Elon Musk and the SEC, and Uber's Super App

hotels to a pilot program and it's super apt. Push will tell you how CEO Dara kus Rashah he wants to expand beyond rides and food delivery, and bitcoin is now underway in Miami. We will bring you the latest from the cryptoconference and catch up with some of the attendees later this hour. The big are in tech, of course, Elon Musk joining the board of Twitter twenty four hours after his nine point two percent stake in the company was disclosed. What does this mean from the platform's future?

I want to dig deeper into this with Daphney Keller, director of the Program on Platform Regulation at the Stanford Cyber Policy Center. Daphney, great to have you back with us. So it's been a War one seventy two hours. In just the last twenty four hours, Musk has now filed to become an active investor in Twitter, not just a passive investor, meaning that he will advocate for changes. What influence do you think Musk will have on the platform?

How will Twitter change as a result of his board membership. Well, I don't think anyone knows, and you know, there there are a lot of predictions people could make. But one thing that's particularly interesting is the possibility that he will join Jack Dorsey and current CEO agerwal in promoting decentralized models in you know, promoting ways to allow third parties to come in and offer different content moderations systems on top of Twitter or different content ranking systems, which would

be a really important ship that had happened. So Twitter's Blue Sky project, which is this push for an open, decentralized standard for social media that is funded by Twitter. You know, is this something that you think Musk could or would take on? And you know what specifically would you be looking to change? Well, so the upside of the project is that it would let Twitter users pick

the speech rules they want to live under. You know, they could sign up for a Disney flavor, or a church affiliated or Black Lives Matter affiliated flavor of the ranking, or of the rules on harassment or violence or nudity. So all of these things would allow Twitter to step back from being the one gatekeeper that decides the speech rules and bring in lots of different options for users.

So you can see Musk, who has talked about, you know, open sourcing the algorithms and and is broadly interested in decentralization liking that um. On the other hand, you can see him liking consolidated control and preferring a world where Twitter does set the rules. So I think you know, it's it's a wait and see situation for sure. Could this have repercussions for other social platforms like Facebook? Sure?

In a way, you can see Project Blue Sky, which is about decentralizing rules, bringing in more decision makers and more options for users, as like a counterpart of Facebook's oversight Board. In both cases, it's platforms saying we're uneasy being the deciders, especially on issues that divide the public so much that somebody is going to be angry no matter what we do, and so we would like to

hand that role to someone else. Facebook's answer was keep it extremely centralized, funded with Facebook money, and build the

oversight board to decide cases. And Twitter's answer answer with blues Styde potentially is to say, let's decentralize this, Let's put lots of different people in charge and sort of devolve control to the users that they can choose what they want and move the costs, incidentally, of all this content moderation out onto other competitors, so it's not sitting with Twitter where it's very expensive and very difficult as

part of their business. Right now, now, the biggest, perhaps most existential question is what could this mean for free speech on Twitter and in general. Take a listen to a professor Jennifer Grigel from Syracuse University when I asked her how this could change how Twitter handles free speech. This really isn't about free speech. If anything, Twitter has just become a little bit more about you on speech. You just ball a large portion of this company and

gets the kind of steer what happens there now. If anything, he's figured out that this is a oracle platform. Maybe he took some notes from Mark Zuckerberg and others that you need to have some influence over a platform. Daphne do you think this is more about Elon's speech and and and and how could this influence future moderation efforts at Twitter? Well, it would be more about Elon speech if we stay in the world of Twitter being a single centralized point of control over the rules that are

imposed on users and their speech. So if we don't go in this decentralized direction that we've been talking about and that Jack Dorsey has been talking about for a few years, um, and instead there's just one decider in the middle, then obviously Elon Musk's roll there is really important. Um. But I don't think we should foresee a world where Twitter becomes, you know, a free speech mosh pit, free for all, because they're not going to make money that way.

