quickly.
Here's the big story in our space, Eddie. There is a massive capacity problem. There is not enough money, people and materials to build and rebuild everything in the world right now. Right now, people are building lots of data centers, a lot of infrastructure that serves day to day people in their lives, road rail, all sorts of things.
Doesn't get built while that's getting built.
We need to execute more projects with the same amount of people in the same capacity we have today, and we need to do it at an accelerated rate. That's something that's very unique about the design and build world, this fundamental capacity problem.
AI is going to be enabled to unlock that.
Andrew Anagnus autodes CEO, really appreciate your time on bloo Bow Tech.
Thank you.
In other earnings news, Palo Alto Network shares plunging having a difficult day after the cybersecurity company released a forecast for adjusted earnings that was weaker than anticipated, though it also boosted It's for your forecast for other key metrics, including revenue and remaining performance obligations. CEO nikesha Ora told us why he thinks the market is wrong about its reaction to the earnings.
This is this.
I think the market is not paying attention to our numbers carefully. We just complete We did our largest acquisition in cyber Arc.
We had a great quarter.
Our numbers are across every known consensus metric. The market is not understanding that our guidance for the next two quarters includes cyber Arc. If you take the consensus of cyber Arc and ours, who are actually getting above the collective consensus. But the market hasn't understood the dilution of shares, so I think they have it wrong.
Coming up, Apple Fast Tracks AI wearable devices, we have the Bloomberg recording.
Next, this is Bloomberg Tech.
Jeff Bezos Space Dot Up Blue Origin has shifted resources from space tourism to lunar projects. CEO Dave Limpz like with Bloomberg's and Marie Harden about the move while at the Defense Tech Summit.
Where it's such a pivotal moment around where space is and there's never been more demand, you know, the We have years worth of demand for our launch business, as does everybody that's launching. We're very constrained as a country in terms of the number of launch vehicles that we have right now, and our adversaries around the world are
not standing still. They're putting hundreds of billions of dollars into launch and into space, and especially as it relates to the Moon, which we haven't been on the Moon
for fifty years. We think it's really important for Blue, for the country, and it just made prudent sense from our standpoint to take the brilliant people that we're working on New Shepherd, pause that for a while we're planning for at least two years, and then repurpose them to even further accelerate our efforts in lunar and launch.
There was all this excitement I think about New Shepherd, especially because Katie Perry went to space and for civilians who maybe want to have that moment like.
Mark Bezos had. So do you think you'll go back to that at some point? Is it really just a pause?
I think we will. I think there's still you know, we had multiple years of backlog and that it was the easiest ticket to sell, was that, And so I think we'll likely go back into that business. But again, at the moment in time right now, it just makes more sense to focus on the Moon.
So it really is a space race, right now I don't you know.
I'm very much pro America and a capitalist, but I don't think we want another Spotnik moment. And we were the first to put boots on the moon, and I really feel like we want to put you know, we want to put boots on the moon. And this time the name of our group inside of Blue is Lunar Permanence, So we're not only racing to the moon to get there back again for the first time, but we want to keep people on the moon.
Blue Origin CEO Dave Limb speaking with Bloomberg's a Marie Horder and in other news, it's time for talking tech and first start or On Buffett's Berkshire Halfaway cut its Amazon steak by seventy five percent in the fourth quarter, reducing it to about two point three million shares, according to a regulatory filing. At the same time, it built a new position in The New York Times with five
point one million shares and continued trimming. According to the thirteen and a half document, its other holdings in Bank of America and Apple plus Uber and plans to invest more than one hundred million dollars to expand fast charging infrastructure for autonomous.
Evs in the US.
The company will build high capacity charging hubs in San Francisco, Los Angeles, and Dallas, the same market where it's preparing to roll out a public ROBOTAXI service. And Apple is breaking away from its tech pits. Bloomberg data show the iPhone maker's forty day correlation with the NASDAQ one hundred has dropped to its lowest level since two thousand and six as it largely sits out the AI arms rates, with rivals pouring money into AI related capex. Some investors
are starting to see Apple as an healing alternative. Let's power on and stay with Apple. The company's fast tracking work on three new wearables as it races to compete with AI powered hardware. Sources say the tech giant is developing smart glasses, a pendant, and AirPods with expanded AI capabilities. Bloomberg Consumer Tech and Apple managing editor Mark gum And break the story and it's with us. Okay, three distinct products, three distinct categories.
