John Bolton, I'm sure has some ideas about this though, and it's a great pleasure to have the former National Security advisor with us from President Trump's first term. Former US Ambassador to the United Nations and founder of the Foundation for American Security and Freedom. John Bolton, Welcome back to Bloomberg TV and Radio. I know you have strong feelings about this, and you've been around the block when
it comes to Venezuela in the first term. Can I just start by asking you if you think the administration acted correctly last weekend.
Well, I think it was the right thing to do to begin the process of getting the Maduro regime out of power and turning the government of Venezuela back over to the people. There's no doubt that in twenty twenty four, as in twenty eighteen, Maduro's stole the election, the opposition had won legitimately and really are the legitimate government of Venezuela. But I think we've removed Maduro, but the regime is
still there. There's no regime change at this point. Very concerned that the way the president attacked Maria Corrina Machado, the leader of the opposition, said she didn't have respect in the country. Really the opposition wasn't up to governing and turning to the likes of Delsi Rodriguez and really Maduro's henchmen and hench women who are still there and believing they're going to be a transition. It puts us
in a very difficult position. I'm worried that we've removed the face of the regime, but not the regime itself.
Right, Yeah, Well, to that end, I know that you had concerns about Maduro in the president's first term, and we did a little bit of digging on this. Having had sat down with Maduro, my colleague Eric Shatzker in twenty twenty one traveled to Caracas to talk to him about global politics, and Maduro said at the time he was in talks with the first Trump administration with you, John Bolton, around a meeting at the UN General Assembly
in twenty eighteen. Maduro specifically implicated you as having canceled that meeting. Listen to what he told us in twenty twenty one.
I was about to personally meet him on September twenty eighteen, was President Donald Trump. When I went to the UN General Assembly in New York. We got a call from the White House. But we knew about John Bolton's pressure and that of other people around Donald Trump to prevent his attempt to meet me. If we had met, it had been a different story.
Today, John Bolton, Is that true And to what extent, if so, did that moment inform Donald Trump's views on Venezuela today?
Well, I wish it were true. I wish I wish I could stop meetings like that that easily. But he's making that up. But it's a good story. So if he wants to believe it, let him tell that to the Court.
And Master Bolton. If we're looking at what is going to happen next here, there's a lot of different messaging, a lot of different rhetoric. We hear from President Trump that the US is going to run, But if we look at what other advisors are saying, we keep hearing the idea that there's a lot of leverage points here by the US, the embargo on oil, the military armada
poised still potentially pointing at Venezuela. Do you think that the US is enough leverage to make change in Venezuela from Afar through these kind of pressure points.
Well, I'd like to know what the plan is. If that's what they think they're going to do, I'd be the happiest person around if the rest of the Maduro regime collapse tomorrow. But when you hear from the administration the usual anonymous sources that they think they can work with del Rodriguez to transition to something, I don't know what the something is, And that the Venezuelan oil industry is just going to emerge from the ashes and suddenly be a big producer again. I think people are dreaming.
I think this is a very difficult and dangerous situation. I think that the administration has acted in a ad hoc, day to day fashion that doesn't guarantee failure. But let's be clear. If the objective is to turn Venezuela into a society where it's people actually govern it, and maybe that's not Trump's intention, but if that is, they're a
long way from it. And anybody who thinks the Venezuelan oil industry is going to emerge from the ashes in a matter of weeks or months or even a couple of years doesn't know how bad the situation is.
So then what is it going to take to help fuel that turnaround because we have reporting, As we mentioned at the top of the show, people familiar telling Bloomberg News that part of why this White House thinks that it can work with Delsea Rodriguez is because she could serve as that bridge between the government and the private sector.
Because it seems like there has to be such an emphasis on potential investment and rebuilding the infrastructure in order for Venezuela to get on sound economic footing.
Well, I don't know what they base that on, and I'd like to know. So what CEO of what major American oil company is just getting all of his top advisors together to get on a plane to go to Caracas and put billions and billions of capital expenditures into Venezuela. The political situation is unstable. By the way, the price of oil is still at fifty five to sixty dollars a barrel. I'm not sure anybody thinks that more capital investment, more drilling, more oil on the market is going to
benefit the oil companies at this point. I think there's a lot of hot air out there about what's going on, and that's dangerous because if you're planning is not based on reality, when reality finally strikes you have no plan B to back up to.
