From Mahard where Innovation of Money and Power Collie in Silicon Valley, NBN.
This is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline Hyde and Ed Ludlow.
I'm Caroline heard a Bloomberg's World headquarters in New York, Im Ed Ludlow in San Francisco.
This is Bloomberg Technology coming up.
Apple gets slapped with a one point eight billion euro fine by the EU. That's for abusing its dominant position the distribution of music streaming apps.
Will bring you all the details.
Plus AI's startup, Anthropic, is launching new versions of its chatbot Claude that are twice as likely to answer a question correctly. We discuss the launch with Anthropic president Daniella Amodi.
An Amazon employees catch a glimpse into the future of work with humanoid robots as they enter their houses. Will go behind the scenes to the look at agility, robotics, two legged bot, name digit all that so much more
coming up. Let's get into these markets, though, and look after fifteen records on the S and P five hundred, we just give up some of our gains and I chinlight what's happening with a nastag We're only off by a bad a tenth of percent, but notably, we are just having a little bit of caution after we digest a lot of the market run up that we've seen most broadly in AI stocks, in particular Gone Dragon index.
I want to chinelight what's happening on Chinese stocks, Like the NBC is upon us, We're still not perhaps going to get the articulation of grand focus on growth and stimulation coming from China, and indeed, where is the press conference from the premiere That's not going to be happening this time. Some anxiety around Chinese stocks and we see that reflected in the US training of those names.
I'm looking at the tenure yield just up three basis points.
We look ahead to the jobs data that we get later in the week a little bit more fed speak, so all eyes on where we go in terms of the data. But we see bonds just training a little bit lower. What is not training lower, what continues to outperform, and of course thin liquidity on the weekend, and just to continue into a drive up today on Monday, trading five point seven percent.
Higher in good old pitcoin.
We are getting ever closer to that all important record level that we had a sixty nine thousand. We're currently at sixty six spot or to one, so keep an eye on that particular discusset ed what have you've gone on the micro Well.
Another name that's pushing higher is in video. This is in Videa's market cap two point one three trillion dollars, the milestone that it reached Friday's close and into Mondays. It's now the world's third most valuable company by market cap on a dollar basis, jumping above Saudi Aramco. Will continue to track that. Maybe we can discuss it a little later.
On the show.
One other megacap the number two company in the world, Apple is moving to the downside. The stock down two point seven percent. That represents a drop of around eighty billion dollars in market cap in this session alone. At one point, the stockdown more than three percent, which would be a one hundred billion dollar market cap drop. This is not only the first EU anti trust fine that
has been directed towards Apple. I think it's significantly bigger than we thought it was going to be one point eight billion euros two billion dollars, and it's all about market abuse in a music streaming context that Apple plans to appeal. They're going to push back on this, and I think we brace ourselves, Caro, for a lot of litigation to come.
And of course we know who delivers those fines. Who continues to focus on big tech is the EU Competition chief Margaret Vesta.
Let's just hear what she had to say about it.
Today, the Commission has fined Apple one point eight four billion euros for abusing its dominant position on the market for the distribution of music streaming apps.
Let's get over to Brussels where that news comes from. Lumberg's Oliver Krook is with us and Olie. What's interesting is, yes, the money, but when you're looking at Apple in terms of one hundreds of billions of god in cash, the money doesn't always matter. It's a precedent and it's also what changes in behavior that the EU is demanding.
Right absolutely, I mean this is a much larger fine as ed was outlining that we had anticipated. I mean the reporting on this was five hundred million euros was expected. This is almost four times that, right, So there is a sort of a bit of a shock there, and it's all about abuse on the iOS, on the app, on what sort of apps and what kind of competition Apple was allowing to have from other people, And the EUS said, come out and said it plainly, how Apple
acted was illegal. They've been doing it for ten years and they need to remedy this immediately. There is some doubt perhaps that this will be enough money to change behavior. However, again it's coming in quite above what everybody had anticipated, and Apple saying that they're going to appeal it that the regulators haven't proven because this is a market that has still grown. But Veslayer herself was saying that something like twenty percent of consumers who might have adopted Spotify
did not get the chance to even see it. So this is really what's going to the crosshairs into a week where there's a major piece of legislation on tech regalization coming out of Brussels.