Let's go through what you've learned from sources.
Yeah, you know, Apple, they are sitting out the AI race in a way, but they're going to enter in an Apple way, and that means hardware blended with AI, blended with software, blended with services. And they're going to get there if they're able to pull off this new series, which I believe they will before the end of the year. And so three hardware products. One is smart glasses. These are going to be quite significant. They're going to compete with the metal product. They're likely going to be a
bit pricier. They're going to have dedicated cameras, one for media capture, one for computer vision. In terms of functionality, you'll get things like if you're taking a walk and you have turned by turn directions on.
Instead of it telling you make a right in four hundred and fifty.
Feet, it might say make a right at the gray building, becacause it sees your surroundings, or make a right past the white car. AirPods with cameras very similar AI functionality without the media capture functionality built into the earbuds that you know people already know and love. And then the pendant that's really an alternative product that is an accessory for the phone, your eyes and ears for the phone.
For AI in a sense similar functionality to the glasses.
And the AirPods, but not everyone wants to wear smart glasses, and so if Apple wants to provide that eyes and ears to the world, it's going to need some o their product, and that's what the pendant's for.
People aren't going to have AirPods in their ears at all times.
People aren't going to want to put glasses on their face in all cases, especially if they don't have vision correction needs.
So you need some sort of hand or necklace. So that's what they're developing as well.
Just fifteen seconds, Mark literally, but do these come this year? When do they get released?
I would expect the glasses and the pendant to be released next year in the air pods as early as this year.
The most Mark German, who leads all our consumer tech coverage, thank you very much. This is some interesting stuff going on in private markets, and actually the team at Bloomberg News do a really good job at going into those markets, looking at the documents and finding out stuff that actually
all markets want to know. Sally Bakewell leads our finance team, and in this case, the reporting is about what we know from sources from some of those private names in software who are coming to us a little bit earlier than normal and saying here's what's under the hood, here's what we're learning.
Just explain the reporting to us.
Yeah, that's exactly right. So these are private firms. They are owned by private equity firms which obviously borrowed in order to buy them. So these are company software firms that have bonds and loans outstanding. Now, a lot of debt tied to software has sold off in recent weeks, particularly software as a service, because investors are very worried about the threat of AI disruption potentially supplanting some of
those tasks. So we have seen billions of dollars of loans tied to US software and US tech slipping into distressed territory. Now, amid all of this concern we have had a couple of private software firms actually opening their earnings books a little bit early to investors in a bid to calm nerves to say that our earnings and our revenue are trucking along just fine. So we had the likes of McAfee, which showed that it's fourth quarter revenue held steady at about six d and twenty six
million compared to the year earlier. We had Rocket Software, which actually saw a five percent increase in twenty twenty five revenue, and we had Perforce Software which actually saw a slight decline, but it was just a slight decline. So the aim here is to say with software firms, but we are actually benefiting or we are handling, or we're dealing with.
At the AI threat.
Just for we start the conversation, the team in New York indulge me really going to the treasury market. This is quite an interesting opportunity to go to corporate credit and some of the unsecure bonds tied to those case studies because there's some reaction, right, like the companies tell them something we don't normally do this.
But how the bomb market react right?
Well, I mean a lot of this debt is actually senior secured, which means it is it is backed by collateral, it is high in the repayment line. They would have to see really significant impairment to experience any losses, so or significant losses. So this is one of the arguments that the private credit industry is coming out with at the moment in defense of software saying, you know, our software loan books look good. In fact, Blue Out Capital said it wasn't seeing let alone red flags. It wasn't
even seeing yellow flags in its software loan portfolio. And we've had the same sort of sentiment from a number of them. And what's the saying that it's a bit too early to see any degradation in software right now?
Bloomberg Sally Bakewell, thank you very much. We've spent a lot of time on the impact of AI on specific stocks.
What about the macro picture.
San Francisco FED president Mary Daily says, monetary policy makers need to be open to signs pointing to how the new technology could be changing the US economy.