You mentioned Maria Karina Machado. She turned up on Fox News last evening, of all places, on the Hannity Program, presumably to get the attention of Donald Trump. Here's what she said.
I'm planning to go back to Venezuela as soon as possible, as I've always seen Sean every day make a decision where I am more useful for a cost. That's why I stayed in hiding for over sixteen months, and that's why I decided to go out, because I believed that at this moment I'm more useful to our costs being able to speak out from where I am right now. But I'm planning to go as soon as fossil back home.
She's talking about sharing her Nobel Peace Prize somehow with Donald Trump. Could she be a partner or has the administration turned away from her permanently.
Well, I think they damaged her and the opposition very badly on Saturday. I think the opposition just ordinary people inside Venezuela. I wonder what it means when the US doesn't trust its leadership. Now, maybe she can work her way back into his good graces. My recommendation would be giving the Nobel Peace Prize medal that you get. The Nobel Foundation can make another one just for you, but give it to Trump otherwise you know what he's going
to do. Theodore Roosevelt won the Nobel Peace Prize for me war between Russia and Japan during his term as president, and his Nobel Prize hangs on the wall of the Roosevelt Room and the White House. I've been worried recently Trump's just going to take it off the wall so he can have it for himself. So Missus Mashadow gives him hers. Maybe that'll take care of that.
Wow. We also want to talk about potential ripple effects here, what could come next when it comes to other countries. And I'm actually particularly interested about the potential impacts for China. Of course, a huge importer of Venezuelan crude. But China's made a lot of significant inroads when it comes to Latin America, signing on signatories to its Bell and Rode infrastructure initiatives. Could this hurt Beijing's efforts to make those
inroads in Latin America? How is this changing the calculus in terms of the US Beijing competition.
Well, I think the most important American strategic interest in Venezuela is the increasing influence of malign foreign powers that don't have the best interest of the United States at heart. That certainly starts with Russia and Cuba. That was the main problem back in twenty eighteen and twenty nineteen. But Iran and China are big players on the sea now, and as you say, China has an enormous concern with Venezuela's oil reserves and its production. The Chinese look for
oil wherever they can find it. They're an energy poor country whose economy depends on getting these foreign sources, and by most estimates, including the estimates of the US government, Venezuela has the largest oil reserves in the world, more even than Saudi Arabia, and yet it produces an insignificant amount of oil. Of that oil it produces, China buys about eighty percent of the production, according to the most
recent statistics. So I don't think Beijing is going to sit idly by while a new government comes in that may be more hospitable to American investment and possibly exclude China from from the Venezuelan reserve. So what China is doing behind the scenes, we don't know. There were high level Chinese meeting with Maduro literally within a day or two of his being grabbed over the weekend. And what policies China is pursuing, what aid it may be giving
to what remains of the Maduro government. What Russia and Cuba and Iran are doing, we don't know, But I don't I don't think they're just going to withdraw quietly from the scene.
Well, you know, as we consider what many are now referring to as the Dunroe doctrine, John Bolton, I wonder who you think should worry more right now, Greenland or Iran.
Well, it's it's I think I think Iran should be more worried, given the protests which continue to grow all across Iran, not just in Tehran. This regime in Tehran is very weak, UH, and I think the levels of discontent in the country have never been higher.
UH.
And the world would be a lot safer if the regime of the Iatolas fell and you could get some kind of alternative, hopefully free government in Iran. I think what Trump says about Greenland and his interest in taking control of Greenland very harmful to the NATO Alliance. You know, Greenland,
part of Denmark, is a NATO ally. Denmark has been an ally of the United States for years, and you have advisors to the President saying on national television that Denmark's claim to the island is illegitimate and nobody will oppose American force if we decide to use it. If we did, it would destroy the NATO Alliance. But even this chatter is irresponsible. Isn't taking into account the real threats we face in the United States. We have a
legitimate security interest in Greenland. So does the entire NATO Alliance. And if we just took this out of the spotlight and work cooperatively together, I think we could ensure greater security, not just for Greenland, but for the entire alliance. All Right.
John Bolton, former National Security advisor in President Trump's first term, former US Ambassador to the United Nations and founder of the Foundation for American Security and Freedom. Ambassador Bolton, thanks so much for joining us here on Bloomberg Television and Radio.