We just showed Apple's response to the fine and the announcement. They gave a kind of pointed quote saying that in the context of competition, they feel that today's decision protects one clear European company which is a market leader in music streaming. They didn't name them, but they're talking about Spotify. What is what is the debate here Oliver. You have the EU saying one thing and Apple basically saying the opposite.
Yeah, well, Apple's saying, how can you say we've had such an effect on this when Spotify has done amazingly well, has done a huge amount of growth and has not you know, has not really suffered by according to them. Of course, Spotify does not see things quite the same way. And Margaret Vesselayers had mentioned this in the press conference that she held earlier today, is saying that basically, you don't know how much more growth was available here potentially
to Europe. So listen, you're going to hear this from Apple, You're going to hear this from from the United States, but here in Europe. I mean, they really want to stake their claim on being the regulators. And it comes again the Digital Markets Act, which will come into force on Thursday.
Think about it.
We're talking about one company, the app store and dealing with music streaming. Starting this Thursday, you have major tech companies that are going to be the touched by regulation that is trying to deal with all of this kind of competition in a major way. And that's not just in the app Store, and it's not just with these sort of apps. It is all encompassing these and they really want to set a strong message that you need to comply and that they are serious and that they
are here for business. I mean, listen, when you look at this actual this actual fine one point eight four billion, right, they broke this down. When you look at the arithmetic, it's quite interesting. One point eight four billion. One point eight of that is a lump sum that was put on top specifically because it was Apple and why because it correlates to their annual revenue zero point five percent. So this is the EU saying that they're here and they're here for business.
All right.
Bloomberg's Oliver Kirkout and Brussels across one of the top stories, and tune in tomorrow when Oliver will sit down for an interview with EU Executive Vice President Margreta Vesta. Coming up on this program, we're going to talk about reddits IPO, artificial intelligence, this collapse of Silicon Valley Bank, a big, big and broad conversation coming up with Citizens Financial Group chair and CEO Bruce ben Sorn. Caroline, I see some breaking news in the airlines.
Yeah, KiB an eye on Boeing in particular. This is a big breakthrough for them. American Airlines is indeed going to be agreeing to buy two hundred and sixty new short haul aircraft from Boeing, includes well eighty five Boeing seven three seven Max tens.
That's a key endorsement. Therefore for the Plaine makecraft.
Well, we know January's near catastrophic incident on the airborne Alaska Airlines flight currently up two point three percent on American Airlines. Boeing still off by some three tenths of a percent, So eighty five we're going to be seeing Boeing Max ten aircraft and eighty five A three twenty neo planes some air bus so look actually they're still a ninety embry SAA E one hundred and seventy five
regional jets too. So American Airlines is spreading the love, but it is giving a eighty five endorsement.
To Boeing Max ten aircraft.
There's a broombt tech energy cash flow management.
It's not always the sexiest.
But it's important and actually AI has a role in terms of the sol here. JP Morgan's cashflow management tool that runs on artificial intelligence helped some of its corporate customers get their slash manual work, but almost ninety percent since launching about a year ago, JP Morgan's wholesale payments unit now has about twenty five hundred clients using the product.
And this follows other key banks, other lenders that have been stepping up their use of artificial intelligence with the aim of guess what, lifting productivity, reducing cost.
Said. One of those banks is Citizens. Let's talk more about that with Bruce Van Sawn, chair and CEO Citizens Financial Group, who's in town for the Citizens JMP Tech conference that kicks off today in San Francisco. So, JP Morgan has this idea that they wanted to add a billion dollars of value and then the upgraded it to one point five billion this year because of the work they're doing in AI. Do you have a similar goal in house that you're working on.
Well, maybe there's a less one less zero on some of these numbers us versus them size wise, but clearly that we have a similar product called cash Flow Essentials, which helps small business forecasts through cash flows, and we're rolling that out this year and we have great expectations for it.
You come to town three years after to basically getting your tech vertical set up through JMP. Is there one clear ambition you have for this week that you think you know in the conversations you'll have, and I know these kinds of events, there's a bit of deal making that goes on in the corridors as well.
Absolutely.
So.
