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US Core Inflation Tops Forecasts

Mar 12, 202438 min
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Watch Tom and Paul LIVE every day on YouTube: http://bit.ly/3vTiACF.
Bloomberg Surveillance hosted by Tom Keene and Paul SweeneyMarch 12th, 2024
Featuring:

  • Bill Lee, Chief Economist at the Milken Institute, on CPI
  • Sarah House, Senior Economist at Wells Fargo
  • Mike Wilson, Morgan Stanley Chief Equity Strategist
  • Bloomberg's Lisa Mateo with her Newspaper Headlines


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Transcript

Speaker 1

Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News.

Speaker 2

This is the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. I'm Tom Keene along with Paul Sweeney. Join us each day for insight from the best in economics, finance, investment, and international relations. You can also watch the show live on YouTube. Visit the Bloomberg Podcast channel on YouTube to see the show weekday mornings from seven to ten am Eastern from our global

headquarters in New York City. Subscribe to the podcast on Apple, Spotify, or anywhere else you listen, and always I'm Bloomberg Radio, the Bloomberg Terminal, and the Bloomberg Business App.

Speaker 3

A good amount of.

Speaker 2

Time here commercial free with William Lee. He's at the Milkin Institute, of course, definitive at the International Monetary Fund, particularly an international and Pacific rim economics and Bill, I'm thrilled to have you out after Jersey with a domestic feel to the rescue. Can it be international disinflation and deflation? Will they export price decline and we will import that price decline to assist America?

Speaker 4

Well, China is the story of disinflation in this world, and what we saw the latest Chinese data is just the opposite of what we're seeing here in the US the consumer is not strong enough to keep prices up, and the certain the factory prices are coming down like crazy. And the issue is how many goods from China are we going to be importing to offset some of the hotter domestic services. And I think Trip Paul's going to

tell you not enough. China will be some help on the good side, but we already see that downward trend. And the thing that worries Chair Powell, however, is the domestic services. And unfortunately that the disinflation from the rest of the world just isn't going to do much to the price of auto mechanics and the price of auto insurance, the price of healthcare, which are the elements of core inflation that the FED is worried about.

Speaker 5

So talk to us about some of the spin out of China here, Bill. I mean, for me, you know, when I look at China deflation, and certainly that CPI print came in a little bit hotter than expected, I just disregard that, right. I mean, it's still about PPI in China. It's still about you know the fact that it's really I mean, prices are really coming under pressure.

There on the property sector. Talk to us about some of the spin we're hearing about local government finance vehicles and the fact that it seems like Beijing may finally be willing to let some of them actually default.

Speaker 4

If I'm hearing that correctly, Damen, you've hit the real issue of China run in the head. Right now, China's economy is tottering because the shelter market, the property market is in disarray. And right now, so much of wealth in China is tied up in the property market. It's seventy percent of household wealth that the government is going to have to try to do something to support it.

But now with suddenly what we're finding is that the government's telling us, you know, it may well be that some property developers may have to default and have to go out of business. That I think is a shocker because right now, I think that the reform that's needed in China is the reform property market that disperse well so that it just doesn't stay in the property market. But more importantly, the housing market in China requires some kind of government stops to give a affordable housing.

Speaker 6

That's well known.

Speaker 4

But do we have enough of a rental market so that the young urban professionals can actually rent rather than buy. And unfortunately, the way financing is done in China is that local governments depend on selling property to property developers to build new houses in order to survive, and that process is something that government seems to be wanted to perform.

Speaker 2

Build league with us with the Milken Institute Commercial Free in this hour, William Lee with us and then Jane Foley will join us from Rabobank. A nice lift out of the market, as we said with Ira Jersey, a churn there out of the news. But clearly there's a feeling your buoyancy and equities. The VICS comes into fourteen point five six, the fixed incomes space.

Speaker 3

This is very deceptive.

Speaker 2

You've got pretty much unch, ten year, unch, two year, I got a little bit of thirty bound love higher yield, But where you really see it's.

Speaker 3

The inflation is just to yield.

Speaker 2

Damien sis back to one point eighty two percent, and I'm sorry, we've basically gone round trip yep, back to inflation and real economy buoyancy. I guess this is how I would put it off that ten year real yield.

Speaker 5

Tom, and I'd like to highlight what Bill said, I mean, and it's not really about China. It's about the inflation dynamic and how it grips the globe, not just the US. Here and today, underneath the CPI print we saw here in the US, we got some inflation data out of India, Germany, and Brazil, and outside of Germany, which was flat Indian, Brazil.

