Biden in Brussels & Apple's iPhone Subscription

of Bloomberg Exclusive. Apple working on a hardware subscription for the iPhone and other hardware products. Why buy a device out right when you can just pay a monthly fee? Will dial in our very own Mark German and Uber will now list New York's city taxi cabs on its app. This an effort to ease a driver's shortage and higher fares and get a leg up on rival lift. We'll get to all of that in a moment. Continuing now, the war on Ukraine has now entered its second month.

President Biden marking that grim milestone in Brussels, meeting with Natal leaders about what can be done to stop Russia's unprovoked aggression. The President was asked if Russia should remain in the G twenty and this is what he had to say. My answer is yes, it depends on the um I that was raised today, and I raised the possibility if that can't be done, if Indonesia and others do not agree, then we should, in my view, asked to have both UM Ukraine be able to attend the meetings.

For more on the president's visit, we are joined now by a Bloomberg Washington correspondent, Emory Hordern, who is in Brussels. Emory obviously a significant statement there from President Biden. So far, what has been the reaction to what he has had to say and his meeting with top European leaders. Yeah, this was really a main headline coming out of that press conference the President gave at NATO following his extraordinary meeting, and it's been a slew of diplomacy here in Brussels, Emily.

The President just wrapped up he had a NATO meeting at G seven meeting, and then he went over to the European Commission to address European leaders. When he says that he doesn't he thinks that Russia should be vetoed and disinvited from the G twenty. He said that if not every G twenty nation agrees, they would ununanimous support. He thinks Ukraine at the very least should be invited to make sure they're there for part of these conversations.

After this, Emily, the President will move on to Poland overnight. He'll be tomorrow morning, He'll be traveling there and I'll be meeting with his counterpart as well as really seeing what is happening in terms of the human toll this crisis has taken. This is really going to be a

little bit more of an emotional day. If today was really the diplomatic day, tomorrow is really an emotional day and day about humanity because this crisis has caused ten million Ukrainians displaced either in their own home or more than three million have actually fled to bordering countries, and Poland really being the ground zero for that. Now there is this question about just who President Biden is going

to meet uh in the next twenty four hours. He was, um, you know, a little circumspect about what was coming next. What do we know about who exactly he's going to meet, and what the impact of those meetings will be Yeah, some details at the moment are not released to the

press obviously for some security concerns. But the President in the morning, he'll still be in Brussels and he'll sit down with Ursula vander Lyon and we're also are expecting from the United States, and the President signaled this this evening is some more details about potentially what the US can do in terms of shoring up natural gas supplies for Europe, because we know how dependent Europe is on Russian natural gas and oil and at this moment that

is really the continuous lifeblood of the An economy that has pretty much been saved in terms of these harsh penalties and sanctions. Then when the President goes on to Poland, we do know over the weekend he'll be sitting down for a bilateral with this Polish counterpart, President Data. There's going to be a number of issues to discuss, but most top of the priority would really be the humanitarian focus, given the fact that Poland is really dealing with an

influx of refugees and asylum seekers from Ukraine. Emory of course traveling with the President, but we're going to be following the President's every move. Meantime, new exclusive deals on the breach of details on the breach of Octa and the group behind it. Bloom Brig has learned that a sixteen year old from England is believed to be the mastermind behind the attack. Bloom Brig's William Turton was behind

that scoop, he joins us. Now, so William, just who is this sixteen year old teenager who lives with his mom and how did he pull this off? Well, you know, we're not naming him obviously because he's a miner, but he's a very talented hacker. One person I spoke to who was responding to him hacking a company said that he was so fat and so proficient that at first when they were observing the activity, they thought it might

be automated, like it was a script. But no, it was just the sixteen year old kid who actually kind of has like a pretty expansive online presence of him dabbling and hacking. And you know, now he's probably one of the most notorious cyber criminals of all time. You know, he's achieved that label really quickly because this group has hacked into Microsoft Octa and Video. You know, these huge targets.

