The Optics of This Administration Are Hideous, Stavridis Says

Find Bloomberg Surveillance on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, Bloomberg dot Com and of course on the Bloomberg Let me go down to Charles Powell. He's remember the House of Lords. Joins us from our studios in London, where Tom Keen is all week and Lord Power. Let me just get you to react to to what we've seen today. Of course we've got data on manufacturing, industrial production as well the trade gap in the UK. Give me your reaction to what we've heard from the BOE today. Well, mine is

not a particular skill. Three, I'm not. I'm unsurprised. As the short answer, I didn't expect to see interest rates go up. I think a month before an election would be any way quite sporting to try and do something like that, even though across the bank of being it is independent. So no, it sounds to be thoroughly sensible as any man. Let me let me get your your your sense of word things stand with Brexit. At this point we have a negotiations continuously press ahead of the

snap election on the eighth of June. Give us at your perspective on what campaigning is like at this point. The import of this election that we face here in less than a month's time. Now, well, it's quite clear the reason that Mrs May called an election was to

strengthen her hand in the negotiations over Brexit. She had quite a narrow majority in the House of Commons and merely sixteen votes, and not everyone in the party would agree with everything she wants to do, so she needed a bigger majority, and so she's staking all on getting that bigger majority. We shall see four weeks today whether she succeeds. But the opinion polls seem to be fairly

strongly in her favor. The b we here reducing its growth forecast at to one point nine from two percent for so long after the weight In the wake of that Brexit vote, the first Brexit vote, uh, so, many economists were telling us that the effects on the economy were more muted than many expected. What's your sense of growth right now in the UK? Are we seeing a Brexit effect in a way that we didn't in the immediate aftermath of that vote. I'm not sure how much

of it is really affected by Brexit. I think the growth rate was bound to sort of wobbles a little bit, but it hasn't wobbled greatly. I'd still be pretty optimistic about Britain and the run up to Brexit, and I think that also the European economies are doing better. Um So I'm unexcited. Let's put it like that. I'm untroubled. I'm unperturbed. I'm not flapping about Brexit. How about the corporate migration we've heard so much about over these last

couple of weeks. We've had various banks outline plans to send a few dozen, a few hundred employees elsewhere. How worried are you about the prospects of that A flight from the city of London. Well, I'm frankly not terribly worried. I've never thought London was a great financial center because

we were in the European Union. I mean, we were a great financial center like New York's a great financial center because of what we are, because of the policy, of the policies, the economic life of this country, the traditions, great experience of the city Europe have very little to do with it. I think banks are taking some sensible precautionary measures, check a few guys over there in Europe

to get the necessary licenses and so on. But don't don't talk now about really locating on a massive scale. It would be pointless. I mean, Frankfurt and Paris are not going to be world financial centers. They really are not. I mean, more people work in the square miles of the city of London live in the whole of Frankfort.

So it's it's all very relative. Lord power with us Charles Powell, member of the House of Lords, from a private secretary and advisor on Foreign Affairs and defense to Lady Thatcher here on Bloomberg Surveillance, Tom Keen with us now at from London, you're more approximate to threaten Neeedle Street, of course than then. I watch your reaction to the news that we got this boarding time taking British accent lesson. So I'm gonna try to come back to New York

with an appropriate and proper British accent. We are honored to have you with us, out Lord Power, with your public service to the nation of long ago and far away. Does the United Kingdom speak to the leadership of Europe now as they spoke to the leadership twenty and thirty years ago? Is the same dialogue and discourse or will it be different? Well, many of the themes are the same, and of course in some areas not covered by the European Union, by which I mean particularly defense and security,

the dialogue will go on unchanged. Obviously, ever matters about our membership of the EU, it's a different sort of dialogue and it's in a difficult phase. You would have read the reports of the famous dinner between Prime Minister Theresa May and the President of the European Commissioner, Mr Yunka talking about us from pretty much of a punch up which went on that. I think that's because we're in the phase before the real negotiation staff when both

