Bessent Says US Must Win on AI and Quantum; Hollywood Shaken by Tariff Threat

Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news from the heart of where innovation, money and power collide in Silicon Valley and beyond. This is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline Hyde and Ed Ludlow.

Live from New York and Caroline Hyde and this is Bloomberg Technology coming up markets. They are on edge as trade concerns holt the four day winning street for tech stocks. This as President Trump announces plans to impose one hundred percent tariffs of films produced overseas, slamming media companies and Microsoft, surpassing Apple becoming the largest US company by market value.

We'll bring you that.

Conversation live as it gets underway. The President Trump is taking aim at the movie industry and announcing plans to impose check this out, one hundred percent tariff on films produced overseas. Now is all in a post on truth social adding quote, we want movies made in America again. Bloommeg's Tyler Kennell joins us Now for more details and in fact, movie moguls in the industry went to the President saying we want movies made in the US with tax credits, he proposes something very different.

Yeah, hey, Caroline. While President Trump has often taken the stick verse cared approach, saying no to those subsidies and incentives instead of yes to his tariff plans. As you alluded to there, Bloomberg News reporting that John Voight and his agent met with President Trump at Mara a Lago over the weekend and asked him to put forward some tax excentives, including expanding a current tax credit that would help boost production in the US. But there's still now

That signals two things for US.

One, that's likely the justification that this White House will take Whether or not that means they're going to evoke IIBA or Section two thirty two really remains to be seen. Since we haven't actually seen an executive order putting these into motion. We do know that the USTR and Commerce Department are working on looking into this, and the second thing it indicates is that these tariffs would likely face some heavy legal scrutiny if they are put into effect.

I mean, we're seeing sir an analysts saying this would just reap devastation upon the US entertainment industry tailer. More broadly, costs would rise the many, but remind us of perhaps what the anxiety has been why other countries US outside the US. We think the UK, we think Canada have managed to pull away a lot of US production.

Right, and that really does have to do with the tax incentives and lower labor costs as well as production costs.

And the Most Picture.

Association does say that employees about two point three two million people in the US in this industry alone, but actually pulled some other statistic for you, which is that US spending on film and TV production fell twenty eight percent between twenty twenty one and twenty twenty four, according to data from research firm fraud Pro and its countries that you're talking about, like Australia, New Zealand, the UK, also Canada that have really pulled ahead when it comes

Certainly, Tyler Kendall, with all the latest from the White House, we thank you. Now let's get more market reaction, not just media entertainment stocks, but more broadly. Daniel Morgan's with us senior portfolio manager that's the Nervous Trust Company, and Daniel, you focus mainly on the Magnificent seven, big tech and chips more broadly rather than media names. But it does feel that once again tariffs are the eye of the storm.

Yeah, so, Caroline, I mean it keeps extending to different groups. I mean, obviously it's going to affect a company like Netflix, which is kind of used to be in the talk of those saying magnificent seven. But again, you know, Caroline, if you look at the tariffs in terms of all these different industry groups, it seems like technology is the hardest hit. Even though there's a reprieve on PCs and smartphones, you don't know if that reprieve is going to be

That's going into individual names, Daniel, because of course we just talked about how Apple has switched places with Microsoft, it's no longer the most valuable company on the SMP for example, we seem to see hardware hit the hardest at the moment. Is Apple just one that you cannot rebuy into until as a future catalyst, Carolin.

Apple's a tough stock because before the teriffs even came out, there were a lot of concerns that there would be a delay in users upgrading to the new iPhones because they didn't have the same AI serie personal assistant technology that everybody was hoping for that would be unveiled. Looks like it's going to go into the iPhone seventeen that's

So they are in a really.

Difficult position caring because they are so heavily entrenched in the Pacific Rim, not just China, but through all their supply chains and manufacturing. They do about fifteen percent in India, but for them to move that out of that part of the world is going to be very challenging.

So they have a very tough road.

