Airbnb and Uber Earnings, Nancy Pelosi's Taiwan Visit (Podcast)

We will get into the details, plus a being for Uber send share story almost my conversation with CEO dar Kasra Shai about the shift in demand supply and whether Uber really is as he says, recession proof. And the results are in Bloomberg survey more than fift hundred investors about the musk Twitter saga, only one in four. I believe the world which is man will actually end up shelling out that four billion dollars. We'll talk about the implications for musk Twitter and Tesla. I do want to

talk a little more about this big visit. US House speaker Nancy Pelosi touching down in Taiwan. This makes her the highest ranking American politician to visit the island in twenty five years, and the timing of her visit is particularly sensitive for China, coming one day after the anniversary of the People's Liberation Army. I want to bring in our Ian Marlow joining us from Washington, who's been covering

the story and how it is developing. Ian talk to us about just how significant this visit is and and what is at stake. We've got Isaac stone Fish, the founder and CEO of Strategy Risks here as well. But Ian, I want to start with you because I think it's hard to overstate, uh, just how significant this visit is. Yeah, I think it's significant for a couple of reasons. I mean, obviously, she's the highest ranking of like the U s official to visit in twenty five years, since Sitting House Speaker

New Grinkoch went in ninete. But it's also a sensitive time in US China relations. You've got forces on both sides. In the US, you've got midterm elections, you had a lot of uh debate about whether she should go or not go, and whether that would look weak on China. And then in China itself you have Shi jimping kind of balancing UH COVID zero policies with a bit of a slowing economy, and also a really important party congress coming up later in the fall where he's expected to

secure a third term. So you've got a lot of sensitive dynamics internally. And then uh, you know, internationally, we just have a situation with the US leaning on on China over Russia and the war in Ukraine. You've got a lot of high level dialogues that haven't particularly moved the needle on the Biden administration's China policy. Uh. And then you're playing with this extremely toxic situation with where Taiwan is just the most sensitive issue in US China relations.

Uh and Pelosi visiting at this point, with the rhetoric cranked up on on the Chinese side in particular in US US officials kind of failing to calm down and kind of convince the Chinese side that that they're not trying to, you know, erase the status quo here, it's kind of got a bit of a mix where we're now seeing some of the more the most extreme sort of Chinese military responses since since the mid nineties, in decades now. ISAAC China has already announced these various military

drills at missile tests surrounding the island. How much retaliation versus posturing are you expecting to see companies should shear retaliation asymmetrically, So worry less about military drills, more about executive from US corporations getting arrested or detained or harassed in China, or Chinese companies treating US companies differently, or Beijing suddenly discovering that a major US corporation committed tax

fraud or has some regularities in their books. Beijing loves to play it this way so that there's plausible deniability, and so that it reminds the business world that, in Beijing's mind, the business world is also responsible for what the US government is or isn't doing. We've already seen some retaliation from this big battery company that's pushed back its plans to announce a big plant UH in North America. Of course, Taiwan is a huge tech hub, a huge

spoke in the global supply chain. What kind of disruption potentially longer term, ISAAC, do you think there could be to the global and tech economy. It's hard to imagine a more concrete reminder that investing in China Chinese supply chain U S China relations will be unstable for the foreseeable future. Base case and now is these regular fluctuations, the regular risk of not getting the goods when you need them, not being able to parse or really understand

Chinese policy. So people just need to throw out their old assumptions and work with the assumptions that supply chains will continue to be disrupted. Certain companies that say they're going to do something won't be able to do what they're saying. And not to be alarmists, but it is very possible that moves like these do lead to a war, or at the very least the proxy war between the U S and China, and if that happens, all of the assumptions underpinning US China investments for decades will be

written off. I talk to us about the plans for the rest of this trip and the kind of signaling you're expecting to see, not just from Beijing but also from the White House. Yeah, I mean, I think we've seen the White House playbook. Over the last couple of days. There was a shift for um, uh you know, denying that the trip was even happening, possibly the worst kept secret given it was the most tracked plane. Uh you know,

