Disney Earnings and Musk's Tesla Stock Sale (Podcast)

a moment. Plus Musque sells more Tesla shares unloading nearly thirty two billion dollars in Tesla stocks since November, and he's pointing the finger at Twitter. I'll speak with one of his longtime friends, David Sacks, who has been subpoenaed by Twitter ahead of the trial. And a key metric for Roadblocks and shares tumbling, overall bookings unexpectedly dropping in the second quarter. What does that tell us about the making of the metaverse. Later this hour, Roadblocks CEO Dave

Bazuki joins me one on one. All of that in a moment, but first I want to dig into Disney's results a little bit more. Now, bringing Ross Garber, CEO of Garber Kawasaki, longtime Disney's shareholder, of course, So a mixed bag adding fourteen and a half million new subscribers to Disney Plus. The bulk of those came from India, others from other countries, and just a hundred thousand new subscribers from the US and Canada. What's your take, Well, I don't look at this mixed bag at all. I

look at this blowout results. I mean you're looking at Netflix struggling to add subscribers and the tremendous you know, competition and the streaming business and Disney still growing tremendously, not only Disney Plus, but Hulu as well and ESPN Plus. So when you look at their streaming business, although it's losing still lot of money, the future looks very bright for that. And Disney was a great company before streaming.

And what's really exciting about the earnings report is the parks are back with over two billion dollars of profits, five million of it just from consumer products at the park. So, you know, the operating results of this company have improved dramatically, right, sort of a broad based recovery that we're seeing. We've been listening into Bob J. Peck, the CEO on the earnings call. Let's take a quick listen to some of

what he's had to say. And significant subscriber growth at our streaming services, which added fifteen point five million subscriptions in the quarter, including fourteen point four million Disney Plus subscribers, of which six million were Core Disney Plus and eight million were Hot Stars. As of the close of Q three, we now have two hundred and twenty one million total subscriptions across our streaming offering. Hot Star. By the way,

is that service that's offered mostly in India. What do you make of you know, the addition of this ad supported tier. It's something that we were expecting. Netflix is doing it as well. Does you know Disney potentially have something on Netflix here when it comes to an ad supported model. Um no. I think actually it will be more benefits for Netflix the ad supported model because for many reasons, but I think for Disney because they have

you know, networks and cable channels and stuff. So you're sort of competing against yourself a little bit from the ads, or you're spreading your ads on another property. It's a little bit more complex for them, But it just allows more consumers to watch the content they're making, which is a net positive because they sell through so many other things to the fans, whether it's going to the park or products and such. So for Disney, the most important thing.

You know, I don't love Bob Chpeck, but he's proving he's a great operator during difficult times. He's not an exciting guy, but he's got the theme park, the profit drivers of the business back, and the losses that they're driving from Disney Plus will ultimately turned to gains over time. So I think they're managing the business pretty well. And and you know, there's no recession at Disneyland. I can tell you that. So what are you looking for in

the coming quarter? Obviously, when it comes to streaming, it all comes down to content. Of course, Disney has a huge library, but you know, there's been some concern about how much of the content will continue to appeal to adults, something that Netflix, uh maybe doing a little bit better. You know, how do you think about those two players

in a rapidly evolving streaming environment. So so I'm still having trouble calling myself an adult, even though I'm one and a half um and as an adult, I watched Disney Plus the minute you know, Obi Wan was a great show. I mean the minute they dropped anything Star Wars, I watch it. I you know what am I supposed to do? So I don't think they have a lot of trouble. And they've got Hulu for for really adult content, but they just recently dropped some R rated movies onto

Disney Plus like Deadpool, which are a great content. But you know, it's really a high quality set of assets on Disney Plus, and Hulu is much more like television, So they really are appealing to lots of different demos and I don't think they lose the older demo at all. And parents like me absolutely trust Disney content with my kids.

