White Supremacy Granted a Place at American Political Table, Ricks Says

equity markets. We're gonna again have an eclectic show that sporting Douglas cast joins us, who's always interest in interesting because Mr cass Uh follows the markets looking long term but also more of a short term perspective, and there he has been very uh, very uh cautious. Is I guess how I would put it, Doug, good morning. We'll say the Yankees for the X Blot because I don't want you to hang up the phone on me. If I look at the markets, have you covered your shorts?

Have you reaffirmed your shorts? Essentially trade around my core short positions almost on a weekly basis. Um that said, I'm probably at my well, probably at my highest net short exposure in two or three years. Why is that dramatic? It's dramatic. Why is it? Well? I think everything in the market gets overdone um um with the S and P and even the fangs, and the SMP price rise over the last couple of years has outpaced the prosperity

on main street. It's time for the markets to fall back in line with what is actually happening in the domestic economy. And how severe the decline will be can be debated, but many, like myself look at most valuation metrics that lie in the decile. We look at the historically wide difference between gap and non gap earnings, with gap at eighteen or nineteen times and nine gap non

gap in excessive times. We look at the dangerously high equity cap to GDP ratio, which is warm Buffet's favorite evaluation, and we say the market is overvalued within that has been a leadership, and that we've had a number of stocks out front, and the bulls would say that frankly, there's been a real lack of leadership. How do you cut that? Do you want to acquire shares in the laggards or are they a signal of the angst to come. I tend to look at my both my longs and

my shorts on the bottoms up basis um um. You know I'm showing a number of popular stocks like Amazon and Disney the ladder, whose growth rate is probably whose secular growth rate is probably under ten percent compared to eighteen percent historically at thirteen and four in consensus on the south side of Wall Street. And that's how I do my business. I don't look at and I look

at I don't look at price targets. I look at probabilities, and I look at the just generally speaking, I look at the dysfunction that this organization in the White House and the animus not only between the Dems and the Republicans,

but within the GOP itself. And I recognize as a guest, I think a professor at Columbia, in an early segment of yours, said, it's highly unlikely that we're going to see the implementation of the administration's tax reform of infrastructure plans, so that we're we're probably stuck in barely a two real GDP growth rate for the US as far as the eyes can see. How do you respond to the bulls that say we need a recession to really slip

into a duncass kind of market. I don't think that's true empirically, um, you know, I think that the market is more governed by uncertainty. And I'll say what I said before on Bloombrook surveillance, I'll say it again. Donald Trump is going to make market volatility and economic uncertainty

of outcomes great again. So I think that the incremental eight or ten dollars of SNP earnings from the administration's initiatives UM is likely in in let's say an SMP earnings terms for next year, is likely a pype train. I mean within this Doug is the idea of being completely short, being not hedged, but saying you can have some enthusiasm. No, I'll get to Twitter in our next section. But is there any part of a broader, large camp market where you can hide or is it so grim

that you can't own utilities? You can't on this well, I, as I said, I do a bottom up kind of analysis, and I have actually a number of long positions, but on the net basis, I am that short. But these are specific ideas that meet my criteria for investment in very few stocks meet Mike's material investment. But there are some companies like Hartford Financial up in Connecticut, UM, Campbell, Soup, Twitter, et cetera. I'm even long a couple of retail stocks.

Now what would they be? I mean, we we covered J. C. Penney on Friday. I meant to your listened to you listen to us? Of course I always do my We're colin up to fourteen listeners. That's just unbelten that's unreal. To the game. I can listen to the game list now, we'll do that in the next section. You want to come back, I'm gonna beat you to death. But you know, Doug, I I look at Amazon as a short. I mean, how do you short Jeff Bezos? That's like mom, Dad,

apple Pie and the rest of it. I'm short Amazon Bass And this is clearly a contrarian view, which is typical of many of my popular shorts like Starbucks and Disney, and in this case, Amazon and I'm short of come based principally on the existential threat that antitrust issues and political viewpoints and initiatives may hold over the company. The company is finally attracting some media and political tension for its business practice. It's disrupting order parts, appliances, and its

plans for food retailing through Whole Foods acquisition. It may very well have too many opportunities. Perhaps it's creating a massive smoke screen to mask business problems with profit generation, but that the core of my concern is whether Amazon is growing too big and that the disruptive impact of Amazon's growth and plans could lead to government restrictions that growth. Let's do Twitter right here. We've had a couple of minutes left here, and am I right in that You're