almost in history here. Um. I think at the moment, we're looking at the White House shifting to uh, putting the onus for escalation on on China itself, saying Pelosi's trip, which we didn't have any say over, doesn't move the needle. It doesn't change US policy towards Taiwan either way. And so it's the kind of ball is in is in China's court. So the the amount of escalation we see, uh,

you know. And some people are talking about the military exercises off off the ports and off the coast amounting to a sort of an effective sort of temporary blockade. We're also going to see missiles potentially crossing over Taiwan and landing off the coast. Um, so there's a potential for miscalculation. I think at the moment we're just kind of waiting to see how long this last. We know there's going to be drills, uh you know, for the

next few days. Um. And now I think it's just a matter of seeing whether China's telegraphing of this stuff in advance is enough to allow US officials to sort of manage the situation so that there's no you know, as they always talk about in US China relations now to make sure there's no miscalculation, uh, you know, and

veering the competition into conflict. As they also like to say, all right, thank you both so much for weighing in here, strategy risks CEO Isaac Stonefish, along with Bloomer's own in Marlow. Of course, we're going to continue to follow every detail of this visit as it plays out. Airbnb shares down in late training after reporting second quarter results. This despite the home sharing giant saying revenue in the current quarter

will be the highest in its history. Brent Phil Jeffrey's managing director and analyst, joins us now to discuss So, look, you've had AIRBNBI benefiting from the travel rebound, but investors not happy with this report. Why is that booking's actually fell emily for the third quarter in terms of below consensus, about five percent below where the street was at. And I think ultimately there's also a fear that this was

the summer of travel that everyone went to Europe. You can see local destinations inside California, for example, saw their bookings down, but Europe saw this huge boom. Many of us, including my own family, who went to Europe came back and started to look at our credit card and say, wow, okay, we haven't been been anywhere for a couple of years to look at the bill. And so I think there's perhaps a little bit of a travel hangover coming in

the fall into the winner. And that may also be a fear that many investors that are in my position now have said, Hey, I just took the big trip, tap time, tap the tap the air brakes and put money into other things. Uh. That's that's one element. I think. Ultimately the macro condition is starting to show signs of weakness. You're seeing gas prices in the or uh you know, shift where they're spending dollars. If Walmart called this out, a lot of other companies are calling this the shift out.

Williamson our restoration of hardware obviously saying it's not can be is good in the back half. You're you're just seeing across many consumers. So we call it a discretionary recession that many of us may start to rethink were these dollars today that AIRBB for the most part, are you know, is spent money that is for fun? It's not it's not a must have, it's a it's nice to have. They'll argue other otherwise for for myself, but I'm trying to What I'm trying to put in is

what what Why would the stock be down? Why would people be barished from here? I think those would be the reasons to be bullish. Obviously, they're in an incredible position, amazing management team, incredible selection of uh and portfolio, and I think they're really innovating on the platform, and there's just incredible innovation relative to any other consumer brand you travel to on the web. I still think this is

the best you want, best experience. Some of the best content They did come out with categories, which was their big design change in the last few months. You do cover Uber as well, and I'm kind of interested in comparing them. But first I want you to hear this quote from Dar cause were showing you from our interview earlier today. He is said in the past he thinks Uber is recession proof. Take a listen to why. Because

we're in multiple businesses, both in mobility and delivery. I think we have a kind of business that can perform in all weather. But at the same time, we are being disciplined in terms of costs to make sure that as the environment if it gets tougher, we are prepared.

Right you saw Uber's nembers today. Do you think Uber really is recession proof and is it more recession proof and air being be I think to some degree, because we're starting to go back to work or going back to events, we're traveling to kids sporting events, like we're using we're using their transportation, not only the cars, but

the bikes and scooters. And again I was a huge adopter of of of the line uh scooter line this summer with my family in Europe and as a part in the partnership with Uber, and and I think ultimately I agree with that to to some degree. I think ultimately the question mark is going to be around the

discretionary travel. And again when we look at Airbnb, if you look at other travel names, if we start to see a little bit of a travel hangover post this summer, there could be a little bit of a setback on that side. The positive thing for Uber is employers, including in our own employer, is saying get back in the office.

