Alphabet CEO Sundar Pichai Talks Evolution of AI, Antitrust Suits, Privacy

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The CEO of Alphabet and Google, Sindhar Pachai, is here with us. Let's welcome Sindar to the stage.

Thank you so much for being here.

We talked last year about a year ago on the circuit, so it's really good to catch up.

Good to ceogain.

Starting with the most important question, did you come in a way moo?

I would have loved to.

We are still working on making sure they're safe and can get through freebays. We're making great progress, but hopefully same time next year, I can do it all the way from Mountain Review.

All right, I'm gonna hold you to it.

So I just want to start with a vibe check post io.

I feel like we saw a slightly.

More confident and cohesion of Google. How would you describe it?

Like?

Are you getting better at choosing your own dance music?

Look?

I think when you undertake a set of things, you know it takes time, but you know internally we have known all of this was in progress. We've been training Gemini, releasing versions every few months.

I think two point five.

Was a real breakthrough in terms of capabilities, and it's at the frontier of where the models are and so putting that in our products across our suite of products. I think that's what makes the story come alive.

So candidly, I'm using chatbots more and I'm using Google less.

Maybe you are too.

What is the fate of search in a world of AI agents and personalized answers?

Is it evolution or extinction?

Look, people have been asking this question now for a couple of years. You've had these chatboards scale up to hundreds of millions of users. We've grown in querries, So I think it feels very far from a zero sum game to me to use other areas in parallel. Like TikTok came in, everybody started using TikTok. YouTube grew and did very very well in those moments too.

So you know, I do think.

Search is very very good at what it does. Empirically, people value it for what it does, and they're actually showing it by using it.

More So, investors are clamoring to know where you haven't shared the specifics. How much money are you pouring into AI and how much money are you actually making from AI?

Well, I mean, in twenty twenty five, our capex is seventy five billion dollars, right, so we are definitely investing for the long run. But you know it's the same investment which powers businesses from search to YouTube, to cloud, to workspace, to Android and play to way more right and so and to our subscriptions business.

We just launched.

Google AI Pro and Ultra and you know it's definitely doing well. I mean pleased to see the reception. So I think it's such a profound technology. I feel the opportunity ahead is bigger than the opportunity we had in.

The taxt So to double click there, if I may, what specific new revenue streams do you see increasing and what revenue streams do you see decreasing?

There is look, I mean.

Our entire between the growth in cloud like Vertex AI is up forty x in usage on a token basis.

Just in the last twelve months.

So obviously you know we have billions of dollars in providing AI based solutions, in AI as an infrastructure, AI subscriptions, so there are many many new businesses.

YouTube and the web more broadly is being overrun with AI generated content.

What effect is that having on Google products and services?

Are you finding you need to allocate more resources to filter out the low quality content.

I mean, look, anytime there are these technological inflection points, it's always a cat and mouse game, right, So the new technology creates new opportunity, more people can create content, but you also have a rise in low quality content.

I think moments like this.

Is what we actually it's what Google is good at, right, separating finding the needle in the haystack, making sure you surface the higher quality content. We are using Gemini to help improve YouTube's recommendations, so we're using AI to help improve how we did at content at Scrive. You know, there are good content being created using AI as well, so we're just trying to elevate high quality content.

There is a lot of anxiety out there about the health of the open web, you know AI, as you just relies on the good stuff, like it relies on high quality content. As you push further into AI generated content, does that undermine the entire system? Like does the web become just a watered down version of itself?

Look, it's another area.

You know people have had questions about the web now for the past ten twenty years, Right, I said.

This during IO.

But if you look at the index we index the web, the number of web pages that we are indexing is up forty five percent just in the last two years alone.

What about the last two months.

Ah, there's just definitely people are creating a lot more content. I do think, you know, creation is getting easier, not just in web across you know, if you look at YouTube, the amount of content is exploding, right, And so I do think as content creator you have to think about many, many modalities, platforms, etc. But the opportunity space gets bigger.

You've said AI overviews are good for publishers. The publishers we talk to say, it's tragic. Studies show drop and click through rates. I'm not always I don't always click through when I see ANAI overview. You're answering the question for me right there on Google publishers say they can't opt out or they might be.

De indexed from Google entirely.

So what is the concrete evidence that this is actually good for them and not just good for Google?