I mean, you're seeing price pressures rise. So you know, you know, when Bill talks about you know, PPI intflation in China and how that's being exported to the rest of the world. You know, Bill, take us through that calculus. How are we seeing inflation actually accelerate in some of these markets outside of the US.

Speaker 4

Well, the man of supply as you know, Damien, and on supply side, we don't see a lot of commodity prices going up because the rest of the world is economy, especially when we include China, just isn't strong enough to push up commodity prices to offset a lot of the deflationary trend on the industrial side. And for countries like the United States where the domestic service component is such an important part of overall inflation, we're somewhat insulated. We're

really relatively closed economy when it comes to inflation. Other countries that are much more dependent on goods and their baskets are much more heavily dependent on goods rather than services. That's where the deflationary impact is the greatest.

Speaker 3

Got a great team here at Bloomberg. This is the secret of the terminal.

Speaker 2

We've got terrific top live market coverage riding the herd on inflation. Jis obviously quoted worldwide end occurring. Chris Ancy out there today in Sebastian Void some of the insights Damian Sasaur. The food index was unchanged except for Paul Sweeney's eighty six dollars steak out in the rockies somewhere. The core measure was boosted by shelter. You think in New York City airfares, You think motor vehicle insurance, what's a cost to ensure a car? Used to be like

an afterthought? Forget about that. It's like it's like actually tangible apparel. That's you know, I mean, that's Lisa, She's going nuts on that. And what in God's name is recreation?

Speaker 3

I mean, I don't know what that.

Speaker 5

Definitely I can define recreation for you, but I prefer not to do it on airtime.

Speaker 3

Okay, why don't you go to Billy here?

Speaker 5

I mean Bill, Bill, you hit on I mean for something. I mean like this is just a clinic. I mean commodities, terms of trade, the importance of goods pricing and how that impacts markets, not just you know outside of the US who aren't so relying on it. Taught to us a little bit about that, talked to us about El Nino. I mean, we've had bad coffee harvest in Vietnam, poor

cocoa yields in Africa, weeks soybing crops in Brazil. How is commodity prices or how are commodity prices, sorry, impacting inflation in other areas upon it.

Speaker 4

I think one thing we forgotten is that we have a war in Ukraine. Ukraine is a bread basket for the world in terms of wheat and cooking oil exports, and so what we actually have is a shortage in many many areas. Now it is offset by a lot of bumper harvests elsewhere. But I think that that uncertainty on the on the commodity supply side is something that the markets really haven't priced in.

Speaker 6

For the rest of the world.

Speaker 4

But the US trade is someone who's really focused on what impact this had on the consumer of the United States, and that really has very little because the other other countries have offset that uncertainty. But certainly a lot of the emergent markets depended on the Ukraine is really getting hurt.

Speaker 2

Standard in poor futures five to two, one seven up six tens of a percent now thirty nine thousand and three hundred. I'm not in the forty thousand watch yet. John Faraoh asked me that this morning. Is it not in the forty thousand watch yet? Nasak up as eight tens of present? Billy I had a couple more questions for you, and this goes off your heritage at the IMF. Grgavin Companies stopped me cold pushing on a year ago with a five year view that was remarkably tepid on

global growth, including America. Is that five year gloom being tested right now? Does a new productivity at some point? Is it going to make for a more optimistic IMF five year view?

Speaker 4

The IMF right now is continuing to bring down its longer term forecast because population growth in the developed countries is slowing down tremendously. But as you know, technological progress is something that could offset.

Speaker 3

Some of Right.

Speaker 4

We both live through the computer PC revolution of the nineties, and the data show that we got a huge productivity boost with the introduction of the computer and PC during the nineties, and unfortunately it was transitory. It did, but the translatory it was over a decade, and it doubled

the profits per unit of output during that period. We we're seeing the beginning of a similar revolution AI, and I'm very confident that would they be seeing that kind of productivity boost and that will offset some of the price pressure that we're seeing, but it won't do it for another two three years, and that's what the FED

is looking forward to. And markets have not price dated properly because the neutral rate is going to be much higher over the next three to five years than markets are anticipating.

Speaker 2

Robert from a goalie camp up near Hamilton. It's up near Lake Marine. I don't know if it's called Gator. Hamilton Auto Insurance up twenty one percent year over year, Robert, thank.

Speaker 3

You for that. Billy.