That's been millions and millions of dollars on cybersecurity. I mean, I haven't seen anything a cyber crime group like this in many years. So now that we know who he is, what could the consequences for this kind of attack be? You know, it's it's really interesting the laws in the UK, especially with miners and these sorts of crimes, are pretty different. Um, and it's it's it's there's been actually kind of historically a problem of when you have miners who are hacking,

kind of keeping them off the computer. This is really reminiscent of the hack of Twitter that happened last year, where it was a lot of miners involved in pulling off the hack. Now is different because many of them were in the US, and you know, they're very quickly arrested, but it's it's difficult really to keep these kids away. And what do we know about the actual consequences to

Octa and the businesses that have been affected. Of course, Octa has been very clear Octa itself was not breached, but there are these three sixties six other businesses that were compromised, right right, Yeah, And in part of our story yesterday you might have noticed we reported that the hackers used their breach of Octa in order to enable further hacks. Now we don't know what the details are, but if you're a company like the Octa, that's basically

the worst case scenario. And so you know, I don't think we know exactly what happened. We know what the company has said so far that there were a limited number of accounts actors. But still, when you're a company that offers a service that does identity management, it's the last thing that you want to happen, all right. Bloomberg's WILLIAMS. Turton will continue to watch your reporting on this. Thank you for bringing us that story meantime. It is the

first alliance of its kind in the United States. Uber will list New York City a yellow taxis on its app to help combat a driver shortage and rising fairs. Yep, you heard that right. More on that next, this is Bloomberg. Uber will list New York's yellow cabs on its app. This is the first alliance of its kind in the

United States. The announcement sending Uber shares jumping Thursday. I want to get more on this with Bloombergs Jackie Dabolos, who covers Uber for US and this Jackie after years of acrimony, no what he thought this would ever happen? Why now you know? No one could have seen this coming. It's been a contentious decade ever since Uber stepped onto the scene in New York. And really what this means is it's an acknowledgement by Uber that they can't do

this alone. They have said that they want to get every taxi in the world on their app by and it's a really ambitious school. So to be able to pull it off in New York is a true sign that they are going to tackle this in the US head on, and it's a good sign that they might get a competitive edge over Lift. So a few things at play, but more so you have to think about the driver's shortage. They needed a boost to supply, and this is certainly going to give them that. What does

this mean for drivers? Uber is billing it as a win for them, is it really And what does it mean for fares given gas prices and inflation? More broadly, Well, for sure the boost and supply, it's about fourteen thousand taxis in New York that are now going to be available on the Uber app. Customers can hail arrived just they like they normally do, but now it could be

a cab waiting to pick them up. And so for the cab driver, they're going to be paid in the same way that other app based drivers in New York are paid. They have a minimum wage that's set by the city, and this differs from the metered fares that they are typically used to. Now. Uber says that this rate that they're paid by the city is actually better on average than the metered rates. So this could be a boost in earnings for New York cities cab drivers,

but also, you know, just more business. They saw their demand for cabs decimated when ride hailing came into town, and so I think from one perspective, it's not just going to put more people in their cars, but also maybe more money in their pockets. All Right, how times have changed. Bloombergh JACKI Davilos. We'll see how this works out. We're gonna continue this conversation with the CEO of Hulbert himself. You can tune into Bloomberg Technology Tuesday for our exclusive

interview with Dara Cosmash. I'm catching up with him at Shop Top, one of the biggest retail conferences in the world in Las Vegas. Meantime, shares of ev maker Rivian rose to the highest level in three weeks. The company has been in the spotlight since it's glitzy November I p O, but the stock has tumbled ever since, and Rivian's value has fallen from one billion dollars to just

forty two billion. Bloomberg News spoke with the company's CFO, Claire McDonough, who says if the company can wramp up production and build capacity, the share price will quote take care of itself. With the war on Ukraine still raging and inflation here in the US, companies and investors alike contending with fall little markets. How long will it last? And what is the path forward? Let's talk about it

all with Kathy Gow, partner at Sapphire Ventures. Kathy, what are you telling your company's about how long to plan for this kind of market volatility and how to navigate it? Oh, Emily, It's so great to be here. First of all, as always, what confusing times we live in, right everyone is trying to make sense of it all, and I'm super happy to be here today to share my perspective as a

venture investor. Now, I think the word everyone is using today, including myself, to describe the current approach the market is uncertain. About half of the NASDAC had valuations slashed by fifty in a matter of weeks, and uncertainty is really the foe of the markets. This turbulence is creating a very

very confusing fundraising environment for tech entrepreneurs and for investors. Frankly, no one knows what's going to happen right But because no one has the magic ball, there are certain ways that founders can prepare themselves, even though we don't know when the other shoe, so to speak, will drop or how far it is to drop up. How is this impacting valuations? It certainly seems like things have taken a pause, if if not some companies maybe having to take a haircut.