And you know, just recently I took YouTube away from them because YouTube shorts has become the garbage hole of hell and I don't want my kids watching garbage whole content, and if I put it on Disney Plus, there's nothing they can watch that's bad. So I think parents really trust the brand and and and that's starting to really pay off for them. That's quite a way to describe YouTube kids as a mom. Can you can you expand on that I'm not YouTube kids, YouTube shorts. You know,

they can expand on that. Yeah. See what's happened is all that the creators on TikTok are now posting on

on YouTube shorts and YouTube shorts is basically TikTok. And what they're getting now is lower quality content that now switches between so many different topics where you know, I monitor my kids YouTube because they watch gamers and and they'll watch Unspeakable and that's fine, but then it will flip them to a video of you know, like a Russian flame ly, you know, exploiting their children, throwing them in the pool or something. I'm like, what do you

what are you doing? You know, so with shorts, I can't monitor it, and in two minutes it's it's a garbage horoll of content. It's just garbage, Ross Gerber, we never disappoint provocative as always. Thank you so much, Ross for sharing your thoughts with us. CEO Gerber Kawasaki now to a bloomberg scoop. Apple is stepping up and spending on original podcast The Tech Giant, signing an agreement with a Pulitzer Prize winning studio and holding talks with other

companies about more deals. According to Bloomberg sources, that deal with Futuro Studios will fund development and production of podcasts, and in exchange, Apple will have the first chance to turn any podcast into a film or television show. Shortly after cheasing the possibility of share buy backs, Elon Musk has sold nearly seven billion dollars in Tesla, stuck Tesla

and Twitter shareholders, appearing to welcome the news. It is Musk's biggest sale ever, and he says it's to avoid a last minute sell off if he's forced to go ahead with the deal to buy Twitter. Musk says he'll buy Tesla shares again if the deal doesn't close. Meantime, a number of people in Musk's inner circle have been roped into this legal fight, among them Oracles, Larry Ellison, venture capitalist Mark Andreson, as well as my next guest,

longtime tech investor and entrepreneur David Sacks of Craft Ventures. David, good to have you back with us. So you got subpoena. I know you said you were getting a lawyer to try to make this go away. What's the latest on that? Any update? Uh? No, no update there yet, but I do have this very very large, very fraud subpoena. It's probably the thickest subpoena I've ever gotten. And I'm I know you're not supposed to talk about these things in these situations, but I have to kind of wonder if

that's the point. Is I've been a vocal critic of Twitter's management. Maybe they don't want me talking about these issues. But look, I can just sort of save them a lot of time and hopefully some some legal fees. Uh, you know, I don't. I've never been in possession of non public information related to their contract dispute with Ellen.

I've commented based on all the public information that's been out there, and and I'm usually when I tweet, I'm usually linking directly to that information that I'm commenting on. So this is sort of a overly broad phishing expedition and I look forward to hopefully being done with it soon. So look, we all know you go way back with Ellen. You work together at PayPal um, and you know you have expressed support um for him, at least in the last several months. When it comes to this Twitter deal.

Looking at some of your tweets, the big question is, did you have any non public information. You talk about bots, you talk about you, you suggest that Jack Dorsey masterminded this whole thing. Is this all really just your opinion or do you know something the public doesn't. No, I don't. Um these look I'm a commentator. UM. You know I do a paw that's I've been doing a pod for a couple of years. I've been writing blog posts for years. Um, I've been tweeting for years. I express my opinion on

these topics. This is all based on the public information, which again in the screenshot that you're showing, I'm linking to the public information that I'm reacting to. That was a screenshot from a court filing that Elon's lawyers filed, and those are the facts that I'm siting. So I'm just a public commentator on this issue. Um. And you know Twitter and Ellen they have a fully integrated merger agreement that was negotiated by some of the best lawyers

in the world. I don't know what the relevance is of my public commentary on a on a contract dispute between them. It just doesn't make any sense. But lots of people were kind of roped into this. You saw that Joe Lonsdale tweeted that somehow he was roped into it, despite his only connection being a few snarky comments. So, I think this is just a very overbroad fishing expedition

