AI Global Coalition, Amazon's Shareholder Letter

From Marhart where Innovation, Money and Power Collie in Silicon Vallet NBN.

This is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline Hyde and Ed loud Love.

And Caroline Heide Bloomberg's world headquarters in New York and AURM Ed Lodlow in San Francisco. This is Bloomberg Technology coming up.

Amazon CEO Annie Jase He says that general to AI boom is going to be.

Built on Amazon Web Services.

Or we need the takeaways from his annual letters.

To shareholders class technology heavyweights to send on Washington for the White House steak dinner with big names like Jeff Bezos and Tim Kirk attending a lavish event and.

Open AI CEO Sam Altman pictures a global AI coalition on his visit to the Middle East.

Next stop.

Maybe we see him over on Capitol Hill too. We'll discuss that and so much more throughout this hour. But Ed, we start on these markets up a quarter of a percentage point currently NASDAK managing.

To put itself off of its lows.

This is we once again really tackle inflationary pressures. Whether it's a PPI number coming after the CPI print yesterday, both showing inflationary pressures just start dialing up that little bit. And we're seeing though, managing the NASDAK to outperform as bomb.

Markets actually pull back a little bit. I'm looking at the two year yield.

We're outperforming on the front end of the curve, whereas the back end, the tenure yield, for example, you'll still pushing higher. But really the big move was yesterday, and looking at what's happening in the euro it's not just all about the Federal Reserve. It's about global world banks at the moment, central.

Banks that is.

And we're looking at what the ECB said, look staying pat as many had anticipated in terms of interest rates, but signaling that inflationary pressures are dialing down across the Atlantic, and therefore could we see cuts coming or off by three tens percent versus the US dollar.

Moving on, look at what else is performing versus the US dollar. Crypto I'm down.

By two tens percent on bitcoin at the moment, just sub that seventy thousand dollars level.

But what are you watching on the micro.

There are a lot of stories to fit in today. Apple's a name that we're going to look at later in the program with Bloomberg's Mark German rough eight tens one percent. Early unionization efforts are kind of the main headline. But there is a note from JP Morgan analysts that say that hedge funds are now looking at this stock and considering what happens next with artificial intelligence in the

We are long shareholder letters.

Let's dig in with punam Call and BLUEBG Intelligence and Ed just puts it so eloquently there. Ultimately, they want to be at the very heart the infrastructure of generative AI. Yes, they will build a substantial number of GENAI applications ourselves, but they're looking to others to build.

Yes, you're absolutely right.

You know, right now Amazon lags Microsoft when it comes to AI because Microsoft has access to the open AI. However, as they build these building blocks going forward, they can close that gap over time. So we think the investment is right. We think the time is right, and generator of AI will not only help fueld the AWS business, but also it's e commerce marketplace business where it will help drive sales higher.

Pun and what we're talking about specifically is I think and you can go to Bedrock if you're a very large enterprise player or a smaller startup and build your own large language model, you can take advantage of a third party large language model. Caroline and I have spoken to Anthropic, for example Daniella m O'Day, and she talks about all the.

Business they're winning through AWS.

Bedrock What I don't know is Amazon's cloud business AWS actually gaining new customers, gaining growth or market share because of their strategy with Bedrock.

Yeah, I think you know, over time they will gain new customers. It's just a matter of getting these large language models developed and them getting the customers interested. But we do think their scope for Amazon to continue to gain in that vertical.

What's interesting is well Google's event earlier this week, Cloud Event, and they were really saying that it's startups that are coming to them for cloud. How much, ultimately do companies.

Diversify, not go all in with one player.

I think diversification will happen across the board. It depends on what you're using and where you want to be. Amazon has done a great job in attracting not just the startups but also established businesses, So.

We think the scope is wide.

We do think they're in the early innings of this, and we do think right now they lag, but that doesn't mean that they'll lag for a long time.

Let's talk about Andy Jesse.