a long, long, long and Twitter? Is that just a takeout idea on really long Twitter? I think that the market is paying nothing for um takeover option ality, a merger optionality. I think Twitter by this time next year will be part of a much larger company and its basic core businesses is fine despite you know the recent drop in the stock crisis. Well, but you need a lower stock trice stock price to affect a transaction. I think that the stock will probably be taken out in

the neighbor, let's come back with Doug casts. We've got lots to talk about, including a picture and his family from the Los Angeles Dodgers of a few years ago. Mr cass is with Sea Breeze Partners. Doug Cass of Sea Breeze Partners will weigh in on the Fed. Now he's going to weigh in on the Browns, the Liechtenstein's, and the co Faxes. Sanford Brown, who is eighty one years old, Doug, I refuse to believe that Sandy Kofax

is eighty one years old. We have had a lacious weekend, including images from Charlottesville that we're just extraordinary about Jews and about a lot of other elements of hatred in this country. Take us back to nineteen sixty five. I remember the firestorm of debate when Mr Colfax said, no,

I will not pitch Um. It was actually excuse me, well, Sandy, Um, you know it's I would say that Tom baseball is a lot like investing, you know, as the dude said in The Big Lebowski, strikes and gutters, ups and downs. And Sandy in the mid sixties developed that authortic shoulder. And I remember sitting with him and my grandmother, Jean Kofax, in which he said to my grandfather, Harry Kofax, if he continued, and this is actually in late sixty five,

if he continue baseball, he might lose his army. Um, you know. And I don't know if it was a function of medicine, the absence of medical advances at that time. I suspect he would have had surgery, yeah, Tommy seventeen. But um, it was. It was kind of catastrophic as a Dodger fan and as his cousin. I mean, within it is growing up in benson Hurst and you know, on Long Island in that time. It's realm. We moved

to my hometown, Rockville Center, Long Island on the South Show. Briefly. Yeah, they were, you know, in Rockville Center, and uh, he was essentially folks a walk on at Cincinnati and basketball,

and uh, I guess he was a walk on. He had like three tryouts in the majors before branch Rickey decided he could bring the He was a basketball player at Lafayette High School and his best friend was Wilpon, who owned New York Mets, and Wilpon was a picture and he wanted to hang out with Fred Wilpon, So he decided to try out for the baseball team and place bas at Lafayette High School. Doug, Within, you you're being part of this family, the greater Cofax family. Do

you tec detect the difference in Charlottesville? This weekend versus the debates of N sixty six over religion and the importance of yan Kapoor is it? Is it a different discussion now than it was back then. I think that the same prejudice is unfortunately existed then um as they do now. And I hate to say that um as Mayor Bloomberg once said, I'm a New Yorker and I know a con when I see it. And unfortunately the President disavowed the action on Friday, but didn't disavow the actors.

And I think that's extremely disappointing, and that was expressed by many of his Republican beyers. We should mention that Mr Bloomberg, the former mayor, is a principal owner of Bloomberg LP. And this ation, Doug, we've just got a minute left, which is all you need to describe. Uh, not the collapse, but the desire I think of everyone for the Yankees to make a go of it, um for our global audience. Their relief pitching failed in two of three games. What's to do? Mr Cass, Mr Cofax

can't do it? Right now? I'll tell you who are doing it? To Los Angeles Dodgers. They haven't lost the series since early June. The winning percentage I think is that we're seve. Is it just about money? I mean, come on, they bought the team. It's more money. It's more money than thank you. They need you know what they need. They need sandy on the mound and they need this thirteen year old Little League World Series kid um Jace Blaylock plays for Georgia, who hit a three

seventy five years old in the trees left. I would suggest I would suggest suggestion Doug. I was just in Mr Drysdale to put it under somebody's chin. Doug cast thank you so much, UH this morning on the equity markets. Mr Cass's caution on the markets, and also of course a snapshot there of Benson Nurst and Rockville Center from another time. UH and plays what they did in Washington

a number of years ago. A great UH financial supporter and fundraiser for President Obama was UH Fred hackber And and he got his job because he gets up early in the morning, which is what you do with the Small Business Administration and the Export Import Bank as well,

and joining Center studios and well timed. I mean, we could talk I think for at least two hours here about your family's heritage, and and you know one of your uncles I believe was killed at Normandy, and you know all the emotion of the weekend that we saw. But let me start with business. Is it? Is it? You're retired as the head of the Export Import Bank? Wrapped up my time? There? I don't consider you're wrapped up your time. Here's the door. What's your hurry? What's

the state of the Export Import Bank under President Trump? Well, it's a little vague, to be honest with you. He has indicated more of late that he's supportive. Uh. He has indicated his nominee for the chairman is someone who's been and ultimately opposed to the bank, part of the leadership against the bank. So it's hard to read those tea leaves. But he still has an empty board. They're just two acting members. You need three for a quorum,

but there's no quorum. Bank has been essentially lapsed for two over two years for any major transactions, and it's hurts our competitiveness and hurts job creation. You have been more than visible in some of the themes that seemed to anger the people that were so angry in Charlottesville.