You know, if if you get onto Twitter and you can't help seeing a bunch of racist comments or bullying or spam or you know, all of these things that users don't like and that advertisers don't like, um, that is not a way to retain users or or to be profitable. So I don't think we should imagine a world where if anything goes on Twitter, it's you know, at most a world where Twitter still imposes its own

rules but they're more influenced by Elon Musk. But possibly this really interesting other direction where Twitter steps back and gives users a choice. You know, you can choose to live under Twitter's rules, or you can choose to live under some other rules, which brings me to the question of Donald Trump and could just open the door to president former President Trump coming back to Twitter after being permanently banned. I've asked Ned Siegel, the CFO, this question

several times over the last year. Is there a path for Trump to come back? Take a listen to what he's had to say. One somebody is removed from Twitter, there isn't a path for them to come back. Uh. And that's true for public officials, is true for anybody else who uses the service as well. Now, Trump, in a lawsuit against Twitter back in January, said Twitter has

increasingly engaged in impermissible censorship. The immediacy of its threat to users and potentially every citizen's right to free speech cannot be overstated. Twitter censorship results in a chilling effect on our nation's pressing political, medical, social, and cultural discussions. Does former President Trump have a point? And do you see Elon Musk coming back? You know, could they reopen

this question of whether he should be on the platform. Well, former President Trump does not have a legal point as a legal argument. This lawsuit is nonsense because private platforms don't owe you First Amendment protection the way that the government does. And courts have said this over and over

again in cases very much like this Trump lawsuits. Um. But as a matter of public policy and things that we care about, Uh, is it a problem that there are a small handful of giant companies that really have a chokehold over what speech and information we can share and see? Yes, you know, of course people are worried about that. And so you know, I can imagine a future where Twitter's version of its content moderation continues to

have former President Trump band for life. But there are alternatives. Um, you know, a lens on Twitter offered by some competitor that does allow him to come back, and then users can choose which of those universes they want to live in. Interesting. So you think that Twitter could find a middle ground here with when it comes to President Trump. Well, so imagine you know, their users can choose from fifty different flavors of competing content moderation services built on top of

Twitter um. One version of that is an entirely federated system, meaning there is no centralized control, kind of like math stood on now, and so you know, in that version, anyone can build a system where President Trump does come back, and it's just a question of whether users want to

sign up for that. I think what's more plausible as a future development with Project Blue Sky is a sort of hub and spoke model where Twitter does take some things down at the center, like things that are illegal or honoring d m c A notices, um, and then what left goes out to the you know, the competing offerers of content moderation services, and they can decide among

among those things that are left. So more like how Reddit does some centralized content moderation, but then most of the decisions are made by different subreddits, you know, applying their own different policies. You know. So Twitter could choose to say, you know, we're going to take down all the illegal stuff at the center so no one can

see it. And also some things violate our own policies so badly that we're also going to keep that down permanently for all of that, you know, competing flavors of content moderation but I just think that would be a step one flavors. We'll see if Twitter moves in that direction. Daphne Keller, director of the Program and Platform Regulation at

the Stanford Hyper Policy Center. Thank you well. Elon Musk's swift ascent from Twitter shareholder board member could catch the eye of the SEC in this at a time when the Commission is demanding more transparency from big investors and ratcheting up fines for breaking rules. Here to talk about that and more, Bloomberg's Matt Robinson, who covers the SEC for US. So, Matt, is there any indication that the

SEC is looking at this yet? Not yet, But the SEC is looking at Elon Musk and his brother for insider trading or potential insider trading issues about a share sale last fall. So uh, you know, as we know, the SEC and Elon Musco go back, you know, quite a few years now from teen with his infamous funding secured tweet and the subsequent penalty and settlement which limits ability to talk about his company on the platform. Now,