He comes from AWS, that was his world, but the story since he's taken the helm of Amazon has been about cost discipline. In fact, don't even call it discipline pooa, let's call it what it is, cutting cost lowering CAPEX. And when I read the letter, he seems committed to that.

Still, yes, he does.

In fact, you know, they've been highlighting since last quarter about the forty five cent reduction that they've had per unit in their cost basis, and they think they can press the pedal harder on that this year, largely as they base GLEE streamline their inbound fulfillment, and they parse out packages more efficiently to those regional distribution centers that allow for SIND delivery.

Clunamgyle of Bloomberg Intelligence one of our analysts that leaves coverage of this stock, and we're really grateful to have you in reaction. Meanwhile, Amazon founder Jeff Bezos joined tech heavyweights last night at the White House state dinner hosted by President Biden for Japan's Prime Minister Fumiyo Kashida. Attendees included Bezos's fiance Lawrence Sanchez, Apple CEO Tim Cook and executive Lisa Jackson. Microsoft president Brad Smith was Intendants as

Broadly for big get togethers of some important players, no matter where they tend to be based. I mean, this is where certain conversations had, deals are done. How many are having intimate conversations with the Prime Minister of Japan. But more broadly, I liked his Star Trek reference as well. If you heard some of the commentary coming out of the Leader of Japan, he was sort of going to go boldly where no one has been before in terms of deepening the US Japanese relationship.

But this is more broad, isn't as well?

I mean, there's a delightful menu that they managed to be having triage Raby state not bad. But this is also about deepening ties. But not just from an economic perspective. We've got to think of this from a geopolitical perspective, and notably what's happening with the Philippines coming in at the moment, and indeed what this means for China US relations.

Yeah, I go straight to China when the CEOs turn up. You know that that market is important, right, whether it's for supply chain or the economy direct.

So let's bring up menu back up.

That is contemporary modern American Japanese fusion.

That looks great.

But there's also a political element to this as well, that Biden had a lot of big names in the White House in an election year.

Character Yeah, I think that is really notable and ultimately trying to ensure that the economy is what Biden can hang his hat on as well. Many worrying about the inflationary pressures that were garnered yesterday and they did what this really means for Biden Bidenomics and the lack thereof but tech heavyweight really clear and present when it comes to relationships with US and Japan.

JP Morgan.

It kicks off earning season Banks they are at the start of them hammers tomorrow and earlier this week. Just remember we heard from the CEO Jamie Diamond in his annual letter to shareholders where he focused mainly on artificial intelligence joining us now to discuss how banksy utilizing the technology investing in it.

Evidence CEO Alexandra was a Visita is with us.

Evidence is an intelligent platform that really benchmarks attracts AI adoption across financial services sector.

And JP Morgan is the standout performer.

Alexandra, you think that's in some way akin to the performance of the bank.

Can it stop more broadly, Yeah, well, thank you so much for having me on Caroline and ED. But its performance is incredibly strong in terms of its AI maturity, its head and shoulders above other banks. It was early

We've been looking at the data behind JP Morgan's AI hiring. You just made a really interesting point, which is six years ago this all started.

Let's show the chart.

There's the AI hype of twenty two, twenty twenty three, but if you track the.

Hiring and what's so interesting.

The title of that chart is JP Morgan slows AI hiring. But look how elevated it was in twenty twenty two and it started back in twenty twenty. What do you make of that about how ahead of the curve or not? So to speak, JP Morgan.

Is Yeah, I mean, I mean, first of all, it's a really important point that you make it in terms of the hype in twenty two and twenty three of AI and sort of what we're heading into is more of a let's sort of see what gets through production.

It's much harder.