Speaker 2

I want to dovetail in your wisdom in your experience with my book of the Summer. Chris Miller's Chip War. Whither Taiwan? How fragile does a giant like Bill Lee see Taiwan in their integrated circuit system?

Speaker 4

Right now, you have to remember that Taiwan is going to be your source of the productivity revolution and ai revolution. If China really decides to make use of the of the disruptions in the world and the joke little giplical uncertainty by doing something to Taiwan to threaten its independence, you're going to start seeing that supplies shortages of the sort thing you never saw before. COVID's gonna look like a little drop in the bucket compared to what a

shortage of chips will do. And I think that's the market. That's something the markets have completely underestimated. So I think the risk of a sustained huge productivity shock and a supply supply shortage of chips is very, very real if China starts to divert attention from its uh withering economy by focusing on a little bit more aggressive posture to try to race nationalism.

Speaker 2

And this goes to Erinal Stravitaz's new book twenty fifty four. Today, thank you James Travenas for being with us before Billy, Damian.

Speaker 5

Bill, bond's a rallying here. I mean, we've got the two europe to down two BIPs, we've got the tenure down two BIPs of four eight percent, and the dollar is rallying. Bill, talk to us about that. I'm sorry, falling taught to us about the runway for the dollar to weaken in this environment. I mean, you know, most people would think, you know, structurally speaking, real yields or you know, yield differentials here in the US are going

to remain wide. You know, you've got the US exceptionalism story taught to us about the runway for dollar weakness.

Speaker 4

Here, Damian, I think the story of that you were just talking about that we got a little bit harder print on inflation. And yet the fixed income markets are pretty confirmed with the fact that we are in a declining rate environment. So they're very confident that Suir Pal will be lowering rates. The issue is how much, how soon, and how fast. And it seems like the burst of inflation that we saw today isn't enough to convince markets that the FED will be deterred from its downward path.

Speaker 5

You know, and Bill I touched on yield differentials, and there's no wider yield differential than you look at, you know, any currency and China, right, I mean you look at yields in China the ten years at what two thirty four now, I mean just off an all time low. Talk to us about this funding currency dynamic with the BOJ now potentially tightening rates and you know, basically the the you know, you know, Japan no longer being a

funding investors paradise. How you've seen some switching into the China yuan, into a currency that seems weak and might even weaken further.

Speaker 4

Yeah, absolutely, And in fact, I think the markets have really misplaced its its its attention on the Japanese yen. Yes, it is the funding currency, but the Japanese yen is also something that that has traditionally been a domestic currency and domestic uh bond market because most of the holders

of jgb's are Japanese. And I think the fact that China has really pushing its way into becoming a reserve currency and digitizing it's its economy, digitizing its currency, trying to get more and more emerging markets to use it as a transactions currency, that the prominence of the run and be in the future is going to be much greater than I think that people realize, and that may be that that next competitor for the US dollar prominence.

Speaker 2

Billy, thank you so much with the Milkin Institute. What a what a smart idea for your team. Greg Daka joins us right now with Ernst and Young. I'm sorry, I'm old school.

Speaker 3

It's not e y. Yeah, I know you got eight consultants saying it's e y, it's Ernst and Winnie.

Speaker 2

Okay, my grandfather's accounting firm was Ernstan Winnie.

Speaker 3

So I'm always there.

Speaker 2

E y E I E y parthenon. Greg dot Co is with us right now. I want you to talk about the disconnect of fancy people like you and our listeners and viewers are going these people are nuts. There's no disinflation. I get that more than any other comment from the fans out there. There's a massive disconnect between society and people like you.

Speaker 7

Right There is a massive disconnect, and that's because most people don't necessarily think about inflation the same way as economists and academics think about inflation. When we think about inflation, it's essentially the pace of growth of prices of costs of wages. Most people think in nominal terms. Most people think in terms of levels, right. They think about cost levels when they go buy their groceries, when they're by gas or even business leaders think about wage levels in

terms of the aggregate wage bill or company. Tom is the disconnect?

Speaker 3

Tom?

Speaker 5

Did you see Greg Daka when he came in, he brought his laptop. He was ready for this inflation print. He had a lot with him, a lot of equipment, a lot of hardware. Greg, what was your big takeaway?

Speaker 2

And I take you point He walked in and plugged it in stack isle of dimmed.

Speaker 1

You know, I don't know if you caught this. Yesterday.

