From Mahard where Innovation, money and power Collie in Silicon Vallet NBN. This is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline Hyde and Ed Ludlow.
I'm Caroline Heider Bloomberg's world headquarters in New York, and I'm Ed Ludlow in San Francisco.
This is Bloomberg Technology coming up.
Chip design firm ARM surgers in the most since it's IPO after a bullish outlook on sales, will sit down with the CEO Renee has to discuss.
Plus the mousehouse spikes as cost cutting benefits and international theme park strength boost the company's results.
Full coverage ahead.
And Amma's limited release of its vision pro fetching as much as five thousand dollars in the resale market.
This is the story ARM a massive surge in the stock. It's to say this is the biggest jump since they listed in September, but we are up fifty eight percent and it is the outlook for the current period going way beyond estimates.
Evidence that this is.
No longer a name offering the building blocks or blueprints for semiconductors, with royalties and licensing on the underlying code that allows a chip to communicate with the software that it runs.
It's not a smartphone story.
There's evidence that the diversification that Rene has has been pushing for is now there. We are seeing evidence there are questions around the AI story for sure. Then look at parents soft Bank SOFTWAK owns ninety percent of the company, right, but they are saying overnight in their own earnings, we are putting ARM front and center, Caroline, in of our AI strategy.
What does that look like? This is a wild.
Market reaction, but it's vindication for a story this company has been trying to tell.
Absolutely extraordinary market reaction and on the back of that, we want to welcome our Bloomberg TV and radio audiences. ARM shares more than fifty percent higher. The bullish outlook is something we can now discuss. For the CEO, Renee has joining us, and Renee you must feel vindication.
You are trying to tell this story at the IPO and boom your deliver.
Well, thank you, Carolyn. Yes, we're really happy with the results that we posted. Additionally, very very good feelings about the forecast going forward. But as you said, this is really the results of strategy that were put in place a number of years ago that are now just really starting.
To come to fruition.
Yeah, when we think about the vindication, when we think though still about basically more of your technology going into more types of equipment. You managed to see a diversification out of phones. Paint us the strategy of ARM going forwards, because many would say, actually, you're not just well the overall designer of chips, you're basically making the chips.
You're fabulous in some way.
Is how do you see that relationship going forward with Qualcom, for example, Well, a lot of folks.
You know, as you said, didn't really understand the company well and where we fit. And obviously we had a lot of growth attached to the smartphone market. But ARM is in a lot of devices that people may not naturally think about.
We're in a Tesla vehicle, We're in a Ford f one.
Fifty, We're in a Ring smart camera, We're in the Samsung TV, a Samsung smart appliance. So just about every device you can think of has ARM inside, and just about every device you can think of needs more and more compute, particularly as AI is now driving a whole new demand cycle.
Talk to us about AI. Jeffrey is really singling that out the analyst. They're saying that this really shows your beneficiary from AI.
But where does the AI focus come You, of course were in video before.
They are all about AI accelerators and I'm interested as to whether or not that would be an area that you get into other than servers.
Well, right now, in video is a great partner their Gracehopper chip, a super chip uses a lot of arm CPUs in combination with their GPU, which is a really really great solution for high end AI training in the data center as well as inference. But when you start moving to smaller devices, say smartphones or PCs, well AI
is going to run there too. If you look at some of the recent announcements by by Samsung and Google relative to their smartphones, there's a lot of things such as circling and image on a browser and then having that browser go off and do search based on the circle. That's AI that's actually running in a smartphone. And what we're seeing is really a drive for more and more compute capacity to run these AI algorithms, some that people
don't even know what they are yet. But what designers want to do and need to do is future proof their designs.
Was more and more.
Compute, and that is really driving a strong licensing cycle force in terms of more demand.
Rene We've been at pains to kind of help the audience explain how your business works. You know, the royalty side, I call it the building blocks of chip design, and then the licensing side managing the interaction between the underlying design of the chip and the software it's intended to interact with. And what you said to the street is smartphone isn't everything anymore. It's a third of our business, but somehow you're also boosting the royalties that are coming
in on that business. Just explain how that dynamic is working. Smaller proportion of overall, but you're basically making more money per deal.