We need you back multiple days a week. Obviously, we still have COVID cases flaring, and I think ultimately people are still reluctant to want to be a mass transport in a big way, and they feel comfortable, you know, perhaps being in the back of a car going into the winter. If if, if we'd see another UH phase of COVID cases. So I think, look, I I don't disagree with them. I do think there's an element of the business that I could feel the pain. But one

thing that's going for Uber right now is evaluation. It's the worst sentiment of any Internet company and perhaps any tech company we cover. And the sentiment going into this print was awful, and now they're showing cash flow and they're effectively doing what we think is the right thing was that it's just not a top it's got a bottom line, and they're showing they can be very profitable

with with their network. Interesting, all right, Brent Phil Jefferies, managing Director, Thanks for giving us your quick reacts on both of those companies. Coming up a tale of two coasts. Uber is seeing a slowdown on the West coast but a pickup in the East. I have more of my post earnings conversation with Uber CEO dark cosbra Shy, who was quite happy about the stock pop when we talked

this morning. He's coming up next. This is Bloomberg. Uber defied inflation in the second quarter, reporting better than expected earnings. Shares popped on that news that Lubers gross bookings including ride sharing, food delivery, and frank rose to an all time high. I spoke with CEO dar Causra Shay about everything from surge pricing to a slowdown in demand on the West Coast. Take a listen to some extent, it's a continuation of the last few quarters, but we're really

hitting a scale point here. Like you said, twenty nine billion dollars in gross bookings of thirty six percent on a year on your basis, uh as, it relates on a constant currency basis or three sixty two million, well above our guidance range. And the guidance that we gave forward was well above street estimates, etcetera. So an indication

of anticipated strength coming. And then a really important factor for us is we're free cash full positive two million dollars in free cash flow, which is a big positive factor in our being self sustaining and profitable going forward. And when we look at the environment, the marketplace is more balanced. The number of new drivers that we're adding in the US is up over seventy on a year on your basis surges down E T A s or down. Uh, So the business is really hitting on all cylinders and

it's reflected in the stock press, which is great. I do want to ask you a little bit about the broader environment, Dara. I still hear people say Uber is expensive, and we're seeing Uber benefiting from this. When you look at your earnings and the bottom line, how do you think about this dynamic longer term? Do you worry at all about alienating customers when they're already getting squeezed given

that this is the worst inflationary environment in Uber's history. Yeah, I think inflation is hitting all of us, whether it's grocery prices or fuel prices. And remember fuel is a big component of our driver costs, so that affects Uber prices as well, and you do see it in a result. While trips were up, which is really really healthy growth growth, bookings were up faster than that, which indicates some inflationary

effect on our results. I think the good news for US is that surge levels are actually coming down E T A s are coming down, so as the marketplace becomes more balanced, we actually see strength in terms of trip growth going forward, and we're hoping if we do our jobs and so far, so good onboarding more and more drivers, that prices on Uber will ease going forward. At the same time, drivers will make really strong earnings as well. At the same time, we've heard so many

dire warnings about the economy. Jamie Diamond has said he's prepared for an economic hurricane. I just spoke to Apple CEO Tim Cook, who said, you know, he plans to be deliberate in Apple spending. You said in the past that you think Uber is recession resistant. Do you still believe that if we continue to see these down downward trends and what is uber strategy to navigate continuing downward trends? Well, I think you're certainly seeing in earn results, which is uh.

There's been a bunch of earnings results out there, and and sometimes they've been less than great. I think Uber's earnings have been terrific in every way, top line growth, profitability growth as well. Um. At the same time, we are being disciplined in terms of how we grow going forward. This is why our margins are improving so much on a year. On your basis free cash flow is now

positive as well. Because of the scale that we have, because we're in multiple businesses, both in mobility and delivery. I think we have a kind of business that can perform in all weather. But at the same time, we are being disciplined in terms of costs to make sure that as the environment, if it gets tougher, we are prepared. You mentioned on the call that West coast markets are taking a little bit longer to come back, and I'm I'm thinking about San Francisco and how it's been a

struggle to get workers back to the office. How are you thinking about this and Uber's, for example, Uber's own flexible work policies. Do you see the flexibility that you're giving workers holding up into next year, for example? Does it does feel like the tail of two coasts? You know, when we look at the East coast New York, Miami, even UH cities, Atlanta, Austin, Dallas. Our business is coming back, is roaring back UH at this point, and we feel

