Jimmy Kimmel Talks ABC Suspension and State of Late-Night TV

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Thanks for being here.

I know it's been a weird few weeks, has it. Yeah, I can sell. I want to start at the beginning, if we can.

When I was born. Yes, it was in a manger.

Well, so since you brought it up, we're going to talk about everything that happened. Have you listened to this AI podcast about your life?

No? I found it doing some research.

They have an AI voice that just narrates that The first episode is your life until you get hired on ABC, The second episode is your career at ABC until recently, and the third episode is very recent.

We can fact check it.

Does it have the details of my divorce? No, but it does have a line. The Kimmels weren't wealthy, but they weren't struggling either. They were in that sweet spot of American middle class life where dreams seemed achievable and laughter came easily around the dinner table.

It's pretty spot on. This AI is terrified. How long after the.

Initial episode where you made the comments about the assassination of Charlie Kirk the Monday episode? Yeah, did you realize there was a problem.

I didn't think there was a big problem.

I you know, I just saw it as distortion on the part of some of the right wing media networks, and I was I aimed to correct it. I have problems like all the time, and it's kind of funny because sometimes you think, oh, this is not a problem, and then it turns into a big problem.

And then sometimes it goes the other.

Way where you think like, oh, oh, this is gonna be a problem nobody really notices. And so at what point did you realize this was a problem. I think when they pulled the show off the air, Well, that's unusual.

Yeah, And what were the conversations that Data and Bob that led to that.

I hate to disappoint you, but they were really good conversations. I'm not actinking, I mean really really good conversations.

They are.

These are people that I've known for a long time and who I like very much, and who were you know, who wanted we all wanted this to work out best. And I will tell you like, I mean, first of all, I ruined Dana's weekend. It was just NonStop phone calls all weekend. But I don't think what I don't think the result, which I think turned out to be very positive.

It helped me.

Really having those days to think about it was helpful.

I have a dumb question about this as someone who is kind of reporting on it in real time, trying to figure out what's happening. So the show goes up there, you have all these conversations, and when you made it or when you all made a decision put the show back on the air, as my understanding of the time was, it still wasn't exactly clear what you were going to say.

I think just the spirit of what I'm going to say rather than specifically what I was going to say, And I think that's something that we all agreed on and I think that ultimately, I wanted to kind of cover every base if I could, and sometimes you can do that and sometimes you can't do that. And it was something really that had to come from inside me. It had to be truthful, and I had to lay it all out there and just be honest about what

If you felt like your initial comments had been mischaracterized, I didn't feel like it anywhere It was intentionally and I think maliciously mischaracterized.

Yeah did you?

I mean, do you feel like you have become more political in your commentary on the show over the course of hosting it.

What do you think? I think?

I think if you talked to me when my first interaction with Timmy Kimmel was the man yeah, yeah, yeah, which is you and Corolla at this point, as best I can tell around and complete opposite ends of the political spectrum, but still friends.

Yeah.

Yeah, and it's you know, it feels like you became far more comfortable and insistent on talking not just about politics, but about personal things. Maybe because you got older, maybe because you've got more comfortable in the role, Maybe because the world around has changed.

All of those things. Yeah, all of those things, for sure. I think maturity is part of it. I think you figure out who you are. I think that when I started the show, I was mostly my homepage was ESPN dot com. It's kind of all I really cared about was We've been a radio sports guy. I've been a sports guy. I did football picks on Fox NFL Sunday for years.

In radio, Yeah, I was on k Rock with Kevin and Bean.

I was mostly interested in sports, and I was interested in politics. I've always been a you know, even as a kid. My parents are very liberal. I've been a Democrat since I was a little boy. I think the first like political cartoon I ever drew was of Jimmy Carter and John Anderson. You know, It's like I was like twelve or something, and I've always been interested in politics, but I was never a particularly political person. I also think maybe maybe he did, but maybe he didn't have

That we're in now.

And also my job, as I see it, is to talk about the news of the day, and these are the big stories of the day pretty much every day. And how much of that, Like, can you see a difference because we're in Trump too?

Do you feel like it was.

The need to talk about politics is greater when he has been president as opposed to when other people, like, cause you started when Bush was president, then you had Obama, Trump, Biden Trump. It does feel I think they've got more political over time. But do you think it is also sort of a I don't want to use the word quirk, but a facet of Trump and his relationship at the media.