type subpoena. But when you, you know, multiplied by the number of people that they're uh that they're basically subpoena ng it, it kind of amounts to harassment. So I hope that the court will will limit will limit the suit. You mentioned your podcast, You and You're All In pod crew actually interviewed Musk a few months ago. I believe

at your summit. Have you had communications with him over the last several months, private communications, and if so, you know, do any of them pertain to the deal and could it be at all relevant? Well, you're referring to an interview we did in public at the All In summit, and it's on YouTube as you want to go see it. I mean the news that that interview did make some news, but you can just go watch it to see. Um. You know, the question is do I have relevant information

that pertains to this um contractual lawsuit? I don't think I do. UM, there's just nothing that that I know about this that wasn't already in the public sphere. What I've really offered our opinions, my own opinions, and they're not at anybody's behest or instigation or anything like that. Well, and I don't don't know. I don't know why that. I don't I don't know why that would be hard for anyone to understand, because, as you all know, Emily, I'm a person who hasn't been shy about expressing his

opinions over the years. Absolutely, and right here on the show. Look, one concerned that you know, Twitter, Twitter might have is that Ellen has been texting all of his friends and asking them to tweet about bots. Um. You know what, what's your response to that, even though these people might not necessarily know or have any expert data or you know, spec show information about Twitter spot issues. No, I mean, like I said, none of this is at Elon's instigation

or behest Um. It seems to me that Twitter does have a body issue based on my own users of the site. I mean, I remember, in particular, when I was tweeting about, for example, the Ukraine War, all of a sudden, these brand new accounts that had just been created with zero followers, they were you know, started in whatever March of this year. There all of a sudden, we're tweeting things back at me, and it felt like all of a sudden they were trying to drown me out.

There's many examples like that. So you know, the information I'm relying on is what's come out publicly, and what got revealed is that the way that Twitter determines whether it has a body issue is that they're sampling a hundred accounts today. I mean, in my view, that does not sound sufficient. Now look, I'm not a statistician. This

is just my opinion. You know, I'm sure they'll call sorts of expert witnesses, but in my in my view, having operated companies before, if you have a serious issue that could affect your company an excellential level, you do more than just sort of statistically sample a hundred accounts a day. That feels like a perfunctory exercise. So that's basically when I tweeted, and you know, I linked to the public information about this, and that's really all there

is to it. Elon Musk at a Tesla event last week, had this to say about Twitter. Take a listen. I do understand the product quite well, so I think I've got a good sense of of where where to point the engineering team Twitter to make it radically better. So this is as he's still trying to get out of the deal. What do you make of those remarks, Um, David. If he is, like, say, the court forces him to buy Twitter, what do you think he does with it? Does he turn around and resell it or does he

stick with it and try to quote unquote fix it. Well, I've always hoped that Ellen would buy Twitter. I mean, let's be clear, I'm so I've supported the deal and the idea of this deal, and I wanted it to go through because I think it would be a societal good if Ellen restored Twitter to being a free speech platform. That's been my main interest in this whole thing, is that I'd like to see uh censorship restrained and free speech restored on a major social network like Twitter. So

I've always hoped that this deal will go through. At the same time, I've taken Ellen and his word when he tweeted that there's this body issue, that that is a serious issue, and you know, he has tried to get to the bombom of it, and it seems like Twitter hasn't been fully transparent about that, and so I can understand that issue from his point of view. I want to get your thoughts on another issue having to

do with social media. We've got this hashtag civil war now trending on social media after the FBI searched Trump's moral lago property. As you've you've talked about many times on this show and in your writing, you are a free speech advocate, a free speech advocate on social media. But in this particular case, how do you think these

platforms Twitter, read It, et cetera should handle something like this. Well, first of all, I would just if anyone is calling for violence, I would condemn that, and in fact, you could take down any post that is trying to incite violence or a crime. The content like that is not

protected under the First Amendment. So even as a probe, you think the hashtag in itself, like anything with that hashtag should be taken No that that that The last what I was about to go with this is is saying is to say, look, first of all, you can take down, um, you know, content that would seek to incite violence and be consistent with the First Amendment. However, I don't think that's what this hashtag is necessarily doing.

