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Education Secretary Linda McMahon.
She is taking part right now in a Bloomberg Newsmaker event, and our White House correspondent A Kayla Gardner is speaking to her live already in progress.
Let's dip into that conversation.
I don't recall any particular senator or Congressman that congressomen that have had that conversation with, but generally speaking, they are all four being behind raising test scores, having better performance for the students in our country. But I think at this point I could probably honestly say that they're relatively thelely divided.
I want to talk about the headlines that we've seen from the administration. Obviously, several different agencies have revoked billions of dollars in funding to many private universities, including Harvard, Columbia, Cornell, Brown Princeton, which, if any, are on track to getting their funding back from the government.
The first university UH that we started this process with was Columbia m U. I visited with the then acting president, Katrina Armstrong UH on campus at Columbia, and we basically were starting our conversation relative to.
Anti Semitism activities that had.
Gone on before UH and that we're still continuing in in some ways, though some of it worth a little better. We that's how we began our conversation, But then we wanted to look at other aspects of UH, you know, the UH, the programs that they had on campus, how they were vetting their students. Did they believe that a lot of the uprisings on campus came from outside agitators or students that were on campus. What were some of the UH ways that they were managing.
Those activities on campus?
And UH, I think we have had really good, open, honest discussions. I've now met with the current UH UH president of Columbia UH twice and had a telephone conversation with her. I'm sorry, I've met with her once, had you telephone conversations with her, and I think we've made great progress.
Harvard's been a little more UH strident.
They responded to our negotiation outreach with a lawsuit and have amended that lawsuit once. Still hopeful that these things can be resolved, you know, through negotiations, and I think just sitting in and understanding what is really best for students that are on campus that they can be sure that they're in a safe learning environment when they're there
and not be afraid to go to class. But at the same time, we want to make sure if tax dollars are funding a lot of what is going on in the universities, those universities are abiding by the laws of the United States.
M do the universities think that they will get their funding back at the end of their negotiations with the administration?
Are they saying that they are or are they asking will they well?
Would the administration allow them to get that funding back.
That's part of the negotiations, of course, that we have that are ongoing. It would be my goal that if universities, colleges, and universities are abiding by the laws of the United States and doing what we're expecting of them, that they could expect to have taxpayer funded programs.
Do you think there's a chance that President Trump leaves the White House in three years and some of these schools never see that funding come back.
I would hope that's not the case. We're certainly trying to move much more.
Expeditiously what we've seen since we really began this effort. You know, it was kind of a hard hammer at first, and so we've now seen a lot of other universities who were starting to look at their practices and their programs and getting ahead of the curve so that they can report back sort of self monitoring.
Self monitoring is probably not a good way to phrase it, because.
We couldn't allow that at first, but certainly self evaluation, I think is a better way to say it.
You've talked about universities potentially supplementing the funding that they've lost with their own endowments or potentially other sources. Do you see a future where the government no longer invest research dollars into some of the universities that have very large endowments.
Well, I think, you know, our universities that do some remarkable research m And I think if we look at our research as for the public good, which I think that's intended, then uh, taxpayers I believe are willing to see them of their tax dollars, you know, support that kind of uh, really good research, and so that I would certainly hope that would continue at the university level.
Okay, I wanna ask you specifically about Harvard, because no school has seen more funding rev than Harvard University. The president recently said Harvard is starting to behave What did he mean by that, and is Harvard back at the negotiating table at this point?
Well, I, uh, I would never like to pretend to uh say that everything that the president says that I fully can translate for you. But I think clearly what he's indicating is that we are I think making progress in some of the discussions we're having, even though they have taken a hard line. They have, for instance, replaced their head of Middle East Studies. They have already put in place some of the things that we have talked
about in our negotiations with Columbia, for instance. None of us is suggesting that on college campuses there shouldn't be you know, there shouldn't be discussion. There could be orderly and nonviolent protests. I mean, college ought to be about the exchange of ideas and debate and all of that, but it has to be done peacefully. You can't have a protest, as the I think it was the president of MIT that I met with last week said, you know, you can't do a protest at two o'clock in the morning.
You can't be in the halls of the library and prevent other students from getting to the library to study. But there are places and time appropriate for peaceful protest.
This should be allowed, and I think we're all in agreement with that.
The RRS is reviewing.
Harvard's We're listening, by the way, the Bloomberg BusinessWeek and we are bringing you a special conversation Limberg Newsmakers conversation with the Secretary of Education Linda Mcmanonchee speaking with our White House correspondent Kayla Gardner.