Than we think, and sort of the use cases going from ideation to production just takes a little longer, and some of that slow down and hiring is also a little bit of a let's what talent do we actually need? But when you look at that chart, you can see that really being on a hiring tear from for the last sort of six seven years. And you know, the proportion of AI talent and the caliber of AI talent

Talking of talent, of course, within that shareholder letter was the demonstration and their commitment to elevating almost exs level the discussion around AI, and they mention the importance in creating that new position Chief Data and Analytics Officer that

Where are they passing this on to the user of JP Morgan.

Yeah, when it comes to well, first of all, when it comes to driving the use of AI and where you sort of look at the letter as really talking about gaining efficiencies and really making the banks sort of strong and lean and robust forwithstanding sort of any macro challenges on you know, in the future, So looking at driving down the costs and bringing up efficiency and bringing up productivity, and AI being used to also see where you can elevate revenues.

Is it's whereas that it's sort of.

In every newk and cranny of the bank looking at sort of the ways that it can create that return on investment. And then you know, with the AI tools that then gets passed on to the customer and you know in better customer management, you know experiences if time and.

To Alexandra, do you think Jamie Diamond has a good understanding of artificial intelligence?

He himself, he is.

Nick He saw it very early. He knew it was going to be very impactful. He was one of the first CEOs bank CEOs to go out and and say we are changing. We are going to be an AI company or an AI first company, where many banks would be we're going to be great banks and using AI to become a little bit better bank. He was a visionary with that. I think he has a good understanding.

Yes, he's more upbeat about it than he is about Bitcoin. Alex and Mussa Visita. It's great to have you, of evident. Of course, now EU's top tech regulator, Margareta ves Thea says AI could be as disruptive as the atomic bomb. The Executive Vice President of the European Commission joined Bloomberg earlier today to talk about the current state of AI.

It's top of mind for us to make sure that the market stays competitive. When everything gets fueled by artificial intelligence, it's going to change the marketplace.

Do you have a timeline at all, Commissioner, when we could potentially see.

Some movement on this.

No, we don't have a fixed timeline.

Of course, we want to produce results as fast as possible, also for the involved companies for their benefit. We'll be getting there soon, I think.

So we're talking about Microsoft and open Ai, but of course they're not the only players. To hear, you have Amazon actually with a big almost three billion dollar investment into Anthropic, which of course competes with OpenAI.

What do you make of that?

Is that something that you're looking at as well?

Well? We will be having, you know, a vigilant, keen attention to what is happening in this field. We see a lot of entrenched market power when it comes to technology, and it's really important that now when we have technology which is not just a new technology, it's it's basically a new world that we're looking into, that we make sure that it's a competitive new world.

You just recently under the DMA went after three big US tech companies, and to be honest, Commissioner, three is a crowd. I'm really curious to know which of these you are honing in on. And because a lot of people really seem to think it's Apple, where the EU has a lot of problems with.

Well, what's the point of the Digital Markets Act is to open the market to make sure that that more businesses can can get to their customers so customers have more choice. So obviously we are looking at getting out of self preferencing so that you do not if your for instance, have a Google search and you do not just get a Google products. And we're looking at how

Well among those three Apple, Google and Meta, do you have a priority target?

Well, we have opened these five cases because we think these are very important.

We may have more cases in the.

Pipeline, so we have given retaining orders for what may be evidence once we're moving forward. These five cases, they are all priority. We think that they are absolutely key if our suspicions are confirmed that we get compliance because this is this is what opens the market, and that's the basic idea. Are the Digital Markets Act for many more businesses to have a fair chance to get to their customers.

Okay, time for talking tech and first up.

KKR is said to be reviewing options of a sale or an IPO for BMC software, which could be worth as much as fifteen billion dollars including debt. That's according to sources. While no final decisions have been made, KKR is favoring an IPO of BMC, which filed confidentially last

A few years.

In a recent report by PwC, it estimated that AI will contribute nearly ninety six billion dollars to the UAE and one hundred and thirty five billion to Saudi Arabia's economy by twenty thirty.

Caroline That was a great business sweep piece.