Look a few things.

I mean, I think compared to most companies in the world, we take care to design experiences which is going to showcase links right, and it's we took a long time testing aioviews and prioritized approaches which result in high quality traffic out. I'm confident that many years from now, that's how Google will work, right, Like you know, we think the value proposition in Google is people come. Yes, sometimes they may get answers. That was true when we launched

You announced new spectacles at io. Maybe Google Glass was ahead of.

Its time, but I'm curious what evidence you have that we really want to put computers on my faces now, on our faces now, and give tech companies even more of our information.

Ultimately, you know, you could have asked questions like this about driverless cars, right. Ultimately, it's the people who choose what they want to do, right, and so you will only succeed in these things if you're building something delightful.

I am wearing glasses right now, right.

So for me, they don't have a camera in them, do this.

They don't And they don't have a display in them. They don't have audio in them. But if he could make something which is no additional cost for me, but when I wanted to, it's going to give me important information, make it more useful, my life gets better.

Look, I've been playing around with ar glasses.

In fact, I was talking with a friend who had it on and shot basketball and he had an air ball, and it told him like that was a bad air ball.

Right, So look, and he still wants to wear them.

He found the experience delightful. You know, this natural instinct was like, what should I be doing better?

Right?

And so you're going to have these things. Be a companion, be a coach, all of it. So I think I think, I think we have to do it tastefully, but if done correctly, I think people will respond positively.

But Johnny, I've sam Altman Alliance.

It seemed perfectly time to crash your io party. Did that rain on your parade a little? And are you at all worried?

Look, I mean I expect in this moment to be that there'll be a lot of innovation, right, you know, enormous respect for what Johnny has done, and I'm looking forward to seeing what new computing devices are on the horizon.

Mark Zuckerberg has said that almost all of Lama's code will be AI generated very soon. Sacha Nadella has said it's as much as thirty five percent for Microsoft right now. You've said twenty five percent last year. I believe you said that that of Google's code.

Is AI generated.

You have over one hundred and eighty thousand employees right now.

Is it half that in the future.

Look, I expect we will grow from our current engineering pace even into next year, right because it allows us to do more, right, I think the opportunity space is also increasing. I just view this as making engineers dramatically more productive, getting a lot of the mundane aspects out of what they do, allowing them to spend on higher

What about the long term?

Look, I mean, I mean long horizontally. As a technology, it's tough to predict all all efforts of it long term. Just the fact that today sixty percent of the jobs today didn't exist in nineteen forty right at least why I'm mighty study by an economist called David Order. Right, So it is so tough to sit at any given time. I was just looking at YouTube in India. There are one hundred million channels in India alone, there are fifteen

It would make no sense. So, you know, I don't want to.

You know, I think it's a bit pointless to think that far ahead. But I think we underestimate how expansionary this moment is.

So this isn't too far ahead. So I hope you'll humor me.

But anthropic CEO says AI could eliminate fifty percent of white collar jobs in the next five years, unemployment rising to ten to twenty percent do you agree?

Look, I think we should take those concerns super seriously. Right with this technology to my earlier point about new jobs getting created, you're going to create new opportunities. I look at something like VO three with video, it's clear to me you're going to allow pretty much everyone in the world to be a sophisticated creator. I can't sit in linearly like you know, imagine all the impact of that will be right, So you're creating all these new opportunities.

I think that those are important conversations to have.

In two trials now, judges have said that Google is a monopoly in search and partly a monopoly in ads.

How do you address the.

Concern that your AI is built on an existing domination of search and ads and that this is just reinforcing original monopolies.

First of all, you know, we disagree with the rulings, and we are in the process of appealing these things. Look, if anything, this moment has shown I don't think there's anyone here who is using anything they don't want to use. You look at the success of chat, JPD or any other product. People are literally have more choice than ever before. The reason people use Google is because they want to use it, right, And so I think I think we

So that's how I say it.

You've said the remedies proposed are too extreme.

Would you ever voluntarily break yourself up control your own destiny?

Look, I mean I see, I mean those are they seem compared to what the initial scope of the ruling was some of the proposed solutions are far overreaching.

We'll see how it plays out.

