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The EU is looking to potentially loosen fiscal rules to reallocate funds to defense. What is your take on that? How far should it go?
So the European Union is already a very significant contributor to the defense of Ukraine and to the security of their economy, but you're right, there's now an intense discussion under way regarding how we confer the contribute to that defense and security, and the first phase of that is within our existing budget rules, what flexibility can be used
to allow countries to increase their national defense expenditure. The Commission President flagged this as an option there around a week ago, and the Commission and ministers are now working together to understand precisely how we would make this happen. But it appears to me to be a very reasonable and sensible way of addressing the need of how we can better fund Europe's security.
Do you think this escape claus though, should be part of the discussion or are you concerned potentially about this.
While we're talking about flexibility inside the existing rules, and the reason this flexibility with Buddin was to deal with risks, was to deal with difficulties that could grow in scale. So I do think it is appropriate that while maintaining our budget rules we look at how they can be used to deal with an issue that is, after all existential our security and the future of Ukraine.
So you don't think it's unreasonable, then I wonder how you feel about the US and asking europe to rethink their own contribution to defense as.
Part of you, well, we're already aware of the needs to increase our own defense expenditure. In Ireland, for example, we've now been significantly increasing our expenditure and defense and security. We're in neutral country, but we know we need to invest in our own security and we are planning to further increase that spending in the years ahead. And many of my colleagues within the European Union are on the
same path. And even though the US point is obviously very important given their gigantic contribution to NATO, we're aware of the need to do this anyway because of the way in which the world is changing.
You said further increase over the next few years. What are you look in that potential?
So in Ireland, for example, we've a plan to get our defense expenditure up to one point five billion euro. It is increased by thirty percent since twenty twenty.
And if I look at.
Other colleagues across the European Union, they're now looking at what the further increases are that they need to put in place.
The level of that increase does.
Very country by country, but I'm certain in the very near future you'll see those spending plans go up reflecting the challenge we now have to confirmed.
Do you think there should be a certain type of financial instrument that should be decided on when thinking about this, we've heard a few different countries maybe potentially tinkering with different ideas.
Do you have an ideal mechan So I think it's inevitable that different options will be looked at, But I think our first portal call should be what we can do at a national level while maintaining financial stability and maintaining the integrity of the budget rules. And the main reason why I would make that point to you is that's the thing we'll be able to do the quickest.
We are going to, no doubt look at new instruments, look at at debate regarding how we can fund our future better, but all of that will take a little bit of time, whereas we know at national level we can do more, and how that can be coordinated better at an EU level is also an important debate we need to.
Have and Minister I imagine as part of the discussions here there's a lot of talk about tariffs and the potential effect on your own individual economies, but also as a block, what have those discussions been at this point between you and your.
So the vast majority of countries who've been participating in these discussions have some very clear messages trade. While of course it brings with many different challenges, trade in inside a rules based order remains the see good best way in which we can lift national economic performance and global economic performance while also strengthening our safety nets looking after citizens.
Are times of big change and therefore any attempts or any moves that can bring in tariffs really do have the potential to harm trade, harm jobs, bring up prices, decrease investment. And while we very much understand why this has been done on the table by our colleagues and friends in the US, of course we want to negotiate with them to see our their internative ways in which we can deal with the issues they're raising.
Do you worry about individually as a country, Ireland potentially getting caught in the crossfire of this, especially if you consider the trade situation between the US and.
So any small, open trade intensive economy, the Irish economy, and many other ones that are here. Of course, we are concerned about the effect that a change in global trade and the broad application of tariffs could have our national economy, and many other ministers will feel the same.
Have you expressed that to your US counterparts here? I mean the US counterpart is not here, but.
The official Oh, there are US officials who are here who are hearing those different messages from many, many different countries. We are in a fortunate position where we have a current high level of strength within our national economy. Our economy is growing, we have a record number of people at work, we have many different engines of national economic growth.
But our concern is a global one.
Anything that really begins to change how global trade happens that we believe will be mutually harmful, and we would prefer to work together to get the agenda towards something that can be mutually beneficial. Recognizing the serious issues that many countries are raised in on behalf of the people they serve.
Are you optimistic though, considering a lot of the confluence of challenges that are going on right now we're talking about some of what you've heard this morning.
Well, I always make the case for optimism. I always believe we can make progress. Of course, I have to acknowledge that we are facing many, many demands and difficulties at the moment. We're all aware of what they are, the debates of regarding global trade, what could happen with tariff's, the effects of wars. But I really believe that our South African friends and hosts here today have reminded us of the value of the G twenty and how collaboration and dialogue can still.
Play a vital role.
And many of us, including Ireland and Europe, are all in on us and want to play our part in finding the opportunities and dealing with the really severe challenges we know exist