What I see is that people on the right are criticizing this raid on our lago, on President Trump's private home, in which thirty FBI agents who are dressed up as soldiers, wearing body armor and carrying, you know, a R fifteen weapons of war with their fingers just outside the trigger guard. I mean, it looked like a raid of something like, um,

you know, Pablo Escobar's home. They're wondering whether this is the whether this is the beginning of a civil war, whether civil war is being declared on them, And I think that's a legitimate question to ask, and you've got to see it in the context of not just this event, but things have been happening for the last nineteen months. I mean, you've had draconian COVID policies that have given unelected bureaucrats ticutorial powers. Even here in California, Gavin Newsom

as still ruling in their state of emergency. You've got the Department of Homeland Security, which is a law enforcement agency. They redefined misinformation as terrorism, and then they hired a Democratic Party operative to run a new agency, a sort of Ministry of truth, devoted to defining what that misinformation would be. And now you got this raid on President

Trump's home, which is utterly unprecedented. And you know, I think I don't know what ultimately this was about, but I do think that these agencies deserve the public deserves an explanation from these agencies in terms of what they were after and what they were doing. All right, well, uh, once again you expressing your opinions. I should just underscore, um. But David always appreciate hearing your thoughts here on the show, UM, and will continue to follow h this Twitter story and more.

Craft Ncher's general partner, David Zaxs appreciate it. Coming up much more of Bloomberg Technology. Stay with us. This is Bloomberg. Another story we're watching. Samsung just unveiled the latest generation of foldable phones. The new Galaxy Z Fold four and Flip four, come with a suite of incremental upgrades. Upgraded cameras, a more adorable display, a slimmer hinge. Samsung kept prices the same despite surging costs of materials and shipping. Prices

are going to go up though for Samsung's accessory Climer. Well. Come back to Bloomer Technology. Emily changing in San Francisco. I want to get back to earnings and shows of Sons after hours, I'd let they're back with us, and yeah, not good news. Sons down almost twenty percent, that's right, and twenty percent in after hours. They cut their full year of sales outlook to one point seven three to one point seven six billion. They previously forecast one point

nine five billion to two billion dollars. And they're listing every single thing we've already heard in this earning season in terms of what's going wrong here. A stronger dollar is hurting consumers in all kinds of markets around the world. Inflation is putting off consumer spending. But they're also citing some elements of shifting consumer behaviors, CEO Patrick Spence saying that they're seeing consumers spend less on goods, more on services and travel. They're also hurt by supply chain and

a backlog. They basically had miss sales opportunities in the quarter because the supply chain for their hardware has still not fixed itself. So real severe reaction here and after ours. I mean, this was a stock that has suffered anyway down year to date, but there was some hope that you know, at least on the supply side, so Nose could have improved things. They also recently, for example, launched their own version of Alexa and a voice recognition to

compete in that market. But as we know, they're very sensitive to what Amazon is doing as well. This is not good news for Sons. Really severe reaction after ours, one will look at on Thursday as well. All right, thank you. Meantime, as the pandemic has ammed, that means less time playing games and add to that rising prices and also less money being spent in game purchases, dressing

up avatars and such. That's left some game publishers, console and PC makers struggling to maintain the surge and growth seen during the pandemic. Enter Roadblocks, which just reported bookings that were disappointing to some, but the company is still growing and expanding into the metaverse. I want to bring in Roadblocks CEO and co founder David Buzuki now for more on that. David, great to have you back with

us in an exclusive interview. Look, there's no question the macro environment has been tough for a lot of companies, tech companies and gaming companies in particular. How are you seeing these macro economic forces impact Roadblocks in particular. Hey, Emily, thank you for having us on the show, and we reach out to everyone who's having a tough time in