If you're trying to raise money right now, well you know what private markets for software companies, and I focus on software companies, so other markets might be seeing different things have not yet meaningfully corrected. I am hearing some anecdotal stories about lower valuations and some reed trades in later stage deals, but there's not been a lot of

discernible pattern yet. Frankly, the early stage also seems to be quite insulated at this point in time, and I think it's important to also call out that there is a lag between public market movements and the private markets, and we haven't felt the full impact yet in the private markets now. This lag has been seen in prior cycles as well, in the dot com crash during the Great Recession. This time, there's also just a massive amount

of dry powder on the sidelines. I think over a hundred billion was raised last year by US venture capital firms alone. So given the amount of dry powder, do you think that we won't necessarily see as dramatic and impact on private markets that we would had all that money not been raised. It's definitely a counter counter force

to what's happening in the market. But you know, my my prediction is that we will see an impact in the private markets first with the late stage, which we're kind of seeing already, But usually these things take a quarter, two quarters, maybe three quarters to see and will hit the late stage companies first, flow into the mid sector, and then hit the earliest stage companies last. So what do you see it is coming next? If you could sort of map out the second half of the year.

What are you planning for at the end of the day. Um, what we do at Sapphire is striving to back the most exceptional entrepreneurs and companies of consequence and regardless of what's happening in the markets. Following that north star of investing in absolutely the best teams and companies I feel

will cut through the volatility in the longer term. Now, what I'm telling my CEOs are there are certain things you can do to protect your business in case the fundraising markets tighten up for the rest of the year. These are things like making sure that you have enough cash on your balance sheet right, taking care of your current customers. It costs way more to acquire a new customer than to retain an existing customer. And also don't

forget about retaining your employees as well. Kathy cow Sapphire Ventures, thank you for sharing your perspective with us. And now that big Apple news hearing it here first, Bloomberg has learned the iPhone maker is working on a subscription service for the I phone and other hardware products, a move that could make device ownership similar to paying a monthly app feed is according to people with knowledge of the matter, I want to bring in bloombergs Mark German who broke

this story. Mark, How exactly would this work? Yeah, thank you for having me. This would be no different, like you said, than your monthly ten dollar Apple Music subscription or fifteen dollar month Apple one Bundle subscription. Right, you'd be paying for the phone on a monthly basis like you might on a car least. Now, this is different

than installment programs and carry your subsidy programs today. What Apple and the carriers allow you to do if you don't want to buy the phone out right is split up the costs, whether that's two or less for an sc in such over twelve, eighteen, four or thirty months, depending on your carrier. This would be a set fee that's not the cost the phone, divided by you know how many months they're already year or two years? So? And will this apply to not just the iPhone, but iPads, laptops,

Apple watches? How far does this go? It'll start with the iPhone. Eventually it's possible that Apple will also expand it expand it to other hardware as well. Part of the program is the ability to upgrade to the new model annually as they come out. Just like if you have an Apple TV Plus subscription or an Apple Music subscription, you're constantly getting new features and content as part of that monthly fee you pay. And so there's other devices

that are also on an annual kaid. It's like the Apple Watch, like the iPad and the Mac in some respects as well. So I do see this expanding over time, and I also believe one day this could become the preferred method of buying Apple products instead of having to pay you know, those prices at the beginning of the purchase. So what does that mean for Apple in terms of revenue?