Meanwhile, let's just talk about employees over in an Apple store in Shorthills, New Jersey, just petitioned to unionize. It's marking the first lutch effort that we've seen it in about a year long lull of news around this. Bloomberg's Mark German just going to remind us of the context when it comes to Apple, because they're not the first store that's looking to unionize.

Yeah, no, that's a great point.

The Apple unionization efforts really kicked into high gear right in the.

Middle of the COVID pandemic. In twenty twenty two.

You saw their retail store in the Towson area of Maryland petition to unionize.

They successfully unionized.

Are now recognize is a unionized Apple retail store. The Penn Station store and a mall in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma is a unionized store. So those two are the only two unionized stores. But there have been a few other stores that attempted, one in Saint Louis, Missouri, one in Atlanta, Georgia.

Those fell apart.

One of those unions even chastised the union company and ended up siding with Apple. Now you have another store joining in and that is the Short Hills mall store and upscale area in New Jersey. And at this point it's still early. They've petitioned, they have one hundred and four employees that would be part of the union. There still needs to be a vote. They still need to get to the bargaining table with Apple.

But this is the process.

And so this was a major development petitioning publicly stating hey, we are trying to unionize.

So this is a big deal. The fifth store that we know of to attempt.

They are trying to unionize. This is a path trodden by Amazon. You know, Caroline and I've kind of been through a similar story arc with that company.

But I guess the next question.

At all smart, what is Apple's attitude towards unionization the company's approach.

Well, the company is completely against unionization. They've been holding roundtables at the Short Hills, New Jersey store for months now pushing back on the idea of that team unionizing. They don't want to have to change their perks, their benefits, their pay strategy. You know, Apple is a company that wants things to be consistent and completely under their control.

Unionization upsets that.

Finely tuned balance the company has enjoyed for as long as it has under Tim Cook and Steve Jobs before him, So certainly this is not something that Apple wants. I think they're fairly happy that out of the two hundred and seventy and change retail stores in the US, only two have successfully unionized, and of those two, they haven't given them anything.

Blamebak's chief correspondent Motgum and thank you.

Welcome back to blame Bags ten Lovelow here in San Francisco and Caroline Heid and New York.

I've got to check on the markets for you, Ed, because right now, no, we're actually seeing NAZAC and tech stocks outperform on a day where bon yields are still selling off on the end of the curve, so ten yure yields are seeing four basis points to the higher.

We are still trying to.

Debate the inflatory pressures we have PPI today, CPI yesterday, still showing inflation is kind of going the wrong direction for the Federal Reserve. If banking on a cup come June, people starting to take those bets off the table. We're seeing Bitcoin under pressure just by two tens percent, where of sixty nine thousand s.

It's around sixty five.

We're basically kind of treading water ahead of earning season as well, the banks kicking off tomorrow. Moving on to some individual movers, I mean interesting on the upside, A lot of the key names are used to Nvidia, Apple, indeed, even Amazon and a new record high today after its shareholder letter.

I want to shine on an Atlassian.

It's getting an upgrade from analysts thinking that now is the time to be buying into this enterprise focus software company.

So up more than three percent. Tesla though once again languishing, pulling back.

In fact, you noted that Rivian shares performing as much as seven percent to a record lows. Some reports that Ford is cutting its evil prices. Elon Musk apparently looking at India. Maybe we'll get some updates on supply and in team demand coming from that country. Adobe, though, want to watch interesting reporting coming out on basically how expensive it is sometimes to be training your large language models and text to video in particular, and where you're getting some of those videos from.

We want to dig in on Nado.

We've just done a pressure by about percentage point today, but looking like it is really trying to take on the likes of Saura. Of course open aiyes product when it comes to AI video generation, apparently offering it's network of photographers and artists get this one hundred and twenty dollars to submit videos of people engaged in everyday actions, walking, expressing emotions, joy, anger, according to documents all seen by Bloomberg. Let's just get more of our own reporter Brady Ford,

You'd have thought, but maybe they have to pay a bit extra.

