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European technology regulations remain at the center of the trade talksteen the EU and US as they move to implement their deal reached over this summer. Tomorrow, the European Commission is due to set out changes to its rules on data protection and artificial intelligence. They're meant to ease the regulatory burden and boost competitiveness. We're joining me now in the Brussels radio studio to discuss is Glenn Fogels, CEO of Booking Holdings, which is the company that owns Booking
dot Com, Priceline, Open Table and more. Glenn, good morning, Great to see you in Brussels. This is it's interesting to talk to you because you are one of those companies that is designated as a big platform by the EU for its regulatory purposes. We often think of perhaps the Googles or the Microsoft's of this world, but you are a company that many people will have had interactions with while booking travel or restaurants as it may have
been involved. The European Commission says at once to simplify its digital rules. Is this something that you're excited about? Is going to help you to grow your company.
Well, thanks for having me, Steve, and it is an interesting time indeed, and you're right, we are an incredible user of technology, and we also are of course regulated by all the new AI rules that are coming into place, and that can be very complex, particularly because we are a very global company. Booking dot Com is one of the largest travel companies in the world, and as such we have to deal with business around the world and
different regulatory environments create different problems. And one of our problems right now is with EU rules and that are more stringent and more complicated and require a tremendous amount of money investment for us versus some of our competitors around the world that are not subjected to the same rules, they get a competitive advantage and that's very disadvantageous to us here in Europe trying to build a very competitive business.
So from your point of view, is it a question that not enough companies are being covered by these regulations or is that the rules are too onerous?
Well, I think there's a lot of things going on right now. First of all, the rules are complex, not well understood, there's contradictions, there's issues of nobody sure exactly what does it mean in terms of our own businesses, so that right away can be problematic, but certainly the issue of having our competitors who are about the same size not subjected to the same rules, that can be
very disadvantageous. So for example, I have engineers here in Amsterdam or doing tremendous great work, but if they can't get the cutting edge technology, that the stuff that's right out front, because the people who create this, the giant hyperscalers, don't want to bring it to Europe right now because they're concerned about the rules in Europe, so they're not giving it over to our engineers to be able to
do things and play with and learn well. That puts us at a big disadvantage to a giant player in the US like Expedias one of our big competitors, or Airbnb's one of our big competitors, or the Chinese company trip dot com, they're a big competitor. They all can get that stuff. Our engineers may not be able to get it. And because there's no rule per se. But the issue is that people who create these rule create these new technologies, are concerned about being liability.
Issue, which companies are afraid then to be selling those products into Europe.
Well, I think every single I think every single AI creator always has to be thinking in the back of their head should I bring this to Europe right now or not? Is this a ladder not? Look, we all saw that when open ai first brought out chat GBT. You must remember when Italy said, oh, we don't want that right now, do you remember that. Well, that continues
on and on and on. Where the concern is as these new technologies are developed, the people creating it look at the EU and they look at the European regulation and they are concerned.
Well, the interesting thing is that we spoke to yougo recently about a survey that did it across nine European countries. Overwhelmingly the people they spoke to supported regulation of AI, even if that came at a cost of innovation. I wonder, in the conversations that you're having with you and regulators, how are you pushing your points towards them and do you feel you're being listened to.
So this is a very complex problem here. We all agree we want to have safe technology. Nobody disagrees with that, and then you come up on the other hand, we don't want to end up far behind other countries and we don't want to end up not having great innovation that helps society too, So it's a balancing issue. The problem is the world is not one set of rules,
So how do we work here in Europe? How together do we create up with rules that we'll be able to match up with rules in other parts of the world. And that is something that unfortunately we as a global company have to deal with, but we can We cannot change governments have to make these rules, but we can give advice and we can work with our legislator are different members of members of parliament and ways to try and help them understand the difficulties that we are facing.
Can you give us the con create example of a difficulty you're facing that you're bringing up when your conversations while you're here in Brussels.
Well, the one I just brought up right now, the fact that in terms of new technologies in AI, a gentic AI that's coming in, will we be allowed to use certain types of personalization or not versus our competitors may be able to do that, and we can It's a very technical things.
