Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. There of course, remains a massive need for electricity, electric power, renewable power. Here, I say, as data centers sprout up out of the earth like weeds in this country. Enter Governor Spencer Cox's Operation Gigawatt. If you were with us a couple of months ago, you've actually heard about this project that aims to create a consortium and an ecosystem that will eventually bring more advanced nuclear power to states like Utah and
other states throughout the West. Operation Gigawatt to identify and assess sites for a potential advanced nuclear plant. They want to have that sited and chosen by the end of this year, by the end of twenty twenty five, so construction can begin in the year ahead. You heard our conversation with Governor Cox and the CEO of valor Atomics, and we have a different in individual from that future ecosystem who is with us today alongside the governor. First,
let's introduce Spencer Cox, the Governor of Utah. It's great to see you, against sir, welcome back to Bloomberg TV and Radio. And Chris Levec is with us as well. The CEO of Terra Power, which is working on an advanced nuclear reactor that would be cited in Utah. Gentlemen, I'd like to ask you both about how all this is going to work and Governor why we're in fact adding another name to this list. What does this mean today to reaching that new level of power in Utah.
Well, you set the table very well.
Operation Gigawatt is about doubling the energy production in the state of Utah, something that we need. If you care about economic progress in our country, if you care about national security, and if you care about just prosperity in general, we have to in the environment. If you care about the environment, you have to believe in nuclear power, and
we do. And so we are setting up that ecosystem so that the private sector will have the opportunity to bring the latest inventions, to bring the best technology to bear. And terror Power is one of those technologies they're building right now, and the only construction nuclear capabilities happening in
our country is happening with terror Power. We're so excited to partner with Chris and his team, and we truly believe that what President Trump has been talking about in the Oval Office today is going to happen right here in Utah.
Chris, I'd love to hear about what you are working on at Terra Power, because it's a little bit different than some of the other nuclear technology that our viewers and listeners are probably used to. Natrium reactors are your specialty that use liquid sodium instead of water as a coolant. Does that make them safer or more dangerous?
Well, it certainly makes them safer and more economic as well. Thanks for having me, Joe, and thanks to Governor Cox really for your leadership with Operation Yegowa. And of course we already heard that the Trump administration is providing very strong support for nuclear and advanced nuclear energy, which is the form that Natrium takes.
You know, I've spent my whole career.
In nuclear energy, beginning in the Navy, and this is an industry that the US created decades ago. It provides twenty percent of our electricity. But the fact is the US had fallen behind in the last few years. China and Russia had many more new builds than US, And with leadership from folks like Governor Cox, we're now prioritizing
and advanced nuclear energy. It is very important for us to move to new technologies like the Natrium reactor because they will be cheaper and safer than today's plants.
Today's plants are quite.
Safe, but if we look at a massive upscale, it's really important for us to move to the new technologies. China and Russia certainly are. The natrium reactor is still a fission reactor. We break uranium atoms to release a lot of heat and boil water to make steam and drive turbines to make electricity the old fashioned way. But by cooling the reactor with liquid sodium, it allows us to have a low pressure plant, which is going to be safer. It's going to require much less steel and concrete.
Another really important feature of the reactor is that we have built in energy storage, and this is going to be really important in the Mountain West where you do have quite quite a bit of renewables that you have to balance out, and built in storage allows us to boost the energy output of the natrium reactor throughout the day as the wind and the sun come and go, which is a limitation of renewables.
So natrium is.
A great balance to that. We're so excited to announce with the State of Utah and with Flagshift companies today memorandum of understanding to examine UTAs sites for natrium deployment. So we'll be looking at, you know, multiple sites in Utah for their potential to host a natreum reactor. As Governor Costs mentioned, we're already in the state of Wyoming building our first reactor there. So we're very happy.
To be in the Mountain West.
All right, Chris Well, I mean, that's a heck of an elevator pitchon, Governor, We're talking about some pretty esoteric technology here, using gravity and thermal convection to enable passive cooling in this natrium reactor. Last time you were on with this, Governor, you talked about a whole different approach to these small size, micro scale reactors. Do you understand you becoming an expert on nuclear science or are you just calling the smart guys to do the work?
Well, well, a little bit of both for sure.
