TotalEnergies CEO Patrick Pouyanné Talks Tariffs, US Investing

Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. I'm here with Patrick Pone.

He's chairman and CEO of Total Energies. And the amazing thing about Total it's a European energy company, but it uses its money from oil and gas to do stuff in power and alternative energy. That's a model that not a lot of other companies actually subscribe by. So it's great to get your perspective. Patrick, Thank you so much for joining me.

Thank you for welcoming me.

News of the day.

We just heard that we have emergency electricity issue in the United States. President Trump is now declaring fifty percent tariffs. I'm stealing aluminum imports from Canada.

Your reaction to a trade war, I think it's.

That I think these wars should I hope it's really head quickly. I think it's better not to have wars, to be honest. Maybe it's a tactic to nego sheet and I.

Think honestly, there are orders.

Economies are interconnected in facing in North America, you know, in many ways or cars or parts, et cetera, including by the way electricity. You know, of course you're the northeast of the US are receiving electricity from the idea of Canada for the benefit of the citizens. So there are a lot of issues I understand also about drugs, migrations.

It's not only about trade.

So my view is that as a global company, it's better to hope if you will take be solved quickly. That's all what I can hope in the benefit of all the parties. And like it was for Trump one, I remember it was a debate at the end. Maybe the shortest would be the better for everybody, including by the way, for the US economy.

Does it make you think two or three times about investing in the United States?

No?

No, because I'm an energy company. Energy you have it's a nice country for energy. You have the cheapest gas, you have oil. We can explore, we can develop in the electricity. Booming market of electricity. You need more electricity. It's gonna cost more now now, Yeah, but it's good to We can build gas plans, cheap gas gas five poor plants we are building also in Texas. We're in Texas today. I have five gigabets or solar plants.

It was easy to build because we have a lot of space.

Combining plants with greneway boards with gas plants, it's a nice way to produce more equicity.

So for me, the US.

Is a large market and we are ready to invest in the US.

I understand that.

The only point is that if we need to reshure, for example, all the solar panels that we use on our neway board fields, why not.

It's just a little more.

Expensive, so the customers will have to pay somewhere, not you.

But the end market.

Yeah, okay, but then let's just tackle say offshore win for a second shot.

I put it on a poolse.

A pause or like the garbage pine.

No, not garbage pause.

We got a concession for fifty years, okay, So I understand during the next four years, no way to obtain any federal license. So I don't want to spend my time to lose my time my team, so I don't need to spend paid money to spend money for that. So we say no, we put a pools, we have reduced our teams to minimum, and then for years we'll see if federal gold policies are changed.

Are you worried about any existing leases that you currently have and operating for wind and solar?

I was talking to the Secretary of the Interior who didn't who didn't rule that out? To do what to take away those leases?

To take away the leases.

But the leazes, you can manage that on federal lands, so I check. I have no leazies on federal lands. So and by the way, in Texas there is no federal lands or most.

So no that we make. We make our due diligence, So we are fine, okay.

And I think honestly when I discussed, by the way, LUNDMSK is a big fan of solar and batteries for good reasons, so I think, and we will see the debate. I trans choose the debate the Congress and the Senate would be interesting with the reconciliation.

Bill, so that's clue.

But for the time, I mean, we will wait to see what are the new fiscal conditions to develop solar in the US. But you know there are a lot of red states where we develop new way bores. And again what the priority for Trump administration. We want more electricity, for AI, for data centers, it's all of the above.

More electricity is gas.

It could be nuclear, but it could be also when you were boards with batteries.

So I'm optimistic. I think at the end, common sense in the US.

But observed at the end, business interests are always respected and you have a fundamentally, Trumps is very business friendly, so why not for energy, which is the core of all the program for golf.

Okay, so I'm optimistic.

Globally though, I mean, we're looking at starts taking a hit.

The sentiment's not great. They are worries about.

Recession, either in the US or elsewhere because of terrors.

Are using any indication of that?

Yeah?

But what because you know what people ate, it's uncertainty. What has been created is uncertainty.

We've all these started for us. So suddenly we don't like the markets. The stock markets do not like, but we don't know what we go.

So putting the carros is a nice way to negotiate. I can use it myself from time to time.

The biggest I'm.

Not sure obtaining the good reserve, but short coutts please, that's all. But the markets are saying to the administration we don't like uncertainty.

We are changing the world. Where do we go?

So I think the shortest will be the better for all the inter US, including fundamentally for the US economy. And I'm sure at President from Trump and his administration are very led by the un lf US economy which was not too bad in fact, so stuff is uncertainty.

But I think the best thing to.

Do in order to avoidization and things, which honestly is the US economy should.