Elon Musk initially filed to be a passive investor. We know now in the last twenty four hours he's changed that to become an active investor. We also know he started buying shares starting back in January. The CEO Twitter, Paragua Agarwal, said that they had actually been talking for weeks now, perhaps it could actually be months. What's significant about that to you when it comes to the interest of the SEC. So those are so the two different

filings that, um, you know big investors have to disclose. Um, you know, we have a thirteen G, which is someone who's taking a passive steak, someone who doesn't have any interest in seeking any sort of business plans or changes, and then the thirteen D, which is what he filed yesterday. So there is room for from foreign investor to go from a thirteen G, which is the you know, um, the passive side, to an activist side. So, um, there

are so by updating that, that's that's fine. The issue that Elon Musky may find himself into is that he, um, you know, as soon as you hit five percent, you have to disclose within ten calendar days, and it looks like he may have missed that window. So that is sort of a technical violation that he could see see some issues, but the SEC is generally they don't really bring those cases unless it's kind of repeated failures. How fast can we see the SEC move on with move on,

move on this? Well, you know they it's obviously just happened. I mean, if it has, if they haven't you know, started an investigation in a couple of weeks, you know, is its smooth sailing? It's it's certainly could be quick.

I mean, if you're back in eighteen you know, if I remember correctly, it was like early August that he brought the funny Security and at the end of September the SEC suit elon Musk So, I mean, if there's um, you know, the facts and and the certainly the motivation there from the SEC if they feel like this is an important case to bring that you know this is going to show too too, mus get to other investors that you know you have to take these sources of

disclosure rules. Um SERI slee and promptly all right, Bloomberg Smott Robinson, who covers the SEC for us, thank you, coming up, darks Rasha. He is pushing Uber closer to becoming the go to travel app, adding long distance travel like planes, trains, hotels. Will it work? Could Uber be the next super app? We will explore next. This is Bloomberg. Let's get to Uber's continued push to become a super app. The ridehilling company planning to launch a pilot project in

the UK that will integrate offers from travel partners. That means customers will soon be able to book long distance travel on planes, trains, buses, even hotels. Bloombergs Jackie Delavlos has more so, how exactly will this work, Jackie? From a customer's perspective, it's going to be a one stop

shop for transportation. Now. While we were able to get a cab to the airport, now when you're at the airport, you know you can hail or book the next train ride or your bus from whatever city you're going to. It's really going to become a much more comprehensive travel hub. Now for Uber, this is the next step in their super app strategy. This is not something that is completely new. They telegraphed this even, you know, back in ten dar casra Shaw he had this big idea that it could

become a super app. And when you think about it, it's not a concept that is very well known to Westerners in particular, but in Asia it's huge. Uber has a stake in Grab, which is one of the biggest players and examples of a super app where you can access payments, you can hail a ride, you can get food delivery, all in one. So this is a major step really jump starting those efforts for Uber. Now. You

and I just spent time with Dara Cosa Shaw. He at shop Talk a couple of weeks ago, and he talked about this vision to deliver the future of retail, not just food. Take a listen to what he had to say when I asked specifically about these super app ambitions. So what we're doing essentially is building the largest local

commerce and transportation platform on Earth. UM the users, riders, consumers get the ease of essentially being able to go and go anywhere, get anything same I d same payments, etcetera. We know the locations that you like to go or restaurants that you love, Jackie. It all sounds good, But how will this or could this help Uber's bottom line or could it hurt Well, when you think about this particular long distance travel move, the way it's going to

be done is by using online travel aggregators. So think of an Expedia or a Booking They're the ones that are actually booking the ticket, but Uber is taking a cut out of that sale. It's a really high margin tie of strategy where you know, they're not the ones having the having to get that plane or the train, the actual hardware. What they're doing is just facilitating this this sale for customers that are already very engaged on

their app. When you think about the different ways that Uber can tap people's lives, you know, you can book a restaurant, take a ride to the restaurant, pay for the meal. UH. The opportunity for growth is very, very significant. So what does this mean for competition? You know, especially given this is launching in the UK. Obviously there are big travel competitors like Expedia Bookings. You know, what does this mean for the rest of the industry For some

of its direct competitors. Let's take you know, rideshare Lift for example. If this kind of a long distance rollout were to reach North America, it would be a huge blow for Lift, who doesn't have the kind of UH cushion that Uber has with its food delivery business. And also when you think about some of the marketplaces that are also vye to keep their customers on their apps, longer.