To go, and there were factors and headwinds that were up against them even before the whole tariff news.

And Daniel, we actually at least got some sort of admission of a lack of clarity from executives, and we got some feeling for fundamentals in earnings. We've still got earnings to come. I know you've been thinking about what AMD is going to give us. Tonight, we get pal Andeer and it's been a real winner over the last year or so. But even software feels a little bit of pressure today. You look for in some of these earning still left.

Well, Palantar is a whole different game, Carolin, because they're in the defense industry, but they're a tech sector. But you know, looking into let's say advanced market Devices, which reports on Tuesday, we know that Intel, when they reported two weeks ago their data center group revenues were up ten percent. Will get another window into data center revenues.

I'm afraid, Daniel, I'm going to have to leave it there for a moment, so kind of you to join us, but we have to go over to the Milken Conference in Los Angeles. Treasury Sectory Scott Besson has started speaking seventies.

He had the rare combination of guts and intellect to defy the Wall Street consensus. With his heterodox approach to junk bonds, he pioneered a new asset class known today as high yield bonds. By staying true to his vision, Mike overturned decades of economic orthodoxy. He bootstrapped entirely new industries by redirecting billions of dollars in cap to non investment grade companies.

His colleagues on Wall Street told.

Him he was delusional and a fool, but ultimately history proved him right.

Sound familiar like Mike Milkan.

President Trump has no shortage of critics in establishment circles, but he proved them wrong in his first term, and he is proving them wrong again today. On President Trump's first day in office, he vowed to usher in a new golden age for our country, a golden age. America deserve a golden age. America deserves a golden age economy. So for the past one hundred days, we've been preparing the soil. We have uprooted government waste and harmful regulations.

You'll be glad you did, not only because we have the.

Most productive work force in the world, but because we will soon have the most favorable tax and regulatory environment as well. This is where tax incentives and deregulation come into play. You may have heard one big, beautiful bill floating around Congress. This bill is big and beautiful for Main Street America and investors alike. The President's signature tax legislation will prevent an enormous tax hike on Main Street

To that end, he.

Has signed executive orders to reduce the federal approval process for new energy and construction projects from several years to just a few months. This simple reform will unleash the creative potential of America's builders. It will empower business leaders like you to put your capital to work as quickly and efficiently as possible. The building renaissance will be fueled by the President's Energy Dominates agenda. Energy is the base layer of all economic activity.

That's why the.

Administration champions and all of the above approach to energy development to drive down the cost of doing business. I hope you can see the bigger picture now. The Trump economic agenda is more than the sum of its parts. Trade, tax cuts, and deregulation may be three distinct policies, but each policy is mutually reinforcing and acting in concert. They push toward the same goal to solidify our position as the home.

Of global capital. The result of.

The President's economic plan will be more more jobs, more homes, more growth, more factories, more critical manufacturing plans, more semiconductors, more energy, more opportunity, more defense, more economic security, more innovation. In short, more of all things we need the most. The President believes we can achieve more together. This is the abundant vision he has for the future. He wants everyone to be a part of it.

Thousands of businesses are now catching the President's vision.

Since he assumed office in January companies have pledged to invest trillions into the US economy. President Trump has secured more investment for our country in one hundred days than President Biden did during all four years. Entrepreneurs, too, are starting to understand what the President is.

Trying to accomplish.

Mart sold one of the highest levels ever recorded for new business applications. Many of these men and women, like many of you, are grasping that America First is a blueprint for.

More abundant world for now. A parting thought.

When I entered public service, I spent more than forty years in the asset management business. There one mantra guides one of the world's most successful investors. Never bet against America. Warren Buffett coined the phrase, and it's been his load star as long as he's been in the game. Never bet against America captures a time tested truth. The American economy is unstoppable. Throw whatever you will at our capital markets, the Great Depression, two World Wars nine to eleven, a COVID recession.

Of the last few years, or sky high inflation.