Speaker 5

Gary Cohene, former CEO of Goldman Sachs, was on the tape talking about exactly where we're talking about the additive nature of inflation. Right, we think of it as a rate of change, but your average you know, consumers thinking of levels of price levels. You know, talk to us about your big takeaway? What should the US concus be taking away from this print?

Speaker 7

Well, I think generally we're still moving in the right direction, so there's still that disinflationary impulse. It's going to be bumpy. It was bumpy on the way up, it's going to be bumpy on the way down. But the thing is that if you look back at price levels relative to twenty nineteen, we're about twenty twenty one percent higher in terms of price levels on average relative to pre COVID. That is what most people are thinking about when they think about inflation.

Speaker 3

Pro tip I measured in dog food exactly.

Speaker 2

It's way above the number you just everybody, everybody's got a different thing. I'm sorry, what Vet Bill, No, it's Gainsburger's What Vet Bill and Canal Fee are charge of me is is ridiculous.

Speaker 3

We're on Apple CarPlay.

Speaker 2

We are commercial free across this inflation report.

Speaker 3

What a great.

Speaker 2

Lineup, Ira Jersey to Bill Lee, Greg Dakl joining as some Uy parthenon right now on YouTube.

Speaker 3

It's just real simple, folks. Go to YouTube. You're in your bedroom, you're in your living room, you're in your whatever.

Speaker 2

Go to YouTube, search Bloomberg Podcasts and we are there with a wonderful live chat as well.

Speaker 5

Damien, Yeah, talk to us about shelter. We talked to us about some of the components within the print we just saw. Greg, I don't know if you had a chance to take a look, I mean, talk to us about the supercore, anything there that we should be taking away.

Speaker 7

Well, I think, generally speaking, housing inflation is still the area of concern. When it comes to overall inflation. We still have shelter cost inflation in the six percent vicinity. It needs to come down to around four percent to bring headline inflation and core inflation back down towards that two two and a half percent range. We're not there yet. We know there was a lot of noisiness in the

January data. The BLS had a commodity price webinar to explain where some of the volatility came from, especially on the owner's equivalent side of the picture. But we are seeing this inflation continue to filter through. It's just taking a little bit longer from a FED perspective, from an economist perspective, from an investor's perspective. Inflation is still moving towards that two percent target, and that will allow the

FED to gradually ease monetary policy. Not in March, not in May, probably in June.

Speaker 5

Well, I mean that's interesting, So June we're looking for it. But you know, the question I have is, Okay, we can get that cut in June, but then are we expecting successive cuts the way the market's pricing, and I mean what's interesting is if you look at Ois and you look at Decembergreg, and you know this as well as anyone. You know, we're pricing in three four cuts through the end of this year. But my goodness, the probability distribution around what might actually happen by the end

of this year. I think you've got options markets telling you it could be a hike or you can have five cuts. I mean, talk to us a little bit about what the market has right and what it has wrong here on a forward basis.

Speaker 7

I think the key differential here in terms of participants FED participants view of where monetary policy is going to head, where investors think policy is going to head is largely a function of the fact that the FED is heavily data dependent, and that heavy data dependence in a volatile environment is a very risky proposition because anytime you get a reading that's not in line with inflation expectations, with employment expectations, markets start to rapidly reprice expectations.

Speaker 3

You have an.

Speaker 2

EI different cents you people through and then consulting really have a different handle across the fabric of America from market economists and Wallstreet ORNs. What is Ey seeing in terms of GDP spirit out there.

Speaker 7

Well, I think there are two things that we're hearing from our clients that have differentiated our perspective in terms of the economy. Number one, the fact that the labor market is very different today than it was before the pandemic. The value of talent remains much higher. We had been telling a lot of our clients that because that value is higher, we weren't going to see the way of a layoffs that we've seen in prior pre recessionary environments.

That's what's held up the economy. Number Two, there's much less pricing power. That is why I'm confident that the last disinflation mile will not be the most difficult. More price in sensitivities, reduce markups. Those are the types of dynamics that in the end really drive inflation. It's not about the month over month change in some idiosyncratic factors.

Speaker 2

Thank you, Greg Docom, I greatly appreciate it. Ey parts then women from Michigan thrilled to have with us this morning for this entire half our Michael Wilson. He is at Morgan Stanley, coach Effequity Strategies CIO, and among other things, author and driving force behind Really Smart thirty six page research pieces.

Speaker 3

On what matters at the moment. Mike Wilson, good morning.

Speaker 1

You.

Speaker 2

People have done a tour to force on AI and on what's to come. Does Mike Wilson believe in the stock market and believe in AI?