We've got two things kind of going on in the smartphone market. One is we've moved to a higher version of our process, or what we call Version nine, and the royalties associated with version nine are roughly double than that of version eight, and that's growing. Last quarter, about ten percent of our royalties came from version eight. Now it's Version nine is about fifteen percent and growing. So that's happening. But secondarily, people are putting more V nine in their smartphones.
And they put V eight.
What does that mean, Well, it means more processors to handle these complex tasks to as AI. So what you have is a compounding effect. Increased rates from the new version, but more and more compute because more and more computes needed to run these complex devices.
So it's having a real growth effect for.
US, Renee, what happened in China was a surprise. How long does that continue?
For?
You know, China follows the rest of the world for US said in the sense that where we're very strong in the rest of the world visa V data centers or evs, China follows that. And the reason is that the software ecosystem, which is global that is really predominantly ARM based. China partners want to leverage that and one thing that China is very unique about is speed. They want to go as fast as possible, develop products as
quickly as possible. Well, the software base allows them to develop products very quickly to the market will the dot. So you know, there's been a lot written about China headwinds than the market, et cetera. But for US, China has been a great market.
For a Bloomberg television and radio audience for speaking to the ARM CEO Renee has overnight rene soft Bank, which holds twenty percent of your company, said that they're going to put you at the center of their AI strategy.
How much say are you going to have in that?
If SoftBank is kind of dictating how they see your role in the playout of AI infrastructure, well.
I can speak from kind of two hats. One is as the CEO of ARM and the other as a soft failing board member. I'll speak to the former primarily here. We believe that AI is the most profound opportunity in our lifetimes, and we are only at the beginning. When you think about artificial general intelligence and what is required to make that happen in terms of compute, power, efficiency, energy, those are all great areas for.
Us to be involved in focusing in.
So I think AI is not in any way, shape or form a heighth cycle.
I think we're in incredibly early.
Days, and I think it's going to have amazing impact on our planet.
I mean extraordinary.
We're still just looking at your share price now rocketing up to about sixty percent on the day, up more than seventy percent over the last five days. Are there any areas of concern for you were just talking about the macro picture, for example, being in China, that actually has played to your strengths, even though the rest of the economy we slightly worry about. China still a bright spot. What about geopolitics, what about the international role that you have as ARM.
Yeah, it's a great question, you know.
I think for CEOs, particularly now in the semi nutural world, the geopolitics, government relations, things of the nature. Five ten years ago, that wasn't something that we had to worry about a lot. Now it's obviously front and center in terms of how we think about the world. I think for ARM, I don't know that our issues are concerns there any different than my peer group faces we all
share globally. We think the world is a better place when it's an easier global ecosystem, but we're also mindful that we are in very different times than we were five ten years ago.
Rene a question from our audience on social media for you, will you start doing business directly with the software ecosystem in the context of AI edge computing.
That's what they want to know.
We do a lot of business with the software ecosystem in the sense of that they're incredibly strong partners to us. When you think about Android as a software ecosystem, when you think about Windows, when you think about everything going on with open source software, that is something we are incredibly involved in, particularly from a technology side, because at the end of the day, what makes arms so pervasive,
it's a software ecosystem like no other. So software is front and center of what we think about in terms of all of our engineering engagements.
I'm CEO Rene has stock Storing. Great to have some time with you, Thank you so.
Much, Thank you so much.
Coming up will break down Disney's earnings with Gerber Kawasaki co owned president Ros Gerbert. That's coming up next. This is Bloomberg Technology.
The purpose of the venture is purely distribution. It's not about procurement of content. So we'll continue to compete with each other for sports rights just as we always have. It'll actually, I think, be a great benefit to the league because it's no different in terms of the way we bid for sports rights. But that reduced friction benefits all of the leagues as well, So I think the leagues will actually be pretty optimistic about this.