I mean, do you see this bringing in you know, significantly more revenue of people aren't buying the phones outright, but more people spring for that option because they don't have to. Well, this is going to be just one option, right, There's still a lot of people who are going to use the installment plans and installment programs from both Apple and the carriers. There's a lot of people who are

still going to the phone out right. This is going to be another option at check out when you go to the Apple online store to tie the subscription price to your Apple I D I think this is going to ultimately increase revenue for Apple because instead of just getting a one dollar payment once from a consumer, they might get per month for several years, right, and they're going to be able to sell those phones over many years to consumers and add up to maybe some consumers

paying three or four ARS a month for a group of Apple products and services. So I do think this is gonna be a positive for Apple, and it's going to mean more upgrades, more services purchases, more app downloads. So I think overall this is a smart transition that you're going to see happening. And they're not the only one doing this, right. Google has a program called Pixel pass Right, which is a subscription program for a combination

of their device and their services. Obviously, their devices nowhere near as popular as the iPhone, but they're trying it. Peloton as well. Peloton is testing a six monthly fee for leasing their bikes. Obviously Peloton is not doing as well as Apple, but again, these are examples of other companies moving in the same direction. When is this transition happening? Why can people do this? So they have been working

on this for a little while now. It was originally scheduled to launch sometime this year, at the end of this year, so probably between the end of this year and sometime next year. And how quickly do you expect Apple to ramp something like this up move from say an iPhone to other hardware products, you know, over time, right, I think it will start out if it works so with the iPhone. If they continue to generate more revenue on the iPhone and they work without this program, then

you probably would see this, you know, rapidly expanding. I think it will be iPhone focused iPhone first. Given there are so many installment and carrier plans, even Apple's own iPhone upgrade program, Apple's Apple Card monthly installments program with Goldman sacks to the phone. So I think they're just continuing to add different purchasing options for the iPhone to make it appealing to more and more people. So I think it'll be iPhone focus for at least a little while.

Bloomberg's Mark German scoop Mark, thank you for bringing that to us. Welcome back to Bloomberg Technology. I'm Emily Chang in San Francisco. We're still assessing the fallout of employees pushing back and walking out on Disney after CEO Bob Japeck initially refused to take a position on a controversial Florida bill, then changed course. One of my next guests says Bob j Peck needs to go, calling him the worst Disney leader he can remember, adding that the company

needs to bring back former CEO Bob Iger. Joining me now the man who said that, Ross Gerber, president and CEO of Gerber Kawasaki and a Disney investor. I'm also joined by Ivan fine Set, chief investment officer of Tiger's Financial who has a BY rating and twelve month price target of two dollars a share on Disney, which is the highest of all analysts tracked by Bloomberg. Gentlemen, thank you so much for joining us. Ross, I want to start with you. Why are you so disappointed in Bob

Peck so far? Well, first, it started with Starlett Johannesson, you know, when he first took over, and the way he was handling talent was just horribly done to ultimately end up giving her the same amount of money anyways, And and when you start ruffling feathers with the most talented people in your you know, movie business, that that

doesn't make sense. And then now we've moved on to political issues, where Disney has always had a long history of liberalism and and sort of educating our society about liberalism through movies and shows and animation. Um for so long we we expose our children to new ideas through Disney. So I found it incredibly poor leadership that an issue as simple as the one in Florida was one that

you know, Cha Peck waffled on. And it's something that's crucially important in our society today that we have more acceptance of of all people, and Disney stands for that. So the fact that this was a difficult issue for Chapec to deal with really just makes me doubt his ability as a leader. He should just be an operations person. And that's what I missed about Bob Iger. He was such a class act. He was such a gentleman and mensch um and and just always made Disney look good

no matter how difficult the situation is. And I'm biased because I'm a big fan of Bob Iger and I miss him, but you know, i'd love to see him back. I didn't. What's your reaction to that, given that you're clearly bullish, You've got such a high price target here, and you must I believe believe Bob J. Peck is

doing a good job. I do. First of all, he became CEO and right as we were going into the pandemic lockdown where travel was shut down, movie studios where production was shutdown, theaters were shutdown, cruise lines were shutdown, and the parks were shut down. And he did a great job stewarding the company um saving cash, cutting expenses and investing in the expansion and increased content for Disney Plus and their directed to consumer streaming services. So he

has gone through a really difficult time. I agree with Ross that Bob Iger was a great CEO, but I don't agree that UH in this unfortunate time that Bob J. Peck. I think he did a great job. And he said in his note to chare all two employees, if he took a hard stance either on either side of this position, that it would be used as a political weapon. And