Each time the American economy gets knocked down, it gets back up again, and it gets back up even stronger than it was before US markets are anti fragile. Indeed, the entire history can be distilled into just five words up and to the right. On a long term horizon, it's it's never a bad time to invest in America, but especially now. The United States is entering a new golden age of economic prosperity for both Main Street and Wall Street. And we don't want anyone to get left behind.

Thank you all, Please welcome Institute Chairman Michael Milkin.

So, as a scholar in college, a leading university, an accomplished fund manager, former professor, and distinguished career in finance and academic, your range of life options was unlimited. What inspired you to choose the field of public service? Joining President Trump's administration in a very high profile and I should say high pressure role.

I would agree on all the above.

So, Mike, there was a long, long art desire for public service. I had tried or considered going to the Naval Academy, and I was applying in nineteen seventy nine.

I wanted to serve my country.

Due to central orientation, I was unable to so, even since I was a teenager. I wanted to serve my country, and I'd had a great career like many people in this room and finance, the country had been good to me, and as an economic history scholar, I was shocked at what was happening with these budget deficits. So last year six point seven percent of GDP highest ever when.

We weren't at war, weren't in.

A recession, and I wanted to come out from behind my desk and be part of the solution because I was afraid the four more years of that, and it was kind of a deeply cynical plan.

I thought, run up the.

Debt and then have to raise taxes and really buy me the American engine of growth, innovation, and opportunity.

Well, we once again were very happy you took up that mission. And I can't think of a better person at this time to be the Secretary of the Treasury.

Let me try.

Over the years, we've had a number of Secretary's Treasuries that were not really into financial markets, and so you're the right person at the right time. But it's interesting when I think about it, and how do you strike the balance between the administration's goal of reindustrialization in the US and the risk of isolating the US economy.

Well, I think that they're not mutually exclusive. And as I've said many times that obviously in this trade puzzle, China's the biggest piece.

Where do we end up with China?

And I said during IMF week in Washington, said, you know, it's possible that we could, as Ray Dalio might say, do a big, beautiful rebalancing that if we want more manufacturing, everyone agrees except Chinese leadership, that they need more consumption, we could actually do that together. And then look on the other side that getting better terms of trade is not always a right line.

It's not always a pleasant process.

But I think at the end, the trading relationships will be stronger, our security and values ties will still be there.

I look back and I.

Think about the example of NATO and German fiscal spending. So I lived in London for a long time, rand the Soro's office there, and since the well forever actually the whether it's a French president, the Italian Prime minister, people in Brussels were trying to break open the German piggybank, and President Trump not in a straight line, not in what would be what anyone would call a diplomatic manner has gotten NATO countries to step up and meet their

I think so.

So let's talk maybe about a specific situation. You recently sign an historic economic partnership with Ukraine, and as you said, there was a little few bumps along the way. Can you walk us through the role that the Treasury played and what is expected to come out of this agreement?

And let's hold backwards that. I was amused, gratified.

To see that on Saturday as I was coming out here. Friday, as I was coming out here, Washington Post lead headline was Russia now nervous after US Ukraine signed deal, and that I believe that this would happen in February. President Trump believed that it would happen in February. And this was President Trump's idea. He likes negotiating, as you know a lot of people in this room probably know, and he likes creating negotiating leverage for himself and the Ukraine

A good deal. This isn't a good deal. And I said, well, if it's.

Not a good deal, why did the Russians bomb Kiev for the first time? So I went on February tenth, the Russians bomb Kiev at four in the morning for an hour for the first time since November because they knew the train arrived at eight and so before I got there. So if the Russians, if we were pro Russian and this was a terrible deal for the Ukrainians, why didn't the Russians want it signed?

So then.

President Zelenski elected not to sign it that day. He elected not to sign it. At the Munich Security Conference a few days later, there was a little incident at the White House. Some of you may have seen. President Trump called it great TV and when the deal went south that day. And I actually think in terms of the final deal, and I'm sure you everyone in this room has seen it that sometimes the blow up, you

A four page memorandum of understanding.