That was Disney CFO Hugh Johnson. They're commenting on ESPN, Fox and Warner Brothers discoveries, earlier sports bundling announcement, and Disney shares pushing above a one year high today after topping earnings estimates and issuing an upbeat profit outlook for the year, citing cost cutting benefits and the strong performance of its international theme parks business. Disney Plus subscribers fell short of estimates, though, and Dizzey says it will invest
one point five billion dollars in epic games. I want to bring in Bloombers, Chris Palmery out of LA to break.
It all down.
I think we just start with what the streets probably focused on, which is Bobbyga delivers and they like it.
Yeah.
I mean, if you think about it was about a year ago where I announced these big cost cuts or restoration of the dividend. It was all under the context of the pressure from activist Nelson Pelts.
Pelts ended up dropping out the next.
Day, and here we are a year later, we seeing results of all that cost cutting.
Still a Peltz challenge.
Health says he's sticking with it, but you know, you're definitely seeing either deliver on that, and I think he's probably feeling pretty happy about the stock price today.
I mean, Chris, he's delivering on profitability, on cost cuts, but ultimately revenue. There are still worries about well, when they really do see growth once again and the subscribers coming back to Disney Plus, when we start to actually see a revenue driver coming from the parks here in the US, just internationally and indeed just the media side of the business, the TV legacy still really hurting. Where was there to be excited in some of these new partnerships, I think particularly Epic Games.
Well, for sure, there's a lot of negative here.
I mean no intendants growth in all Disney World in Florida, basically no growth in Disney Plus. In fact, they're predicting a pretty big subscriber gain in the current quarter, six million, when early.
All of that are the ones they're giving away essentially to.
Charter, although they are getting, you know, a wholesale fee. And also, as you mentioned, traditional TV double digit decline. Part of that is due to the strikes in Hollywood last year. Put again not a really good trend. The market did seem to really enjoy this Epic investment. It's a big number for a minority stay but you know, partnering with the Fortnite maker and getting Disney's it's sort of a situation where they can license their content and enjoy some upside.
Epic Company appreciates.
Always about the IP.
Chris pol Murray, great to get really a breakdown on what we heard on the earnings after the bell yesterday.
Let's get an investor take now.
Ros Gerbran pleased to say, joins us president and CEO of Gerbert Kawasaki and.
Ross, what were you most thrilled about in instead of numbers? Because there was a lot to digest.
Taylor Swift.
I mean, this is the Bob Iger effect, you know, where Nelson Peltz can't get his way around Hollywood to save his life. You know, Bob Iger is really the key to getting good content back on Disney, which ultimately, when you talk about all the things that need to drive Disney forward, it's all about great IP or great content, and that's the biggest challenge is making great content in Hollywood. So to get sort of like the Taylor's cut of this version of the movie for Disney Plus will definitely
move the needle in a huge way. You know, she's a phenomenon that's massive, So that's a great start. And then their investment in Epic games. You know, the kids played for it, you know, consistently in having an alternative universe that's all Disney characters and all the ancillary revenue that comes with all the purchases on an ongoing basis from the way gaming is done today, is not only a business Disney needs to be in, but they're smart
in that they're letting Epic do it. Disney's failed and gaming over and over again, but Epic has been a wonderful success. So these verticals, along with the way they're monetizing ESPN, is exactly what Disney needs.
To be doing.
That's a pretty good summary ross of about seven different stories that came out. Yes, I mean on the video game side, I think that's two thousand and two Kingdom Hearts, which was a JV Disney did with Square NX. I don't fully understand though, how the Epic relationship plays out. You know, there's an emphasis on licensing content. I get that is Disney saying, Okay, I think we better go back big into into video games. Light Netflix is done on the mobile app sense.
One hundred percent, so it's more than just gaming, it's social gaming, which is really you know, Roadblocks being the best example of this.
My kids don't just play games. They play games with their friends.
They do not play these games by themselves, and most of the time now they're connecting through FaceTime on their iPads and then playing Fortnite or playing Minecraft, or in a lot of cases just Roadblocks. And so this is about getting into the zychis of what kids are doing, having a social element to the gaming aspect, but also a way to extend their brands in many different ways through this open world platform.
If you've ever played Fortnite.
One of the coolest things about it is it's constantly changing the environment, the worlds, and the different characters.
And so by building.