Speaker 6

Well, good morning, Tom, Yeah, thanks for having me. We do believe in AI.

Speaker 8

We've been probably more front footed on this theme as a firm over the last year year and a half. And the way I would characterize it is is that this is the next big probably the next big productivity driver, but it's not going to happen immediately, and we're seeing that manifest itself in the stock market right so so far, what's really worked from AI has been what we call the enablers, the companies that are allowing this new.

Speaker 6

Platform to be developed and built out.

Speaker 8

And we've seen obviously some of the stocks go somewhat stratospheric. And the real opportunity though, is going to be when this technology diffuses across the economy.

Speaker 6

And that would be the adopters and that's very very early days.

Speaker 8

Now there's been some winners in that already, but boy, it's kind of hard to find them so far. The other theme that we've been really espousing for the last year and a half when we were early on this is this idea of operational efficiency. In fact, many companies adopted that phrase for their own taking because that's what

they needed to do over the last year. As you know, it's been a very unbalanced economy where you have a very heavy handed government influence which is kind of keeping the aggregate statistics strong, and then.

Speaker 6

You have companies that have unique.

Speaker 8

Growth opportunity of these, but then the sort of average company is really struggling still with cost inflation, you know, labor tightness, cost of capital, et cetera. And so efficiency is one way to get around that, right, keeping your cost down.

Speaker 2

And having it mar and I'll dovetail it to Alan Zendner's new productivity, and we're hearing a lot about that on the show.

Speaker 3

Micha Wilson, I'm not going to mince words.

Speaker 2

You've been to Pinata for people that are like I want to participate in the market, but I just don't get the exuberance out there. What's the Wilson meter look like right now? On market exuberance. It don't narrow it down to the silliness of Nvidia, but how effervescent, how exuberant is a market I want to be in, but I'm scared stiff.

Speaker 8

Yeah, I mean, look, there's there's been some some big winners and some big losers. It's been a stock picking environment quite frankly really for the last year year and a half. And look, we had that major low that was made in October twenty two one that we identified as a good opportunity, the one last all we felt was close but didn't quite get there. But of course

we had a huge rally. And what's happened Tom and I think this is a differentiating feature of our view versus others, is we view the.

Speaker 6

Last four to five month rally as.

Speaker 8

Being driven more by very loose financial conditions, extreme liquidity, which is finding its way into the right parts of the market, and that and the parts of the market that are working are what we call high quality growth stocks, and some of those you've mentioned, and some of.

Speaker 6

Those are but it's also it's not just tech stocks.

Speaker 8

Some of the industrial space which are benefiting from some of those heavy handed government programs, for example, some of the consumer spaces having a bounce back at particularly consumer services. And then of course these companies that are being efficient, and that's really what's been working, and it's been so in other words, the market's.

Speaker 6

Been very good at identifying the winners. It's also been very good at identifying the losers.

Speaker 5

Well, I mean, you mentioned efficiency, and you mentioned operational efficiency, and for me, I need you to drill down a little bit more. You know what you know, what indicators are you looking for?

Speaker 6

It?

Speaker 5

We strictly talking operating margins here. I mean, how do you evaluate you know, those sectors you're referring to, like which sectors.

Speaker 1

Are prime to perform?

Speaker 5

Well, given you know that focus on high quality growth, on operational efficiency, on the narrowing of that big divide between the haves and have nots.

Speaker 8

Yeah, it's not really it's not really by sector, dam man. It's more by a company. It's really company specific and we and we've talked about that, meaning within sectors, there are companies that are being more efficient than they're say, they're competitors, and we're seeing it so that once again, it is as you say, the haves and have nots. So I don't think I don't think it's a sector call. It's a company call. It's a very stock specific call.

So that's that's actually a really good environment for active managers who can take advantage of that.

Speaker 6

So we're seeing we're seeing it across multiple industries. It's not just one or two.

Speaker 5

So the MIC is the key identifying those companies that are going to improve their operational efficiency or selecting those companies that have an advantage over their peers.

Speaker 8

It's both and one of the advantages it's just sheer size, having scale, having the ability to kind of manage your cost structure, being efficient with your labor and hiring, and that's a that's a pure scale argument. Then, of course, there are companies who are using various technologies, not just AI to make their existing businesses more efficient.

Speaker 6

There are some you.

