Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. Now, let's talk a bit more than about the Prime Minister Kirstarmer. He used a galitzy London investment summit to proclaim growth and wealth creation the cornerstones of his government. He pledged to rip out the bureaucracy that blocks investment and make the country's regulatory regime fit for the modern age. He also rejected suggestions that he could raise capital gains taxes high as
thirty nine percent when he was speaking to Bloomberg yesterday. Now, I'm pleased to say that joining us for a discussion around this is Ed Bussey, who is CEO of Oxford Science Enterprises, which is an independent investment company but focused on building out companies that emerge from Oxford University. Ed, welcome to the program. Thank you for being with us.
Good Morning's a pleasure to be here.
Yeah, you're also meeting with the Chancellor. You're involved in in the startup and build up a program here in the UK for business is How successful do you think the investment summit was yesterday? What do you think of the event overall?
Well, it sends a very important signal out to the to the global market. That the UK is open for business, so I think that has to be applauded. And clearly we had some sort of big, big name investors attending, and you know, I think it signaling is important. We
know we do need to reset the narrative. We we need some more positivity and we and I know I wasn't at the summit personally, but looking at the coverage, including the great coverage from Bloomberg, I should say I think, you know, it feels like that the government is genuinely intending to really drive the growth agenda. I think there's some sincerity behind that and is trying to be more ambitious around that era, which you know is very welcome.
Okay, that's good, but surely action and delivery are the thing that is required. I mean, the diagnosis of the issue in terms of trying to improve the business environment, and that's well understood. They have to deliver, don't they.
Absolutely what really matters now and yesterday is great, but what really matters is what we all do now off the back of it, because this needs action and it's fantastic. We had some amazing headlines yesterday, some really big investment numbers which are sort of great which is great news, but this needs to flow through into tangible action that makes a real difference for those of us who are trying to build companies from the ground up in the UK.
And there are some significant challenges and I'm not suggesting the government isn't aware of the challenges, but what really matters is the resolution of some of the significant problems that the sector faces.
And you know, I've just noted that there has been, I guess a challenge to retain talent here in the UK. Is there something tangible that the government can do to help retain this talent? A lot of you know, recent graduates, even these Nobel Prize winners ers, they were all born and educated here in the UK. But since left is there something tangible you're looking for for the government to address that?
Well, yeah, there's a few really important dimensions to your question. I think, first of all, if you look at the founding entrepreneur ecosystem that we have here in the UK, it's global. I think the latest numbers of forty to fifty percent of the founders of our fast growth companies come from outside the UK. So it's not just academics and universities, it's the founders of our business, but also
the early stage investment community. It's entirely global, it's international, it's from all over the world, and we do have a problem attracting that talent across all those areas into the UK. And I noted yesterday there was some comments around well there hadn't been that many references to the word tax. Now, if you're a large corporate based outside the UK, that sort of one scenario and you might
hear that message. But if you're a founder or an academic looking to set up a business, or an investor and or a family office, the really critical layer of the ecosystem which we need, that of which we need thousands, those people do really care about taxes, their personal taxes, capital gains taxes, inherit taxes. So for those people who
would be directly affected. Now, when we talk about working people, this includes that group, the hard working entrepreneurs that are trying to build companies and we need to bring them from outside the UK because the are not enough here in the UK to build the sort of scale of growth that we're talking about.
Okay, so you really sure then that Stephanie Flanders whence she was speaking to Kirstamy yesterday managed to get you an avowal that actually thirty nine percent was a bit off the mark in terms of capital gains tax increases. Do you think that all the people that you are speaking to are leaving because of the concerns around higher taxation personal and business?
I mean, look, I can't talk about this quantitatively. I do know anecdotally a number of investors and entrepreneurs who have already decided to build their business outside the UK just because they're concerned around the direction of travel that has been signaled from a taxation perspective. Because we're again we're this group is entirely mobile. Yeah, it's global, it's mobile. They can set their business up in Zurich, or in
Barcelona or elsewhere. And we need to remember that there are absolutely there are some financial challenges for the UK which will it sounds like it's going to need some sort of tax increase, but we're competing in a global marketplace for talent and tax is an important part. Is not the only part, but it's an important consideration for people where they think about locating themselves.
