Apple and Google both lost big legal battles with the European Union. For Apple, it was over an EU ordered Irish tax bill of over fourteen billion dollars. Google, on the other hand, lost its challenge to and over two billion dollar fine for abusing its market power in the search business. Both cases were among the biggest competition cases in the EU's history. Following the rule in Bloomberg's Max Ramsey spoke with EU Competition chief Margaret Vestayer.
Two huge victories. What does this mean for you personally? What does this mean for European citizens?
Well, I think it's a very important step towards tax justice that Apple now actually have to pay the thirteen billion euros to the Irish States. I think that shows European citizens at actually, once in a while, tax justice can take place. And it's important to me as well. I'm very very happy with this win.
I can totally imagine and I guess you know, we never start thinking about what's next as well. You do have a fourth case against Google and the ad tech business. I think I'm right that previously you've suggested a resolution to this could be a breakup. I mean, do you see that as the resolution that's going.
To need to happen. Is that the only way forward on that case.
Well, of course it may be that we are not, you know, using all our imagination, but the thing is that there is an inherent conflict of interest because Google earns the marketplace, it earns the seller, it earns the buyer who uses this marketplace. So it's difficult for us to see any other solution. Of course, reopen is but the case is very very advanced. So yeah, let's see what decision we can reach.
And then, I mean, looking back over the past ten years, You've been in this role as the head of the competition for for ten years. In that time, you've had huge cases, You've had, you know, huge pieces of regulation that have you know, caused times pushback, particularly from big tech companies, from former president on the Trump. How have you dealt with these kind of sometimes fractious relationships you know yourself personally.
Well, I've tried not to make it personal because I think it comes with the job. You need to be able to do a job. Also when people do not agree with you, also when people are aggressive towards you, because otherwise it's not possible. And of course also my responsibility to push because the world is changing. So you know, we look at a lot more now at innovation. In our cases, we lose innovation, can innovation be enabled? So it has been a process of renewal and I think
that is really really important. Also when people disagree with you that you try to push on and.
The world is changing, I think is very interesting to bring up because of course we have had this report from Mario Drugi, We've had previously the report from Enrico Letta, and there is talk, you know, even harder push from others around loosening state age rules or you know, allowing more mergers to kind of boost European companies or create European champions.
What do you think of that? Do you see risks in that approach?
Well, I think from what I have read so far in the Dwagi report, actually he calls for ending temporary state ed rules. He's asking for a prudent state aid approach, but for more European approach, which is what we have in what we call important Projects of common European interests. We have ten of those projects, a total of private
and public investment more than one hundred billion euros. So I think that is a very important push because we have faced the acute crisises of the pandemic, war, energy crisis, but the slow crisis of you know, the eroding of our competitiveness is something that needs to be phased head on. So I really hope that the Drug Report, the Letter Report will make us focus making the single market work, have more people use their talent, have capital made available
for businesses who want us to scale. So I think it's a very important time of the European Union to be able to solve also the slowly emerging crisis of eroading of competitiveness. Now, when we have showed that the acute crisises, they can actually be solved.
And I guess does that also call for any kind of paradigm shift in competition policy or do you see this you know, continuing under your success as you have led the competition policy of the Commission.
Well, we have renewed quite a number of things, so we have a much more thorough look at innovation. We have made it clear how do we look at markets, because of course more markets become global. How can we assess that we have prepared the grounds to look at the regulation that governs how we look at abuse of
dominant position. So there are quite a number of things that has been renewed, and we have sort of paved the way for I think a bitter administration, more better access to file so there would be plenty of work for my successor to.
Do, I don't doubt.
And then I guess just a final reflection on these judgments today. I mean, you mentioned the press conference that you were brought to tears I think by the judgments. I mean, do you feel is this a kind of vindication coming at the end of your term?
You know of your work over the past ten years.
Well, I think you need to of course own your victories, but you also own your defeats, and we have had both, and hopefully that shows that we're willing to push the envelopes also sometimes to take a risk in order to try to make sure that the market serves the consumer and that we are not just small meet for the machine. And I hope that is what people take down from today's judgment, both that we won the Google case and it's final, and we won the Apple case and it's final.
That's Margaret Vesteer, Executive Vice President of the European Commission for a Europe Fit for the Digital Age and Commission for Competition. For more conversations like this one, subscribe to the Bloomberg Talks podcast. I'm Charlie Pellett, and this is Bloomberg