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We're watching out of course for any more news on the EUUs trade talks. But another big event is happening here in Brussels today. The European Commission due to present its plan for its next seven year budget for the EU, which will be worth well over a trillion euros. It's the start of a long political process that we'll have
far reaching consequences for the EU's future. Joining me now in studio to discuss that and more as the EU's Commissioner for Democracy, Justice, Rule of Law and Consumer Protection, Michael mcgra Michael McGraw, Good morning, Good morning, Stephen Bloomberg Radio. Now, you have a very large portfolio, as your job title attests too, but I did want to just start with that issue of trade, where of course waiting to see what might happen on that front. Can a deal be
done by the first of August? The time is ticking away now.
Yes, I believe it can. We have two weeks ahead. I think of intense negotiations. It is in everybody's interests that there is a deal, that we achieve trade peace, and that we secure a stable turn of trade for businesses on both sides of the Atlantic. This is the most important trade and investment relationship in the world between the EU and US. It is unquestionably mutually beneficial, supporting millions of jobs in both the US and the EU.
These are challenging, complex negotiations. We were surprised and disappointed to receive the letter last weekend flagging the possibility of thirty percent tariffs because the negotiations had been progressing well overall, and we remain focused as an EU on the substantive discussions because it's a big prize if we can secure an agreement and we can do what we do best in the EU, which is export goods and services all over the world, and we want to give our businesses
the certainty that they need so that they can make decisions in camera waters Now.
I mentioned as well the YOUU bodget so the Commission proposal due to be published later. I know you can't go into the details of what's going to be in that unfortunately, but as a former finance minister, I wonder how you view this process and how difficult it's going to be because there are a lot of pressures financially on the EU repaying the debt being some of that as well. Is this going to be a very difficult budget negotiation?
It will, and it's certainly a lengthy one, as you alluded to yourself, because the current multi annual financial framework runs to the end of twenty twenty seven, and in the EU you have a lot of stakeholders. You have the twenty seven member states, you have the European Parliament.
The Commission will make the proposal, and it is being framed and challenging circumstances with the capital repayments on the COVID loans next generation EU beginning to be repaid from twenty twenty eight, so that does place additional pressure that could be twenty to twenty five billion euro every year. So that's the first call on the budget as such, and we have to consider what our appropriate new own resources.
Where the EU will seek to raise additional revenue, we have to have an understanding of how much the member states are also willing to pay in and also then decide on the level of prioritization across a whole range of different spending programs. Ultimately, the adoption of a multi annual EU budget is subject to unanimity among the member states. So we need every single one eventually to sign off and approve it, and then it's subject to the consent
of the European Parliament. They face a yes or no question and at the very end of the process, so yes, I think two years of tough negotiations ahead. Today is a significant day though, where the Commission agrees. Hopefully later on this morning, I'll be going to the College meeting directly after this interview, and I hope that we will be in a position to agree the draft budget that the Commission can propose.
Okay, now you have previously spoken about using the EU's budget as a way to improve rule of law issues in the EU, which is a key part of your own portfolio. What would that like? Is this cash for reforms?
So at the moment we do have rule of law conditionality built into the budgets. To be fair, the last Commission, the Member States and the Parliament all work together to build a pretty strong toolbox in the area of rule of law. But I think we have to learn from the lessons of recent years we have worked that remains to be done, as you will have seen in the rule of law reports to be published last week for every single country of the EU. There are challenges, there
are outstanding issues. So we have been examining and considering what is the best rule of law architecture within the next MFF, and I think you will see changes. It's no secret that we are moving towards national and regional partnership plans, so we do intend to build in by design links to reforms as part of those plans, and that will include the funds.
Hasn't really worked. I mean there's been billions frozen, for example, for hunger for many months now and there's no progress, as your report allated to in addressing some of the concerns the EU has. I mean, how much stricter do the rules need to be?