Yeah, I mean, he's on TV all day every day, so he gives us a lot to use to deal with. You know, that's unusual. That's not how it used to be. You occasionally get a video of George Bush, like walking the wrong way on stage, and then you'd make a week out of it, you know, or or somebody trips.

Or something like that.

But now it's just you hear him, you see him, you He's just presented himself so frequently at it makes it.

It's just more digestible, and.

It's more digestible and less digestible at the same time. Right, do you feel like you interact with a lot of comedians.

Do you think there's there's some.

Writers and comedians I've spoken with who feel like comedy has actually been harder with him as president. What you just said is, in a way, it's in some there's more material to work with. What would you say his impact on comedy has been.

Well, is there more I don't know if there's more material, it's just more focused in one area. I'm not a stand up comic. I know, for stand up comics, you know, they work out their material and they do mostly that material every night. So politics change so quickly, it doesn't necessarily lend itself to that job. For me, I've always been more interested in doing new jokes every When I started on the radio every day and doing new jokes every night. I don't love the idea of repeating myself.

They don't.

You don't have to do this, I choose to do it. Since you came back, have you asked Trumper Car to come on?

No, I haven't.

I wouldn't necessarily be interested in Brendan Carr on the show, but yeah, I'd love to have Trump on the show for sure.

Yeah. I mean, I feel like he knows that he wants.

I don't know, all right, I'll ask him.

I'm curious about it.

You had avise I'm sorry on this week and you asked you pressed him a lot on the Rio Comedy Festival that a bunch of Commis went and did do you ask someone who interviews for a living. Did you give him a heads up you were going to ask him about that?

Yes? I mean, you know how talk shows are.

We basically understand there's an understanding of what you're going to talk about. Sometimes it veers off into various directions, but you always they always know basically what the topics are going to.

Be and why.

I guess did you feel as important to ask him about that because you had a point of view on comedians going to that festival.

It seemed like you were against it.

I wouldn't have gone, but I wanted to hear his reasons, and I thought he had some compelling reasons. And it's nothing's black and white. It's not something I would do. But I do understand the idea that if we close ourselves off to the world or we isolate somebody, that maybe it's not good. I don't know that my my reasoning is the correct reasoning. I also, well, you know, we see it, and we see it happening in this country too.

I mean, we travel abroad.

Many of us don't want to be held accountable for what our president does and says.

As an American you know, going someplace.

I'm fortunate enough to be well known and people know where I'm coming from. But I think it would be a different situation if people didn't know who I was. And I think I'd probably be the first thing i'd say as I got into every cab is I didn't vote for him?

Just FYI? You know? So I do think.

That there's you know that kind of makes me understand, right that position?

Better? Have you done a paid gig for a desk? It is that? Let me think Bill Gates once.

Yeah, that's two Bill Gates references.

And okay, and I would kill him in tennis. No, No, I would not kill him in tennis. He would kill me in tennis.

But you have But because you've interviewed so many, do you, is there like a dream guest you've never had that you still really want to have.

Yes, I would love to have Banksy on the show. Yeah, that's my dream.

Guess. Okay, some people have Daft Punk, you have Banksy.

Yeah, you brought up you brought up Colbert earlier.

You've spoken out a little bit. I think learned about the coverage.

You feel like CBS or someone is putting numbers out there about how much money easily thing and you think that can't be possible.

Why is that it?

Because it just doesn't make any I know what the budgets for these shows are.

I know what I make.

I know what Steven makes, I know what the ad sales people make.

I know that there are.

Values that nobody bothers to consider, like the affiliate fees that have to be you have to account for a portion of that when you talk about an hour of television every night, five nights a week. So I know that it's it's not forty million dollars. It is the show losing money that I don't know. I can't imagine it's losing a lot of money if it is, So what.

Is the ballpark? The budget for these shows these days? One hundred and twenty million dollars.

And so I may make about that much, a little more, a little less. Yeah, I mean, you never really know, you know, because how much?

How much?

How much do you attribute the affiliate fee to your show versus every other?

Well, I don't know what.

The specific affiliate fees. Each market has a different amount that they pay. But I also know this, I know that if we're losing so much money, none of us would be on.

That's kind of all you need to know. I mean, he's not on.