Yeah, it's a funny dynamic.

So they have this giant repository of they've been using to train their photos. They got like three hundred million photos, not as big of a deal when it comes to the video. They don't have quite as much of that in the stock libraries. So we see now that they're starting to procure data to be able to train on.

I like them thing we're all really fit.

Yes, they think we're all very fit, or they don't even have any videos of us doing it so they know we're not right. But yeah, so they really need these videos to help their model understand how the world works and so that they can, you know, not get smoked by open AI.

Mate two dollars sixty two cents per minute or as high as seven dollars five cents per minute, based on your reporting good reporting. If you're the CFO or COO of Adobe, and that's before you facturing compute costs, you're not going to be thrilled about the cost of training a model like the Economic Sphere are actually newsworthy.

This is a surprise.

So it's not quite as high as it may sound like, right, because it's one hundred and twenty dollars for one hundred short videos.

Right.

I was trying to do the math of if I wanted.

To create this, it's going to take you a good five six hours to make all these videos doing push ups, then cooking and smiling and frowning. I mean, the actual amount they're paying ends up being pretty low. And you could say that all. I mean, they could scrape the open Internet for free, but we know that there are issues there with tagging the videos correctly getting the exact quality you need. So I mean these are things they might need to procure once, but they can continue to

I mean all of this comes within the context of Sora and where it got data, right, yeah.

Right.

We also have that viral clip of the open Aic saying, oh, we don't know where it was trained, but right, we all kind of know where it was trained, right, And I mean that's been Adoby's whole marketing pitch that we're going to try to do things the right way.

We're going to only use sources that we have true access to.

You're not going to get done in the courts. Basically, you're going to get sued.

You're not.

They literally say, yeah, if you get sued, we're going to be there with you.

We'll see you in court, we'll back you up.

Will that end up holding them back? Will that end up casting more than it needs to? It is yet to be seen. But that's at least their public message at this time.

Bloomberg's Brady Ford, I think you're always on top of it when it comes to Adobe, Thank you now. Open AI CEO Sam Outman has been working to build a global coalition among government and industry leaders to support boosting the supply of chips, energy and data center capacity that's needed to develop artificial intelligence technology. That's according to our sources and Bloomberg Shreen Gafari broke that story with me and joined me on set. This is kind of an

Now, just recap for audience what.

You and I have learned, right, So we know now that Sam Maltman has been in the UAE this week meeting with government officials, with investors, and the pitch is to build some kind of global coalition that goes beyond just manufacturing chips, but actually into also things like energy production, which is a huge and growing resource for them that they're quite worried about securing.

What's interesting here is the players. You know, we have some understanding that Sam met with UAE officials. G forty two is a name that gets bandied round, But do we know who's in this coalition so far?

So we know the pitch is that it's worldwide.

Sam is traveling to Washington, DC today right to meet with people on Capitol Hill, national security leaders, so we know that, you know, he's talking to US leaders as well, but we also know that he's talking to He has in the past talking to leaders of several Western countries and democracies, and so the pitch goes beyond just the Middle East.

For sure, it's going to resonate with law makers. It's got to resonate with the supply chain more sure. And we're seeing a lot of money being spent by the US government trying a law offshore chip makers manufacturers fabs ultimately coming from TSMC.

There's much reporting on whether Samsung is going to.

Be here as well.

Digging in deeper, how much is he talking to Corporate America and corporations more broadly as well?

Just because this doesn't happen even night right, I mean, I think this conversation is going to go beyond open an eye to other industries. I don't think you know, you don't want the pitch to sort of just focus on one company, but rather on building out the capabilities for industry as a whole. So that's what I'm under seeing the discussion to be at these times.

It's a brilliant reporting from both you and ED and we'll see what that conversation ends up looking like on Capitol Hill as well.

I'm sure you're reporting on that too, Sharon Guffrey. We thank you so much.