After that blow up, Treasury made the decision to try to make the blow up into an opportunity and my team. I instructed my team to go straight to writing the full agreement, which is six different agreements, varying lengths, but hundreds of pages. So we worked on that document, and then when there was the recovery and trust between President Trump president Zelenski after the meeting at the Vatican, we

Sign here, it's a loan to own.

You're going to default on the debt. We're going to own all your minerals, and that's life. This is economic partnership. They put in assets, we put in capital from the DFC, American best practices and know how.

And it's fifty to fifty. It's equity, not debt.

And some of our European partners were criticizing me at the G seven and I said, you know, you know, guys, if you want to tray if you want to do a debt for equity swap, why don't you write off your Ukraine debt and we'll let you into our partnership.

No one's called me yet.

Well, you know, I think what struck me, mister Segrete was this major oil fine off Guiana and Venezuela rattling the sabers, and had sent a couple military ships. The US then asked them what you're doing because that's Exxon that's a US company. And I think that to me underlined part of the strength of this agreement.

You struck.

Let's talk about one element that many people have been concerned about, and that is what are the key components of deregulation. I know it's part of your economic strategy to spur growth. Are there any specific regulations that are at the top of your list for reform.

Yes.

As I said one of the smaller group meetings last night, maybe a few people in the room interested in private credit, and Treasury is taking the lead on financial deregulation, and I think private credit is an incredible new the bolt on to the world's deepest the breadth and death of the world's deepest capital markets, but the growth of private Credit tells me that the regulated banking system has been too tightly constrained.

So we have set up a treasury.

I convened something called FSOC Financial Stability Oversight Council, and President Trump tasks me with helping him choose the leaders for the financial regulators. So they have installed a new vice chair for Supervision at the FED, Mickey Bowen.

We are going to have a new.

OCC head FDIC, Paul Atkins has just taken over the SEC. Brian Quinn is at CFTC. So the regulators are aligned and we are going to be like safe, sound and smart and redoing regulated financial entities.

And then, as I mentioned in my.

Talk energy, that's a pretty easy playbook. But the real impetus is going to be on permitting across all industries. And that's where the EP comes in, putting pressure on state and regular The federal government's going to put pressure on state and local governments to speed up the process, the permitting process. So what's the use in giving one year depreciation if it's thirty six months to break ground. One CEO recently told me he was talking about the

In Chicago, we.

Are still seven years into the planning process, so we want to make everyone look more like Texas.

Well, you have you're in an area here called Malibu where maybe in fifteen years you can build a house. So we are very accussed them to this. Let me talk about another issue. It was in twenty seventeen that our theme of the Global Conference was building meaningful lives. Part of that was a reflection on the disruptions we saw emerging from advances in AI, robotics, digital assets. The world we felt was heading for significant change, and we

Well, I said in my confirmation hearing that we have to win in AI and quantum that if the United States doesn't take the lead, if we don't win, everything else doesn't matter.

If we lose the and I think.

China's catching up, which is natural, but I think we will maintain.

Our leadership on that.

And again, what we are trying to do is not pick winners and losers.

We are just.

Trying to set the environment for the best opportunity for our entrepreneurs to succeed. Stop intellectual property theft, and in terms of making it accessible to all Americans, I think that's going to be very important.

I was out on the campaign.

Trail with President Trump and I was struck by there had been a big migration by the venture capital community President Trump. It so on one side, you've got the vcs, the most innovative the people in the world. You got Elon Musk, the richest in the world, and the presence. Penultimate rally that I went to was in Pittsburgh, and the steel workers showed up and they got their best on.

In Pittsburgh.

Well, that is a great goal and we hope we achieved it. From that standpoint, interest rates, you know, you've often talked how important that ten year interest rate level is, and I when I look at financial markets over a long period of times, I can sometimes identify when that end vigil had come into financial markets, by what period

So in the nineteen.