This is not PBS, you know, so yeah, well, yeah he is not on. But if they lost forty million dollars last year, they would have canceled it already. Yeah, they would. They were sent everyone home. Okay, so you set me up for that one. Your contract is up next, may I believe?

Yeah? Are you going to stick around past that? Well? You know, it's funny.

I often answer that question and then I do the opposite of what I said.

Previously said this is going to be my last one.

A few last three contracts, I said this is the last one.

So I've learned not to say anything anymore.

Because it upsets my staff, and it's best that I just you know, when I make a decision, I will make that decision. Okay, since we're not going to get into the decision. Have you made a decision and you're just not ready to talk about it, or you haven't made a decision, Well, that would kind of say that I'd made a decision, right, So I think I'd just rather.

Rather not talk about it. Let's imagine a world. I'll tell you when I decide. Okay, all right, I appreciate it.

Let's imagine a world after the show, because there will be a moment after the show. Now, I don't know when you don't know, you don't think. I can't imagine that the world is going to go on without me?

But go ahead.

Have you given any thought to what you'd want to do after it? Your friends at Ted Sarandaz, you could go on Netflix, your friends with Bill Simmons, you could do a podcast, not trade one.

I mean besides playing Bogle on Netflix. I find Bogle on Netflix. Yeah, I've given a thought, you know.

I because I thought I really was going to leave, like nine years ago, or whenever I said.

I was going to leave.

I started a production company, and I'm interested in a lot of things.

You know, I have a lot of ideas.

Most of them are not good ideas, but some of them I think are really good ideas, and they're not just television related. I have a lot of different projects that I'm interested in. I'm just like, I just what's when you're really well, I'm working on a show with Mark Rober on Netflix, and I'm working Tube for those who don't Yeah, Mark rovers the YouTuber your kids know who he is.

If you don't know who he is. I've got a.

Sitcom with a guy named Chris Destefano's a very funny comic. I've got some really some other projects that are not television related that I can't necessarily talk about yet, but I think are going to be really a lot of fun and hopefully successful.

You mentioned talking about it being the end. I was curious. I didn't ask you earlier.

Was there ever a moment in that kind of the week or two of chaos where you thought your show was never going to go back?

Oh?

Yeah, yeah right, I did because and I'll tell you why. Because you know, I'm a troublemaker just by nature. And I my first year, the Lakers beat the Pistons in the NBA playoffs and I said something to the effect of, well, I hope they don't burn Detroit down.

And everyone in Detroit was very unhappy.

This was the four Finals that the Lakers ended up losing, but they want a game maybe in Detroit.

Yeah it was a game, all right, right, No, you're right, but I said that, and people were mad and they pulled me off the air in Detroit, and a guy who's really been like. My mentor at ABC, Alex Wallow, said to me, he said, you know, if we don't have Detroit, you you're done the show.

The show's over.

And I said really, and he said, yeah, you can't go forward without a major market like that, which was news to me. So I went to Detroit and did the show for a week there and kissed as much ass as I possibly could. But the idea that I would not have whatever was forty affiliates, I mean, knowing that Trunker, I was like, well, that's it, because there seemed to be a list of demands presented to me that and I was not going to go along with

I said to my wife, that's it. It's over.

Did you see that thing about the number of people who canceled Disney Plus?

Because I did. Yeah, you think that's real? I hope. So, I don't know.

I mean it gave me a feeling of power that I've never had before.

You brought up YouTube, which I think a lot of people would say has been sort of one of the primary sources of the down fall of Late Night.

Our last little.

Bit, how have you changed your show to kind of appeal to people on YouTube, and why do you think you can't make more money there.

I never have changed my show to make it for YouTube. I'm very conscious of the fact that ABC pays for the show and YouTube pays nothing, and YouTube gets to sell it and keep half the money. And that's quite a deal for them, it really is. But I've never made the show for YouTube. With that said, I love YouTube and I love being on YouTube because all you really want, deep down is for as many people to

Now.

I know that it has hurt the ratings not just for our show but all of the shows. And maybe that's kind of what has killed late night TV. More likely the fact that we have our lead ins are a tenth of what they were when I started.

That's probably more likely the reason.