So is kiss our Kissam and Rachel V's pro entrepreneur.
I think so that's what I'm That's what I'm hearing. But it comes back to your earlier question. This needs to translate into action. What are we actually going to do? Because if on one hand, we have you know, sixty eight billion of investment sort of booked as of yesterday, but we then tax this layer of the economy to the point where basically they don't know the opportunity cost of people not coming here but also the existing people here thinking of relocating, then we've just shot ourselves in
the foot. So that's it's going to come back to what do we actually do off the back of this? And so all I is focused on the thirtieth of October in this respect, but there are are there other parts of this. You know, the government has an important role to raise money and help raise money with us across the whole ecosystem. Procurement is another area where we need real attention government procurement that is, talent is another, and then we need joined up strategies around these high
value areas. It was great to see the announcements around AI and and climate yesterday, but we need to be focusing on quantum and the other sort of critical areas where the UK has got a global edge.
Yeah, so I guess attracting investment money and having the startups here, Yes, that's all well and good, but what about the IPO landscape when it comes to here in London. It's been you know, dire for the London market in terms of IPO's barely four billion just in the last three years. Is that were you and do you see any action that the new government could take to help foster that environment?
Well, I know talking to the likes of Julia Hoggett that there is a real there is a real concern and a real push to try to address that. It's going to take time, a lot of these things, mansion house, it's going to take time. So I think there's a lot of good intention and goodwill and a lot of good work going to try to resolve it. But you're absolutely right, this is a problem. If we look at our portfolio, we have one hundred and twenty companies in
the portfolio. We're building ten new spin outs a year. We have a number of unicorns in the making. And the sad fact is, if you look at it from a uk PLC point of view, those companies that are thinking about an IPO or or talking about and not one of them is looking at the UK. Now with my UK hat on, that's a bit of a travesty, isn't it, Because we then get accused of building great
cat companies and then catapulting them out of the country. Now, our shareholders who from around the world might say, well, actually Nasdak's the right place maybe to list and so you know, that's a logical economic argument, and I mean you can't dispute that. But I think we'd say, with my UK hat on, we have got a problem there we need to fix because ideally we'd keep these companies here. If the UK is going to build its first trillion pound company, in my view, it's going to come out
of the deep tech ecosystem of one of our universities. Yeah, that's where it's going to happen. And for the value of that company to then trickle down to cascade down in the UK and create the next generation of entrepreneurs and capital flow. We need those, We need these listings and exits to be happening here.
Yeah, And everybody, the government downwards talk about the importance of the capital and the kind of the brain stoffs that we have in our top universities, including at Oxford, which is so important, and yet only earlier this year I was doing special reporting and long podcast about the dire need to fund universities a little bit better and the fact that the nine thousand and something cap on
university fees is going to have to go up. That would seem to be the drive funding university so that people come here, and the visa requirements so that you can come here and build that business. Is the government doing anything on that, never mind skills and so on.
Well, so you've hit on a really I mean, this is why I'm so energized about what I'm doing is and it can equally be frustrating because one of the areas where the UK has a massive competitive edge is around our universities. Four of the top ten universities in the world are UK universities, twenty eight of the top
hundred are UK universities. I mean, we are where punching way above our weight and so funding our universities properly and then supporting the commercialization of the world class research that comes out of them is absolutely critical to the government's agenda on growth, productivity and creating a superpower.
One last thought then are you disappointed that the amount of money being invested into the National Wealth Fund has been cut by what about a fifth? Twenty seven point eight billion pounds will be allowed to be deployed for the National Wealth Fund, which is one of the sources of crowding in public private money together.
I think it's still a large amount of money. What I'm focused on is where is that money going to be allocated? And also that's why the Mansion House Compact is so important. You know, that's the forty to fifty billion that if we can drive that through on an accelerated basis, we haven't got time a lot of time here, then I think that's what's going to make a real difference.