Whether it's door Dash or insta cart, this is going to be a significant challenge, especially if upers making it easy to do all the things in the app, whether it's you know, a ride or a meal, convenience items retail. Uh so, I think it's rapid delivery. It's going to really um you know up the ante for marketplaces and rideshare rivals h to to find ways to keep customers on the app. Alright, we'll be watching how this plays.

Applom works. Jackie Doagulos, thank you. She is one of the most popular stars on Twitch with more than a million followers. Meat iron Mouse. She not only plays some of the most popular video games on the streaming site, but also sings karaoke and cracks jokes to her many followers. For more on the ride is of iron Mouse and other v tubers, I'm joined by Bloomberg Cecilia Donastasio, who covers the gaming industry for US. So who is Iron

Mouse and why has she gotten so popular? Iron Mouse is an anonymous woman Puerto Rican woman who became very popular on Twitch and on YouTube for live streaming herself as a virtual anime character through motion capture technology. Iron mouse kind of moves in front of a camera and that gets fed through animation software and that is what you see on screen. You see a v tuber or virtual YouTuber. So what don't we know about the woman

behind this character. We don't know anything about the woman behind this character, but um, she keeps herself anonymous just to protect for her own safety. So talk to us about the rise of v tubers and who else is falling into the popular category. There are seventeen thousand v tubers right now. Iron Mouse broke records, recently becoming the most subscribed to woman on Twitch and the most popular

vituber on Twitch last month. But vtubing has become a sensation over the last couple of years, with an over four hundred and sixty seven percent increase between two thousand and twenty and two thousand twenty one. And fans love it. They love the feeling of interacting live with an anime character, um or a person kind of presenting themselves as an anime character. You know. Obviously we've talked a lot about the rise of YouTubers and the kind of money they

can make. I mean, is there a lot of money to be made? Here are their careers to be made here for a select few. There is money to be made and there are careers to be had. There are UM some larger brands who have invested in v tubers, particularly in Japanese vitubers. Companies like Sega have been involved UM in sort of helping sponsor companies. The first v tuber, Kazuna ai UM has done enormous deals with even like

the Japanese Tourism agency UM. But generally king it is a competitive field right now, and only the top people with the best technology. You're going to succeed on the level of Iron Mouse House, all right, Cecilia Donastasio. Fascinating. We'll have to try to learn more details about Iron Mouse. Thank you for sharing that. Coming up, they just raised nearly two billion dollars. Looking at that big on tech. My exclusive conversation with lead Edge Capitals Mitchell green Up. Next,

Welcome back to Bloomberg Technology. I'm Emily Check in San Francisco. What goes up must come down, right My next guest thinks tech valuations have gotten ahead of themselves and it has launched a new fund to put new money to work in this rapidly changing macro environment. Joining me now for more. Founding partner of lead Edge Capital, Mitchell Green. Mitch, great to have you back with us. So how do you think valuations are high right now? Are they too high?

And what's next? Thanks? I only thanks to much for happing me on. Are we talking public or private company evaluations? Both? Both? Um? So we look at me. Anybody watching the markets has obviously seen that, especially in the software internet world, UM,

public evaluations have come down, you know, fairly dramatically. Um, You wouldn't know what in the induscry has given just how much of the induscry has weighted towards like you know, the large camp companies like Apple and you know, um, you know Microsoft and Facebook and Google and stuff like that. But but underneath those, you know, companies like Snowflake or Toast or you know Acta or you know, these companies have come down hugely dramatically. And you know, public companies