great about that business. Now. The San Francisco market's Los Angeles, Seattle, they're certainly coming back. But when you look at the absolute levels versus pre pandemic levels, UH, it's a very very different story. UM, and you know, we'll keep pushing and we will do our part to make sure that we've got an ample supply in those markets. Uh. And the service works very well. You can check out the full interview with uber ceo Dark Cause with Shaw here

at Bloomberg dot com. Welcome back to Bloomberg Technology. I'm Emily checking in San Francisco. I want to get back to our top story, and that is US House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's visit to Taiwan. We are already seeing a major company react. In a Bloomberg scoop c A t L, the world's biggest maker of Evy battery cells, has pushed back plans to announce a North American plant because of this visit to Taiwan. Are at Ludlow help break this

story at what exactly do we know about this decision? Yes, the sources say that CTL was considering sites in Mexico and the United States. As we reported a month ago, they were close, they were agreeing incentives, they were choosing their preferred site. And given the geopolitical tension between the United States and China due to Speaker Pelosi's business Taiwan, they've decided to push it back to September October. So they're not necessarily saying this is not going to happen.

It's just the announcement has been exactly So there's a commitment from CTL, according sources, to do this right. They're they're key customers are here. There are a big supplier to Tesla for Tesla's China built vehicles. They have an agreement to supply Forward in the future. And as we've reported, Forward and Tesla were kind of key to those talks.

But it's too hot right now, and and and you know, they are also trying to think about potential incentives in the background from the federal government here in the United States. They just don't want to get caught up in this with what's happening. How strategically important is this company to say a Tesla or Afford. Yeah, the reality is CTL is a Chinese company. It is the kind of crown jewel in China's EV industry. It's the biggest maker, as you said, of EV battery cells. But the issue the

whole industry faces is there is not enough supply. We need more battery cells, more players, and having that ct L plant, whether it ends up being in the US or in Mexico, nearer to where vehicles are actually being built by tests or by ford is so important. If we've learned one thing in the last two years, it's supply chains can on revel really quickly overseas, So on shoring this production would really help. Now we have these

geopolitical issues in the way. Long term though, are you seeing this as a company that could have a very significant presence on this side of the Pacific Ocean. So the commitment that they're making initially is five billion dollars. That gets you quite a lot of factory, you know, quite a lot of plant. The footprint that we've reported on is very big. You know, we're talking about EV battery cells at a mass scale and for multiple players.

Think about the giga factories for example, that the Panasonic has a Nevada and others have done deals on the West coast, East coast. Sorry, so this is big and it's important, all right, I'd love them, thank you well.

See Bloomberg terminal clients think Elon schiill be forced to own Twitter by the end of this saga about and more than respondents to include portfolio managers and retail traders say Mask won't end up owning Twitter, the deal that led Mosque to offload about eight and a half billion dollars worth of Tesla shares back in April. One third of respondents protect he'll settle with a social media company for more than a billion dollars rather than seeing through

that forty four billion dollar takeover. Joining me now Grace Capital founder and chief investment officer Katherine Faddis, who took questions about the survey with Luke Ventures Gene Munster. Uh this Tuesday morning. So what's your take, Katherine? How does this play out in Delaware court? Yeah? I think I'm going to agree with the respondents. I think ultimately this deal doesn't happen. I'm not It's not clear to me why it made sense to begin with. And I understand

um Elon Musk is very smart. He took testl off from loss making deal and he's made it a success. He made pay palace success. Maybe there's a theory he was going turn around Twitter and you know, pull something else out of his hat. But apparently he's lost interest and I think it's time to move on Dot Org. What does this mean for Twitter and what would it mean for Tesla. You know, for Twitter, I think it's been quite disruptive and I'm almost wondering if they're going

to try to get more than the billion dollars. And I think if there was the people who believe in Elon Must thought wow, he's going to get involved in Twitter and he's going to turn it into a gold mine. So I think for Twitter it's it's not good either way. I think it's been disruptive. I think if there was hope, you know, Twitter shareholders were going to get a lot of money. Now they're not. It's just not good. And

I think Twitter's business model is struggling anyway. And for Tesla, I think it might be good news because I think that it was a distraction. It was a distraction for Tesla shareholders. They want Elon must focusing on Tesla, solving the problems, bringing you know, the wonderful things he's done operationally, supply chain efficiency, all the great things that make Tesla what it is. So I think it's good news for Tesla.

