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I'd like to pause for a conversation about Africa this morning. Nigeria's economy grew at its fastest pace in three years at the end of twenty twenty four, after a period of some turbulence and economic slowdown. GDP in fact grew by three point eight four percent in annual terms, led by the services sector. But as all prices look set to stall this year, Nigeria is looking to plug the
gap with international trade and foreign direct investment. And to our guests in the radio studio this morning, delighted to welcome YUCF Tuga, who is the Minister of Foreign Affairs of Nigeria on a visit to the UK today. Of one, welcome to you alongside our Bloomberg reported tiwa Ada Baio
for a conversation about Nigeria this morning. But of course we have to speak firstly about the geopolitical flux that we are in currently, President Trump reversing US support for US, putting tariffs on allies, reshaping in many senses the Western axis. Where do you think, Minister, that Nigeria's place is in this new world order?
Good morning, morning, Nigeria's place is first and foremost, sitting on two hundred and seven trillion cubic feet of gas, so it presents opportunity for US as a destination for big tech, for AI data miners. These are things that consume a lot of energy, and energy we have and we've always maintained the position that having a reliable and affordable source of energy is something that should go hand in hand hand with the energy transition, and that's what we've been working on.
Minister, Thank you for joining us. We're just talking about the rich resources in Nigeria and in the continent of Africa as a whole. But last week at the G twenty meetings in South Africa, notable absences were senior Trump administration officials. Do they recognize the potential of Nigeria and of Africa?
They do. I believe they do because there are US IOCs in Nigeria. Chevron is there, Exomobile is there, and Nigeria and the US have maintained good relations, close relations since the inception of Nigeria since Nineteis we became independent in nineteen sixty, so they're not oblivious to what is going on in Nigeria. We're currently also working on two
significant gas pipelines. We have the African Atlantic Gas Pipeline that would see Nigerian gas delivered to Morocco via almost fifteen African West African littoral states and then possibly onto Europe via the magrab line. And then we have the Transaharent Gas pipeline, also through the DJL onto Algeria and possibly to Europe.
Given that history of long cooperation, then were you disappointed not to see them at that G twenty meeting in South Africa on the continent.
Well, they were not present, they had a representative there. I believe there was a shaget affair from the US embassy in South Africa. So I mean these things happened. You have summits where China doesn't show up or Russia doesn't show up. But it's not to say that in the US no longer has a vested interest in matters that affect the global economy. But more importantly, we want to see Nigeria also in the in the G twenty speaking up for the global South, for Africa, for Sub Saharan Africa.
But that is the question mark, isn't it?
Now?
Around the Trump White House, the concern that actually the priority is on economic ties, you know, perhaps to the deptment of security issues. And I was listening to one of your speeches last week. You were talking about the need to respect sovereign states, the need, for example, for a two state framework in Israel, and girls is the United States still a reliable partner for you?
For US? The US remains a reliable partner because we have never been focus exclusively on multilateralism and lulling ourselves into thinking that national interest was normal, or the Westphalian state system was no longer in existence because of multilateralism. They go hand in hand. It's always remained there. So it's if you like the diff between realism and constructive constructivism, and they've always existed side by side. And that's why I suppose this was a wake up call or rude awakenic.
But it's a reality check and we must get on with diplomacy, with state craft and work around things. But that's the beauty of democracy as well, because we have term limits, we have changes in policy, and when we lose elections, we go back to think tanks and hone our skills and our policies and come back. So that's geopolitics and the international system is an anarchic system and it always will be.
Just on that point of the changing face of geopolitics and particularly around diplomacy, you say that the election of Donald Trump has been a wake up call or reality check. Do you see that potential changing your approach to diplomacy, particularly around Nigeria's relationship with China. There's been historically deep economic ties, particularly in relation to infrastructure, but we've just seen this morning the US has doubled tariff levies on China.
Do you see that changing your relationship with China? Will you have to tread more carefully?
Perhaps, no, we don't. Nigeria is a fearless country. Nigeria's foreign policy has always been guided by moral precepts and ethical conduct, and we were non aligned and now the fullconm of our foreign policy is strategical autonomy. So it's more or less the same thing. So we look out for our national interims interest but at the same time, we're responsible citizens of the world and we make sure we work with others and we don't allow anyone to dictate to us who our friends should be.
Okay, have you seen a drop off in support from allies, including the US and UK when it comes to domestic security issues, if we can talk about that for a moment, including military support for the fight the battle against Bocohr Arm for example. Is there been a drop off in that sort of support.
No way of not. We never had US troops in Nigeria, unlike some of our neighbors. We never had UK troops in our neighbors, and unlike our neighbors, so we continue to collaborate with them. We always had a problem with the Leahy law. We weren't being sold equipment and we have resorted to besides sourcing it in other countries, we're also looking to manufacture produce so that you know, we go back to that strategic autonomy I was speaking to. So we're not like some of our neighbors that had
them their presence. And it was Nigeria that led Ecomogue to resettle Sira Leone, it was Nigeria that led Ecomogue to resettle Liberia. We actually succeeded in peace building where others actually failed. And some of the failures that we're experiencing today in the Sahel have to do with the fact that Nigeria was not included. Nigeria was not part of the G five Sahl Operation Barkhani eus Hell strategy.
In terms of the guest pipeline, want to go back then to the economics of it. How big do you think that that business is going to be and how reliable will that be? If you're trying to get that pipeline into.
It's going to be huge. We would look to attract US investors, European investors.
Chinese on this trip that that might happen.
We have brought it up, discussions ongoing. We have a platform further discussions with the United Kingdom. We have what we refer to as strategic partnership that covers different sectors. So that is something we're going to pursue further.
I just have to ask you, minister, since you're in the UK, on the question of the Beneath bronzes. We had recently that the Netherlands are planning on sending back over a hundred Beneaen bronzes. There are supposedly nine hundred just in the British Museum alone. In your discussions with UK officials on your visit, is that something you've raised and is it something that you want to see those Beneen bronzes returned to Nigeria.
Well, certainly it's something that our mission here, our Embassy, our High Commission, has been working on and has been discussing with the British authorities. I know the subject very well because as ambassador in Germany I worked on the return of one three hundred and twenty eight bill in bronzes from German public museums. So it's not easy, and especially in a country like the United Kingdom where and France where the laws were changed or made specifically for
that to sort of preclude the return. Okay.
So that on the bid involves is in terms of you're here to forge greater alliances with businesses in the UK to try to attract inward investment and especially into the tech sector in Nigeria. What is the kind of growth potential that you see? What are the sorts of noises that you've heard from businesses here about those sorts of business ties between the two. What's the kind of biggest hope that you've got.
There's a huge potential in business process outsourcing because it's for us, it's a growth area and we see it also as a panicier to the irksome debate between the two countries to do with irregular migration because we have businesses. In fact, I came along with one of them that is on the lookout for for for Nigerians with with British accents to recruit in her business. In her bp
O business. She is also working on expanding her remote learning business aspect of the business because we have seen a reduction in the issuance of visas to Nigerians to British universities, and we know that the British universities are quite keen on having Nigerians because they continue to grant them admission, but they can't get enough visas. So remote learning might be an alternative to that, so long as it would be properly structured, accredited and all of that.
Okay, thank you so much for being with us this morning. We have to leave it there, Yusuf Tuga, as Minister of Foreign Affairs of Nigeria, but we thank you very much for coming in person into the radio studio and just giving us some of the details of your trip to the UK some of the main priorities for Nigeria alongside Bloomberg reported tia Adebayo. Thank you so much for your time,