More Disney into this, it seeds the next generation of future Disney users, which has always been one of Disney's great strengths and something that they've lost with their failure to really have any animation hits over the last several years.
Ross Bobby gets delivered on the bottom line with cost cutting, and he delivered growth through the park's business. So I go back to the question I always ask you, is Disney a technology company?
Well, Disney is what I would consider a pure entertainment company that's adopting technology in many aspects of its business, but in its pure it's about going to the theme park and living out your sort of dreams and fantasies, whether it be Star Wars or Marvel or Avatar. It's about the physical experience, but then augmenting it with the
digital experience. And that's where Disney Plus and the gaming and all the other assets that they're building that are digital are so complementary to the physical assets that Disney owns that are irreplaceable. You just really can't replace taking your kids to Disneyland in any other experience. But then when they get home being able to get onto Fortnite and play with the characters, or watch Disney Plus and watch Taylor Swift, They've got all elements of entertainment covered.
So this is a.
Great first step for Disney on their recovery, and I think if they follow through with some great ip over the next couple of years, you know Disney will be back.
Because that maybe is where they've missed, certainly in the film studios part of it, Wish for example, really not landing. I'm interested in the legacy bits of the business ABC, the TV parts that had seemingly been up for sale and then retracted a little bit. What do you see as the strategy going forward?
Ross profitability?
I mean, they've managed to keep ABC, you know, profitable, so it is creating cash for them, even though it's on a declining you know, sort of revenue base. They've managed to just cut costs and maintain that business. But we all know linear TV is dead, and the cable bundle is dead, and even Spectrum, which is a cable company, doesn't actually provide cable anymore, you know, it's a streamer now too.
So I think Disney's making.
The right moves from trying to get their content and multiple different platforms, including on Charter as well as Spectrum as well as you know this new ESPN bundle which is wonderful for sports fans. So I think getting IP in the most places possible and having high quality IP ultimately is what the entertainment business is all about.
Ross, we just have ten seconds. Do you increase your position in Disney from here?
Well?
Fortunately I did increase my position in Disney under one hundred in my fund GK over the last several months. I think Disney is worth over one hundred and twenty dollars a share, and at the Hiota's worth two hundred dollars almost So I think for investors, if you see this stock down at this level, I think it's one of the few values left in the stock market which is fairly richly priced today. So I think Disney is a compelling investment and one that we own and one that we recommend.
Right Rosco the PRESIDENCYBA Kawasaki, good to catch up.
Thank you time for talking tech.
First start, South Korean prosecutors are appealing a sole court ruling that cleared Samsung executive chairman Jayly of all charges, including stock price manipulation and accounting fraud. The prosecutors in November saw a five year prison sentence along with a fine f lee but this week the court Acquittedly and other Samsung officials. The appeal means the case will be heard now by a higher court.
Plus.
German industrial company Zemen saw orders largely stagnate in the fiscal first quarter as factory automation purchases in China plummeted by fifty five percent. The drop offsets gains in its mobility in industrial units However, the company sees China bouncing back in the second half of the year. In AI disclosures to the SEC are jumping as the agency warms
of misleading claims. Just over forty percent of S and P five hundred companies mentioned AI in their most recent annual report with the SEC, according to Bloomberg Law's review of the disclosures, That continues an upward trends in twenty eighteen, when AI was only mentioned sporadically. SEC officials have repeatedly warned companies about making misleading AI related claims, including so called AI washing, which could lead to legal action.
Tucker Carlson's interview with Russian President Vladimir Putin, Well, it's going to go live six pm Eastern Time today and it's the first interview with the Russian leader by US journalist since Russia invaded Ukraine almost two years ago.
It's an unedited interview.
It's going to air on his own website, Tucker Carlson's, but he also of course said that it will be entering in full on X an ed we want to stick on all things.
X yeah X.
The company and platform formerly known as Twitter, Elon Musk's acquisition of Twitter in twenty twenty two, was initially heralded by co founder Jack Dorsey as quote the singular solution he trusted to handle Twitter as a company. A year later, Dorsey said, quote it all went south. All that and so much more is unpacked in Battle for the Bird, a book by Bloomberg's own Kurt Wagner, who joins us now.