these economic times. Roadblocks just had our biggest month in history as far as engagement, as far as users in the US and Canada, around the world, and in all age demographics, and we are not pointed at all. We had an amazing July and a wonderful Q two. I think what it highlights is that Roadblocks is not a game,

or maybe even not a game platform. It's a immersive human experience platform where people come together to play, but they come together to learn, they come together to go to concerts, and ultimately the type of technology we're working on is almost more of a utility that people use in their daily lives. Your fastest demographic in the US and Canada at least is actually, you know, seventeen to

twenty four years old, outpacing the younger kids. You know, my my son, as I've talked with you about, who's in that younger cohort and loves playing Roadbox. What do you think is driving that. We've always had the vision that Roadblocks is a civil platform for people of all ages. It brings them together, allows them to connect authentically, to do things together, whether it's playing, whether it dissecting a

frog in school, whether it's graduating from high school. And I think what we're seeing is as the players on Roadblocks get older, they're inviting friends. This is this growth in seventeen through twenty four is driven by three three things. Really. One is amazing content. Almost half of the content on Roadblocks is now played more by over thirteen players than

under third team players. Is driven by the core virility of our platform as driven by constant technical innovation, new amazing things around avatars, around immersive UM, layered clothing that allows people to be more closely identified with who they want to be, uh, spatial audio that we rolled out, higher fidelity materials. So it's is really a bunch of things driving this growth. How is engagement and monetization different for a slightly older age cohort? Yeah, what is UM.

What's interesting is we've been monetizing very well across all ages. One can imagine as we start looking at older demographics, they do generally tend to spend more money online. And some of the products we are working on right now that we've hinted on including a visionary ad server product that's immersive and native and actually feels fun rather than getting in the way of our players. Those types of

things typically tend to monetize better with older players. So there's really a huge future for our platform, not just around the world, but as we get more and more older players on the platform. Now you keet in on the disappointment among some analysts and investors earlier, and you have always talked about a grand vision, these seven big inventions that are going to take years and years potentially to play out. How do you convince investors who might

have a shorter term time horizon to stick around. Yeah, Um, what's really interesting think of the engagement. July the biggest month we've ever had, four point seven billion hours of engagement on our platform. Fifty eight point five million daily active users are thirteen and up. Cohort is growing at over thirty six percent year on year, and traditionally as

we grow engagement, we grow monetization. There's enormous space uh in countries like India and Japan in the cohort for older players for us to continue growing along to our vision really of connecting a billion people with optimism and stability. You've expressed frustration at times about being measured against these analysts estimates, And I'm curious given that you've waited so long. I mean, Roadblocks was founded in the early two thousands, you waited a long time to become a public company.

Do you have any regrets about going public or has going public benefited Roadblocks? Yeah? Well, to be clear, I don't think I've ever expressed any frustration at any analysts. I think they're all trying to do our job. We do keep optimistically talking about the size of the potential market here. We keep talking about the amazing people were

bringing on board. I just want to highlight our business model is robust enough that we're continuing to hire amazing people through the midst of what is for many people a difficult time. And we have absolutely no regrets about going public. We run our business exactly the same now as we used to before we were public. Given the macro environment, how are you thinking about spending you know, you know, I spoke to Apple CEO Tim Cookie used

the word deliberate. They're being very deliberate about spending, deliberate about hiring. We're seeing layoffs and cutbacks at other companies. Are you stepping on the gas or or or pulling on the brakes? We are being consistent. We're hiring at the same rate in the second half of the year as we were in the first half. We're very We've always been very deliberate about our spending because everything we spend is money that does not go back to our

developer community. We have amazing people who innovate at a very rapid pace. We have a very efficient infrastructure, we have a very wonderful trust and safety team. But as much as possible, we're trying to be efficient so our developers UM can take a bigger piece of that pie and keep making amazing creations. You're planning to roll out an immersive advertising system later this year. Can you give