This weekend. There's any number of ways to take this, beginning with your support for President Obama, your support for LGBT rights, and and critically your support of your family, the Lillian Vernon people, and and uh the the heritage of your family. What was it like for Fred Hackburg to see the signs I put out on Twitter direct hatred for Jews? How did you process that and did you bring it back to the president. Well, what is so shocking? And when you think about terrorism, and many

have called this domestic terrorism, terrorism is about fear. It's about creating a sense of anxiety and people, not just for the people in Charlottesville, but for people throughout the United States. It says, be careful, be watchful. You're not safe,

You're not in a secure place. And so what's frightening I think about the weekend is this is about striking fear and and putting a damper on people's sense of being an American, being grateful to be here and ask in saying you should really be very careful and not sure of yourself. And so that was what so was frightening I thought about this weekend. Hi, I just want to jump in here and ask a question sort of back to you know, Charlottesville and the issue of, um,

the Export empower Bank. But can you make the best argument to let's call them the global skeptics that um, I think you know, we're behind the Trump movement for why we need the Export Import Bank. Now, I mean the argument is that it's kind of a chrony capitalism, and uh, it doesn't really benefit most Americans and so forth. What is the counterpoint to that when you're trying to

sort of address those concerns. Well, first of all, if you're a global skeptic and you believe in sort of America first, American manufacturing in America economic prowess, then you need to believe in the x in bank. We're not gonna be able to sell overseas and I'm not gonna be able to compete and go hoe to toe with the Chinese, the Koreans, the Germans, if we don't have a financial institution just like they do. There are nineties export credit agencies around the world, each one slugging it

out to create jobs in their country. So for us to try and go into go to that fight with one hand tied behind our back is simply crazy. I look, I look at this friend and just in the brief time that we we have for you. And as Eli mentions globalists, how did we become a nation of globalists? What does what does globalists mean? That's a great question. First of all, I think we became a nation because

we're a nation of immigrants. As you mentioned, my family came here uh in the lead up to World War two, where a nation were the most diverse nation in the world. So people in our country have connections to every country around the world, not so if you're if you're German or French or British in the same way. So I think there's a realization that we are five percent of the world's cup population is out there. So we want to have a strong economy, creating a lot of jobs,

having a great simularity. We need to sell to them. Okay, you raise money, you raise big money for the president. Greg Vllier mentioned this morning, note the disarray of the Democratic Party. Do the Democrats have to migrate away from a coastal progressive tone and refine scoop and refined scoop Jackson's Democrats? Are they out there? Or is that a wasted task? I think the future of the Democratic party is going to be with young people, with millennials, with

urban people. Um, we don't want to write anybody off, but clearly we have to understand who our appeal is. And I think one of the appeals we have to do is for people who don't get a fair shake in this society. And that has to do with workers, minorities, women, uh, immigrants, and so we can't forget that and that has to be front and center as we pursue a policy. Washington, first time I've ever asked this question out here. I'm gonna, I'm honored to ask it with you. When does President

Obama decided to run again? Well, the the constitution will prohibit that, so he can't do they can't do that again. To that, Fred Hawkford, thank you so much, greatly appreciated, former head of the Export Import Bankers. Well, Eli, you gotta write a column on that. President Obama, even if he waits out at Grover Cleveland term can't run again. I mean that's the law, right right. Yeah, Well, I mean I know that there are a lot of people.