Tesla has a huge footprint in China, and I'm curious how you think this big visit Nancy Pelosi going to Taiwan against the wishes of the Chinese government. If there's an impact for Tesla here, clearly there will be an impact because I think China understands the importance of Tesla um as an entity, and I think it's a Tesla is in many senses, a crown jewel. So if China wanted to retaliate, Tesla would be an easy target. And remember,

Tesla has big plans for China. Not only do they produce a lot there, but it was going to be a big market for them. So I think certainly this would keep me up at night if I were on the board of Tesla. But it is what it is, and I think he's going to have to figure out how to move forward. You wonder if it's keeping up elon Musk, how dependent do you think Tesla's valuation, uh,

space x is valuation is on Musk alone. His cult of personality, I think currently a lot, because he really does have this fabulous track record and people look at what he does. He can take anything and turn it into gold, and he's done it, and so he deserves it. He deserves the reputation. But I think a lot of those things can be learned. So I go back to Steve Jobs and Apple. I never thought Apple could make

it without Steve Jobs. Guess what I was wrong? Uh, Since when he died, Apple has beaten the stock market by a thousand percent. So there is life after Elon Musk. There's life after all of us. But I don't want to minimize its importance. Uh two space X and I think it's real. I think he really has brought process improvements. If it's and see, do you look at the way the cars are manufacturers? Did you look at the way he's locked up the supply chain for years and years

to come with lithium technology. I mean he's clearly very smart, So he's important. All Right, Grace Capital founder and chief investment officer Katherine Faddis really appreciate your thoughts here on the show. Thank you for stopping by. All right, Coming up over technologists signing a letter to Congress urging for more skepticism in crypto. We've talked a lot about the optimists. We're gonna talk a little bit about the pessimists. Next.

This is Bloomberg. The no intermediary system does not scale that three to seven transactions per second world. Why that's the hard limit? It doesn't do whatonents say it does. It's not secure, it's not distributed, it's not reliable, it doesn't scale, it doesn't actually do anything that they don't actually work for payments if the payments would be processed by the normal system. I think eventually it will crash, because all bubbles will crash. Ethereum has been promising proof

of steaks since basically they started. Wake me up when the transition happens. The problem is that blockchain adds in security, it adds all sorts of inefficiencies and makes things worse. It also creates another problem of he who has the gold makes the rules. Right now, people are are losing their money and people are really getting hurt because there's so much fraud. So I think it needs serious regulation. From a technological standpoint, there's no innovation. Economically, it is

a self assembled Ponzi scheme. Nicholas we were there, professor in the computer science department at you See Berkeley, along with Bruce Nyer, a computer security professional and public policy lecture at the Harvard Kennedy School. They're both some of the lead signatories of this open letter to Congress, signed by fifteen hundred technologists and urging lawmakers to quote take a critical skeptical approach toward industry claims that crypto assets

are an innovative technology that is unreservedly good. Let's break it all down in today's Crypto Report with our own crypto contributors Snale, Bostic, Shanale. We've talked a lot too. We've talked to a lot of the bulls. I haven't talked to so many of the bears talked to us

more about their message to Congress. And what's interesting here to Emily is that it's important to remember there's a bit of a war in Washington going on when you think about cryptocurrency, the people who don't want congressmen and women to be supporting them, and the people that do and are pouring millions of dollars into lobbying campaigns to

that effect and into political campaigns to crypto friendly a lawmakers. Remember, I talked to Anthony Scarammucci about this earlier this year too, and there are men people who believe that this is gonna be like him, that believe that this is going to be a key issue leading into the midterms and otherwise. So what is the problem here for the folks who

have signed this letter. Some of the issues are quite technical, and concern about not being able to reverse transactions, concerns about data privacy, and the sense that is crypto something that is a solution looking for a problem? Why crypto when fintech does the job. In the US we already have digital payments at scale to some degree. It's interesting because when you look at the data from it, it's