I meanwhile, coming up, pitch Book out with its latest report into the health of the VC industry.

May readging into the pitch Book analyst Kyle Stamford that's next.

This is Blue made Technology. Let's just talk about private markets a little bit. Fundraising they're in beginning of twenty twenty four met with some actual residual optimism, but that did not translate into meaningful growth in VC activity. That's all according to Pitchbook's latest Venture Monitor report, and it highlights the competition for capital remains a fierce two years into a slowdown, and while stronger companies might still be able to compel investment, the same is.

Not true for those that are kind of struggling.

Carl Stamford with please to say, leads US Venture capital research over at Pitchbook and joins us. And so it really feels like a tailor that haves and the have not. If you're an AI dialing, you're able to reap it in. If you're not, and you're not managing to grow revenue and indeed profitability and count yourself out.

Yeah, but I mean at some point that's where this market should be, right, I mean, we're looking at high risk investments, companies that should be growing fast, being able to get their their product and market and eventually exit down the line.

Fifty five thousand companies.

Are currently VC backed in the US market, you know, one hundred and twenty thousand or so globally. That's a huge number of companies that still are fighting through similar trajectory, similar sectors, and fighting for that capital that's just not there anymore.

Okay.

I am hearing and seeing things that the data doesn't show. For example, twenty four hours ago, we had Toyota Ventures on the show. They are a single LP fund granted Toyota, but they raised even more money from that LP to invest in physical stuff I'm hearing lots about funds that are being raised to invest in manufacturing industrialization. Why is that not showing up in the data?

Kyle Right, Well, I think first if you start with Toyota Adventures or these corporate LPs, they have a much different return profile or ability to get these different returns than a attraditional VC autritional LP might be looking for. Right, there's a return on products or ability to integrate new products into their cars down the road. As the attritional LP, though, they're looking for that cash on cash return, and we

Right.

They're looking for that capital would come back to recycle into new funds and new commitments and make sure that they're in all these vintage years. But if that's not coming back, there's just no way for these traditional LPs to get or to put money back into the venture market right.

Now, and you say traditional LPs, and it has been fascinating to see almost the domination of corporate VC in the area of AI, certainly compared to the venture capital arena right now. Who are a new guard of LPs that aren't corporate. Are we seeing bench capital companies managing to lure in different types of investors to secure their next funds?

Do you think the investor of the LP bas is going to always be wide ranging?

Right?

Pensions obviously are in that you sell CalPERS, read up their commitment and increase their commitment to VC or the last quarter.

I mean, corporates obviously are huge.

You look at the Japanese corporations and there's trillions of dollars on their balance sheet they're able to put into put to work in venture into new businicists. The large megacaps in the US as well, huge amounts of cash to be able to put it put to work, and we've seen that in some of their AI invest some

Kyle, it's been relatively exciting recently, relatively in the IPO market. You know Reddit as an example. Is there a relationship between upstream downstream? So when LPs and the firms that they give money to see activity in the IPO market, so they regain faith that actually putting something into a five or ten year horizon is a good idea.

I mean, I think relative excitement is a really good way to position Q one, right. I mean, those two IPOs were great, but there's seven hundred and twenty unicorns in the market right now or private in the US, or fourteen hundred globally. Globally, there's a four point eight trillion dollar market cap on these unicorns, and so a couple IPOs is great, but until those distributions actually get going back to LPs again, it's going to be a slow fundraising market. It's going to be a slow deal

Be many more.

And the M and A market again too, where a lot of these returns are also going to get generated, is non existing. Many of the deals we have from an M and A perspective this quarter were had no deal of value attached, right, so their immaterial to the corporate growth. And so that's a very difficult spot when you look at returns down the road.

Hey, Carl, let's tap into your relative excitement. What are you relatively excited about thematically? Subsector wise?