Large endowments fifty three billion dollars for Hartford, and that money doesn't just sit still. It is invested, and if it's invested well, they can expect a good return on that investment. And so as the citizens of our country are providing tax support for those universities that do take federal tax dollars, then maybe some of that should come back to.
Our citizens.
Is the administration planning more actions related to Harvard University at this particular time.
We're continuing with the things that we've already talked about. One action we did take relative to Columbia m which to make their UH creditor aware UH that they needed to make sure that Columbia was abiding by the law of the land because they they had had an infraction.
It was the title six Civil rights. It's which was our position, and that they.
Should examine that because part of the creditor's position is to make sure that colleges are lawful, uh, or they can risk losing their creditation.
Did something change in your conversations with Columbia that made you send that letter because you have been talking so positively about your conversations with the president with the university generally.
I think one of the things that that made us take another look at it is just we're looking at accreditation in general mm uh, you know, for colleges and universities, because there has been some complaint about that that we need to expand the number uh that you know, when you think about the fact that all law schools are credited you know by the ABA, that's uh it it's like a a real monopoly, you know in some areas. There have been some times now that you could change.
Accreditors used to be bound geographically, but some uh changes in the rules. So as we've looked at a creditors, we wanted to make sure, Okay, let's make sure that we are touching all the bases that are relative to UH, how our universities need to comport themselves.
So you think other universities accreditation status should also be in question as well.
I I think we accreditors have a responsibility. It's built into what they're supposed to be doing. So we've reminded the Columbia creditors, and I think all accreditors now will will make sure that they are abiding by.
The terms of their agreements.
In that letter to Columbia, you talked about federal student aid. Is that something that you would consider limiting for universities broadly if you can't come to an agreement with them.
Ask me a different way.
I suppose do you think that the administration your department specifically should restrict access to federal student aid for universities if you feel like they're violating civil rights?
Well, I think the the certainly the American citizens and taxpayers would expect that if colleges and universities, I would believe and I've certainly heard, if their pact taxpayer dollars are going to those universities, UH, and that there is student aid coming for those that we would expect that.
They would abide by those You never wanted to buy by the law. Mm.
Uh and and and I think we if a university is.
Accepting federal aid. Mm. You know, we've obviously looked at that federal aid.
There's been reports that consent decrees were on the table with Columbia University. Is that accurate? Is that a tool that you would use?
We've uh discussed uh consent decree and uh, so our negotiations.
Have gone, you know, back and forth. Uh. That's you know, it's been part of the negotiations.
What we've seen it over the past couple of weeks has really looked like an all of government approach when it comes to higher education, whether it's take the State Department or HS. Can you walk us through how those decisions are made. Are you guys coordinating with each other? Are you speaking directly with the president before you take decisions?
Well, the President clearly has a a stated goal and gives direction. Uh, and we take that direction obviously. But there are parts of it. It hasn't all come necessarily at the same time.
Uh.
When there was a focus on international students and uh should we stop international students for coming here or taking a look at their visas and et cetera. The State Department took on that branch of it, uh, and the courts have reacted. I think it was UH yesterday the court said noe, that process, you know, needs to be reversed. We need to be allowing these students to come back in.
But let's we then say, okay, well, let's just make sure we're that we're conveying to these universities and colleges that as these students do come in, they need to know more about their background. Because when I've asked some of the presidents that I've talked to, do you think that a lot of agitation that's occurred on campus or are they Are they occurring with students who are going here?
Are there outside agitators who are coming in? Do you see it happening more with foreign students than domestic students? And so it's really important, I think, to have a
handle on that student population. And I think that's fair and also universities a little bit aside from students Specifically, universities are required under Section one seventeen of Higher Education Act to report on the amount of foreign funding they are receiving and where it's coming from, because we want to make sure there's no undue influence, you know, being levered, you know, against the United States.
So is it best to say that agencies are making these decisions independently or are agencies coordinating each other?
We have coordinated. In fact, we've had a task force. The first actions that were taken in with Columbia was with the task force, which was GSA, HHS and the Department of Education. We've also now brought in DOOJ as part of the process as well. So yes, there is a coordination with with the agency's Okay.
You mentioned international students. The President has floated imposing a fifteen percent cap on international students, specifically talking about Harvard University, but I suppose he could mean all universities. How would something like that work.
I'm not quite sure, but clearly, but Harvard's foreign population right now said about twenty seven percent. And we just want to make sure that I I I think the President just wants to make sure that we're looking at m that making sure that UH students in the United States aren't penalized by allowing too many international students, you know, to come in. And so what is that right balance? I'm not sure what it is, but the President certainly
floated fifteen percent. So let's see as we discussed that investigated how that plays out.