I look at the amount of we spent over fifty billion dollars in R and D last year. We are one of the top R and D investors in the world. We take such a lot. We didn't build things like chrome, and you know, we've invested a couple of decades into these way more we've been building it over a decade. We've been doing that with quantum computing for over a decade. This amount of R and D, this amount of innovation, I think makes sense to do, and we take a long term view.

So that's how I think about it.

I've heard you say a few times that you think of AI as an expansionary moment, but so far it does seem to be favoring tech giants and well funded startups with access to GPUs and data centers.

And enormous amounts of capital.

Like, isn't this really concentrating power in fewer hands?

And is AI just another winner take all game?

Look, I think there are you know, well, I'm confident there is a company that's going to be created with AI, just like when they Internet happened many years after the Internet happened, Googled didn't exist. So you know, there's no doubt to me that three years from now there will be a company which will be dominant in this AI age which we don't even know the name of today. That's the only way things work in the future, right.

So you have all this information about us, and I mean you have our deepest, darkest secrets. It's it's already hard to me personal Well yeah, actually you do, not you personally, but your company does. It's already hard to trust big tech, and now you're going to be using more of this information to integrate AI and to more personalized experiences. Why should we trust you now more than ever before?

I mean, we earned the trust by you know, we've been storing people's emails now for many, many years, but we've handled that content responsibly. I hope we protected from bad actors. We fight against un warranted requests. So I think more than any other company, I think we've we've taken you know, this is a responsibility. People trust us in those moments, and we are only evolving the products in the way people are telling us, you know, with

It's a it's an ask which we are responding.

To Google's rolling out Gemini to kids.

I mean, I've got enough on my parenting with more screen.

Time and social media.

Are our kids best friends going to be chatbots?

Look, there's always going to be a sense of discomfort with new technology. I don't know, like when online dating first game, people who ask questions like are you really going to meet someone online?

And so people adapt to these things.

Will people comfortably naturally interact with AI in their life in the future, Yes, Like we're seeing it empirically in terms of how people are using them, Like I see people coming to Gemini asking questions Like at an aggregate, we see questions like how should I prepare.

For this interview? All?

I mean, they're talking as if it's a companion. So we do see evidence of that.

What about kids? Like Gemini for kids?

Maybe with kids, just like you know today, when we design YouTube for kids, we design it with a different set of gudrails, and so for kids, I think, you know, you would scope it down to those appropriate experiences.

Obviously, you just unveiled VO three, which you were talking. I mean, it is mind blowing seeing these super super lifelike videos, but it is also really scary.

Is this the end of truth as we know it?

I think this is part of the role when you ask, I think this is part of the value proposition.

This is why people.

Will come to places like Google, because they're trying to ascertain what's reality.

Right and this is not?

And I do think it's well, we are going to evolve new norms around. For example, with vieo, we are watermarking videos. They are built with syntide so people can detect that they were generated. With vio you can upload any video to Google and ask about any image to Google. Ask about this image and it would tell you if it was generated by VO three. We built a syntidi detector for researchers and journalists. So you know, all these

They just wonder like, are we gonna have a shared sense of reality again, Like it's just like this is made with AI.

It's insane.

I think so, like you know how I think humans as humanity, we would value that shad sense of reality, and so you would, you know, you would value human human experiences even more in the future.

Right. That's that's how I think about it.

YouTube is arguably the most influential media platform in the world now. I mean, it is a political force, it's a cultural force. Our kids are learning there. All kids think they want to be creators. Seventy five percent of teenagers, I believe, say they're watching it every single day. I'm a mom, you're a dad, Like, I know you're in charge of the thing, but does it ever terrify you to have that much power?

Okay, I mean I I think that sense of part is an illusion. I think like when you're working in the tech industry, you know, you've simultaneously started with the conversation with like, are you about to go extinct? And then you're ending the conversation with aren't you the most powerful thing? Like, so you've got to choose in discussion of only one of that can be the truth?

Fair enough, I'm curious about your approach to the Trump administration. You are front and center at the inauguration. Google has rolled back some of its DEI policies.

Did you compromise on something that you believe in?

Look, first of all, you know, we are one of the leading American companies, global companies in this particular moment, with the point of inflection around AI, I do think the next few years are critical from many aspects. So we are committed to engage in comment. We did that with the first Trump administration. We are committed to doing that. Look around the world, you know, we comply with laws

Them as well.