Listen to this in productivity numbers, especially when they're happening in what I would think of as real time. It's very challenging to assess or draw it back to exactly what the factors are that have shaped it.
You know.
In fact, people still don't agree on what happened in the nineties all the time if you look at research. So it's just something to keep in mind. So then what you do would any good economist or person, any industry person would do is they'd say, well, what am I seeing? What am I seeing? And so right now, while we can't find it in the macro studies that would do very sophisticated empirical econometrics and ask the questions how much this is AI. We still can see that
there's something going on there. The question is it happening? The question is how long will it persist? And so clearly something's happening in the economy. But if you make a series to go back to your question about productivity, if you make a series of one time adjustments, so say you automate a production line or you use AI to help in loan application process, you save money once. You don't save money forever. I mean, you keep saving that money, but you don't get growth out of that.
You don't get productivity growth. You get one time adjustments to the level of productivity of your employees or your process. So what we're looking for is a technology to give us consistently good changes in productivity so that all industries at scale get better, industries figure out new ways to generate revenue, new ways to do product design, new ideas to come and shape the economy. That's the thing that has a sustained productivity growth parts. So it's undeniable. Productivity
growth has gone up. What's not as clear is how long will that last that.
Was San Francisco FED president Mary daily. Aber W's MGX is pouring billions into its AI bets with no plans of slowing down. Since it's launched in twenty twenty four, the fund has already invested in AI startups, chip makers, and data centers, with plans to raise an additional thirty billion dollars for infrastructure. Although fears of potential AI bubble rise,
the fund and its investment chief remain unfazed. Here with the details, Bloomberg Senior Tech editor Mike Shephard, We've been taking a very close look at the golf generally, but but MGX is an example, and in part our reporting is based on a conversation with that investment chief.
What do we need to know? Well, let's rate.
Our colleagues, Mark Bergen and Dineshire sat down and this was really the first of its kind interview with their AI investment chief Ali Yasma and their chief strategy officer David Scott, and they got a look at the inner workings of this firm, MGX, whose name is really showing up.
More and more.
Ed with all these AI related deals that we've been talking about, Let's go to anthropic MGX was a co lead investor in the latest fundraise. The company has also invested and taken stakes in xai and open Ai, really giving it, in a way, the triple Crown of AI investing. And there's more. They've also put money into the big Stargate AI data center venture here in the US, and also taken a stake in the new TikTok that we've spent so much time talking about. So MGX is really
a player in so many of these different areas. And one thing that struck me ed during the interview and reading the big take on this was that David Scott likened their approach not to a private equity firm or a venture capital fund, but really to Invidio, which you and I have seen from the the conference here in Washington in October, just how much Nvidia has tried to take stakes in cloud computing and software companies that tried
to feed the ecosystem of artificial intelligence. And this is just a sign of how Abu Dhabi, whose sovereign wealth fund bax MGX, is really trying to diversify its economy away from just energy and try to seize on the AI wave.
Now that's Abu Dhabi.
The other news headline of the morning was Saudi Arabia's Humane disclosing that it had participated in XAIS Series E round, which predated the merger of SpaceX.
What do we need to know there, Well, this is another key tie up between Humane which got had start just last year the Saudi's unveiled Humane, which is backed by the Public Investment Fund. Again we have state backed golf money going into this new Ai venture. It was announced just as President Donald Trump arrived in the Middle East for a high profile visit, high stakes visit with
golf leaders, and they are now deepening this partnership. Already in November, Human announced with Xai that would develop a five hundred megawatt data center in Saudi Arabia, and this just furthers that partnership and as a result, as a result of this investment, of course, they end up now with a stake in the much larger combined SpaceX, which
now counts XAI as a subsidiary. And Human is also looking to deploy more of Xai's technology, including the Grock chatbot, across Saudi Arabia, giving Elon Musk access to a key market that it could see develop going forward and of course, possibly more access to funding as his larger combined venture moves forward.
DEMX Mike Sheppard, thank you very much.
Now coming up, Drew Bagino, CEO of herom Power, joins us talk about the energy startup's latest funding round. He may be a familiar face and a familiar name, of course, long time Tesla executive now in a new domain.