interesting because you know, you saw cryptocurrency transactions. Bitcoin transaction volumes surpass that of VISA, but really come down a little more this year. I think which will win out at the end is interesting and which technology will be dominant. The skeptics and this letter are really attest to the idea that bitcoin and frankly blockchain more more broadly, is not the solution to these problems. There's a lot of complicated dynamics at play here. We've were reported on the

revolving door between the crypto industry and Capitol Hill. You've got crypto companies making big donations ahead of the midterms. You've got crypto lobbyists shaping policy. Is there enough skepticism on Capitol Hill of this industry. I think time will tell on how much there is a pusher of poll I mean, you're you're asking this question where it seems like there are a lot of lawmakers that very publicly

go out and support cryptocurrency. But we're also in a regime where the head of the SEC has been cracking down on massive enforcement issues in a way that we have not seen to this scale, and the tensions really boil over. So it's a great question, where is the support in Washington when so many millions of dollars are going into support the industry. Remember, this is not a panacea. You're looking at the crypto industry, and really this is a really um thorough and long critique of the blockchain

technology itself. U as as problematic is really how they're phrasing this, because fraud mitigation is a big issue when it comes to blockchain. Let me give you another perspective here. In a conversation I had with the CEO of NASDAC recently, she told me that she believes there could be a

day where every asset on the planet could be digitized. Clearly, even current as CEOs of big financial firm seem used to blockchain technology that these researchers are disputing, but that fraud mitigation part is such a key argument to both people who believe in it and the people who don't. All right, Shinali, I want to touch you about another

developing story. I just got off a call with the CEO of Robin Hood Lad ten Of and their CFO Jason Warnick Robin Hood announcing they're laying off of the company. Here are a couple of thoughts from Lad on that call, he said, I anticipated that what we saw in one in terms of the market conditions would lasts longer than it turned out. That's on me. Employees from all functions will be impacted by these changes. Are concentrated in OPTS marketing,

program management. They over hired in these supports functions. He says. This is to right size and exercise cost discipline. This is a big chunk of jobs from what was a hot rising company. But you know they've only been public for a year, still a fairly young company. What's your take. Yeah, it's interesting because that comment that you had put out there really has gone fairly viral online. It's being shared

pretty broadly that it's on me comment. So if it is on him, then you know what other pressure is there on him? To really change the course of this business. Uh, they did false they pre reported. Remember they were not even supposed to report their earnings today, and they did fall short of expectations, including in kind of the core business, that transaction based revenue, that payment for order flow, money

that comes in from the stocks and options business. In addition to you know, remember that crypto business is still a small fraction of what they make overall when you compare it to the point I've been making all day, emilies. If you look at f t X, and we know Sam Bankman Freed is very exposed to Robin Hood. F t X has grown massively with a few hundred employees, essentially a lot smaller, a lot more nimble, but Robin

Hood has has hired many, many hundreds of people. And now you're seeing such a sharp reversal of that that is really going to impact an entire industry here, all right, we are going to continue to watch that one play out. Shanali, thank you for your insight there, Bloomberg's Shanali Bossi sticking with Robin Hood, the company's crypto arm is gonna have to pay thirty million dollars a penalty to New York

state more not good news. A statement from the New York Department of Financial Services points to quote significant failures in the areas of bank secrecy, anti money laundering obligations, and cyber security. Robin Hood Crypto will also be required to retain an independent consultant to perform a comprehensive evaluation of the company's compliance with the Department's regulations. Cohe City

has a new CEO on board. Former vm Ware CEO and SAP president san j pun And joining the data management company as the cloud wars continue in the midst of rising inflation ing and a looming macro economic downturn. Newly minted Cohesity President and CEO, Sanja pun And joins us. Now, it's always been good to get your thoughts on big picture trends over the years, and in the middle of

the pandemic. I remember reading the story about you. You voluntarily decided to leave your last job and take some time off in the pandemic, and that was kind of a trend among you know, tech veterans like yourself. How did you decide that this was the right move. Yeah, it's been great. It's a day two. I've got my COHESI shirt. I'm excited. But it's been a great year sabbatical, almost twenty since I took one. What did you learn from your sabbatical? How to spend more time with family.