In fact, just last week I was at MIT with one of the nuclear physicists there having these very conversations and that's the thing. We're betting on all of these technologies. And truly, as Chris mentioned, the United States did lead the world when it comes to nuclear technology and then we made a very bad decision. We decided basically since nineteen seventy five, the year I was bored, that we
weren't going to bet on nuclear. The rest of the world has moved ahead of us, and that's a huge mistake. Right now, as we are in an energy arms race. You mentioned the data centers and AI arms race, and we have to win. We can't lose this one. But we don't have to compromise on safety either. We can do both of those things. And the way you get
better with this technology is to start building it. That's what we haven't been doing over the last fifty years is actually doing the thing that we know we can do. We have the best scientists, we have the best innovators in the world, and Utah is betting on them and the country needs that desperately right now.
Really interesting, Chris, Let's say you get a site by the end of the year, that's your plan, by the end of twenty twenty five, how long would it take to have a natrium reactor up and running.
Yes, Joe, we could mobilize a site shortly after that because we've made a lot of progress with the Nuclear Regulatory Commission in licensing that first plant in Wyoming. Uh, then we're we're looking at about a three year construction duration for for natrium reactors, which is which is much shorter than today's technologies that require all of the steel and concrete. So it's yet another reason for us to
move forward with advanced technology, you know. And I do want to point out we're not only supplying you know, AI and you know, important energy security demands in the US, but you know, with leadership of people like Governor Cox, we're also saying, if we can prove out this technology here, you know, we can then export the technology where uh, you know, nations that are hungry for electricity are inevitably going to be shopping for nuclear and we need to
offer a US technology, uh, in competition with with Russia and China. Who will be who will be peddling nuclear energy around the world.
Governor there's a headline in Washington today that the EPA is pulling almost sixty two million dollars in solar grants from the state of Utah. Does that make your life more difficult when you're pursuing it all of the above strategy.
Well, it definitely doesn't help. And look, we are in all of the above state. We do have an immense amount of sunshine here, and we want to take advantage of solar for sure, and solar with batteries. But I just don't think most people comprehend the amounts of power that are going to be needed, that are needed right now.
Look.
Look, the entire state of Utah runs on about four gigawatts of electricity. We have one data center campus that would operate on four gigawatts of electricity. I mean that's that's over one hundred years worth of electricity production and development in the state of Utah. And they need that kind of power right now. So we need all of it. We need the solar, We need the coal that is still burning in Utah, the cleanest burning coal anywhere in
the world. We need the natural gas. Unfortunately, we have a lot of that too, and we have to bet on nuclear, and so that's what we're doing. We can't do nuclear overnight. It is going to take a few years, but we can certainly increase that time, the production time, the development time, and then actually getting that product out to consumers. We been short sighted. There is an abundance of energy out there. We're the ones making decisions to hold that back. Those decisions are now changing in a
bipartisan way, and I'm so happy to see it. I'm so happy to hear blue state governors that are talking about energy development again in ways that they haven't in the past. Let's not make these false choices. Let's work on the solar side, let's work on the nuclear side, and let's get it done.
Well, that's a really interesting answer. I guess these grants sixty two million dollars worth. They're a little more than a year old. This goes back to May of twenty four. Would you ask for these grants to be restored and what does it mean for people paying their bills each month?
Well, look again, we'll look at those grants and what each one of those was for.
I'm going through that review process right now.
We do know that there was money that was granted that is going to be spent on things that aren't going to help in the long term. And if we can divert that money in a way that will get us a better product, that will get us more that will again help to lower prices, that's all I.
Care about right now.
I think it's a mistake to get in these fights where we're denigrating one technology over the other. We should again be trying to lift all of these technologies because they do all play a role, and certainly solar is going to play a role in Utah. It is right now and it will continue in the future, but it can't be the only role. We had one administration before that was trying to stop us from using the technologies that we have that exist now with coal and natural gas.
That was a terrible mistake.
I want to make sure we don't swing the pendulum too far and start tearing down other technologies that are going to help us well into the future.
I hear you, well, I don't know who you're going to show up with next Governor, but I really appreciate the conversation. Spencer Cox, the Republican governor of Utah. Chris Levec, president and CEO of a company called Terra Power. Check it out. These new reactors they're working on might help to answer some of the questions that we've been asking about power in the United States.