I agree. And Disney is a company that that leads UH in a lot of areas, especially in acceptance, but they are not a political company and they do sidestep controversy whenever possible, So I don't really think he I think he acted as best he could in somebody in the situation that he's in. But the bigger picture, as far as investors, he has so far done a great job as the CEO in a very tough time, and I think he will continue to do so. As the

parks you know, open and travel open to area. See that to the extent parks have been opened, they've had record levels of attendance, pastor record ticket prices, record in part spending. So the company is doing well and he has grown um Disney's direct to consumer streaming services very well. Ivan is taking the stand on this bill though really a political issue. I mean, Disney has been about inclusion since you know, as far back as I can remember.

I mean, it's a small world, after all, we're taking a position on this bill from the beginning really have been that political at all, Yes, because it would have been whatever stance he took would have been used against him. But Ivan, what's wrong with taking a stance against discrimination and having people who are for discrimination be against you? See this is where I see leadership, Like, let me finish Running a park is one thing and leadership is another. I agree. If you put him in a room by

him self. He's done a great job operating Parks or Disney Plus. But a CEO's job is to be in the public and to represent the values of the business, not just operate the business. That's a CEO's job, and that's where he was and that's where he should be. But when you're talking about leadership and being scared to

take a position on such a simple thing. It is wrong to discriminate against gay people, especially children in school, and to make a law to do that, and have any confusion over this because you don't want right wingers attacking you like this is the problem. People care about the moral values of the CEO as much as it identifies with that company. And now you've got people on strike, and you've got nobody's happy with what he's done. So so ros here's a question. Look, Bob J. Peck got

a lot of pushback and then he changed course. He didn't want to this listening tour. Isn't that leadership when you can admit that you made a mistake. Yes, I know, not if the mistake is stupid, all right. I don't believe his stance was stupid, and I do like people who can change their opinion based on information, So the fact that people change their opinion on things, I don't think it's negative. I think it's a positive. Disney has

been a supporter of the LGBTQ community for years. They were one of the first companies to extend benefits to same sex partners over twenty five years ago, and they are extremely inclusive company that produces extremely inclusive and enlightening content. And I think he had given that. It's It's not

a a simple stance, and it happens to be. I mean, they have a tremendous presence in Florida, but Florida has been a very, very politically charged state, and unfortunately, I think his first reaction of not to take an extreme stance because it would have been used against him, and it is being used against them now no matter what position, And if he takes a a more progressive position toward it, he's also being criticized. So you can't criticize him on

both sides. But as far as so, my job as a research analyst is to focus on investment opportunities, and as an investment opportunity, I think Disney's brand equity, it's industry leadership, the quality of its content that direct to consumer streaming services, and the fact that they get really a tremendous bang for their investment in contact content dollar because not only is it on streaming, it's in theaters, it's on Broadway, it's in licensing, it's in driving people

to the theme parks, to their cruise ships. So they really create a lot of value with their content. And they are and as I say, in media, content is king and Disney is the king of So here's another question. Ross Bob Iger has said he's gone. Any thought that he might come back to this company is quote unquote ridiculous. So if if Bob Iger's not coming back, who who is is the right person to lead the company if not Bob Jpeck, or maybe we give Bob Jacobeck some

more time. So Poward Schultz just came back. So you know, you never want to say never, because I never would have suspected Howard Shultz would be back at Starbucks, which I think will be beneficial for spar Bucks. Um, I don't know. Iger's a very young person for his age, so he certainly has the physical ability to do this, and I think he has moved on from Disney. But I think the correct pick for CEO of Disney should have been Kevin Mayer. It should still be Kevin Mayer.