And what can I say?
I had the privilege of living this alongside you, and I want our global audience to relive that story through your book, summarize the tale that you hope to tell.
Yeah, you did ed.
We were in the trenches together on that one. And you know, I really think of this book as kind of two parts. You know, Part one was Twitter one point zero, the Jack Dorsey years, and there was a lot of drama there too, if you'll all remember, it wasn't necessarily smooth stealing before Elon showed up. And part two is really the Elon experiment that we've seen for
the last eighteen months or so. And what I tried to focus on was was really this handoff between these two people, right, I mean, it wasn't an accident that this deal got done. It was something that Jack Dorsey was pushing for behind the scenes, and you know, Elon was someone he admired, someone he thought was going to be a good steward for this company moving forward. And as you pointed out, you know, I think he kind of has acknowledged since it didn't go the way that.
He had hoped it would.
When you were in the reporting phase, what was the thing about Twitter's original history or the takeover by mass that surprised you the most that you thought, Wow, Yeah.
I think my favorite chapter in the book is actually a chapter about Elliott Management, the activist investor shop that came in and essentially tried to kick Dorsey out of his job. This was in early twenty twenty, right when COVID was starting to happen, and you know, it was an interesting business story at the time, but there was so much happening behind the scenes that folks didn't get to see in the moment that gets covered in the book.
And why I think it's so important is that was really the moment that Jack Dorsey realized I can't run this company anymore, even though he got to keep his job, even though from on the surface it looked like he
had sort of won. I really think that moment, you know, sent him packing, and as a result, it opened the door for Elon to come in, right, And I think Elliott sort of created a blueprint that activist investors could take over, and Elon was sort of an activist investor in his own right, just in a different form.
And Kurt, of course, Elon then tried to walk away from the deal, was unable to do.
So.
I want to go to almost the play out in the here and the now on the Bloomberg terminal today. We've got a great excerpt from your book, and really it details how in the very.
Beginning we go back to November twenty twenty two.
Ultimately Elon realizes that him being unfiltered is starting to impact advertisers. Well, certainly a sales team seemed to recognize that. And there's a great bit where you'll say one particular key sales rep that well, head of sales, really Robin Wheeler says, you don't want to go to war with advertisers, and.
Elol says, oh, I will go to war and I win wars. And he's currently at war with them.
Yeah.
I mean, this is the reason I wanted to include that. Right at the beginning of the story, is it sort of sets the stage for everything we've seen from Elon since he's taken over, Right, I mean that mindset has not changed, Right. It just fast forward a year from that when he was on stage at deal Book and
he told advertisers to go f themselves, Right. I mean, this is someone who you know, from day one essentially didn't fully understand that there's a tension and a trade off between his vision for free speech and the fact that advertisers need to kind of continue to fund this platform. And I think it's sort of telling that his mindset again that first week is still very much his mindset as far as we can tell today. And there's a reason that things haven't gotten better for their business.
And he's currently well financing others to take legal action against Disney.
I mean, the fact that this.
Intertwines with today's news and Disney's earnings is fascinating. Kurt push us forward though in the here and the now, advertisers you speak to, we just think about the super Bowl about to arrive this weekend, the focus on sports. I mean, he was running around the New York trying to persuade the NFL to stick with him, persuade big advertising agencies w to stick with him.
Where do we stand now under Linda Yacarino.
Yeah, it's not very good.
Unfortunately. You know, we talked earlier this week about sort of the shows that you know, Tucker Carlson bringing stuff a live exclusive stuff, it's not live, but exclusive stuff to X and others. And I've been talking to media buyers and it's just not moving the needle for them, right, And mostly it's because of Elon and the fact that he is so unpredictable. You know, he can say things to hundreds of millions of people instantly that most brands
would be very reluctant to be associated with. And so for them, you know, Twitter just never provided enough value for that to be worth it. And I think unfortunately X is in the same boat. They don't necessarily drive enough sales for these companies that they're willing to put up with the unpredictability of Elon Musk And as so far, there has not been a solution to that.
Jack Dawsey's learned it, the market learns it.