Fifties, please don't share that with the president.

So in the nineteen fifties, if you were trading governments, it was like watching pain dry. You could see an entire variation of maybe two percent in price in an entire decade. We now have seen a variation of more than two percent, occurring more than one day. How do you see the importance of the level of interest rates in our economy and what you want to achieve.

I think that I'm not going to talk about the FED. I said, I won't talk about their future mistakes. I'll only talk about their past mistakes. So I thought it was focused. I thought it was important to focus on the tenure. And the tenure has a lot of things wrapped in it. It's the short term rates, it's the term premium, and we're focused on creating the best environment

If we can do it.

The goal on one side, I call it reprivatizing the

Government employment.

And then on the other side, through financial deregulation, we're releveraging the private sector, and then the excess employment that was shed in the government economy can go to the private sector. One thing I've never lived in DC before, but one thing that really struck me was within a ten mile radius of DC. Twenty five percent of the

So we were making decision where to have the Milking Institute School of Public Health. Besides the fact the executive office building is one block away from GW, but every major decision on medical was located within a mile or so. And so the decision, ultimately, with the talent we had there, with Lynn Goldman and others, is we would go to GW because the decisions were being made there.

As you know, we spend.

Twelve years building this building across the street from your new home and the Treasury and the Center for the American Dream, and we thought it was a four year project.

It turned out to be a twelve year project.

But this passion for the ideal of American Dream, I believe is something you truly believe in. We've been asking ten thousand individuals in more than one hundred countries around the world that live there or have come here how they interpret that phrase. What does that mean? What does the American dream that you're going to protect for so many of us?

What does it mean to you?

It means a shared vision. We're going to approach the two hundred and fiftieth anniversary next year, or we will have the two hundred and fiftieth anniversary next year, and it's.

What what does the next two point fifty look like?

And to me, it's the equal opportunity for great outcomes.

It's like I.

Said, it's equal opportunity if you're one of the children of the construction workers in the Ducaine Arena on November fourth, that you might be sitting here because you founded a financial services company, or because you're a medical researcher, or it's the opportunity for people in this room to continue to prosper.

But to me, it's two things.

It is the fact that the system works and that there is mobility, that we get rid of these discouraging surveys of families that and children who don't think they're going.

To do as well as their parents.

So we need a belief in the system and we need to canue making sure that the system works.

So to me, that's the American Dream.

Well you've wrapped that up in in a bow for us here, and that what we have found in every survey for twelve years is the number one essential agreement condition that exists for the American dream was freedom to live your life, whether you wanted to be a steel worker, or whether you wanted to work in finance or wherever you wanted to pursue, or whether you wanted to be

To your stewardship for the next few years. Thank you very much.

Thick you you were listening to US Treasury Secretary Scott Lessont of course with Michael Milkin at the Milking conference over in Los Angeles, just tying up some of the statements that were made more broad by the Treasury Secretary talking about how the United States is anti fragile in particularly they dwelt upon the ten uere important to focus on the tenure Treasury and has lots of components to it. He's saying they're trying to create the best environment for

Yeah, that's right.

I mean Apple is able to deal with a lot, right, but right now they have I would say more than a lot going on. They have tariffs right that could up end product pricing, device planning, is supply chain. You had a judge in California rule last week that Apple must stop charging developers for in AT purchases completed outside of the App Store. Obviously, the vast majority of revenue Apple gets from the app store is in AT purchases. That's why Apple tried to protect that twenty seven thirty

The search deal with Google.