That's next. This is bloom Bug Tech.
Heron Power, the energy startup founded by former Tesla executive Drew Baglino, has raised a one hundred and forty million dollar Series B. The company makes advanced electrical equipment for delivering power faster and more efficiently to projects like AI data centers. Drew us with us now here in San Francisco.
We have been tracking Heroin since its earlier days. This is, you know, a quick Series B, maybe in succession to the fundraising you did already, but importantly you bring Andreson in through the American Dynamism Fund, a new investor.
Let's start with that. Why go there?
First of all, thanks Ed for having me again on the program. I'm super proud to represent her and Arnor's major milestone today.
Yeah.
Well we're focused on building new technology and manufacturing in the United States, and that's really aligned with A sixteen Z's thesis through their American Dynamism Fund, and we just found alignment on our future vision of how we can revolutionize the electricity sector in the US.
Together.
In the time that I've known you, but particularly since you've been working on Heroin, you know you've been pretty transparent. You know, what you're trying to do is rethink a technology essentially and where it fits into modernizing grades, data center, the big energy capacity.
Build out, which we'll get to.
Is there something more than just the capital that the A sixteen Ze can help you with there.
They're an amazing firm. They've got resources across recruiting, in finance, in policy. They're great thought partners for us along with our existing investor team as we set off on this ambitious adventure.
So you kind of still an R and D phase right now. Maybe just explain what Heroin is and what Heroin does and then we can go from that.
Sure, what Hearn's trying to do is take really four decades of innovation and power semiconductors that have happened in parallel to like the More's law, improvement in transistors that are in compute and bring them to the core of the grid. Right now, the grid is using largely mechanical devices that were invented like a century ago, and that is still what's underpinning everything in the power distribution sector.
But at the same time, we've leveraged amazing improvements in power transistors truly like orders of magnitude, capability and cost reductions that have enabled all the innovation at the grid's edge. Compute, you know, consumer electronics, it communications. We're bringing that to a sector that hasn't seen much change, which is the electricity sector itself.
You have made some commercial progress basically, you know, even if you're in R and D phase. One of the case we talked about previously is with Crusoe, which right is in the AI date center context. Yeah, but just in Layman's terms, where would Heron fit in in the buildouts of a new data center?
Absolutely, So, what Heron is doing is really three things for a data center developer. First, we're offering them like an alternative supply, like right now they're waiting for equipment that's largely produced overseas potentially two or three years. And yeah, we're building it at home, and we're building it with completely different supply chain that's way more scalable, no more steel and oil, replacing it with silicon and software. Second,
we're simplifying what they need to build out. You know, we're moving seventy percent of the gear on the way from the grid to the chip. That means less labor to find in the field, less time in the construction schedule. And the third thing we're doing is reducing the losses from grid to chip by a factor of four, which means for the same power interconnection, which as we know it could be difficult, you can produce that many more tokens very quickly.
What is the go live date? You know, when is this going to be foid commercially?
Do you think, Yeah, we're going to deploy ourselves this year with early customers with revenue units in early twenty seven, and then mass production in late twenty seven.
Data center gets a lot of the focus.
The other big story, which I think you'll appreciate, is what is happening with energy generation energy storage right Elon Musk has this one hundred gigawatts solar goal. Yeah, you ran that business on the energy side at Tesla for a long time. You understand the reality of that number. Please also feel like, you know, to jump in where heron would fit in with that. But what do you make of that goal?
Oh? I think it's fantastic.
I mean, globally we saw over half a terrot lote five hundred gigwats of solar installed last year and that number isn't going to go down anytime soon. Really, the electricity sector is at a pivotal moment. You know, electricity has meant prosperity and growth for people all over the world for the past decades. But now it's at this juncture right. We've got AI that needs way more power and electricity abundant renewable electricity can be a path to
an all sustainable, all electric energy economy. And to do that we need more renewable energy and we need more electricity.
Is one hundred giga? What's in the United States like achievable?
Oh?
I mean, of course, you know, if you put your mind to something, no matter how difficult it is, you can accomplish it. I can say that from two decades of experience scaling new technologies from nothing to you know, millions of units.