An extraordinary piece of writing that both both of you in the trenches, as he's say, but an amazing book coming from you, Kurt Wagner.
We thank you so much for bringing it to us today.
Meanwhile, coming up there, let's go back to the other world of Jack Drsey. He quite likes bitcoin, hey or bitcoin tops forty five thousand. As the ETF inflows show all some steadiness at the moment, suddenly the lack of outflows coming from GBTC will break it down.
Next, this is Bloomberg Technology.
Disney up twelve percent after we see profitability being delivered by bob Byger and paypalvo on the downside more than eleven percent. Look, even though they're still taking eyes on costs and stripping out workers, they are overall still seeing that volumes are not living up to where the anticipation
is and there's some worry around competition still. But for more on these markets, we want to go broader with Bloomberg's Isabelle Lee because there has been some fascinating cash being made by these overall tech firms.
The idea that dividends are being given.
Back, shared buybacks being promised, Disney of Cours being one of those.
What are you seeing more borneans too is not to get in at these valuations, so that's the thing with tech.
They're very expensive, way more expensive than those in the benchmark. But then money managers argue that they're quality companies. Yes, all of them are magnificent seven socks are expensive, maybe accept they're expensive, especially Tesla, but they're all quality. Maybe accept Tesla. And that's why a lot of money managers I talk to are careful not to be too underway tech because they don't want to lose on those gains.
But they're also very careful because the unstoppable rally and relentless rally that they we've seen last year, it remains to be seen where it will happen again.
I mean, you can only go up so much.
But then money managers have been telling me that it's kind of getting harder to beat the benchmark because the benchmark is not anymore such a good measure anymore of what the index should because it's so heavy on tech.
The waitings discussion is really important. I go back to the story we did a few weeks ago on where the net long positions were twelve months ago, and the you know, big funds just weren't as exposed to tech at being a of twenty twenty three as they would have liked to have been, they missed out, and so now fast forward to present day, they want to keep that going. But if we hit SMP five thousand sounds exciting, you know how much further can we go?
In twenty twenty four?
Five thousand is a really important psychological mark. Traders love round numbers and five thousand is a shiny new round number, and which is why we're seeing that options traders. If you look at the weekly Options Expert on Friday, it has seen a surge and open interest, and honestly it just really shows how bullish traders are and more broadly investors in Wall Street. I mean, the economy is stronger than expect, that the job market is robust. This fuels
consumer spending, which intern fuels a good economy. But then how much more can the market rise?
Right?
Like, look at the SMP yere today that's up four and a half percent, NASTAC is up five and a half percent, but the equal with SMP it's flat. In twelve months back, we have the equal weight also up by just around four percent, whereas an ASSAC is up almost forty two percent. So the rally maybe losing seam. We're seeing overbought conditions. Traders are probably getting tired. I mean you do in the end of the day kind
of take a step back. You saying to yourself, should I keep on joining the momentum or should I really look at the quality of the companies? And I think traders are being more discerning right now. I've been burned
by not taking part in the momentum. It's interesting some technical levels that we've been hitting on the cues as well, the ETFs to replicate the NASDAK one hundred tell us a little bit in the broader context whether people are saying to diversify, because we can get very focused on technology, pure and simple of the show, as we should, but diversification is key all people looking to diversify. People are looking to their diversify, but the tech rally isn't really
helping them. It's funny you mentioned that because yesterday the MSCI World Index just hit it's all time high, and you're like, great, that's going to be my diversifier.
But if you look at the top ten stocks of.
Our constituents of the MSCI World, it's Apple, Microsoft, Nvidia, metasc Alphabet. Yes, and this is a gauge that's sixty one trillion dollars with fifteen hundred stocks in twenty twenty three markets, to be exact. But they sound like the Nassback, they sound like the Magnificent seven. So how do you diversify? And I read a great note yesterday that when you underweight something, it's not your least like stock. You usually underweight the stock you like the most because you can
only have one hundred percent of everything. So it's actually a really a hard market. But then stock pickers would argue that no, actually, because we can find bargains. So it's it's a tough read. But it's really getting tougher for man and managers out there.