That's always the thing that all executives are hard charging need to do. Spend more time with your o ones. Kidding omen and that as I think the piece that you read talked about executives doing that. So it's been great investing in companies are joined two boards, met a lot of entrepreneurs and it was in that context that I met Mohi who is the current founder of Cohesively, and I spent the last few months really vetting out.

I'd heard great things about them and followed them from VM or was there a big partner of ours And these guys are the best tech in the platform, obviously doing credit will and data management, data security and a few weeks ago decide today CS and today's day two. So do you think burnout is real and that more tech executives could use a break. I think all of us need to build work life balance into our lives,

so it isn't burnout. I wasn't you know, taking that down for burnout, But when you do have a point in time where you can take that time off. What's the things that are closest to you, whether it's family, whether it's a hobby, whatever it is. And that's what it was very fortunate we will do. But I was also felt there was a lot of gas in my tank. I wasn't ready to retire for life and I want

to get back in the saddle. So what's your take on what's happening in the big cloud wars and the trends that we should be watching, especially as you know rising inflation, all of these businesses talking about being more disciplined. We just talked about Robin Hood laying off of its workforce. I think they out in the enterprise spending market. Yeah, and the point is his enterprise. The B two B

enterprise side of cloud is doing well. You just look at the recent results and even the last three quarters of Amazon, Azure, Google, I build relationship with them. I think that also has a tremendous opportunity for us at Cohesive because we're at the junction of data, cloud and security. So I think cloud and cybersecurity are doing well. So if you're in those sectors and B two B there's

some resilience. You have to prepare for potentially recession, whether we go through once, You've got to be careful about your spending. This is a smaller company than what I've seen before VM. We're n s a P. But if you've got great customers like we do a global One customer told me they haven't seen tech like this Emily since VM. We're twenty years ago, Amazon ten years ago, and most recently Go Easy. That's the list of customers you want that will take you through even tough times.

The huge news today in the world and also the business world is this visit by Nancy Pelosi to Taiwan, which could have broad implications for the U. China relationship and the tech industry, which obviously has deep ties to China. What do you think the longer term implications of this are you know, as a business leader, does it worry you? I think we have to have an ad policy. I'm super excited that Chip sack was was was signed and it really strengthens companies like Intel, all the ones that

do manufacturing. That's good for us, but we also need a strong tie with Taiwan and Taiwan s and a conductor. They're also a somewhat of a beneficiary there, but a strong relationship with especially Taiwan s and a conductor that's super important. Chips are inside every fabric wildlife, whether it's cars, or whether it's healthcare devices, whether it's your smartphones. And a strong relations with Taiwan and US, I think signals to other people who may not want to see that happen,

that we're standing by neighbor and friend. How concerned are you about a recession? Are we already in a recession? Should they just call it? I'm not an economist, so I can't speculate. Many people do I I certainly think you have to brace yourself when you have these for these sort of trifactor of inflation, war in Russia, Ukraine. Uh. You know all of these kinds of factors, and you know the currency issues. So you're a brace for yourself. And what do you do? The strong should hopefully get

stronger if you're a company, you learn how to. I've seen this in two thousand eight, and I saw this in two thousand It's not the first one I've seen. I think great companies get stronger. Some great companies were born during the recession. You talked to uber. Google was formed in two thousands, so I think great companies ubers

in two thousand eight and Google was two thousand. So that's my my message to our employees of Cohesive, great companies can thrive you and further if you're focusing your customers, if you use the ecosystem to force multiply you and you keep retaining and recruiting good people. All right, Sanji Puna, CEO and president of Cohesity, We'll be watching you on your next adventure. Thank you, thank you very much everything.

And that does it for this edition of Bloomberg Technology. Tomorrow, I'm gonna be speaking with airbnbco Brian Chesky, also Anthony Nodo, CEO of so FI post earnings results and well it's a big day micro Strategies Michael Sailor about his clans to step down and focus more on bitcoin acquisitions. Definitely in a show you don't want to miss, and don't forget to check out our podcast wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Emily checking in San Francisco. This is Bloomberg