Right, what's the opportunity cost? I suppose if you can't do that. What does that mean for your Facebook?
Well, it ends up we're in one of the most competitive industries in the world. Travel is by far an area where people know that they get lots of different opportunities to do their travel. And if they come to US and they do not see the same benefits, the same ease of use, the same personalization that is shown by one of our competitors, we may not get that sale. And that's very In the long run. What you end up with is that we'll end up with companies in
the in the European area cannot compete. Instead of hiring more people, we end up kind to let people go instead, and that be very detrimental for the economies overall.
I mentioned Donald Trump's criticism of European tech regulation. We know it's a subject of discussion and the ongoing talks between the EU and the US. Does Donald Trump making criticism like that help your case? Do you agree with him on some of the changes that need to be made.
Well, I won't own comment on what the US President has said or not so, so in more generalities, the fact is I understand completely the need for regulations, but also understand they need to be smart regulations. They need to be done in a way that enables companies to continue to develop new technologies will make better things for society. And that's what we're doing. Our travel is a wonderful thing.
People love travel. We want to continue to create a way that it's easier our business and the use of technology is huge. We have an incredible number of people working all the time. But if the rules are such that we cannot compete, that will be detrimental to the entire European community.
Given this process that's underway, simplification, you know, adapting these digit the rules. Are you confident that the rules will change?
I'm hopeful. How about that? Okay?
And what are you basing that hope on.
Some people say that you know your strategy. Your strategy should not be just hope, and that's true. So what we're doing is we're talking with everyone we can in government to make sure they understand the complications. Look, one of the most powerful laws really is the law of the unintended consequences. And when new laws, new rules are put into place, really working people so they understand what the consequences of these rules or laws will be going forward.
And I think sometimes there isn't enough thought into that, and I'll give examples. Right now, we are incredibly disadvantaged by the DMA and the DSA. Now we are fully in favor of supporting them. We follow all the rules, we do everything, and it's costing us huge amounts millions and millions and millions of euros that we could be spending on hiring people, technology, building new things. Instead we're
spending it on the regulatory framework. The problem is are competitors who are not subjected by these same rules, even though we are competing for the same customers, they are not, and that is problematic.
Would you be hiring those people in Europe?
Though?
Because the talent frey and a lot of cases is in the US as well.
So booking dot Com was born in Amsterdam, a small thing. We have over seven thousand employees. We are continuing to hire. Look, I would like to hire even more, but the hire more requires the capital to do it and the resources that you want to put in. Instead of putting it into regulations, we would put it into technology hiring more people. That'd be great, But I look, I recognize the need to have good regulatory frameworks.
I want to ask you a little bit about the technology behind the travel as well. Though we're seeing, of course you're using AI in the company more and more as well. Are you trusting AI to make your travel plans now already?
You know, there's that old saying of trust, but verify. I think that's something everybody should absolutely do. Look, I use a lot large language models for myself my own travel, and we have great things at booking dot Com. We have an AI trip Planner, which is a great way to use technology to find an easier way to come
up with a holiday. I also do check though, I do check to make sure everything's exactly right and using other sorts, and I think people should continue to do that until such time that we really feel everything is at a level that you don't need to do that. I think that's some way down the future.
You still sharing travel recommendations with people rather than necessarily direction them to the technology.
Well, we will, you know, Look, we'll continue to give great recommendations. One of the things about AI that really is remarkable is how it comes up with things you may not have thought of before. And look, we go back to the issue of personalization. I would love for our AI trip planner at booking dot com to know every single thing about me. Remember everything about me, Use everything about me. Within all parts of our business. It's not just the booking for the hotel, but the flights,
the car rental, everything that we're bringing together. Well, there's a problem actually in some of the regulations that makes that more difficult for us, because we have different brands that do the car rental, let's say, and that's problem matter.
I'm sure the European regulators argue that it's about consent as well from people who want to share that sort of information.
Consent is great. I'm in favor of consent. Nothing wrong with that, Glen.
We'll have to leave it there. CEO of Booking Holdings, Glenn Fogel, thank you very much for joining us in Brussels,