I mean I think I feel like he's one of those figures right now who's left that can unify us and it would be nice of the President Trump would sort of recognize that this is one of those moments of crisis where he needs to sort of be bigger than his base, even though I I maintain that this is not these these these clansmen are not his base. I mean, these are fringe haters. He is the go to guy for so many about perspective of our navy

and where it fits in. He grew up a most interesting life in UH Los Angeles, UH, to say the least, and then on to a service for the nation in the United States. UH Navy Admiral Moan UH this morning, Admiral, what is your update on the state of our navy off the shores of Korea? Well, and I know it's gonna be one of high level of readiness. UM. We have for years put our most technically advanced ships UH and UH air wing. If you we have an air wing of plus about seventy five airplanes there plus a

nuclear aircraft carrier which is homeported in Japan. So they'll be not just technically advanced, but UH, they're readiness level. It will be exceptionally high. I mean it is normally and then it will be that much more so. Just because of the recent attentions, I know ELI has got a lot of questions. Let me ask one question. This is a question I got at least three times this weekend, including from one child as well. Can we shoot Korean missiles out of the air? How do we do that?

Is that a secret? Or do people actually know how we do that if they were ever to fire a missile with a dangerous vector. Well, you've seen actually in recent weeks these missile tests which have gotten uh a lot of publicity. And so the short answer to question is, yes we can. It is the way I've described it and others as well. It's hitting a bullet with a bullet. The speeds are several mock if you will, coming at

each other. Um. But we've developed that technology over many, many years, actually decades, so that we have that capability as we speak, Admiral Millen thinks so much for for doing this. Let me ask you this, Um. We we learned last week, UM that there is a Defense Intelligence Agency estimate that North Korea has the technology or capability

to miniaturize a nuclear device for a warhead. But um, you know, as I reported in and others have reported, this has been kind of floating around, you know, in in the intelligence community for a while. How much of a shock is that really to the US, uh, you know military at this point? Um, And when do you think we really learned that? Is that recent or is that is or have we known it for a while? I think I think the shock the shock is not

that uh he's either developed or he's very close. I think the shock is that he's done it as quickly as he can. While we've talked about it for years. There's one thing, at least to me very clear, uh watching Kim Jong un, is he is on a very rapid pace to develop this system, the missiles, the nuclear technology, and to make them and have that capability, much more so than his father was in many ways. The number of tests that he has conducted. UM. And this, to me,

this is his number one goal. Uh, And he is he is significantly outpacing anything that's happened there in the past. So I think if there is a shock, is that that he's there. If he is so quickly, let me let me follow up with something and that you know, for those of us who've watched the North Korea crisis unfold over the years, one thing that we've noticed that the North Koreans really do not negotiate in good faith.

I think the best example of that is during the George W. Bush administration, when we began administration negotiations by lifting sanctions and taking them off the state sponsor list. You know, they were secretly working with the Syrians to develop a nuclear site UM, sending their technicians and so forth over there. What is the formula and the argument for how we could negotiate them down, uh in terms of the nuclear program this time when it hasn't worked

for nearly twenty five years. Well, I think, and I think you make a good point, Eli, and I think the likelihood should we get into direct negotiations with the North that the behavior in that regard would change is pretty small, So we would we should expect more of the same. That said, what what hasn't happened in the past, and what I believe is the only path now is

through Beijing. We've always said that Beijing has always been very reluctant to take the lead UM, and yet I just don't see a peaceful resolution of this crisis without Beijing really stepping up. And that doesn't mean alone, because

we should We should support them. We should do everything we can to allay China's concerns about what would happen with the United States being very active there, to include the instability in the North UH, the the the worry that there would be a regime change UH and that we'd have unification UH, the financial impact of that to

certainly the region and China. So I think we can go a long way to allaying and guaranteeing China that their interests are best served by doing this as well, without undermining other things that they worry about, including us back up at the Yalu. So that's the path I think that has to that has to be taken now in light of that, and I think most people, I mean agree with you. I think that's a strong argument.

I mean, is there an is there a case to be made that Trump's UH kind of somewhat reckless rhetoric UH in the last week on North Korea could potentially change the calculation for China to make them realize that they need to do this or they need they may they may they we may be getting a war from the U. S side, and that this is another calculation. Well, I just think it's a very high risk path right now. Uh,

this is a very very tough, complex situation. And UH, clearly the President has has made it very clear to China that that he has expectations along these lines. The problem is the rhetoric has been so hot that I don't think he's left himself that that means the president much maneuver room if China doesn't choose to do this. So it really is high stakes poker right now. And the outcomes are you know, are possible solution which would

be terrific. Uh. And then the other side of that, which is exceptionally high risk, is that there would be some kind of combat or conflict breakout. Um. And well, I want to speak of your wife, Deborah, who's in charge of cultural military policy for the Mulan household. And James Travidis is fabulous the Leader's book Shelf, which is my book of the summer, folks, I can't say enough