We have well over one hundred companies presenting, both private companies and public companies. We have several hundred investors attending. So there's a lot of buzz about this conference, and I think it's staged at a very good time where
the markets are starting to look more promising. We're seeing some green shoots around IPOs, which is terrific, and I think just looking at the US economy and how tech is powering all industries and how AI has huge potential going forward, it's a really good time to have people get together and exchange their thoughts on that.
Let's jump in on the IPO situation then read it is an important one for you. It's one that we're talking a lot about on the show at the moment. Just explain how that came about.
Well, I think we had a long relationship with them, and so we're going to be one of the co managers on the transaction and so they haven't filed yet, but I think there's a huge amount of interest. It's a great company.
Let's talk about whether or not that then spurs more green shoots. As you said, you can't have just one deal for green shoots in plural.
Are we likely to see.
A reopening because at the end of twenty twenty three, look, I'm now really outperforming where it originally listed at. But instacart queries over that one clave Yeo has done well. But we all thought this was the reopening and then it shut again.
Yeah, it's been required some patients the last couple of years. So when we acquired JMP, it was the fourth quarter of twenty one, and the markets were red hot at that point, and so as rates went up and the economy wobbled a little bit, I think that basically cut the interest a little bit in IPOs. But again, I think this year is the year when we're going to see a breakthrough.
Do the breakthroughs have to talk up artificial intelligence, the data that can be leaned on, for example, within Reddit, the areas of expertise that they're in different adjacent industry groups.
I think it can be broad I think AI is certainly top of mind for the market, but there's plenty of great companies around security, different technology services that I think also it's going to see a lot of growth. So that's what the market ultimately focuses on, is what's the growth trajectory, And so I think that extends beyond just.
AI, and let's talk about your growth trajectory with citizens Financial and ultimately how the market is supporting other regional lenders and banks such as yourself, because it is but a year almost ago that we were in the CrOx of the anxiety when it came to regional lenders here in the United States, the explosion of Silicon Valley Bank
and ultimately some of the other spillover effects. Yourself managed to whether that storm had different business models in place, but your share price is still under pressure, and there's still anxiety around commercial real estate, for example, which we see front and center with New York Community Bank Corp. How are you seeing love green shoots appreciation of your business at the moment.
Yeah, So I think last year was a challenging year for sure, with the idiosyncratic bank failures. Things have stabilized since then. Certainly, the deposit position is very strong. We have a very strong capital position. So last year we've spent a lot of time focused on defense and making sure our balance sheet was solid, put away plenty of reserves for areas real estate, which we think those losses
will be manageable for us. But you know, we always talk about you can't just win playing defense, you got to play offense as well. So we have some great initiatives. We have the Citizens Private Bank, where we lifted out a bunch of folks from JP Morgan. We're committed to this region here in northern California. We have JMP and now we came in over the top with the Private bank,
world class best in breed bankers. So we're connected to the whole innovation economy, the VC world, the PE world, all the folks who are creating lots of wealth here. So excited by that. We also have a big effort going on in New York, where we had acquired two bank franchises a couple of years back, and we're making great inroads in that New York market. And then I would say the third thing that we're high on is just our ability to serve private capital around the country.
So we built out M and a capability sponsored coverage capability, and so we're really anticipating when private capital really kicks in. I think you'll start to see more deal flow in Pe. Certainly our pipelines are looking very strong for the year.
The lesson that I learned out of what happened a year ago Silicon Valley Bank is how concentrated the access to working capital was for technology companies SMEs. Essentially, what was your big takeaway? What was the one lesson or permanent change of the last twelve months resulting from that saga?
Well, I think people were a bit envious about how Silicon Valley Bank had locked in a lot of that customer base, and First Republic also, So now the demise of both of those banks creates a real opportunity for folks. There's avoid there and so it's all about talent and it's about commitment. It's about strength of offerings and capabilities. And so we're marching right in to help fill that void.
And you'll be hearing from some of those businesses, those sectors you're shining a light on at your event this week. We thank you so much. Please, friends on Chair, CEO, Citizens, Financial or group, let's just return to look at the Elon Musk lawsuit against open ai filed last week and as the company violated its founding mission, putting profit ahead of benefiting humanity, VC community weighing in and treeson and of course for Kostla that we saw over the weekend.
But let's get a legal perspective for you.