Google obviously pays Apple that much to make the Google search engine the default provider on the Safari web browser across all of Apple's products and services, and so that is another lever that could potentially hurt Apple. You have the ongoing struggles in AI, you have a developer conference in June. You have the ongoing DOJ lawsuit you have increased scrutiny happenating in the European Union, in Korea and Japan constantly new threats of fines for a large percentage

And we saw that in their earnings posted just last week. Mark German. It's was always a must read. I urge of yours to go and check out Power on thanks to summarizing for us. I Meanwhile, let's get over to the world of big tech, from big tech to the big screen, because media stocks they're under pressure after President Trump, and that's his plans to impose tear are some movies

I mean, without question, a lot of people were thrown off guard, very confused by what exactly it meant and also what Trump's real intentions are. You know, based on our reported we know that he spent some of The Weekend with actor John Voyd and Voights manager Stephen Paul. John Voyd is one of kind of Trump's ambassadors to try to figure out how to bring production back to

Well, stick thin carrot, and so we see who most implicated here, because Barcley's already coming out with a note basically saying we export more than three times and we import in terms of movie making, and you're hurting the very industry you're trying to help.

Yeah, the Motion Picture Association, which is the trade group that represents all the Hollywood studios, has not said anything publicly, but they do have reports where they showed that the US is a net exporter, that we have a positive trade balance with every other country. I mean, you just think about it.

The biggest, highest.

Grossing movies of the year every year tend to be US movies. You know, the most watched TV shows the most popular streaming services. All of these are American products for the most part. You know, in terms of the impact, it's really hard to know without knowing how the tariffs to be applied.

A lot of people have.

Asked me, like, how do you even tear iff a movie? And I'm not sure what to tell.

Them exactly what value is the movie at and where exactly who finding that revenue stream to hit Lucas Shaw, We appreciate it. I'm sure we're happing many more questions coming away soon. Meanwhile, though, coming up, you know, musk says Ai should be used to replace the functions currently done by some public workers. That conversation's up next, plus so much more for the milkn Conference. A conversation with the ny CEO Robin Vince is a.

Blue met technology.

Let's go back to the Milking Conference now for a conversation with bny CEO Robin Mince Romain mostictionally base as selling by.

Thanks Carolin and live here on the Milkin stage. The CEO of B and Y joins us right now, Robin Vince.

Robin, you're a man who's been traveling the world.

You're a man with two trillion dollars in assets under management, fifty three trillion dollars under your custody.

What are your clients asking you right now? Yeah, well there's a lot going on.

So it's great, first of all, great to be with you, Great to be here at milk And this is one of those places where everything comes together from around the world. As you said, I have been traveling and actually you've just hid different things from clients in different places according to where you are. I've been in Europe, I've been in India, I've been in the Middle East.

That's all over the course of the past couple.

Of weeks, and I would say the sentiment varies a little bit. We're having to explain.

So, first of all, there is a signal.

A noise problem when we talk to our clients internationally. People can't really tell the difference between the tactics and the strategy of what's coming out.

You know, what's the difference between tariffs.

And real trade policy? What does it mean on deregulation? Why are these things happening? And so I think all us CEOs find themselves in this perspective.

We were joking about this earlier on, but.

We kind of have to be a bit explainers in chief first and foremost, so what's actually going on.

That's what they're interested in.

Now, within those continents there are different perspectives as well. So in India, there was a lot of conversation about, Okay, what are the opportunities for India, what might a trade deal look like? How could the India benefit from the opportunities associated with all of this? In Europe a little bit more what on earth is going on?

Is the US a reliable partner?

It's one thing to be confused by what's going on in the US, But are those clients actively or at least specifically.

Talking about pulling away from the US?

Well, I think some of them are thinking about it, and so in Europe I would say there's a little bit more of that narrative, less so in the Middle East.

The Middle East a recognition that they are.

Sort of sitting in the middle of the world geographically and also geopolitically in some cases, and so they observe what's going on, they take some reaction to it, but at the end of the day, they're interested in long term relationships. In Europe, I would say there's a little bit more of a reaction against it.

Maybe they feel a little bit more that they've been.

Put on the spot, and there are certainly conversations about can they derisk now, I say de risking is a little easier said than done.

Sometimes there's a.

Reason why the US capital markets are the world's greatest, the most liquid, the dollar supremacy, the treasury is the risk free asset the growth in the United States. It's not so easy to just say, hey, we're out up to the.