about it. Admiral Mullen turned to Deborah Mollin and said, I think we need to read Tom Friedman's From Beirut to Jerusalem, and so much of that is about a culture that we miss in America. How does the president bone up on the intricacies of Northern Asia. What what is the Mullen path for anyone and particularly the present

to become smarter of a smarter about the cultural delicacies here. Well, I think the assumption um that all of us UH should focus on is that we are not very good in cultures other other culture was around the world, and

that we don't understand them. And I have always tried, particularly um in the senior jobs that I had to, I've tried to see the view from the others, the other individual's eyes, or the other individuals country, how they see the world, how is they they see the issue, and and you really have to work hard at that. So there are experts that you can consult with. There certainly are are. There's a rich literature on the culture of that region in the world, as there is actually

in most regions of the world. And I just couldn't emphasize enough the need two focus on that in terms of understanding how the Chinese will react, or the South Koreans will react, or the Japanese and the North Koreans specifically, let's come back everyone and with us, of course, the former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, he is with Eli Lake wash Ington's Studios. We say good morning to all of you in Washington and our studios, Eli

Lake in Washington Studios in Washington. Of course, Mr Lake writing for Bloomberg View often on national security and our most interesting and fractured American politics. And he is joined by UH Mike Mullen. He's the former Admiral of A Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Admiral Mullan. There was a boat, I'm speaking as an amateur, not a ship, a boat that wandered through the nineteen fifties, saw significant action in the Western Pacific, and then it was a

refitted or something. And in seventy three a lieutenant climbed on board the Knox Sube and I guess it was your first command. What was it like the first day when you took over the Nasubi? It was it was awesome. UM. One of the reasons that I really loved the Navy and wanted to stay in was to command ships. And that was my first one, and I was all of twenty six years old. My own my own crew deployed twice to the Mediterranean UH in the early seventies. It

was an extraordinary experience. And the reason I bring it up is is as if we've talked to James Travitas, the idea here that on a ship things get clarified. Did you ever, when you were in command of ships half the deal with sailors or for that matter, officers who had the hatreds that we witnessed in Charlottesville? What do you do when a white nationalist or a white supremacist shows up in uniform? How did Edwald Mullen handle that? Well?

I can honestly say, I really two thoughts. One is a brief answer to your question is no, not not that I can ever recall. That said, we in the Navy in the sixties and seventies, we went through some pretty tough times. We had riots on race, riots on ships in ways, just a reflection of what was going

on in the in the country at the time. And when people ask me about what's going on now, and there are a lot of people who are very very nervous and and and anxious, you know, one of my responses is, we went through some pretty tough times in the sixties and seventies, and we got through them. They were they were difficult. I think we're gonna get through this. That said, there's absolutely no place for the neo Nazi

klu klux Kland. You know, white supremacists in this country, quite frankly, and what happened there in the last couple of days is just tragic. It also represents a very visible aspect of the divide in this country, and I think leaders across the country at every level, local to national, have to figure out a way to start to unify the country and not let this divide continue. Thank you so much. I want to sort of all on those lines.

I want to ask you about something, UM, I think, uh, you know, when historians write about you as the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, one thing that I think you will really be remembered well for is your role as a leader in breaking the taboo on gays in the military. And I don't think President Obama would be able to um repeal don't ask, don't tell if it wasn't for you. I say that someone who covered at the time, and that brings us to the current moment with the issue

of transgenders, uh, transgender people in the military. UM, do you feel that this is a similar kind of point as gays in the military, and it's a question of basic equality or are there sort of special considerations in the military that you have to consider, you know, given questions about whether there should be you know, subsidized transitioning surgery and things like that. This this should be uh. This is an issue of equality. It is as it

was for as in the military. Uh. It is those young men and women who raise their right hand and want to serve our country or are serving our country, who who are transgenders, um, and that we should certainly uh support them. It's very very similar to the gays in the military issue. That doesn't mean that they're that we shouldn't figure out a way to to uh support them medically. I think it's been widely reported that it's

really not very much money to do that. The other thing that about the transgender issue is the lack of knowledge about what that's really all about. And I think that lack of knowledge oftentimes scares people off. UM. I've actually talked to the current chairman, General Joe Dunford about this, who uh similar to the don't ask, don't tell uh you know, his position is everybody who is able ought to be able to serve and and our interests shouldn't

focus on that aspect of an individual's life. We have run out of time. Edward Mollan, thank you so much on the support and Monday greatly appreciate your attendency is the former chairman of our Joint Chiefs of Steph. This is gonna be a great conversation made greater because I'm gonna really try to get out of the way. And Eli Lake on National security talked to one of our great pros. I'll bring him in. Ask one question and

