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Talk about these geopolitical issues.
You said, I was joined on set here on the Pulse with Vice President former Vice President Mike Pence.
We thank you so much for your time. Welcome to London. Thank you, thanks for having me on. It's a thrill to have you well.
As my colleague Francine just said, it's a big day in Washington today. We have crown friends Mohammed ben Solman coming and visiting President Donald Trump as well. This is a relationship that's really deepened over the last couple of years, and certainly since his trip to May, to riot in May as well. What do you make of that deepening alliance between the United States and the Middle East.
You would think that these are two places.
That would be in competition when it comes to the oil markets, when it comes to defense, we're seeing the opposite.
What do you think, well, I think it's important to remember the very first days of our administration back in twenty seventeen, President Trump's first the international trip was a conference of Arab nations in Ryant. From very early on, we sense that it was important to begin not just with Saudi Arabia, but to reach out to Arab countries, even while we stood without apology for our most cherished ally Israel. I mean, we moved the American embassy to Jerusalem,
we recognized the goal on heights. Many said that would be inconsistent with peace in the region, But what they forgot was that President Trump, in our four years together aggressively reached out to Arab nations at the same time we isolated Iran, which is a leading state sponsor of terrorism in the region, and at the end of our
four years signed to the abraham of Courts. And my hope is as MBS comes to the White House today that in addition to the other issues that I'm sure we'll be discussed from a standpoint of AI and energy and others, is I am hopeful the President will engage the Crown prints very directly on the need for Saudi Arabia to lead other nations into an expansion of the abraham A Courds.
Well, to your point, that's the keyp pillar of one of the successes in the first administration under under Donald Trump. You mentioned that key piece of the kind ofwithstanding support for Israel. Donald Trump talking earlier this week about actually selling f thirty five fighter jets to Saudi Arabia. As you know, this has been a contentious issue, especially among several of the Middle Eastern allies there. Do you think
this is going to have ripwull effects? If you sell F thirty five jets to Saudi Arabia, are more going to be knocking more other nations going to be knocking at America's store?
And is that a good thing?
Well, the F thirty five is our most advanced aircraft stealth technology, and I'm very confident that as the President gives consideration to the sale of F thirty five 'sf to Saudi Arabia or any other country that will put the interest of America first. It's extremely important in any sale that we ensure that technology does not make its way into China's hands or into hands of other adversarial nations.
And so I have concerns about the sale of F thirty five's to Saudi Arabia or any nation that could not assure the United States that technology and the great advancements that we made with the F thirty five don't fall into the hands of nations that are hostile to our interests.
You're not alone in those concerns.
Have you seen this before in your time as Vice president, the sale of this high technology one of America's finest the countries that maybe don't rise to the ranks of some of the other closer allies.
Well, I think one of the things that our administration did in our four years was recognized that China is the greatest economic and strategic threat facing the United States, and we imposed historic tariffs on China. We brought China to the table for the Phase one trade deal, which
you may remember from January of twenty twenty. But I have concerns with the administration allowing TikTok to continue to operate despite the fact that Congress and the previous administration passed the law saying it must be sold or banned within a set period of time, and the recent arrangement to allow Navidia to sell significant chip technology to China to simply an exchange for a revenue sharing agreement with
the United States. I think it's absolutely essential that we continue to put the security of the United States and our ability to defend our interest and our treaty allies across the region. As China continues its military provocations and its extraordinary investments in its own technology, and that would be my concern with any weapons sailed any country around the world.
Well, Vice Presidents continue our tour around the world and talk there about China and the relationship, the deepening relationship it seems with normally Russia, but India as well.
Earlier this year, we.
Had images of Vladimir Putin, Arendromodi and xijingping arm in arm at the Shanghai Cooperation Organization. I was in Washington at the time, and they really caused shock waves in terms of this axis that you are seeing on the other side of the ocean, on the other side of the Pacific. Do you feel like those images, as they were interpreted at the time, showed that the United States is losing its dominance on the world stage.
Well, I think there's no question that nature of whoors a vacuum, and that's equally true on the world stage. And the previous administration in so many ways protected weakness on the world stage. The disastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan. The Biden administration actually after inflation, actually cut military spending in the United States, and particularly after Afghanistan, we saw Russia launch its brutal and unprovoked invasion into Ukraine.