Not get again now globally for China, for example, China puts a tear up on US energy that does directly impact your business. You're a huge gas and energy trader, so it does not impact.

I will tell you what, because the Chinese are smart if they choose that product is because it has a little impact. Because in fact, a company like Total we produce energy fourty million tons in twelve countries. So yes, my energy from the US will not go to China because there is a tariff, but I will use the energy from ketor from Australia to go to China. So in fact we made the analysis. The impact on China is very minimum, almost nothing.

And for you, honestly, today for.

US we are the largest exporter of US energy more than Telemyton's. Our primary market is more Europe today, so we are so we bring recent Europe, which is fitting by the way, effect exactly with the Trump administration policy to expand the business, the trade or to the trade with Europe food, energy and in particular energy.

What happens though, if there's peace in Ukraine and Europe starts buying Russian gas more.

We'll see. First we need to have peace Segle.

We need to see if Europeans will buy more Russian gas, any.

Indication that they might from here.

Where you sait, I think you know, it's not an easy It will be a debate between economy and geopolitics. Economically, for sure, Russian gas is cheaper, so it was part of the competitiveness of the German industry. Politically, I think is still will be a big debate to see if.

We take back some gas.

Yes we'll take some Russian gas, but surely not at the same level before the war. The other dependency from Europe to the Russian gas. I think this ere is over, we will be in between. Will not be zero, it will not be one of the fifty bcm per year, maybe half of it eighty And so that means that still we will need more energy after the peace when we were using energy.

Before the war. So for the US energy it is a going market.

And also you have Germany that's trying to pass money to be able to rearm and reindustrialize. What kind of demand you like, what's your opportunity set there if that really comes to pass.

But I think Germany is a very strong market for us. We love it because the Germans in anexicity. I've decided to get a non nuclear get off of course, so it will be a mix of gas plants. We need to build a twenty GigE out of gas for appretments and renewables exactly of strategy. So there is for We have invested in the last two years strongly in Germany to build what we call our integrated power business. So I think, yeah, Germany, and it's true as well, but we need to gain this hers.

We need to produce more weapons.

In Europe for sure, in order to be more independent somewhere. And because a message from the US is clear we need to take ourselves of future in our hands. So that's good for globally, for the economy, in the industry.

So what's on your m and A list right now? Yeah, you're going to buy something for that.

There's a lot of opportunity.

First, we have a huge organic growth. I have five percent in front of me for the next five years.

Now.

We have been clear that we want to in particular to build a larger gas business production business in the US. So we made so many ideas last year. Maybe there is more to come because I need to increase my gas production in the US.

But boltons or bigger deals.

Boltons is fine.

It depends opportunities, some matter of to make good m n as. It's good to become a cyclic or so I will not announce that today to you.

Over four dollars. Next time I need to, I have to wait. Okay, I get that.

Is this also a good time to get out of certain assets that aren't working for you? Say, is Bacomwerta maybe on the list?

Yeah?

We Last year one of our peers has done a very good deal. You know Argentina, we have the strongest gas producer in Argentina.

We have also some share all.

We are not very keen to develop the share all for different reasons. And so last year one of our piers has done a very good MNA. So yes, I'm ready to at the same price when one of our colleagues, I'm ready to divest my share old produce license in Argentina as part of the divestments.

But you know we have been getting close to that or not.

I don't know. We have processes.

Wells, let's go to one other area that I want to make some news. So Mozambique, El Gee. I know you've been working very very hard on that project. To get it restarted. You need approval reapproval from the US Import Export Bank for a four point seven billion dollar loan.

Has that gone?

I think it's for US in first this was approved under Trump one administration.

So it's a contract which has been signed. I just would like to remember.

And I believe in all of roow fundamentally the contract exists. What happens is that in twenty one we had to declare force measure because there was some security events. We had to stop the and so it's just a matter to amend this contract to put a new completion date in twenty thirty to reflect the fact that between twenty one and twenty four we are forced to stop.

That's what we want to be amendment. So it's not a big amendment. You know the debate. I think now you have a functional USXEM.

President Trump has decided to put in place a new board.

So we'll see, but I'm optimistic that.

Years, days, hours month.

Okay, I don't know, but fundamentally I think honestly, there is no more debate with his administration. The mandate of USXIB is to be neutral in terms of support. In fact, why USXM is supporting us because most of the contracts have been awarded to US companies, US contractors. This project represents sixteen thousand jobs in the US. That's why USXM

That's a good pat to You're one hundred percent component that might is going to come your way.

Yeah percent companies to send to that.

Patrick, it's a real pleasure. I love speaking with you. Thank you so very much for joining me. I really appreciate it. Package and a chairman and CEO of Hotel Energies