Speaker 8

Know, what we've discovered is within AI, ironically, the companies that are actually being the most efficient are tech companies. They're the ones who are actually able to reduce labor and headcamp, particularly encoding. That's one area where it's been extremely efficient, back office, et cetera. So in many ways AI is helping to keep the labor market a little bit.

Speaker 5

Soft, mister Wilson. Sarah, Well, let's talk about your note from yesterday. Multiple expansion kind of accounting for most of the move we've seen here inequities. But then you cite your colleague Andrew Sheets, and this is where what I love. I want to talk about M and A volumes. I want to talk about thirty five billion of IG issue is expected this week after three weeks straight of fifty billion. Talk to about which sectors are witnessing M and A activity and why.

Speaker 6

Yeah, I mean, the conditions are there for M and A.

Speaker 8

I would say the headwinds are that the cost of capital is still pretty high. We haven't seen any rate cuts yet. And then even though we're seeing issue events at the IG level, that's that's pretty robust. A lot of that's for refinancing and also for you know, for existing deals that are in the market. The other constraint, of course, is that we just had a big increase

in valuations. I would say, you know, last fall was getting closer to a point where the buyers and sellers were getting to a point where maybe the price was right, and now, of course those prices have elevated again.

Speaker 6

And we have stars in the eyes of some of the sellers.

Speaker 8

So I think this is going to be once again the story for twenty twenty five twenty six as we kind of settle into whatever that, you know, the new new administration, where the existing administration stays in power. I think those are also wild cards for M and A. So the conditions are there. We're not seeing a ton of activity right now. We're hopeful that will pick up later this year into twenty twenty five.

Speaker 5

So I just want to recap here. Valuations are relatively rich, interest rates are relatively high, and yet volumes and activity you're picking up. Go figure, I wonder what's going on in the corporates week. But let's go back to a

little bit of what you mentioned before operational efficiency. So in this environment, you know, in an environment where yeah, okay, you know, cost the capital is relatively high and valuations are rich, what should companies be doing to improve their operating and their profit margins here?

Speaker 6

Well, obviously if you have some top line, that solves a lot of problems.

Speaker 8

So I think a lot of you know, companies are trying to figure out what the next product cycle is, you know, how can they be different than their than their competitors and drive top line growth.

Speaker 6

I mean, that solves all of your That solves many of your problems.

Speaker 8

Look, I think what corporate America is very good at, it has been very good effort for decades is cost cutting. Okay, we're world class in cost cutting. And I think they've done that. I mean, most companies have cut costs. They

have kind of whittled things down to the bone. And what's interesting is in the last six months if you go back to the fall of last year, right so October, and this is something that doesn't get discussed, and at the end of October, it looked like we were sort of careening towards the wall, right, I mean, stocks were basically making new lows. Companies were starting to talk about maybe a layoff cycle they were going to have to

do that. And then of course came in this big short squeeze at the back end of the treasury market.

Speaker 6

And then the fan aquiesced and said, hey, we may be cutting race next year.

Speaker 8

And that provided the hope that raids are going to come down, and so we bought time.

Speaker 6

And what we're seeing now.

Speaker 8

Is this big hockey stick and expectations for the second half of this year. Okay, there's a big if you talk to most companies and listen to most companies what they're saying. Yeah, first quarter still things are kind of squishy maybe the first half, but the second half things are going to.

Speaker 6

Really pick up. And that may happen. But I'll say right now, if it doesn't happen, then we're going to see more cost punning in the summer. And that's probably why. You know, the risk of a hard.

Speaker 8

Landing is still up exterminated, right, you still have a thirty percent chance that there's going to be a laugh cycle if business doesn't pick up in the second half.

Speaker 3

Of the year.

Speaker 2

What I want to talk about now, folks, Daman helped me out here, Mike Wilson, the Vogue Now and Margan Stanley. I assume it's not doing this is the two x Mike Wilson fun, the three X Mike Wilson fun, the four x Mike Wilson fun. Mike Wilson on the benefit but the tragedy of leverage. We're at that giddy season. How does this work out, Mike Wilson, how does it play out?

Speaker 6

Well, I mean, you're talking about the benefit of leverage and investing or in the.

Speaker 2

Econmy I would say in investing right now, we're seeing we're inundated here at Bloomberg, surveillans every day with the two x, this ETF, three x, even four x.

Speaker 3

All my raidars up.

Speaker 8

Mike Wilson, Well, that's just the greed versus fear dynamic. I mean, I think you know, obviously last fall we hit a lot of fear priced in, and now we have a lot of greed priced in, so we are seeing speculative activity pick up in a meaningful way. I would say the daily expiration options market is probably your single best example of that. We have a lot of people sort of you know, in the stock market is like prop bets almost like draftings and things like that.