tend to you know, lead private company evaluations. And I think you will start to see and we're starting to see private company evaluations to climb. Um. You've had a lot of crossover hedge funds that had entered that had been into the space over the last five years, and you know we're looking at some large deals right now. That is you know, six months ago, it would have been kind of swarmed easily, you know, fifty sixty million dollar revenue companies that would have been swarmed by a

crossoverpublic investors. And I think in this deal there's like one looking at it, So it should be a good din. Depressed valuations and less competition should be a good time to you know, uh deploy money. Right, So how do you plan to put this new one nine five billion dollars to work? Yeah? So UM s any way, we

have been UM for many, many years. You know, we deployed our last fund, UM nine million dollar fund in like fifteen months, and so you know we want this fund to take you know two and a half to three years, two and a half years, three or to three years to invest. And so UM continuing to do what we do. You know, we're primarily uh Western European

uh you know, UM North American investors. We've done some stuff in Asia over the year as companies like Aunt or Bite Dance, Sarah Ali Babbo Group, we were early investors in, but primarily US and Western European and Israeli based software, internet companies and fintech companies. So you know, when you when you look at valuations, are are you changing your own bar in terms of what is reasonable? And do you think more broadly, we're just gonna see

a lot of air get let out of the balloon. Yeah, So since we our biggest mistakes, to be clear, over the last five ten years was UM not predicting multiple expansion. UM. Had we we would have made our LPs billions of dollars more than we've made. We've done really well, but

we would have made a lot more UM. And you know, look the way we the way we mob way we make investments is we build five year models and this is this is new, different today that it was five years ago, and we slapped a reasonable you know, earnings

and revenue multiple on them and and discount back. Um. There were a bunch of deals getting down over the last twelve you know, starting kind of like there are a bunch of deals I got done in one that we could not figure out how people were underwriting these

these these valuations. Was when we stuck in our exit multiples, which we thought were reasonable based on historical averages, Like we just couldn't get there at all, um, And it's just we just you know, we kind of use a historical average multiple to excess stuff and we'll continue to do that. And so I think what's interesting is it in fund five we just raised Fund six. Um, we've only done one or two deals in the Bay Area, and a lot of our deals were just some like

random other places around the world. Um, you know, in Arbor, Michigan. It was one of our biggest investments in Fund five. We just thought you got better valuations there. It's not because we don't like stuff on the coast. I think in Fund six you will see us do more stuff on the coasts, just because I think valuations are getting to be more reasonable now. Online payments company Fast just close shop yesterday saying they simply ran out of money.

Are we gonna see this happen more often? I'm sure you will. So, yes, I'm sure you will. We have this one criteria that is super important to us called capital efficiency. And it's like our version of return on equity. It's like the very dumb persons and our views return on equity. Um, it's not like based in scientific fact. But what it is is is it are your revenues today, are your recurring revenues today or your annual recurring revenue are are greater or equal to the amount of money

you've burned since day one of the business. Now, maybe you've raised a bunch of money, but if it's sitting in the bank, don't blame the entrepreneur. So, in other words, the world, the world is littered with like thirty million dollar revenue companies growing fast that have burned like a

hundred million dollars to get there. But what we want to find the companies that are like thirty million of revenue that have burned like ten million dollars to get there, because those are companies that you know are just not going to like fall off a cliff if times get tough. Um. They also just if you can grow fast and not burn much money, you've got a good business. So it's just like a simple like a check that and every deal that we invest in, we we rate it. Is

it a capital efficient or not. Now, not all the companies we've invested in our but the vast majority are just What are your thoughts? What are your thoughts on the crypto market? Where do you see hype and where do you see opportunity. Well, I think it's a giant bubble. Um. But we to be completely fair, we have not. Um, we have not. We've looked at some of this stuff in grypto more on, like the pis and shovels businesses, like a business called chain analysis. We looked at early

we're not investors benchmark as an early investor. So where do you see the giant bubble? I'll know the right price for bitcoin is sixty seventy thousand, twenty tho or five. I just of this when I have a lot of random friends who know nothing about investing in telling me it's easy to make money in crypto, Like that smells bubble to me. I also Um, one of my buddies who has better really early investor in crypto and made