Christina Garnia is with US technology lawyer over at Jeffer Mangels, Butler and Mitchell, whose practice focuses on technology transactions, on intellectual property and a whole raft of areas that have
caught the technology sphere and its focus. But Christina, is this some sort of distraction, as a coastal would say at the moment, these sorts of lebal implications of open ai, or will they force some sort of transparency as to whether or not artificial intelligence should be being grown in a closed environment or indeed an open one.
So I think the complaint is really interesting because it really is setting out this framing of you know, open ai was open source and it was nonprofit, and so you know that was sort of this thing that helped it to grow and to thrive, and you know, this is not happening in a vacuum. There's a lot of history between the parties, but this is really about you know, open source and nonprofit and you see across the technology space over the years, a lot of very interesting technologies
came from the nonprofit space and remained open source. And the value of that has been that if there are issues with the technology and there's things that need to be fixed, you have researchers, academics and technologists who have access to it. And so you know, this idea that now it is for profit, commercialized and sort of deviated from the original mission of what open ai was supposed to be, you know, present some really interesting issues and
you know, again, this isn't happening in a vacuum. So you know, there are regulators across the globe who are looking at AI technologies right now. So this, you know, the themes of this lawsuit sort of feed into that
concern about the stewardship of the technology. So one of the interesting things and the complaint is that you know, the board itself of open ai started out as this depth of knowledge of AI technologies, and one of the allegations in the complaint is that the new board doesn't have that depth of knowledge, and so there's this larger stewardship question. I think that you know, the general consumer public AI is still very new, right, many people chat EBT is there, you know.
Touch stown now with h le le let's just hit let's just hit the brakes a second. That you are an experience, experienced technology lawyer. But for loads of people, I don't think anyone really understands that the root of MUSK is the plaintiff's complaint here. So he's saying it started as a nonprofit for the betterment of humanity, and now he's saying that's not the case. But what legal grounds does MUSK have, if any, to make that complaint and what is it that he's trying to change.
So he's bringing a breach of contract claim. That's that's basically the basis of the lawsuit. You know, I don't know what grounds there necessarily are. The complaint is really around this framing that the articles of incorporation as well as communications over the years form the basis of a founding agreement and that there's been a violation of that agreement.
But you know, this was just filed last Thursday. I think there are some issues as to whether or not there're standing in the case, and so that'll be something that we remain to be seen as a case progresses. The other thing that you know, this case could also be this lawsuit filing could be is a device to
get information. Again, the parties have a long history, and if the case were to move forward and survive in motion to dismissed for example, you know, discovery could you know, give the parties access to information they normally wouldn't have. So I think it remains to be seen if this suit really is a betterment of humanity, open source lawsuit for the good of AI and for the stewardship of AI, or whether or not, you know, this was a device to get information.
So you know, we'll see what happens over the next couple of weeks.
Yeah, have we ever seen have you ever acted on legal arguments that take issue with the fact that ultimately a company completely pivoted and whether or not it's a pivot of business model application or whether it's that you were not for profit and then you became for profit.
Have we got any precedents so that sort of thing, There's.
Not a lot of precedence in the space. You know, many technologies that start as nonprofit do remain so. But I think part of this is transparency. I think that you know, throughout the complaint there's reference to just the transparency in the process, the transparency and the transition between this nonprofit, open source model and what we're finding today.
So a lot of this comes back to things that you know, have been well tread ground over the last you know, year or so in terms of just the transparency and open AI and the communications coming out of the company. But again, I think that you know, this does bring up some really interesting and timely themes around stewardship of AI generally.
Christina Ganne, partner at Jeffer Mangles Butler Mature, We're really grateful for you expertise and we will continue to track that case and suit. Let's get back to Reddit's IPO. The company is seeking a six point five billion dollar valuation, that's according to Bloomberg sources, and we're bring boombogs Katie Ruth on the deal's team. We're kind of jumping around a bit here, right the last private round ten billion, then the reporting was the IPO might target five billion.
We're kind of up to six point five billion. What else do we know, sure.
And so you know this happens because it can be hard to guess exactly where the market is going to be when Reddit debuts, likely later this month.
But yeah, so they were valued about.