That that to me is you know, signs that exuberances is pretty high.

Speaker 6

Now that doesn't have to end in tiers.

Speaker 8

Okay, leverage isn't always bad, but you know, we have a situation where people are reaching for risk because you know, there's poem, Yeah, and you know that's that's where the pendulum is right now, Tom and and that's why we're probably a little bit more cautious in some of our peers.

Speaker 6

You know, I think a lot of folks all they've done.

Speaker 8

Is raise their price targets based on higher multiples, and we're not willing to do that because we don't see the condition.

Speaker 6

We don't see the justification for higher multiples.

Speaker 8

Given that we have basically no earnings growth across the broader economy, a situation is still kind of a difficult operating environment, and so we're going to be very selective. And that's why we think it's you know, you got to be got to be a stock picker here. You can't just buy the index.

Speaker 5

Well, I mean, Michael, you're hitting right on the point here. I mean, look, volatility has come off a bit here, but it just doesn't feel that way, right, And I think that goes down to the type of investor you are.

You know, I wonder if you could talk to our audience a little bit about you know, those traders who are in the market who look at volatility on a day over day basis, right delta hedgers for example, guys who have to deal with real volatility, and those who are more longer term, let's call it carry investors.

Speaker 1

I'm a fixed income guy, by the way, so.

Speaker 5

They're looking at volatility on a month over month basis, and from that metric, vall looks, yes, relatively low. Right, So talk to us a little bit about those divergent investments. I guess theses, those those those those investors who have to look at you know, option markets involve and leverage and assess it for what it is.

Speaker 1

It means different things to different people.

Speaker 8

Well, I think I characterize it maybe a little bit differently and just say that index level ball is very low, but single stock ball is still quite high.

Speaker 4

Right.

Speaker 6

We have a high dispersion within the.

Speaker 8

Equity market, right, single stocks volatility, sector volatility, even RBS. But then that the index level has been very compressed, and one of the factors, one of the reasons for that is that there are a lot of new products out there that are fall selling strategies. Okay, and over time, I would agree that selling ball is always better than buying ball, Okay, Like that's just a better strategy, and you know, these products are kind of keying off of that.

So there's there's been a tremendous amount of downward pressure on volatility because of these ball selling strategies. And I think, you know, that's a bit of an illusion.

Speaker 6

Okay, right, there is plenty. There's plenty of opportunity within the market from a volatility.

Speaker 8

Standpoint, but once again, it's at the single stock level, not the index level.

Speaker 2

Mike Wilson's generously you to be with us for a half hour. You will be out on single best idea our new podcast here.

Speaker 3

We'll do that.

Speaker 2

You'll see that later this afternoon in the digital mix and Processing here at Bloomberg Podcast.

Speaker 3

Mike Wilson is with Morgan.

Speaker 9

Stanley, your daily roundup in English the front pages around the world, brought to you by Lisa Manteo.

Speaker 10

All right, well, starting with Walmart, they want to teach their store managers about compassions. This was in the New York Times.

Speaker 1

Okay.

Speaker 10

Every year they bring together their store managers at the headquarters to talk about how to relate to workers. The problems that the workers say the company's business practices have not been the best. They complain about physical, mental, emotional health. So Walmart wants to change that. So they bring all these managers down. So the New York Times got inside to this this meeting. But I mean you've heard about it.

Walmart like sweetening the deal right, increasing, Yes, they're increasing rates, but it's the.

Speaker 5

Feeling, team building feelings. Yes, I like team building exercises. When I started in this business, Leaman Brothers, I was an associate there. They had a team building exercise. We went away to some junket. It was amazing. They took me to carried me. They put me through a hoop. It was unbeateable.

Speaker 1

You had to see. It's about solving problems.

Speaker 10

We need a team building.

Speaker 3

You know, it's called okay.

Speaker 2

You got twenty five people at Walmart who are the top three performers.

Speaker 3

Lift the compensation.

Speaker 1

Next there you go, h okay.

Speaker 10

More couples are embracing dink dual income, no kids, so they're start craze about the social media TikTok, Instagram. They're posting all about it, and it's morphed beyond just dink.

Speaker 7

D I n K.

Speaker 10

It's gone to dink wads, which is dinks with a dog, sinks, single income no kids dinks.

Speaker 6

Uh.