a lot of money on it. And somebody I guess I should like I should have listened to UM say he's convinced that like every fraud ster in the world is now in the crypto world, like like this stuff is real and by if you believe that like crypto crypto is the next like Internet, then you might see a draw out of or but the stuff is real, Like I I just think a lot of this stuff is overhyped and like is not justified at all in um in you know, in fundamental fundamental investing. But I

do think it's real. I do think it's here to say, one really interesting thing about crypto is it's like to like, it's really volatile. So I was reading recently what I saw that like Tesla was enabling you at one point to be able to pay for Tesla's in bitcoin. I thought that was like super cool. You could take a doubt, you could take a currency and use it for an

exchange of goods or services. The problem is is, like and the reason they got rid of it, and why I think you haven't seen Amazon and other big weakdail or start to accept it is these currencies are just too volatile. Like I think there's been like something like ten days where bitcoin is moved like in a day, Like the biggest US dollar move ever like a U S dour Euro move ever has been like one and a half percent, and it's happened like five times. So

these things are just too volatile right now. But I do think they're real. Yeah, all right, interesting little monologue there. Richell Green, founding partner at lead Edge capital some strong opinions. We'll see how you put your money to work. Thank you. Meantime, billionaire crypto investor Michael Novegrat says that once the FED takes a pause, Bitcoin could take off again, or in his words, bitcoin goes to the moon. Novograts leads Galaxy

Digital Holdings at the Bitcoin conference in Miami. Novograts reiterator to call that bit and will eventually hit a price of one million dollars. It was trading today at a little over forty four thousand. He really truly understands the value of cryptocurrency, whether it be uh, you know, bitcoin or doge coin. He has and he knows the value

of open source network. So what I think is going to be interesting is is he going to bring these elements of the crypto world, these anti censorship not elements, the open source elements and allow for a way for new people to come in and maybe import their own algorithm. H Time now for our crypto report. That was the Blockchain Associations Kristin Smith saying it's a good thing for Twitter that Elon Musk is now on board this day three, how of this developing story and I want to dig

a to it all with our crypto Contributornelli Bostick. Jan Ali would love to hear how the crypto community is digesting Elon Musk joining the board of Twitter, given he's such He's been such a loud figure in the crypto community. There's a huge crypto community on Twitter, and the future of Twitter could be more decentralized. Yeah, it was interesting to hear christ and Smith talk about it from the decentralized social network standpoint, because you could also emily think

about it from a commerce standpoint. Remember, Twitter has already started to integrate pieces of the Lightning Network here to be able to make some payments possible via the platform through the Lightning Network, which is obviously a very popular project when it comes to bitcoin and payment transfers. But the idea of decentralizing social media, there are a lot of projects out there that people try to use when it comes to media and decentralization, but they're still in

early days. Now. The question is can Twitter play a bigger role in the space? Alright, Janel I say with us, I want to bring in our next guest who is joining us live from the Bitcoino conference in Miami, Pascal go taste, CEO and chairman of the crypto security startup Ledger. Before we dig in, Pascal, I'd love for you to give us a flavor of bitcoino this year. Of course it was big last year. Is it even bigger this year? And what are people talking about? Yeah, this year is

very intense. Last year sadly I couldn't come because European and so I couldn't I wasn't allowed to travel to the US. But what I know from what people tell me, it's like this year is even more intense of last year.