Sure, subsector wise, I mean, obviously AI is going to be the major area going forward. I think we've seen a lot of unique companies and you need this models getting started. I think It's interesting dynamic too, with the incumbents and Microsoft and AI and Microsoft and Google and Amazon being so heavy into it. I think it's going to be very quick to what we're talking about, the

You know, Tech in.

General, I think is still really strong. Even though it's a slow market. Like Karen said, strong companies are getting funded. There's money out there for these companies, and so tech is going to continue pushing forward in We like what we've seen, but it's in me a difficult market, I think for every sector down the road.

Carl Stamford, lead US Bench Capital Research Analysts at Pitchburg, Thank you very much.

More protection for teens on Instagram is coming now. The social platform, run of course by Meta, is turning to AI to blur out nude images sent via direct message now. Instagram announced in a blog post today that the update aims to protect users from unwanted photos as well as from potential sextortion scammers. This comes, of course, as US politicians have been continuing to accuse a platform of damage to youth mental health.

Let's stay with Instagram.

It's recently changed its policies for political content and it has caused a stir from some users. The move, which is coming during an election year, has prompted some pushback, with some like Republican Senator Marsha Blackburn even accusing the company of censorship. You're looking at the posts that she made on x Let's break it all down with el Rochford, senior data senior data and policy specialists with the Crime and Justice Institute, as well as Jess Natali, creator of

What is your response to it?

I mean, I think it's quite alarming and quite transparent, the timing in which this is being rolled out, and as small things like preparing people for the election, giving them the educational tools all the way to a genocide being documented on their platform. I think it's taking away the authority through people to consume what they want to be consuming, which is important information, it's news.

I'm interested in the academic perspective here, l because your PhD in sociology of the per dou you're focused on reproductive justice, on racial justice movements in particular. And I'm wondering if when ultimately Instagram is saying we are not trying to clamp down on what you have actively decided you want to watch those that you follow, but it's more people that you don't follow sort of suddenly getting into your.

Reels, into your streams more poorly.

How much do you think that this does limit, you know, ultimately, people not wanting to be bombarded with things that they do want to be seeing, or indeed, does it cut off an ability to see outside your own bubble right now?

Sure, I think that's a great question. Opting into seeing political content is a little bit tricky because a lot of users weren't aware of this future was being rolled out at all, so they weren't aware that this rollout would impact what they were seeing or not seeing.

But it seems a bit odd the selection criteria.

So social topics are being filtered out, but how is that being defined? Social media offers essential infrastructure informational infrastructure to users and so a lot of young people are getting their news from social media and this will impact what they're seeing and what they're not seeing, and they may not even be aware that there are things being filtered from their viewing.

So before we dig in with you all a little bit more about where the lines are drawn and where a blurry is to what is seen as political content. I just want to go to you, Jess, because your numbers just give us a breakdown. People who opt in to see your content because they want to be politically informed by you, are they seeing less of.

Your content on the back of this.

You still getting the amount of video engagement, still getting the amount of people who want to come and build up your profile.

Ultimately, there is absolutely a dramatic decrease and the people I'm reaching and the people who are engaging, which you know, those go hand in hand. Prior to this being rolled out, it was also there were censorship in place before this, and I want to make that clear. Instagram with the sensoring content well before this new rollout, but this has

Okay, well, I'm an Instagram user, Caroline's Instagram user. That there is the policy side, and then there's just the technology the platform, And I think many people would say Instagram is not a place you go for news or politics. Many would just say it's for entertainment value. It is to share what you're interested in from a passion point of view. That is an experience I think many people have.

Absolutely so.

I think there's also many people who would say they don't go to Instagram to see food content, that they're sick of seeing food blogs and recipes. Right, So, for every user who doesn't want to see political content, there are users who are seeking out political content and news content on Instagram. The perception that Instagram is not a

Their passion throughout. You're bringing both of your passions today.

L Rochford, of course, and Jess Nattel we wish we had along with both of you.

This is broom big technology