Bloomberg saysabel Lee gets easy. I for you us having you on the show, believe me, Thank you so much. We appreciate it. Meanwhile, risk asset a choice bitcoin topping forty five thousand for the first time in a month. Is etf inflows show signs of steadying joining us now, James Safer of Bloomberg Intelligence, and this is how we track it.
Now.
You know that any given movement in XBT is fine. But I think I'm right in saying that Through Wednesday, nine straight consecutive days of positive net inflows into the ETF products.
What does that tell you?
Yeah, I mean part a lot of it is just really you.
Can look at to GBTC, look the other we call it a newborn nine, so it's GBDC.
In the Newborn nine.
GBTC came over with billions of dollars and their outflows have slowed. They only saw eighty million out We were looking at hundreds of millions every single day coming out of GBTC. It was largely expected we had a lot of these bankruptcy estates, specifically FTX and other people that were kind of trapped in GBTC that were going to pour out, and it was remained to be seen how much of that was going to find its way back into bitcoin type exposure, whether it be the bitcoin ETFs
or not. But we've seen these other Newborn nine pick up the slack. They've they've taken in flows pretty much every single day. We have four of these ETFs that have taken in flows every nineteen days in a row since they listed, or actually four have done eighteen of nineteen days and two have done nineteen days of inflows. So to be doing that, they're basically taking in money while GBTC is losing, which is giving us that nine days of straight inflows to these bitcoin ETFs.
There were nine new US spot bitcoin ETFs, and actually there's been some analysis done over I think it's at Goldman or JP Morgan in fact, talking about the liquidity that they're seeing within amongst all the different ones just link for their space. Who's coming out on top at the moment.
James, Yeah, So, I mean GBTC came out on top because for the most part it's had the most liquidity, it's had the tightest bits spreads. It was actually trading at a discount initially, so that was a little bit of a tailwind for its performance because the discount continued
collapsing for the first few days of trading. But the last couple of days, I bit from Blackrock has actually out traded GBTC and all these other issuers, those newbern nine we just spoke about, their spreads have compressed significantly. So initially it was GBDC was the only one with really tight spreads. Then we had Fidelity in Blackrock catch up a little bit, and now we're seeing everyone else
catch up in their spreads tighten as well. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out in the weeks and months down the line. But I bet is now competing with GBTC as far as trading volume and liquidity.
Goes James increasingly the folks speaking to Bloomberger talking about the harving and they are trying to do the math on it.
How big a factor is it for you in your model?
Yeah, I mean I'm paying attention to it.
Obviously I look at it, but for the most part, I'm just looking at the hard data of what's being bought and sold, so what we're paying attention to it. So these inflows, if it really continues, which there's no guarantee it will. I would point out the DCG Gemini Genesis. There's a whole bunch of stuff going on with the Genesis bankruptcy. They have roughly sixty seven million shares as of September that we know they own, so that could
be another huge selling point for GBTC. I mean selling catalysts for GBTC, which would be selling of the underlying bitcoin. So we need to see what's going to happen there or what has happened. We don't have insight to that, so I'm more interested in that than necessarily exactly how the having is going to impact what's going on here. The other thing I would say that I'm watching is
we're talking about inflows to these spot bitcoin ETFs. In the US, we've seen outflows from bitcoin futures ETFs and bitcoin futures open interest, and we've seen outflows on a net basis in Canada and Europe in these bitcoin and crypto ETFs. So there's a little bit of there's a lot of money moving around here, and it's kind of hard to know exactly like what's what's net new inflow when you look at the entire ecosystem of bitcoin type exposure.
James Safer of Bloomberg Intelligence.
Apple's limited release of the Vision Pro headset is well forstering a resale market, pricing the device far beyond that three thousand, five hundred dollars starting price, and that's overseas prices ranging from four thousand dollars to even six thousand dollars for the price shifting on a daily basis.
Let's bring in Bloomberg's Mark German for more.
And ultimately think does Apple like this sort of occurrence, this this secondary market flavor, you know, I think.
It shows excitement for the product overseas, right.
It gives them sort of a set of data points for which markets are particularly interested in the product, so that maybe they could fine.