Kevin Mayer has gone on to do a wonderful job working in many different businesses. Now I've met Kevin, and I think he's one of the sharpest people in Hollywood. He's super connected, and he has the type of personality that could have handled this a lot better than Bob. Now, not to say that anything I've been saying is incorrect from an investment thesis, I actually own the stock personally and for my firm, not i'vean actually doesn't, and I'm

an activist shareholder. And so what that means is, as the owner of the business, I don't like what my CEO is doing, and so I'm talking about that. That's what I'm saying. I would like to have the CEO of Disney really represent the values of Disney. Now, the fact that he's going on a listening tour is called placating people. I don't think his views are any different. He's just got to placate people. And that's my problem

with all this. Oh he's listening and all this, Come on, all right, Ian, I'm gonna let you have the last word here because obviously Rosh put push back on a few things there. Yes, he's he's right about Howard Schultz, and I think that it's good to see it Starbucks, but I think this is a different situation. However, we do own Disney on behalf of clients in accounts that we manage. Our firm policy is that analysts and portfolio

managers cannot have personal positions in it. But I do have a buy on the stock, and we do own it on behalf of clients, and it's on our focused opportunity research list and portfolio. But the disclosure said your firm didn't known the stock? Sorry, Uh, what we do? I thought I was on it that we did. But um, but I think that j Peck it'll be a learning

experience for him and the company. And I think the bigger picture is a company has responsibility to a lot of stakeholders, not only shareholders, but employees, vendors, customers, convent people who visit the park, and um, you know they have a broad base of clients or customers that view their content, go to the movies, go on their cruise ships, go to the theme park too. So he has a big audience, a big group of stakeholders that he really has to care for, and I think that overall he's

done and we'll do a good job. Well. Certainly, Disney has a lot of opportunities and challenges ahead of course, shape himself. I appreciate both of you joining us and coming to play. Ross Gerber Ivan fine Seth will continue this debate coming up. Bitcoin rallying, but will it last? As the war on Ukraine rages, so does a volatility and crypto markets. We'll talk about all that and more

with Spencer Bogart from Blockchain Capital. That is next. This is Bloomberg time now for our crypto rapport, with Bitcoin climbing and more than forty four thousand for the first time in almost a month, breaking out of its recent narrow trading range. This increased closely mirroring gains among US equity indexes. But the cryptocurrency was also boosted by speculation that Russia is mulling accepting payments, accepting it for payments, and that the operator of the terror blockchain is buying

the digital token as a reserve. Let's talk about all that and more with my next guest, Spencer Bogart from blockchain capital spencer, What do you think was driving the jump today? Sure, I certainly think that all of those headlines are having an impact here. I think there's just broadly also a question of what type of heart assets to people want to own in an inflationary environment, and I think that that backdrop is also driving additional demand

for bitcoin and another heart assets. And yeah, bitcoin has been trading in a fairly narrow range over the last few weeks, despite being show such a big part of the news, and you know, these global headlines that we're seeing, why do you think that is? I think it's part of a longer term trajectory of bitcoin just seen reduced volatility over to time as its market cap and trading

volume and market infrastructure matures. Um. So, you know, I think that that recently there's been some debate about what the current market backdrop of you know, succored growth, increased demand for horrid assets means coupled with the world of rising interest rates where the price of money or the cost of capital is increasing and maybe pulling out from some of the more volatile segments of the market. So looking at short term moves, what about the long term

what happens to bitcoin? What is bitcoin? What does the market look like five years out? We took we talked to Mike novograts about that galaxy digital tike a coal glisten to what he has to say. The whole year. I thought we'd be a thirty thousand fifty thousand range in bitcoin risk to the upside, not the downside. Um. But I think you know, five years out, if bitcoin is not at five thousand, I'm wrong. On the adoption cycle,

Uh right, we see an adoption cycle that accelerates. Bitcoin grew so much faster last year, crypto grew than the Internet did its best years in the nineties. Spencer, is it at five thousand dollars and five years exactly? I'm not really sure. And look, Novo and I might agree on many different points, but um, I agree with them here. I think that people overthink bitcoin and crypto as a whole um quite often. I mean, realistically, I think the easiest thing to do here, to do well is to

have a long term time horizon. You know what's going to happen in any particular day, week, month, or even year. UM is extraordinarily uncertain UM, and a lot of people I think preferred to do themselves brain damage trying to anticipate those market moves, when I think the easier solution here is to have a small percentage of your portfolio and orient towards the long term, and that could be just bitcoin or could be a basket of crypto assets.