I think, you know, we're post pandemic, and so you know, people are very happy to meet, like a meeting with people that I've only met online so far, and right now, you know, it's a very happy moment and you can see that it's it's it's really going very strong with a lot of support from you know, all communities that are going towards bitcoins. So it's a great moment for bitcoin. Ledger is known for its crypto hardware wallet and you're

out with a new one. How is this new better improved? Well, it's just that you know, crypto currencies are evolving, and so with the evolution of the protocols and the evolution of like you know, the application that's seen on top of protocols. You just need new hardware to enhance the experience. And you know the Ledger nos plus is it's just the result of that, Like you need norse, you need more space, you know, you need more usability, and so this is what's happening. So it's a product that was

long overdue. It's out now in the market, and there will be many more products coming for Ledger in the future. You know, there have been a lot more instances of scams and hacks and the n f T and in the DeFi space. How is Ledger attracking attacking? What's happening here? And can you keep up with the technology that hackers are using to to get into new spaces? Yes, of course, I mean you know hikers are always hiking in exactly

the same way. You know, the problem is education in the space, and you know people are understanding that they need hardware security. Just think you're their assets. You know, this is the fundamental truth of cryptocurrencies n f T. I mean, anything that has a private key needs hardware security, and so people need to learn and usually you know they sometimes they learn the hardware and we're sorry for that.

But when it comes to n f T, you know, NFT is treated as a first class citizen on all Ledger products, and right now, depending on the n f T collection, you've got between twenty five and four of all n f T s that are already secured by Ledgers. So I think we're doing our job and you know the communities are responding well and using our product to secure themselves. What do you think about competition in the space also, you know there's news of Jack Dorsey and

the block working on hardware wallets. Are you nervous about that and how does it change the competition when it comes to the wallet space. Well, first, I think competition is always welcome. You know, it means that there is a space and it means that there is something there. So you know, Ledger is is a very strong company and there are a few hardware manufactus what it manufacturers in the world. But you know the fact that Jack Dorsey and blog and taking a taking this is good.

We we we know them, we talk to them, and you know, I feel that what they're doing is actually you know, something that is bitcoin mainly and within the realm of what Block and Square doing. You know, I think that Ledger is a much more holistic approach. Like you know, we are hardware manufacturer. We care for every community.

We're not deedpoint only you know, of course, we're vary from a bitcoin, but we are multi chain, and I think the future is to hide away the complexity for users, like they shouldn't worry so much about the chain, but they should worry about you know, manufacturers like us worry about the experience in the future. So we are very focused on the journey of the user and making sure that we support every community in crypto, and I think

that's where we're very different from everyone else. Well, speaking of communities in crypto, there's a big one on Twitter. And since we mentioned Jack Dorsey, I'm curious when you think about Elon Musk joining the board of Twitter, given his thoughts on decentralization and his own sort of role

in the crypto community, how does that strike you? You know where what it strikes me the most is I think, you know, I followed all of this and I think Elon Musk is a beautiful troll and I think it's amazing, and so I think he's taking a stance at freedom. I think, you know, freedom is a concept here that you know that Elon is standing behind, and uh, you know, freedom of speech, and I think, of course is big.

The reason why it's big on discerent t realization is because decentralization brings freedom to the people, and I think freedom is really motivates in here. And actually freedom is what ledgury is all about. Like we want to empower people with tools so they can you know, we claim their self sovereignty, like on you know, what they want to own, whether it's a bitcoin, whether it's an n f T or everything else that's going to go on

blockchain in the future. So I'm very aligned with you much move and you know he roots for freedom and so are we. So go on. You don't normally hear the words beautiful and troll together. How can a troll be beautiful? Oh, because I think it's a is an Internet genius, Like every time you post something, he breaks the internet. So but I think sometimes it's throwing. I mean we're talking about like in being a promoter or crypto.

I don't think you know, being a promoto does is you know the best that you can do for crypto, but Elon is doing it. So you know, I don't agree with everything that you know, the must say, but I have to say that, you know is the is an Internet magician, so you know, you have to respect that. You know, this idea of security and and some of these big names Elon Musk when it comes to potential crypto and Twitter and Jack Dorrisey getting deeper into crypto.

At the end of the day, with crypto being down even among one of the biggest conferences that surround bitcoin, what are you seeing in terms of institutional interests and what's stopping people at the end of the day really from getting in. Nothing is stopping people to get in now. I think I think people need to understand that with crypto, we sort of we just got into like a thirty years uh you know, uh circle of like going up.