But I love the idea that people in other countries are watching YouTube. I love the idea that do you look at the views for your I do, yes. I looked recently, and I was alarmed to see that the most watched video from your show had fewer reviews than the average Mister Beast video. And I don't know what that says about the state of the world, but I think it says mister Beast is kicking ass, is what it says. Yeah, well, you know what, there is a

We still have you know, you know it's probably a three and.

A half million right now, We'll still have five six million people watching the show every night.

That's a lot of people.

I mean, that's more than most of the primetime show, right, And you know, all hear that about primetime ratings.

Get kind of covered in a weird bit, Like you talked about two point two million views on YouTube, right, And the metric for review on YouTube is totally different from the metric for a view on TV.

Right, you watch it for thirty seconds.

Big Talk is three seconds. I think YouTube is thirty. You have to watch it for at least thirty So.

We have YouTube comms, right, here if you want to and TV I think is like.

A five minute chunk that you have.

It's usually the average number of people watching it over the full course is what the rating that gets reported.

We had Greg up here.

Why do you think that topical comedy thing has never really worked on Netflix?

I don't know.

I think maybe people are expecting something different.

People are very regimented. Yea.

You know, when we started our show, we wanted to we wanted to do everything different. It was like, Oh, we're going to do this and this is going to be different. That's gonna be different. Over the years we realized, oh, they just want to see a desk and the guests and a band and don't fuck around with it. It's it's a great format. It's it's Steve Allen invented it fifty some years ago and it's exactly as it was then.

For a reason.

Yeah, do you feel like, I know you're not part of the decision making process on this at all, but do you feel like there will be like the Tonight Show would be the last show to get canceled?

I would assus yes, I think so.

Do you think that that show will last a really long time? Or do you feel like eventually all these shows go away and have to get reinvented and whatever.

I think there's I don't think there's a reason for these shows to go away. I think there are different there are ways. You know, it started out. These shows started out because it was there were a way to get high priced talent for almost free. That was the whole trick. That was the whole reason they started these shows. It was deemed to be promotional. So the idea that these shows need to cost one hundred and twenty million dollars crazy don't need to cost one hundred and twenty million dollars.

And somebody will figure it out, and.

Just that's like what a hot Ones is makes the similar concept for considerably less money, right Yeah, I mean I think you could still have the same format. You can still have a band, you can have all of those things and still do the show for a lot less money. It's just the people aren't going to make it. The host is not going to make as much money, and audience isn't going to be as big.

But that's okay, because I.

Mean I love seeing these you know, I love the idea that people can make a living with two hundred thousand viewers every day or every night, and they can talk about weirdly specific things, and those people who are really interested in those weirdly specific things have a place to take those to absorb that stuff.

I think that's great.

I love the idea that a sixteen year old can have their own TV show. What is the weirdest channel you follow on YouTube or TikTok? Not on TikTok, I do not put that on my phone. I follow let's see on YouTube. Well, weirdly, my eight year old son, he adds subscription to our list and there suddenly were like eleven Jesus channels on my thing? Is this kid a priest or maybe the Messiah? I don't know what it is, but yeah, that's the weirdest one on our list.

Okay, I have one last question for you. Who's going to be the next CEO of Disney? Oh?

I'm never mentioned in this right and nobody ever, I mean, like there are never any serious discussion. Well, I will just say I wasn't. Actually, it will be very foolish for me to answer that question. But I happened to love Dana Walden very much, and I think she's done a great job, and I think what has happened over the last like three weeks I think was very unfair to my bosses at Disney. I don't think anyone should ever be put in a position like this.

It is insane. And I hope that.

We drew a really, really bold red line as Americans about what we will and will not accept them. I really hope that that's what comes out of all of it.

That was not actually my last question because I did not think you were going to answer it, but I appreciate it. I guess related to that, if you could give you talk about how comedies change, if you could give one piece of advice to an up andcoming comedian when you are an up and coming broadcaster, when you see those people and you see the changes in media around you, what do you other than like follow your passion?

What do you tell them to do?

I would tell them what I didn't get to do when I was a kid. And sometimes I fantasize about just starting all over again, because what I had to do when I started in radio was hang around the radio station for like three years, and then they let me on a little bit, and then they let me on a little more and then when they thought I was funny, they let me on more. But it took so long for me to get on the air and to learn to do the job that now I would say start doing a podcast or a youth start a

This is great. Thanks for doing that. That was advice for you. I appreciate it. That's