Treasury market because this is where Bnymelan is a huge player. B and Y is this massive central intermediary.

What is the risk?

Ultimately, it's not just the liquidity concerns we've seen in the midst of the trade war. It is also what we're going to see in the future as we get closer to that X state. Do you have any concerns around how countries around the world might view the treasure Well.

I think we all have to be very realistic about the fact that the treasury market is one of the world's most important markets.

As you said, yes, liquidity was reduced. The depths at.

The top of the order book was down probably about eighty percent or so at one point two or three weeks ago.

Now that doesn't mean.

That the market wasn't functioning. It was working really well. We were settling over twenty trillion dollars of treasuries a day and it was all working, but there was it was harder to move blocks of risk. Now it's a complicated problem because yes, we've got the x state. Yes, seven percent deficit is it's a significant thing.

To be running and at some point that has to be brought under control. That is not a long term, tenable situation. It's got to be brought down to a more manageable number. So people are looking at that.

Now.

Compounding all of that is the question of okay, do people still have the faith in the United States and the treasury market? And that's why I would say, of course people are talking about it, but there are a lot of things that underpin the US treasury markets and the confidence, the dollar supremacy, the rule of law, the liquidity, and it's easier said than done to pull away from something like that.

The Treasury Department has been talking about the potential to provide relief for the banking system via the SLR, the supplementary leverage ratio in order to make treasury markets function more easily in times of these sources of stress.

Do you think that's necessary?

Does there need to be regulatory relief more immediately and will it fix the problem?

Well, I think it will be helpful, is the punchline answer to your question. And Secretary Bustance been pretty clear about this. He is a supporter of making sure that we have the deepest, most liquid market in the world in the treasury market to benefit the US taxpayer in the US economy. And so the question is what are all of the things that can be brought to bear

It's a three legged stool.

They had objective around trade, they have an objective around taxes, and they also have a deregulat tree agenda. And what we need is we need banks and other market participants to be able to fully access the market and to intermediate and keep them liquid in the treasury market.

And I think SLR reform is part of that equation.

Is that liquidity there right now? And I specifically go back to the start of April when you had the big sell off in financial market, which a lot of people speculate was tied to a potential gum up and what was going on in thic Syncome specifically with treasuries.

I wouldn't say there was a gum up.

The infrastructure working fine, the rails were in good shape. What there was was a lack of buyers and we had a reduced liquidity in the market for sure.

And that's not the same as I don't want to get into semantics, but isn't that the gum up?

If the buyers aren't there then what I think they're two different things.

One is is there an actual good operation in the market.

Are things functioning properly? If you do a big trade, will it settle? Will it flow through?

We've had problems in the past in the markets, so that hasn't been true. We didn't have any of those issues this time. This is a question of buyers and sellers coming together in the marketplace and was there enough liquidity?

And it was down a lot.

But that's where I think things like SLR reform can be helpful because.

We want intermediaries to play a role.

Banks have to play an important role in the treasury market. They used to but they've been moved out of the treasury market by rules like the SLR, and we're certainly actively in favor of thinking about that leverage ratio reform as the regulators are now talking about it now.

The problem we brought up was the deficit.

Realistically, another part of the agenda here for the White House is the tax reform as well. If you do see some of the President's measures get passed, do you have faith that the deficit has any chance of being anything closer to being closed.

Well, it's going to be important that ultimately happened. Seven percent is not a long term, tenable situation to have as a gap, and so we need to see either on the tax side or on of course, the growth of the economy side.

If you have a bigger economy, you can.

Actually collect more taxes even if taxes are the same level or reduced, and so we want the economy to grow.

Growth enables everything else. All right, Robin, we have to leave it there. I really appreciate you taking time.

We're going to check out your panel a little bit later, live from the milkne stage. Robin Vince, the CEO of BNY Caroline.

Great Interview Shnani Besac Remain ball stick.

This is pretty big tech