You're a former CEO, you came from the business world. Do you worry that less international students could make American companies less competitive?
I I think there is so merit and having international students be part of our university population as I as I mentioned earlier, or I might not have mentioned in this interview, but as we were talking earlier, I served on the board of University in Connecticut Secretary University for sixteen years. So I know that having international students on campus does does help with that cultural exchange. And uh,
we actually had a campus in Ireland. Uh from a sacred heart, So I I really understand that exchange and how culturally it's very beneficial. So I wanna make sure that we don't lose that. I think that's important for
us to have. But on the same time, Uh, if you think about just last week when it was discovered in the backpack of a a research student at the University of Michigan, these fungus spores that were intended to be utilized against our agricultural products, those are the kinds of things that we have to make sure that we are on guard against UH and whether whether that would be students with this country, But most of the time, I think that would have the provincity at least to
come in internationally that could destroy your crops in America. I heard from the Department, from the Secretary of Agriculture when she was saying, you know that these things are so dangerous because America feeds not only ourselves, but we feed the world. And if we are looking to destroy or we can our crop production here, it's not only for our food, for our health, but it's also.
Our national defense. So those kinds of measures.
I think we have to be very very specific and sure about.
You previously led this.
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To US Secretary of Education Linda McMahon.
She's taking part in a Bloomberg Newsmaker event with our White House correspondent like Kayla Gardners.
We'll get back to them right now.
As we first started to talk about dismantly the department, what functions would go perhaps to which agencies? He had asked about SBA, also about Treasury, We've talked about HHS, perhaps looking at the IDA program, But all of that is still part of discussion. It's not an assignment in any way, except that Treasury has taken back over the collection of student loans, as it always has done served in that capacity, So that's not new relative to Treasury.
The Reconciliation Bill has a lot of changes to federal student aid, and one provision in particular, ask you to basically place a cap on the amount of loans that people can borrow based on the program that they're choosing. Have you started to calculate what it would cost to have a psychology degree or an engineering degree.
I've not actually started that process yet, except in conversations. I know that Congress had started a lot of that kind of work and had done some research relative to what the mean cost was across country to take different courses and should lending kind of be based on that
media or that mean cost. And I think that is one of the things that I think it was Representative Fox who has worked so diligently to bring down the cost of college of one of the things that she talked about, And so that is something to look at, especially for students who can graduate so overburdened by debt and not really understanding that the profession that they have chosen could never give them the account the amount of income or at least the projected or the proven stated
amounts of income that they might receive to pay off that loan. And part of what we are doing with the restructuring of the FAFSA application for college is trying to work in some language eventually that will say this is what you could expect to earn relative to this kind of degree in program. This is what this college charge is for. This is what a different college would charge for. Put this into your calculus as to where you would like to go to school and have the
biggest ROI on what you're doing. I think those are really sensible measures to be taking and how to look at it, because so many students have no ideas.
I'll tell you just a little side story.
When I was running for the Senate in Connecticut back in twenty ten, and I went to a freshman class in college and I asked, I said, of all of you are in this class, how many of you have a student eight you know?
Ninety five percent? Hands go up.
I said, how many of you know how much interest you're paying on that loan? Maybe half the hands went up. I said, how many of you know the actual amount of the loan? Viewer, I said, how many of you know what kind of a job you would have to have and how much money you'd have to make to start repaying this loan.
Not a single hand went up.
So I think we need to provide students with better tools of assessing the value of what education they and do they need a four year college or are they better suited for some other kinds at community college?
Are we looking at our skill based education?
How does technology and AI play into all of that in their learning process? I think we kind of need to rethink, uh, in our whole culture of how we look at education.
Okay, my last question before return to the audience. Would you make those calculations public because it could affect what major students decide to pursue.
Oh, definitely, They'll be part of the public forum. And I think it's a that's a that's a great thing to share, uh with, you know, with anyone who's contemplating going, you know, to class and going to college or university or community college or however they decide to look at at their career. That's I think vital information for them to have and for parents.
Okay, so we're gonna go ahead and take some questions from the audience. If you could just raise your hand. We just asked that people's say your name an organization before you ask your question.
All right, I think we will jump out. Now. You can follow that event on live go on the Bloomberg terminal.
L I ve go to hear more from a Secretary of Education Linda McMahon talking with our White House correspondent A Kayla Gardner at a Bloomberg Newsmakers event