We saw Hamas.
Surge across the borders of Gaza with the most brutal assault on the Jewish people since the Holocaust, and we've seen China continue its military provocations across the Asia Pacific. When we were in office, we spoke about what the new Trump administration speaks about, and that is peace through strength. And I think the relationship between the United States and our allies across the free world has never been more important,
and trade is a part of that. I would hasten to add that I believe in free trade with free nations, and the President's unilateral tariffs imposed on friend and foe alike, I think have been contrary to the long term interests and prosperity WES. We ought to be working always to lower trade barriers and lower non tariff barriers and subsidies. That's what we did during our four years. We use tariffs and the threat of tariffs to negotiate to open markets.
What we're seeing in this new Trump administration is the use of broad based tariffs that I think ultimately harm US consumers, harm growth, but also more profoundly, they really threatened to fray longstanding relationships in the free world at just the time that we need them stronger than ever before.
Well, Vice President, they're also being used as a mechanism not only to encourage free trade, but also to add pressure on countries like India, like Brazil that are perhaps helping and fuel fueling some of the goals in China and Russia as well, especially when it comes to the United States' relationship and defending or at least helping support the fight for or the war Ukrainian's efforts and against
the war from Russia. Talk to us a little bit about that relationship and that dynamic when it comes to the European Union and the UK as well. Historically Europe and the United States have been arm in arm, but when it has come to this conflict, at least in the second Trump administration, we do seem to be seeing wobbles in that steadfast defense. Donald Trump has on the campaign trail and of course in this year, promised and assured the global community there would not only be a ceasefire,
but a lasting agreement. Based on his friendship with Vladimir Putin. Why has that not come to fruition in your minds?
Well, Well, first off, I've been a steadfast supporter of US military assistance to Ukraine. I mean, Russia's unprovoked invasion has cost hundreds of thousands of lives, and America is the leader of the free world, and it's absolutely essential that we continue to uphold the principle that we will not allow authoritarian regimes to redraw international lines by force.
A century ago, we looked the other way as authoritarian regimes marched across Europe and the world inherited the whirlwind and the tragedy of World War Two, and so I think it's important the United States continue to stay firm. I'm pleased the Trump administration has gotten to a better place after, as you said, stops and starts on support
for Ukraine. But I do think the time has come for the United States Senate to put strong secondary sanctions on President Trump's desk, Sanctions on countries that are purchasing energy from Russia, that are literally, through those purchases, they're fueling the Russian war machine. I called on that this summer, and frankly, I was encouraged that just a few days ago President Trump said that he was okay with the secondary s actions bill. Senator Lindsay Graham authored, I think
Vladimir Putin will not stop until he is stopped. The Ukrainian military has fought bravely. The European community, with strong leadership from the UK and America, have provided support. But at the end of the day, I think isolating Russia economically with those secondary sanctions could well be the key to moving us toward a peaceful settlement and a just and lasting peace.
Vice President, you talk about these secondary sanctions Europe. The EU has only recently put sanctions on Russia. There's still parts of the EU that are importing that kind of energy. Does America need Europe to hold Russia accountable? Can America go at it alone? That's the narrative that Donald Trump has taken when it comes to his negotiations at the Munich Security Conference at NATO.
Can America do it alone?
Well, you know, in my first trip to Europe in twenty seventeen, as Vice President said, America first does not mean America alone. It simply means America embracing our first obligations at home and secondly, embracing our role as leader of the free world. And I believe during our four years we actually strengthened our alliances across NATO. Before we left office, at the end of four years, our NATO allies were investing one hundred and forty billion dollars in
our common defense that had not been invested before. More than two thirds were now living up to the commitment we've made to our common defense. I think the ability the European community has had to support Ukraine against this Russian invasion was greatly enhanced by those years that we
strengthened NATO. But look at a time that we see authoritarian regimes rising and increasing their provocations, whether it be be Russia or whether it be China or Iran, as they languish quietly after after their the America taking down their nuclear program and Israel taking the fight directly to them, I think now more than ever, we need to bring together the free world say that we're going to stand for our principles, defend our interests, and we'll continue to call for that.
All right, Vice President Mike Pence, we thank you so much for your time.
A true tour around the world,