Tune how they're going to allocate supply when they.
Eventually go to those markets, which markets are they going to approach first.
So it's certainly a helpful data point for Apple. Does Apple like it? Not necessarily? I think it creates a lot of complexity.
The app Store and some of the features on the Vision Pro require a US Apple ID, so having these products operate overseas could create some customer service problems and perhaps.
Create a bad experience. But at the same time, it's leading to.
More sales in the US, and Apple doesn't necessarily care how they get their money for the Vision Pro as long as the units are selling. So I certainly think it's a mixed bag for Apple, but maybe a little bit more helpful than not.
Mark.
You've unboxed your own Vision Pro, You've had a few days of living with the Vision Pro, You've roamed the streets, You've been on the bus, I mean, you've been in Oh that thing right there, how tempted you to resell that thing for five thousand dollars.
I am not tempted to resell it. I'm going to hold on to this thing.
There's going to be software updates, new features, and all sorts of stuff.
I'm going to keep reviewing it, so it's important for me at least to hold on to it.
I've spoken to a few people already who are considering returning it, but the vast majority of people that I've talked to think it's magical. You'll see my full review on the product this weekend on Sunday and my power on But you know, so far, I think it's a great experience. There are certainly a slew of drawbacks. There's a ton of bugs. Like I said, it's one of
the bugear first generation Apple products. But the fundamentals and the foundation is there, and with the right software updates, with the right upgrades, with the right harbor changes, I think they have a winner on their hands.
It's just it's not winning yet. It will eventually, all right.
Bloomberg's Mark German set the reminder Sunday power on full Vision Pro review coming very nice. Let's go from VR to AI with Google bringing more of its products into the Gemini ecosystem, but renaming Bard to Gemini, I want to bring in Bloombergs Judia Love, who has been explaining how all this works. I think the story here is that they want to demonstrate that the product, that the tool is higher end, it's competitive. It is one thing what's behind the move.
Absolutely, I think they want to demonstrate that this is a product that's worth paying for. There's a lot of excitement about the potential of AI, but it's also a cost center for these companies.
Alphabet CFO Ruth Borat.
Has said that Capet will be up a lot this year, and so I think that they're really under pressure to demonstrate that there's a business model for this product. And so in addition to renaming Bard Gemini, they're also rolling out in nineteen ninety night Among the subscription plan in which you can pay for access to the latest model.
And so it really feels.
About to move this, you know, showing and showing where the money is for these products.
And basically ripping a leaf out of the open ai book on how you make a business model out of this.
Absolutely there their product is one penny cheaper than open Ai, so we'll.
See competitive I do think though, ultimately, what are the reviews like for Ultra one at the moment. How have people been interacting it, how they felt that, Look, this can be the area that stops the market share being lost to a being that's now of course wrapped into it open Ai.
Well, Noodle only released the product this morning, so users are still doing their hands on it and seeing how it stacks up to open Ai. What I'm hearing so far is that the product there appears to be parody between the models, but it's But Gemini is not necessarily blowing GBT for of the water. As Gordle was suggesting in some of its press briefings that this model had outstored Gemini and key Key methods.
Google played it a bit safe, Let's be honest, for quite a long time. Do you think they now are showing their full hand of how they commercialize.
All this R and D.
I think this is an important frown in the strategy, but more and more will still be needed. I don't feel that one nineteen ninety nine a month subscription product will be enough to really demonstrate that their years of investment have paid off.
I'm sure for many the fact that you can automatically use it within your Gmail and your Google Docs might well be a winner versus toggling between your chat, GPT or not. But Julia Love absolutely brilliant to have you on about the latest iteration and announcements coming from Alphabet in.
The chatbot wars.
Meanwhile, well look that does it for this additional BlueBag technology.
What a full edition it?
Or some CEO interviews to what's happening in terms of the investor base when it comes to Disney.
What's some winners we had on the earnings front.
Yeah, it's been a wild earning season. Recap the show on the podcast Apple, Spotify, iHeart. We're putting in podcasts on the Bloomberg platforms that will tune in on your way into work.
This is Bloomberg Technology.