Yeah, like I think it's possible, and that would be an addressable market for Heroin one hundred percent.
Yeah, we're going after solar, We're going after batteries, data centers, really anywhere where you need to go from DC to medium voltage AC. That's what hearn Link is for.
Three bagging, you know, CEO of heron formerly of course it tests like great to have you back here on Bloomberg Tech. Meta CEO Mark Zuckerberg is set to take the stand later today in a trial alleging his company's products and Google's YouTube We're designed to addict young people claims that both companies deny. Social media platforms, including Meta,
are actually facing thousands of similar cases. That's in addition to claims brought by various state attorneys general alleging that these products cause harm in some way to users.
Let's discuss with Sasha Howe.
She's the executive director of the Tech Oversight Project and advocacy group that urges reducing the power of big tech. And like from me off, you're very much on the side of the alleged victims in this case, right. I think that's important to set out early and there has been this criticism of big tech, but particularly the social media platforms for.
A long time.
In the context of this trial today where mister Zuckerberg will testify later in the day, what's different this time.
Well, this is, as you alluded to earlier, big Tech's big tobacco moment. It's the moment that tech accountability organizations like mine as well as countless parents who have been touched in some way by the harms that social media
addiction have caused. Where we are going to see Mark Zuckerberg raised his right hand, take an oath before a judge and a jury of his peers, and for the first time explain to a court of law why his company knowingly developed products that targeted children to get them hooked and then continue to feed them algorithmic content that did irretrievable harm. And what's different because he's also told
that to Congress. But he's going to have to explain why, despite telling us the public as well as members of Congress that their products were safe for kids, why he systematically buried internal research and data showing there is a connection and showing they did know that their products were addictive, and showing they did know that their products were harmful. So for many parents. This is the first step to hold big tech executives like Mark Zuckerberg accountable.
And what you just said, Sasha.
Meta's response to this particular lawsuit is we strongly disagree with these allegations that are confident the evidence will show our long standing commitment to supporting young people. Mark Zuckerberg is going to testify later today. Why is his testimony specifically significant and what is it that the Tech Oversight Project would hope he's asked about during that process.
Well, the evidence has already shown that there have been many internal surveys, again conducted by Meta and in some cases partnering with external companies survey firms such as Nielsen, to uncover whether there was a connection between social media overuse, social media addiction, or as the Instagram executives uphemistically referred to as problematic use and you know, harmful behavior, and there was After about a week of not using social media,
users reported that they feel better about themselves, they didn't have this compulsive need to pick up their phone, their mental health improved. Instead of alerting the public to this potential health threat, they buried the research and never let it see the light of day, which is why Mark Zuckerberg can testify before Congress claiming that the research is inconclusive.
Another study that Adam Masi, the CEO of Instagram, had to explain the other day when he testified was something called Project myst which surveyed over one thousand teens and parents, again showing that the parental controls which big tech executives point to as one of the reasons why their products are safe for kids to use, essentially useless.
I appreciate summary of the events of the trials, so I far. My question is why significant that Mark Zuckerberg testifies later today and what is it that you hope he has asked in that process.
Well, it's significant because this evidence has never before been seen and he is not going to be able to say, hmm, Senator, I don't recall. Let let my office get back to your office about that, and then walk away and never have to think about it again.
This is a judge and jury.
This is a court of law.
The law comes for everyone. And if you have created a product that is unsafe for kids, that actually has been shown to kill kids, and you've lied about it to the public and buried research when you could have been warning us to the dangers, You're going to be held accountable. So that's why it's significant he's never before had to answer to that. As far as the outcomes, I really hope that we see lasting policy change because of this.
These are individual.
Harms cases and so the individual outcomes might differ, but I hope that the US Congress is compelled to act after these trials conclude.
Executive director of the Tech Overside Project, Thank you very much. That does it for this edition of Bloomberg Tech, And what an addition it's been. There is a bit more calm in the market right now. There is a lot driving the markets in terms of newsflow, and we got through a lot of that in the program. So recap it on the podcast. You know where to find it. It's on the Bloomberg terminal as well as online on iHeart, Spotify, and on Apple. This is Bloomberg Tech.