Ten billion in twenty twenty one, but that was also the peak of the tech private tech market, and so you know, many companies are expecting that they will be valued less when they go public. Yes, we had heard, you know, early talks had them valued around five billion, but it's now looking like ahead of the road show, bankers think they can get six point five billion for it.
But sometimes these things, you know, raise or even lower during the road show, depending on how demand looks from the institutional investors.
And it is it institutional investors that are going to be the mainstay for a name, right Reddit, A lot of this is going to be trading on well, the exuberants from retail too.
I mean, it's a key retail name in so many ways.
Sure, I'm sure Reddit would love to have both kinds of investors, but you know, bankers really target these large institutional investors to try to hold the stock because they need large anchors that they can trust, will you know, keep the stock for a while. So during this road show, they're going to market reddit to these investors, try to get a sense of how much demand is there and then set the price accordingly.
We keep an eye on all those discussions on price points, Katie Roof. We thank you for keeping ourselves feed on it.
Welcome back to Bloomberg Technology, Ed Ludlow here in San Francisco.
And Parentline had in New York. Let's get you a check on these markets. Because little bit of give in the overall perspective of Dastak and the S and P five hundred, we'd had what fifteen record highs the S and P five hundred. We're just taking a little bit of money off with a little bit of calmness ahead of the jobs data later this week, and of course we continue to build the narrative coming from the federals of now's like one hundred off by two.
Tens of percent.
Let's call it SMP five hundred down about ten per percent. As I say, fifteen record highs had been hit. I'm looking at bitcoin. Note no give up there in that particular run up in the asset type, we're up five point seven percent, sixty six thousand dollars handle. We continue to push towards that all time high of sixty nine thousand hit all the way back in November twenty twenty one.
Move on and have a look at some of the individual movers that we're keeping a niner eye on, because Apple is down two point seven percent that this is a big hit of course to the overall benchmarks.
Just still one of the Magnificent seven.
And we have seen Apple giving away significant amount of market value since not that really the start of the year. We're questioning, of course, some of the sales that are going on at the moment, and of course we continue to see some of the overall downward trajectory of Apple and how it's really split apart from the SMP five hundred and some of the weakness that we see from China. Let's look at the weakness that we see from China when it comes.
To Tesra as well. That's been some of the narrative today.
We're off by six percent, one of the key movers in terms of points on the NASAC overall, as we think about the supply chain over there and indeed demand, I'm looking at what's happening though on some that higher side.
This is a company that is.
Finally, because of its rampant growth, the AI Bullishness has been entered into the s and P five hundred index mark twenty four percent on the day. We know it is a hugely volatile name, but keeping an eye on the super microcomputer, ED, what have you got.
Let's talk a little bit more about Aianthropic today, debuting three new AI models from its Clawed three model family, Haiku, Sonnet, and opus Or, offering increasingly powerful performance allowing users to select the optimal balance of intelligence, speed and cost for their specific application. I'm delighted to say that, Dennie Lamday, president and co founder of om Fropic, here on set in San Francisco, you're saying these models are twice as likely to answer a question correctly?
What do we mean by that?
So, first of all, Ed, thank you so much for having me on the program today. We are very excited to be announcing this new model family of Claude three.
And really, when you say you.
Know, twice as likely to answer you know correctly what that means is how high or how likely is it that.
One of these models was sort of make something up?
And so in addition to making these kind of intelligence advances really across all three models. We've also been working on many of the common challenges that businesses and in particular enterprises face when integrating generative AI into their businesses and workflow.
One computer scientist reached out to me and said, oh, I've never used Claude, but I'm impressed by the testing scores, but also impressed by the fact that it's available straight away. And I also note that Amazon Aws came out very quick to say go to Bedrock, you can use it right now. Bedrock's been a real success for you guys in commercial commercializing the underlying models. Just explain the rollout and how you're able to do this immediately.
So what's being offered today? So you mentioned those those three models in the family. So Claude three Opus is really our most powerful state of the art model. Claud three Sonnet is that middle model that is still incredibly capable and quite price competitive, particularly for its intelligence class, and very fast. And then Claude three Haiku is the kind of fastest model really really great for sort of you know, any type of US case that requires a
quick response. And so today what's available in our API is Claude Opus and Claude Sonnet. So the bigger two models Claude three Hiku will be rolled out in the coming weeks, and then on AWS Bedrock you can access cloud son it that middle model today and also on GCP Vertex in private preview you can also access clouds on it. And I'd be remiss to not mention claud Ai our consumer consumer product, you can access clouds on it for free and claud Opis is available for our pro users as well.