You know, like there is massive adoption anywhere anywhere you look at, you know, whether it's cryptocurrencies, n f T s. I think that the next big thing will be played to earn um and so you know, everyone is coming in from from retail perspective, but also from an institutional perspective. You know, I've been in these games. It's two does and fourteen. And I can tell you that now no one is doubting the you know crypto or bitcoin or

you know bloog chain technologies. Like everyone wants in and so you have an amazing phenomenon because it's worldwide two Like everyone is getting in from everywhere in the world. And this is actually very unique. This is the first time that everyone everywhere in the world is getting in into the same technology rail. And so this is why you see so much momentum going happening right now. Pascal Gaultier Ledger CEO and Share will let you get back

to Bitcoin Miami. Thank you for taking the time along with Bloomberg. Apple is back online the iphonemaker, announcing it will hold its annual Worldwide Developers Conference virtually for the third year in a row, a sign that major tech events are still a ways off from returning to pre pandemic norms. I want to bring in our Mark German, who of course covers Apple for us, So we mark. Apple has been leading a push to come back to its office for its own employees. Why hold this event

virtually again? Yeah, they really had no choice but to do this virtually, right, We don't know what's going to happen with COVID over the next two months or so. It's not predictable. These shows take several months to put together, right, They either have to put three months of time and developing an in person version or three months time developing

an online version. And it's really hard to put you all your effort and if you're splitting it across both, so they have to pick one direction, and the in person direction is just not safe at this point. Who knows what could happen with COVID one week or the day of the event where they have to cancel the whole thing. Apple was in a position where it really couldn't afford to become stuck, so we'd have to go

online only. And the compromises they're going to allow a small number of people in the Steve Jobs Theater at the Apple Park headquarters to watch the prerecorded video live. So what are we expecting the substance of this developers conference will be? What will be the big announcements? I think this is gonna be a fairly strong Apple Developer conference.

Right They are scheduled to release new Max, including a new version of the MacBook Air, around the middle of the year, so perhaps they use ABDWDC to introduce that laptop. That's going to be a very big deal. Obviously there's lots of fans of the MacBook Air and this will be the biggest redesign and the product's history, and we'll

have a new version of the Apple in house. Chips were also looking for major fitness tracking and health upgrades on the Apple Watch, as well as a pretty big update to iOS Dios sixteen, though I'm not expecting a full blown redesign. And additionally, there should be some conversation about a R and VR applications ahead of a larger reveal of its mixed reality hardware for its headset later

this year or next year. You've been reporting on Apple's return to the office and push back from some employees. How is this evolving? I mean, and could you see Apple losing talent as a result when you know other companies are also pushing for people to come back. Yes, So next week that's the deadline to start returning to

the office if you're an Apple corporate employee. Right, So they'll start one day a week in the office on April eleven, right next Monday, and then a few weeks after that, it will be two days a week, and by the end of May, or a week before the end of May, they're going to expect employees in the office Monday's, Tuesdays, and Thursdays. Now, I would say there's probably at least a few hundred employees who are leaving

Apple over that policy. But you know, we should note that Apple has over a hundred and sixty thousand employees. Obviously most of that is retailed. It's still several tens of thousands of employees, so this is a small number of people all together. The interesting thing to me, if you, if anyone wants to read my Business Week story on this, is that Apple put out a nine minute advertisement how how great its own products, software and services are for

remote work. Yeah, it's recording those very people who developed those products to work from the office. So a little bit of irony right there. Irony. Indeed, Mark German as always great to have you. Thanks, and that does it for this edition of Bloomberg Technology. We are back tomorrow. We're gonna be joined by J. B. Unknown, President and CEO of eBay. And don't forget to check out our podcasts. Find it anywhere you get your podcast. I'm Emily Chang in San Francisco. This is Bloomberg