Eli tom Rix is all yours. Mr ris Uh, you were very visible this weekend as we all try to digest Charlottesville. And what is so important is it brings us back, as Joshua Rothman of Alabama said to the nineties. You've just written on Churchill and Orwell in the nineteen thirties. Do you see similarities between Charlottesville in the nineteen thirties. I do, and it worries me. I think Saturday was

a very bad day for this country. Somebody said it was the worst day of the Trump presidency, and I agree. I think we're seeing increasing political violence in the streets and increasing acceptance of political violence, and both those things worry me. I think that political violence has no place in America, that it's getting legitimate, and it worries me when I see both the right and the left kind of applauding these attacks. Wow, that is a that's a

very good point. But let me push back a little bit because I think I disagree with you on the question of whether this is similar to Europe in the nineteen thirties. Can you talk about I mean, do you don't you think that one major difference at this point is that in the nineteen twenties and nineteen thirties, fascism is an idea was accepted among many eat political, economic, and cultural elites as a totally legitimate way to organize societies.

That is not necessarily the case today. Do you think that we really are in danger of a Republican Party or an element of American politics to bring back these odious and hateful ideas of white supremacy and so forth and so on. I think that we're seeing white supremacy granted a place at the American political table that I had been assumed, as I think many of us did, would no longer be there. Um, I'm not saying that

fascism is necessarily the answer. I do think that reactionary politics are um in the middle of the American political mainstream. Right now, we have perhaps the most reactionary president in American history, someone who does not explicitly reject the support of fascist, white supremacists and other right wingers. I don't know where this is all going to go, obviously. What

I'm saying, though, is the certainty. The political turmoil remind me of the nineteen thirties, especially when we see opinion given privilege over fact, where people say I don't care what the facts are, I have my opinions. That reminds me of in the nineteen thirties when people said, well, communism is good, so anything that helps communism is good.

So lying it's good if it helps communism. And this is what George Orwell so vigorously opposed when he got up and said, look, I'm a leftist, I'm a dedicated socialist, but I will not lie to help my cause. And for this he was roundly denounced, as was went in Churchill on the right when he got up and said, Naziism is wrong. You cannot compromise with it. And all you were doing with the policy of appeasement, which was

the official British policy in nineen thirties. All you do is make it more likely that we're going to have a big, violent war. What does the president do? What does general this general that, the other eight generals in the administration? What do they do with the so called nationalists in the White House? Do they just fester? Is that the prescription we all look forward to. Um? I actually have changed my mind about that's. Initially UM, I was a supporter of the idea that it was good

to have adults in the room. And so when friends of mine said to me, Hey, Tom, you know, I think I might go into the administration. I know you're anti Trump. What do you think My response was looked, it's good to have good people in the US government. I've changed that to the extent that I think it's bad to have competent people right around Trump. All they do is make him more effective. UM. I want good people and the rest of the government Defense Department, State Department.

But I think Trump is so incompetent that we should let that be our is saving grace. Just let the White House be a sinkhole of incompetence. And so I think the Master is a competent guy. Have you better for him to leave and just have one of Trump's um no, not leave the National Security adviser, thank you so much? On short notice today the author Thomas Rix. Of course, he's taken home a few prizes, starting with Pete along the way Churchill and orwell the Fight for Freedom?

Is it wonderful? Yes, Eli, I read it. It's one of my favorite books of the years, saying, just a just a wonderful window into the thirties. It takes away the World War two romance, if you will, of Churchill and talks about the realities of where Churchill wasn't then. Or well, following on, Eli, it's amazing the different emotions or what do you think we will hear? Quickly, Eli like, what will you hear from the president of three PM? Well, I continue what I hope to hear, which is a

robust and full throated um denunciation of these white supremacists. Um. I realize I'm in the minority, I guess among the guests who been on the show today. But I don't. I think there's a difference between people who have um of you that I should say I don't agree with On immigration or free trade, which I also don't agree with, and then people who are truly interested in I guess restoring uh kind of Jim Crow era America. It's attention, to say the least. Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg

Surveillance podcast. Subscribe and listen to interviews on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, or whichever podcast platform you prefer. I'm on Twitter at Tom Keene David Gura. Is that David Gura before the podcast? You can always catch us worldwide. I'm Bloomberg Radio