So I think, for example, as a company, I think we have committed to making sure we develop AI in a way that protects the planet.

That's an important value for us.

And you've seen as prioritize efforts around renewable energy. So we'll continue doing those things. But Look, but I think it's important that as a company we engage. You know, there are many, many people in the administration, particularly around critical energy needs, critical infrastructure. These are all important areas we want to work together.

When you were on the circuit last year, we spoke about the criticisms. You know that Google and you personally have been too late to the AA game, too late to get AI to market, and I wonder how has your own leadership style evolved over the last couple of years, specifically, like have you changed at all to meet this moment of radical disruption?

Look, I feel like this is the main thing I did as a CEO setting up the company is to really be at the forefront of AI. When I look at the depth and breadth of what we are doing as a company, across everything we are doing on multiple fronts,

Are you still getting involved in nitty gritty product decisions or is that leaving that to Serge.

You know, Okay, I mean fortunate to have Sergey is deeply working on the Gemini models, but I'm very very involved in various aspects of our product decisions. I think you have to do that in the in the in the in the tech space.

You've been CEO for ten years now, however many years out it is what kind of person do you think Google's future CEO should be?

Look?

I think I think it's important to understand, like the products we build, you know, tremendously impact society, and you know the journey of technology is doing the hard work to make sure you or harnessing it in a way that it benefits people, and that takes a lot of work, you know, and I think that'll be an important quality to have.

You're driving this massive technological change that's also bound to create like major societal disruption. How do you personally wrestle with that? Like is there some philosopher or religion or deeper code that you turn to to help you answer some of these questions?

Okay, first of all, there are many of us doing this. I think ultimately it comes down to you don't need much more than having empathy for you know, for your fellow people.

On this journey.

And I think I'm doing what I'm doing so or many others in the industry because you get a chance to positively impact people with the work you do, And that's the true north star at.

The end of the day.

What should kids be studying these days?

Like should they still be learning how as a coach, should we still be getting computer science degrees?

Like I've got four of them, so they're probably they're probably going to be talking to AI asking this question, so my answer doesn't matter.

Maybe. Look, I think.

One of the things that's great about this moment is I think AI over time will allow us all to pursue our passions more right, And I think that's the truly liberating aspect.

Of a lot of this.

You're giving pretty much everyone a powerful tool they express themselves in the way they want to. And so I won't change anything of what you're studying. I think I would still ask encourage people to follow their passions and find something that's of interest to them. I think, you know, pretty much all disciplines which are valuable today, there'll be a version of that valuable in the future.

What are the limits of AI? Like, is it possible we don't reach AGI?

Oh?

With the current Oh, It's entirely possible. I mean, like you could be dealing with Look everything we can see, you know, I feel very positive there's a lot of forward progress ahead with the paths we are on, not only the set of ideas we are working on today, some of the newer ideas we are experimenting with. Some very optimistic on seeing a lot of progress. But you know, you've always had these technology curves where you may hit a temporary plateau. So are we currently on an absolute

Like weymo's doing very very well.

But remember you can teach a kit to drive in about twenty hours, right and so so. Both the technology is amazing, but we are quite far from a generalized technology as well.

We talked a little bit about your vibe coding backstage next to share how often are you vibe coding and what are you working on?

I wish I could I could do more, but you know, I've just been messing around, be it either with cursor or you know, I wipe coded with replet, trying to build a custom web page with all the sources of information I wanted in one place so I could type of location, get it all partially complete, so, you know, but it's exciting to see how casually you can do it now, right, and compared to the early days of coding, things have come a long way.

You know.

It feels so delightful to be a coder in this moment in time.

Even after that, you still need all those software engineers. Are you sure?

Okay? I think so?

Yes.

Last question.

We've got a new episode of the Circuit out this week actually about Microsoft's fiftieth anniversary. Google's twenty seven years old.

What is Google at fifty?

What's Google at fifty? Look? I hope, I hope.

We are nimble and innovating, and you know, in the technology industry you have to earn your success every year, and so for me, it's more about building a culture that's you know, really innovative at its core, takes a long term view and does deep technology work and translates that into products that impact billions of people.

All right, So are you going to is a human going to be running Google or an AI?

Well?

I do think whoever is running it will have an extraordinary AI companion to help, all

Right, Sendar Pachaye, Everyone you g can just little bit