But Daniel, what's been interesting about the focus that you've had at Anthropic is on the commercial use, is on the business case use, and I'm interested it isn't Opus is relatively expensive compared to some of the competitors out there.
What is what your client base drawn to.
Is it still the focus on safety, which was first and foremost, or what else are you winning them on over the competition.
So, really, the kind of reasoning behind why we did this model family was we wanted to give, you know, enterprise businesses as much choice as possible to really be able to toggle between what is the most important kind of element for their business or even in particular for their use cases. We anticipate some of our customers may use you know, multiple models just for different applications. So you know, Claude three Opus is really a great choice if you're if you need the kind of most powerful
state of the art model for very complex reasoning. And I also, you know, should say so much of our enterprise kind of strategy has been around building these models and making them increasingly more intelligent and fast, but really also ensuring that throughout we are prioritizing reliability and trustworthiness. So many of the businesses that we build on that build on Claude, you know, really require a deep amount of trust with the customers that they're ultimately building for.
And that's really been kind of a guiding factor for us as we have been training these models for our customers.
And that goes straight to the heart of some of the difficulties that have consumed your competitors and just general adoption of AI within the landscape from a regulative perspective and a consuming use point, I think of, yeah, the image generation part of the equation right now, we all look to what's happening with Gemini and the fact that they try to alleviate the bias issues and in so doing ended up with ahistorical images talk us through some of the ways in which you get over the hurdles
of trying to put safety first, of trying to put bias first, but trying to get these ultimately incredibly powerful models into people's hands quickly.
So one of the things that we have always really focused on from day one is this question around safety and trustworthiness and reliability. And while it's the case that you know, no model available on the market today is perfect, Andthropic has always really aimed to be the industry leader
when it comes to safety. We use a technique called constitutional AI which helps to provide all of our models, including the Claude three model family, with this sort of constitution for how to approach you know, challenging question right, introducing a sort of layer of nuance into how the models might respond to two difficult prompts.
Daniel, you and many of your co founders. An Anthropic previously worked at open AI. Elon Musk has sued open AI and is saying, basically, they're breaching their original contracts because they are no longer a not for profit and they are not following that original mission of benefiting humanity through their work.
Your reaction to.
That, given your history open Ey, but also the work you're doing now at Enthropic, which has a similar not for profit set up.
So something that we've always aimed to do as a public benefit corporation at Anthropic is really balance the kind of incredible potential power of these technologies well still ensuring that what we're developing is reliable and safe and really our kind of founding vision, right our founding mission for the company was, let's work to really raise the water mark in the industry of AI and ensure that whenever we put a model on the market, Anthropic wants to
feel very confident that it is as safe as it can be. And I think what has been so exciting I think about this model release is really raising that watermark not just on safety, but also on intelligence and capability simultaneously. And I think that guiding light has always been an incredibly sort of important founding principle for us.
Caroline mentioned it, and you and I have talked about it, that you're pursuing a focus on enterprise customers, you know, SaaS cloud companies, but you still have this public benefit corp center. Just explain how you manage both of those goals.
So something that I think is really interesting that we've seen with you know, so many of the enterprise businesses that are really you know, building on top of Claude, is that this approach to building systems that are safe and kind of built on trust and are secure and are reliable is actually a huge draw for them.
Right.
So many of the Fortune five hundred are driven really by trust with their with their consumers, right, And so I think something we take incredibly seriously is this belief that when we are helping to empower businesses to build on Claude, that what we're putting in front of them is safe. And I think that's perfectly in line with our public benefit mission.
Are you ultimately improving people's lives?
Do you still feel, Daniella, you as a company.
As an industry More broadly, so, something we've been really kind of excited and inspired to see are just the incredible potential and kind of use cases that our customers are using while interacting with Claude. So this ranges from things like you know, financial services businesses like you know, Bridgewater and SAP sk Telecom really just transforming how they
work and how they interact with their end customers. But you know, most recently, I think I've been incredibly excited to see so many you know, education, health care and nonprofit businesses as well, really start to take on kind of the mantle of generative AI. We've been very excited that that groups like you know, the Dana Farber Cancer Institute are building on.