us any more color on that. Yeah, this has been a vision for a long time, the notion that when we're together in a three D experience, we start to see some of the interesting things like billboards or a pop up store in the town square that UM we're actually quite optimistic, based on the brands we work with, that these will not feel like something that gets in your way, but they will feel like something that's additive

to the Roadblocks experience. And the brands that that we work closely with tend to be fun interesting brands like Gucci Town which dis released I think in March and had over thirty million visits, or Tommy Played from Tommy Hill Finger, Wimbledon, Wimble World, Spotify Island. These are brands is that we think actually enhanced the experience, and we'll integrate in with this submersive advertising system. Alright, Roadblocks CEO and co founder David Puzuki. David, great to have you

back with us. Thanks, thank you. A bit busy earnings, we can appreciate it. Okay, coming up crypto rallies on the new CPI report, But is it to last? And who are the leaders of the rally? We'll warn that next Mrs Bloomer, It's time now for our crypto report

and cryptocurrency surge. After a softer than inflected expected inflation number, with the CPI increasing eight and a half percent in July from a year earlier, cooling from that nine point one percent back in June which was the largest in four decades, bloombergs Katie Greifeld here for more, Katie, any crypto winners in this rally. Basically the whole space was

winning today. If you look across your crypt go screen on the terminal, it all comes back to Bitcoin, of course, the largest cryptocurrency out there, having a fantastic day, up over three percent on Wednesday. Of course, that ties back to the reaction we saw on the stock market. You have the NASTAC one hundred up two point nine percent.

You can almost bet that Bitcoin is going to be up as well, just given that very tight correlation, and that all ties back to sort of wagers that the Fed is going to have to be less aggressive than maybe feared, and you saw that reflected in the bond market as well. But Bitcoin, you're big one. You also had Ethereum rallying very strongly, up almost nine percent again on Wednesday alone. As you can see in that chart, it has had quite the run over the past month

and a half or so. But there is some fundamentals news there. Of course, as we await the merge, all this coming up. As you say, ahead of the merge, you know, how are investors bracing for this and is it really gonna happen. It's a great question, a little bit impossible to answer, so it's known as the merge. It's a software update. Basically, we've been waiting for it for a while. Theoretically it's going to happen in the

back half of this year. But what's important tonight actually you're going to see the so called Girly tests, it's a German word. It's scheduled to take place. It's basically a test merge with the test network, and you have analyst saying this is the final dress rehearsal before we get to the actual merge. So that's what you're seeing reflected in the price, just basically optimism that this test will go well and maybe we'll get the actual merge

to follow soon. All. Katie Greifeld, thank you for that update. I want to talk about Facebook now and how the app was used recently in an abortion case. A woman charged with two felonies related to an illegal abortion after authorities discovered information about the pregnancy through private messages on Facebook Messenger. This according to court documents, Jessica Burgess had helped her seventeen year old daughter obtain abortion pills when

she was more than twenty weeks pregnant. Pregnant making a termination of the pregnancy illegal in the state. Her daughter also facing related charges. I want to bring in Bloomberg, Sara Fryer now for more on this. So set the stage a little bit here. What happened, Well, what happened in the case, or what happened in in how do they obtain these messages? Well, so this is not the perfect case to look at when we're talking about whether tech companies will give over dated to authorities. In the

post Row world, that has been a big concern. But this case, actually the warrant for this information went out to Facebook before the Row case, before Row was overturned, and initially it didn't even ask or anything related to abortion. It asked for these messages related to the improper treatment of of skeletal remains. So that was really what was what was at stake here. So Facebook, Facebook cooperated with that, and then through that search they found these messages about

the abortion pill and then added those charges. Um so so Facebook came up with the statement saying, listen, you know, we didn't know this was about abortion. That statements seemed to imply that, you know, they would have been hands off if it was. I'm not sure that's the case. So let's take a look at this statement. Um, this