Speaker 10

They also called dino dual income no offspring. There's all these like acronyms. But here's the thing. It's generating some backlash from parents who are saying, you know, I understand what you're saying. How you know, you you have a lot of freedom, time and money, but you know we have the families and we have all the love behind it.

Speaker 1

So it's back and forth.

Speaker 2

The thing is in the studio here, the interactive broker studio folks is got signal income, three tuitions, two dogs.

Speaker 5

I was a big fan of childless couples back in two thousand and one when I was married. My wife, on the other hand, had a different idea, and so here I am. And I guess I've missed my window to be a dink.

Speaker 10

I have to say I was kind of long.

Speaker 3

The same time, I will say.

Speaker 2

That out of COVID, within this whole social debate, and I don't want to fire. I mean, we just lost four hundred people on YouTube live chat. But I just would suggest out of COVID, we've learned that we need some form of childcare revolution in America. Oh yes, and we need some form of policy where well meaning twenty year olds of thirty year old's going. I could never afford the life of Damien Sasa that's happening daily. His textbook bill in Miami. How much was the text bills?

Speaker 5

We're not going to talk about We're not going to talk about my son got a scholarship to University of Miami's great students, so kind of you know.

Speaker 3

How much were that books? The first semester online?

Speaker 1

Tom, It's online, okay, but still just textbooks.

Speaker 5

I'm worried about ubers. I'm worried about you know, I mean God in Miami, which kills you.

Speaker 2

And the other thing is that go the year abroad and they go Can I go to Florence this weekend?

Speaker 3

You know, I mean there's that next Can.

Speaker 2

You adopt me?

Speaker 3

Okay?

Speaker 10

We're going to the Financial Times right now. They're talking about the UK Competition Watchdog. They're launching an inquiry into veterinary markets. They're saying that pet owners could be overpaying for medicines and prescriptions. I mean you've said that a number of times here, Tom, about how the high cost of pet you know, taking care of your pet.

Speaker 3

Weather on the phone the other day. Yeah, I mean, I've got it.

Speaker 2

I'm going away and you know, kennel feet will only stay at the best That's why there is to it. The vet bill coming back from a five day soiree is more than the hotel in parents. It's great And what's great about my vet is you make It's called the Horaceman School of Vet Dairy Medicine. I just make the check right out the horace man.

Speaker 5

My wife to wait, take're I have my snoop, my mini Golden Dude, and my wife doesn't let me take them to the vet anymore, her to the vet anymore because the last time I did that it cost us a lot of money because the veterinarian told us she may have a little heart murmur. You know, it's like, oh, let's get that taken care of and tested some thousands of dollars later.

Speaker 1

I mean, you go, figures it's something. It's really something. I don't it's you know, the dogs, just like I love no dog, No dogs for me, all right.

Speaker 10

Finally, Airbnb, have you ever been to one? I know I've been to one where they have the security cameras in there and there's instructions for you as to how to turn it off and then how to turn it back on when you leave. Well, Airbnb, they're just saying that's enough. They're banning the use of all those security cameras. It starts April thirtieth, So this change on their on their policy and account holds. They could be removed if they don't comply with it, so they can be taken off.

Speaker 7

But there are a.

Speaker 10

Few things that still are allowed. Hosts they're still able to use, like the doorbell cameras, they can still use those, and they can use noise decipel monitors, which I've actually encountered.

Speaker 3

Is the airbnbs, Yeah.

Speaker 1

But I believe it is.

Speaker 7

Yes.

Speaker 5

My question for you, Lisa's how are they going to enforce this? You know, I mean, who's going to snop somebody in their own home from putting a camera in the bathroom?

Speaker 1

You know, Well, so let's do it.

Speaker 10

So people who visit, they'll complain, they'll write into AIRBNBA cameras so.

Speaker 1

They didn't see the camera in my bathroom. I'm sorry, no bathrooms.

Speaker 3

Thank you.

Speaker 2

Yes, the newspapers with Lisa Matteos, Thank you, Lisa anytime. This is the Bloomberg Saveillance Podcast, bringing you the best in economics, finance, investment, and international relations. You can also

watch the show live on YouTube. Visit the Bloomberg Podcast channel on YouTube to see the show weekday mornings from seven to ten am Eastern from our global headquarters in New York, City, Subscribe to the podcast on Apple, Spotify or anywhere else you listen, and always on Bloomberg Radio, the Bloomberg Terminal, and the Bloomberg Business app.

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