What's your take on President Biden's executive order and the role that crypto is playing in the war on Ukraine. Do you think we are looking at a turning point in history for this cryptocurrency and cryptocurrency in general. Potentially, I certainly think the crypto is a component of this discussion. Right think that what's been made very clear, not just with the war in Ukraine, but I think across global events over the past couple of years has really become

evident that money and financial services have become weaponized. And sometimes that weaponization is used for things that UM the would probably have broad support um and other times there's opposition. But regardless, there is demand for a neutral a political money and infrastructure, and that's what bitcoin and public block gains represent. But there's also a concern that cryptocurrency and digital assets could be weaponized, for example, that Russian oligarchs

could use it to circumvent sanctions. Does that concern you? It does not concern me. Most of the the U S. Governments, and for an experts on these agree that there is no material portion of money laundering or sanctions evasion that occurs via cryptoto um so I don't think it's a material issue. And clearly the vast majorities it occurs in hard assets. It's like gold or in paper U S. Dollars. Alright, Spencer, folk,

are always good to have you here. Thank you for giving us a long term view blockchain capital, getting back to travel, more and more people looking to get away, and who better to talk about that and more than the CFO of Away herself, Katherine dun Levy, who joins us now, Catherine, thank you so much for joining us. So obviously there's a lot of conflicting things happening in the world right now. In some places, it seems like the pandemic is nearing an end. In China, for example,

we're seeing a spike in infections. In the United States, you're seeing businesses reopen and this effort to try to live with the virus no matter how badly it comes back. How is this all impacting travel in the months and year ahead. While travel is seeing a really terrific recovery. You can see it in t s A throutput numbers that are almost back to pre pandemic levels. AM Track four million more passengers of books this year than last year, and even road trips. More road trips are being taken

these days. So people are just wanting to get out. And I think it's important to note Emily that the definition of travel has really changed post pandemic. Travel can still be a trip across the country or across the world, perhaps, but it can just as easily be a trip or a hike to Upstate New York, for example, walk around the block, or even just going to the gym. People are getting out of their house and with a way, are making the products that are inspiring all those journeys.

Is what's happening in China a concern to you, though, I mean, obviously it's a massive country. You know, there's a strict they're more restrictive lockdown measures. You know, what are you taking away from that? Well? I think that again, people view travel as a critical part of their self care routine, and so they're going to find a way to travel. It will just be different. They're gonna find the ways to travel that are safe for them. So no, it's not concerned me. How has this all impacted a

ways business? I know you've launched some new products over the last couple of years, but you know, obviously you still need a suitcase whether you're going to driving to a national park or flying across the country. Right so away, we have a lot of a lot of momentum. Every quarter and month of last year we saw an increase in demand. In fact, in the fourth quarter of demand exceeded pre pandemic levels. And we just closed the books of February and I'm happy to tell you that our

revenue was up over compared to prepidemic levels. How is a way adapting to the pandemic or what have you learned from the last two years about maybe how to be more nimble and next two years? Well, you know, we just kept going during the pandemic. As you mentioned, we launched new products of pet Carrier, we launched a new store in Seattle, and we took the time to write a long range plan that positions us for future

growth no matter what happens. And so we have put in place great supply chain strategies that allow us to build inventory and have it close to the consumer so that no matter what happens, we will be able to meet consumer demand. And that's exactly why our results are so strong. And what about the rise in inflation and gas prices and how that's going to hit consumer pocketbooks? This travel going to be the first thing to go or no, because people haven't been able to do it

for so long. Yeah, it's a good question, and we've spent a lot of time talking to our consumers about that, and what they're telling us is that again it's a part of their self care routine and it has moved up in their share of wallet and fort of people expect to spend more even with the current economic and unknown conditions for are spending more than they did um before the pandemic on travel. All right, well, certainly going to be an interesting set of months and year ahead.

Katherine Dunlevy, CFO of AWAY, thanks so much for joining us to share your view and wants to come And that does it for this edition of Bloomberg Technology. You can join us tomorrow. We'll be joined by A. A. Kantorovich, head of Institutional Coverage and falcon X to talk about all things crypto and much more. And don't forget to check out our new podcast. You'll find it on the terminal,

of course, and online. You can find it at Apple, Spotify, I Heart, and basically wherever you get your podcasts of Emily Chang. This is Bloomberg