is from Meta. The warrants concerned charges related to a criminal investigation, and court documents indicate that police at the time we're investigating the case of a stillboard baby who was burned and buried, not a decision to have an abortion. Both of these warrants were originally accompanied by nondisclosure orders which prevented us from sharing any information about them. The

orders have now been lifted. So, as you say, this statement begs the question if they believe this did had to have to do with an abortion, that Facebook would have done something differently, would they have Well, that's where I think they need to bring out some clarification, because that is what if you read between the lines of the statement, that's what it's implying. But I don't think that that's what's going to happen. I mean, tech companies do tend to comply with the law and states where

it is the law. Otherwise they can't operate their their

business comes under risk. And so I think we're going to see many, many cases where it's not even clear in the warrant that they're searching for abortion related data, and it's going to be up to companies like Facebook, and Facebook has come out and said this in the past, Um, it's going to be up to them to make sure that those requests are not overly broad, that they have some sort of legal parameters that they're following, that it's not just uh, you know, wild goose chase through Facebook

messages to try to find something to convictivity, and then that they let users know when their data has been requested. And so that's been the line from the company. They're not coming out and saying either way whether they would cooperate with authorities on abortion cases. Of my guess is is a lot of the companies will end up having to do that. So this um brings back the case of the San Bernardino shooter back in December, Apple refused

to turn over the shooter's iPhone. This is twelve people. Um,

how do you compare this to that standoff? Well, I think we haven't seen a lot of tech companies standing up to law enforcement in the in the time since they just put those parameters around like we don't want to we don't want to use ors to you know, we don't want to just have a back door to all of the messages that they ever send, and the tech companies have worked on things Apple included on encryption, on making sure that there's a private way for people

to send messages. So I think while this gets cleared up, the best advice for anyone using any tech product is to use an encrypted messaging service if you're going to whether it's whether it's Signal or WhatsApp or so, right, what's that better? That's it's better a messenger for the most part. But Vestor does now have an option to send encrypted messages. And the point from the companies that would be like, we can't give this message to law

enforcement because it doesn't exist on our servers. All right, So a couple of things this this happened with Facebook before, where was overturned um uh And a number of big tech companies, of course have a lot of information. You think about your Gmail than everything. What are these companies do if law enforcement comes at them and ask for emails, texts, the company's messages, search history, um buying history. The companies have been mum on it because there hasn't been a

perfect case to rally around. And I think what's happening with this case is people are looking at and saying like oh abortion messages from Facebook, like Facebook's you know, giving giving it up to law enforcement, endangering a woman who needs an abortion. But then when you look at the details, it gets murkier because it's after twenty weeks in the state where it's legal. There um, there was, there was, you know, burial of the body. I don't know if I want to go into the details are

a little too dark to even go into on air. Um. But but I think that the the case is not the one that privacy advocates probably want to rally around. It's it's not um, it is just it is just an indicator of how murky each one of these things is going to. There's never going to be a perfect, clean cut decision where you can say like this is not an area where we're going to cooperate, or we

are definitely going to operate in every case. What's your sense of whether this Nebraska case could create a precedent for what happens in these cases when these requests are made by law enforcement. Well, the problem is every state

is changing their laws in this moment. Right in the past few weeks, we've seen abortion get limited, restricted, um, criminalize people who help out with abortions in some in some states, whether even it's just having knowledge that they exist, it can be UM can lead people to legal liability. So I think that it's opening up UM liability for users of these platforms beyond even just UM patients who

might get abortions. So I do think that this is a very big area that we need to continue to look at because UM, if companies continues to just blanketly comply with law, enforce wherever wherever, those UM users of these platforms are going to get increasingly concerned about their privacy and UM their ability to conduct normal everyday business. Alright, very complicated, nuanced issue. Sarah Fire, thank you for helping us wade through all of that. I appreciate it. And

that does it. For the edition of Bloomberg Technology coming up Thursday, I'll be sitting down with the new CEO of pinter Us, Bill Ready, is joining us for an exclusive conversation about his first month on the job. This is Bloomberg