Clouds, so too is a Saana Airtable, Bridgewater some really notable names in the finance space and in productivity space.
And I'm interested that at the.
Time that clearly from an enterprise perspective, everyone's rushing to get in, and clearly productivity can go up and to the right to significant amount.
But we do question perhaps some.
Worries around jobs, but we also question ultimately open AI versus closed AI, and we go back a little.
Bit to the drama that's some folding between Elon Musk and open AI. And I know you must be.
Relatively exhausted by that, but I look at what's beenod Coastal, for example, has been tweeting about.
Saying that ultimately Sam Greg and the team over an open AI have been.
Pushing out faster, better products and they need to be in a more closed space. Open AI and ultimately artificial intelligence innovation shouldn't be done permanently in some sort of open tesque way and means of doing it.
Do you agree? What is your ethos on open versus closed, Daniana?
I think really bottom line is that there's so much space in the kind of generative AI industry right there are many different types of models that are being rolled
out across really a variety of different services. And my sense is that as businesses, you know, really are becoming quite sophisticated with how they integrate these generative AI technologies, I expect that what we'll see is really a kind of multimodel approach that many businesses might choose to rely on one type of model for certain use cases and
other types of models for others. So I feel there's really quite a lot of sort of space and territory for all of these different players to kind of operate in.
The space, and your space and your territory being guarded by the fact you've got these three new models open today. We thank you so much for talking us through some of the innovations that you're bringing in Anthropic. Taniana m Oday, just president and co founder of Anthropic. At what we've got coming.
Up, we'll get back to bitcoin and bitcoin's rally up next, and whether concerns of a plunge following a surge might be justified still marks. Alice Clean joins us on the program We'll be right back Suspoonberg technology as time for talking tech first up. Cyber attackers backed by North Korea are said to have infiltrated to South Korean semiconductor equipment firms late last year. That's according to South Korea's sole
spy agency. The agency is advising companies to take precautions after detecting attacks in December and February in which hackers sole products and manufacturing blueprints and shares of Sea are giving up gains after the company reported a smaller than expected drop in earning, Southeast Asia's largest internet firm, rallied
as much as nineteen percent in pre market trading. The company says it sees improving prospects for its e commerce gaming business, alleviating some concerns have slowed down in its online retail arm Shoppy plus SpaceX and NASA saw a successful launch of Russian and American astronauts headed to the International Space Station, where the four person crews expected to
spend six months. The mission DUBS Crew eight marks the thirteenth assignment four SpaceX carrying a live crew and the eighth operation for NASA with a commercial crew to the ISS Caroline.
All other things maybe going to the moon in certain spaces. Let's talk about it with the VC spotlight moment. Get back to bitcoin and discuss the run that we've seen across crypto more broadly. Can we, of course be questioning some of the parabolic run that we've had, Is it
valid and is their leverage behind it too? Please to welcome a long term player in the space still Mark founder and managing partner Alise Colleen, who really has been thinking about the ways in which to scale and to make more efficient the space of bitcoin and.
Layer twos within that.
But at least more broadly, when you're looking at the run up price point, you must be exhausted by the fact that everyone looks at this basically as sort of an asset to be well betting on and exchanging hands.
But does it make sense to you? Are you worried about any leverage, any volatility?
So the price appreciation of course is going to draw attention. What we're seeing now is an expansion of Bitcoin's user base through the introduction of a spot ETF and a directly regulated way for new entrants to hold bitcoin assets. I believe that this gives first time access to mantay, especially to the Boomer generation. It's ahead of the ETF launching, we could have projected between eighty million and one hundred and thirty million bitcoin holders.
We have to.
Acknowledge that most of those were Gen Z or millennials, and so with the.
Spot ETF, we see a new.
Population onboarding to bitcoin, and Bitcoin's price has always been driven by adoption and expansion use case.
I really appreciate focusing on the structural, long term elements that are happening here, but I want to just go a little short term real quick. I always find it so interesting about the twenty four to seven trading patterns of crypto right and when we left the show Friday, we were talking about similar themes. But there's a lot of liquidity, a lot of trading that goes on over
the weekend, some of that in the Asia session. I just wonder if you look at that and see any concentration of activity by geography, if it's happening in North America or it's happening in different parts.