Well, I think we need tools that are more agile and flexible so that we can respond more quickly, and also so that member states are absolutely clear what the expectations in relation to rule of law are and I think they really should have no excuses on that front. EU law takes primacy. We have our Charter of Fundamental Rights,
so the requirements are clear. But we are now going to build in by design into the new MFF a set of architecture that I think will give us a very good prospect of achieving better compliance with rule of law, which isn't an optional extra It's a core obligation of EU membership. And we have a set of tools currently that I think can be refined, can be improved, and can make a positive difference.
Later today, you're going to be speaking to businesses about the ease Data Protection rules the GDPR. You've already come up with some proposals that will ease some of the burden of those rules for small businesses. What sort of further changes could businesses expect on that more simplification.
We are looking at this through the lens of simplification. I really want to hear from businesses, but other stakeholders too about what their practical day to day experience of GDPR is. GDPR is a global standard set by the EU. It is also treaty based, and we have an extensive amount of case law within the European Union from the
Court of Justice. So for me, the question is, can we achieve the same very high standard of protection of personal data but in a way that is less burdensome, or in a way that can be simplified for those who carry the obligation. And I want to hear directly from all of the stakeholders about their experience. No doubt they will have many ideas. We do need to be careful because the protection of personal data is in our Charter of Fundamental Rights. It is a key pillar of
the legal a key within the European Union. That will remain the case. But can we do it in a way that eases the burden and companies and others. That's the question that we'll be seeking to answer. And today is an important milestone because we'll have what we call an implementation dialogue and we will then reflect on what we have heard and consider whether we can frame proposals in that regard.
Is there a risk that by making changes to GDPR that you're seen as perhaps following a lead that's coming from the US in terms of weakening protections in many areas as well? Is that a concern that when you're making changes that it's not seen as being following a lead that's been taken by the US in this area.
We don't intend to weaken protections. I can be crystal clear on that, because it is a core right of EU citizens and we have to defend. Didn't stand over that and It's also the case that the EUS GDPR is the basis of a lot of international agreements and
adequacy decisions. So with the United Kingdom, for example, we have a set of adequacy decisions which means that we recognize the standard set in each other's systems and that allows for data flows, and that set of data flows then underpinned trade, supports a lot of very good work in the criminal justice area. Similarly, with the US, we have an EU US Data Privacy framework, so if you pull one thread, it can have wide ranging consequences. That's
why we need to be careful. But there may well be opportunities for simplification achieving the same goal but in a way that's less burdensome. Is a repetition, for example, that we can eliminate.
Is that agreement with the United States that you mentioned, though MEPs have highlighted their concerns over the future of that after President Trump's inauguration and his decision to fire several individuals involved with overseeing transit antic data transfers. Are you worried about this? Does the privacy shield as the agreement is now need to be reviewed as a result.
But we have received very strong reassurances directly from the US administration of their commitment to the EUUs Data Privacy Framework, including from the Attorney General Pambondi. When we had the EUUs Justice and Home Affairs Council meeting in Poland just a few weeks back, and further back in March, I would have met with Andrew Ferguson, the chair of the Federal Trade Commission, had a good discussion with him as well.
In both meetings, I would have underlined the importance from the EU side of the US protecting all of the safeguards that underpin that EU US Data Privacy Framework, and they receive such assurances. Of course, we continue to monitor the situation.
Is there a review of that tale underway?
We have our own obligations as well that we have to continue to uphold. There isn't a formal review of that framework. It continues to operate. We monitor developments and we are also defending in the courts within the European Union a challenge to that agreement.
Also, just staying with that issue of data transfers as well, the Irish Data Protection Commission recently had a fine for tech talk about data transfers to China. Does more attention need to be paid to the Chinese side of that equation as well and how EU personal data is being used in that country.
So the national data protection authorities are completely independent and they implement the data protection law within their own country, but increasingly they do so in a coordinated manner through the network of data protection authorities around the EU. And I think that their conclusion and their finding in that case was very clear and set out exactly what the obligations are in relation to the transfer of data.
All right, Michael McGrath, the EU's Commissioner for Democracy Justice through a long consumer protection thank you very much for joining us in our Brussels radio you doing this morning