Of the world. So bitcoin is of course a twenty four to seven market. The introduction of the ETF has allowed a bit of a break to the attention that's needed to be paid to weekends and after hours, and that much of the movement in bitcoin has been generated by excitement and flows in the ETF products. Now all that set, of course, our attention is more on the long term bitcoin trends, including price trends, and well, we could expect to see some periods of consolidation along the way.
I expect we end the year significantly higher than we're at now.
Going back to the underlying innovation that therefore now gets us from not only seeing bitcoin as an asset class that has far more in demand and across different stereotypes of people, but I'm also interested in what therefore is made of the asset itself. Much of the issue is ultimately it's the gold because well, we're not going to do much more in terms of actual use cases and smart contracts because it was expensive and difficult to scale.
But you're solving that problem with some of the companies you invest in. What are the ETF, for example, brought to bear in terms of innovation.
So this is really interesting. We work with founders that are attempting to solve the problem of both pathways for adoption as well expansion of Bitcoin use cases.
Much of that is happening with Bitcoin the.
Aset on on Bitcoin's core protocol, but we're also seeing a flourishment of development and developer activity even in Bitcoin layer twos. It's notable that the twenty four month growth of Lightning Network, for example, which is Bitcoin's primary payment technology, was over twelve hundred percent between the period of twenty twenty one and twenty twenty three, giving us a sort of base of monthly transaction volume of over seven million transactions.
Now there's tail ones to adoption for Lightning Network by the introduction of new Lightning Network related protocols by Stillmark portfolio company Lightning Labs, And by that I mean that we expect to see the migration of stable coins from an alt coin environment a theorem or tron to Bitcoin via Lightning protocol techrid assets, which will allow other digital assets to trade on Lightning Network in a more efficient
and economical way. And on top of that, Lightning Network offers the benefit of being more scalable in terms of transactions transaction throughput, because you can expand transaction volume without needing to commit those transactions back to a base blockchain and.
Take up block space.
We're also seeing the introduction of protocols that enable bitcoin to be used as a suitable payment for the AI space and for payments for API calls. And what that means is that we can start to really use bitcoin to unlock some of the native value of the Web and Internet broadly.
All right, still not founder managing partner at least, Colleen A is bitcoin trade sixty six, five hundred US dollars persoken.
Nooyees over an Amazon warehouse in Seattle recently got a glimpse of a future of work, and it's.
Very sci fi.
A five foot nine robot that looks like a human, walks like a bird and has glowing white eyes. Let's bring in Bloomberg's Matt Day, who got to meet digit or the digits And at the moment they're doing pretty menial tasks ferrying boxes empty ones backwards and forwards. But I mean, are we at the cusp of some breakthrough? What got us here? Why does it feel so sci fi?
Yeah? It really feels like we are I think a lot of it is just sort of the consumer electronics revolution. Broadly speaking, motors are cheaper and little actuators that make these guys move and able to bend and flex. Battery technology has gotten a lot better, and then recently you layer AI on the top of it. Right, these robots don't really make a lot of sense if you have
to have somebody piloting the controls. But if you can do it sort of systematically and have them kind of reason their way through the world, then maybe this all starts to work.
There's a lot happening in robotics right. Think about Figure AI, think about what Tesla is doing with optimists. But it's not sort of real well deployment. What is Amazon's plan to make this commonplace?
So Amazon hasn't told us a whole lot about their roommap, but what we know now is that they are testing these robots, you know, like you said, to move tots in their warehouses. There are a lot of spots on Amazon's facilities, which are already highly automated, that still require you know, flesh and blood, somebody picking up boxes, moving boxes to a conveyor belt from a palette. That work
is pretty dangerous. A lot of people don't want to do that work anyway because of relatively relatively low pay and and kind of hard pace of work issues, so they're pitching or at least a Jillie Robotics is that they might have a solution to this in the form of digit their little white eyed robot.
Go read your piece in BusinessWeek, Go and see the pictures.
It looks like they're doing push ups in one particular piece, but apparently they're hibernating that daily.
Thank you that does it for this edition in Blueboo Technology.
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