sides are sort of squaring up. They're strutting around the ring, beating their chests, flexing their muscles. The serious stuff hasn't started yet. Did John money do that. I mean, I just find the cadence today totally different than what I studied of your well, John money is even before my time. But of course I think the point I would make on that, because there's an ideological belief in European Union amongst the original countries of the European Community, they really

subscribe to a belief and a principle. Much of that is evaporated over the years. You can't get twenty eight countries thinking and feeding exactly the same as the original six. The general aim of closer European Union is officially there, it's written on all the documents, but I don't believe

anyone really believes in Sydney wore as a practical outcome. Cooperation, yes, maybe tighter cooperation between smaller groups of countries within the twenty seven or eight, but not the full the full work. So that's just not going to happen. It's under estimation then, has as the experiment itself failed. No, I certainly don't

think it's sailed. Obviously, one of the main principles, one of the main hopes for it was it would prevent any future war in the middle of Europe, and that I think but further away from hoever, thank god, I need to rip up the script. Am I allowed to do that? I mean, you know, I'm watching Bank of England here and I'm I'm trying to get it up here on my Bloomberg terminal. There we go. It took me a while to type in the keyboard. Is different.

Sterling is lower with a real drop and this of course has to do with GDP forecast and higher inflation as well. What's your first regulation of sterling two dollar? Was it four to one? Yes? It was full to one. I was in at the time because the US can talk to hear about that. You were there for water again And yes, at the time when when the US came out of gold currency started seventy three, Yeah, I was sitting there in Washington. This is your first radio announcement.

I know the BBC. You can be four ft back from the mic there, You've got to be a little closer. But but how do you how do you adjust to the generational sterling devaluation We've seen I think people who have become cylical about it over the years. We've had so many fluctuations in the UK. When you think back to the sort of inflation we experienced in the nineteen seventies and early people see this by comparison as a

calm time, steady time. I think the initial drop of sterling after after the vote on brixit was a bit of a shock, but not an unexpected shock. Really people would have thought that would happen, and it has advantages to It's helped our export figures really quite considerably. So there's no sense of PANDAE cattle the person is losing control. Things are going pretty well. This has been wonderful. My next trip back to London, I'll drag David Gurrow with you and we would love to speak to you and

Daniel Jurgen together. I think that would be just a really special Danielson would be great to be We can't stand you or Lord Paul. Thank you so much, Charles Paul with his public service during the major Thatcher administrations and in Dr Jurgen, if you're listening, we would love to make that happen right now. We can do that right now. Joining us now, James Davids a Fletcher School,

Tough University. We speak to the Admiral about leadership differently than we would have spoken to him two or three or four days ago, Admirals Davids. I'm reading Eric Larabee's incredible one volume on FDR and his Oval Office. Somehow I can't fathom FDR keeping the American press out of a photo op in the Oval Office. I mean, these are unique times. Your interpretation of what you've observed from the White House in the last two days, well, I'm worried.

I think everyone is. Um I'll sort of pin my hopes on hr McMaster, who kind of General McMaster, who wrote an extraordinary book, Dereliction of Duty, the subject of which is the need to speak truth to power. It's about the Joint chiefs during the Vietnam War and how they failed in their duty dereliction of duty to the President of the United States. Uh. It is important in these times that people are unafraid to walk into the Oval Office and tell the President when he is embarking

on a dangerous course. And I think we are in those times. So I'm hopeful that Hr McMaster's voice will be heard. Do those of a military tinge need to speak up? I mean, I understand the discourse of voices need to be heard. I mean the movies would tell me that the Secretary Defense wanders into the office and says, excuse me, sir. Does that happen? Absolutely? And that's okay. We have to respect the institutions, but that respect has

to flow both ways. Tom. In other words, those who hold positions of power must respect them, and those who are subordinate must respect those in power. But there has to be confrontation behind closed doors so that our leaders do not take missteps. You mentioned hr McMaster, the head of the NSC. There was more reporting this week from Eli, like our colleague here at Bloomberg among others, talking about a potential divide among the NSC again, maybe some tension

between the president and an hr McMaster. What's your reaction to that? Do do you get the sense that that continues? And how worrisome is that to you? Uh, It's worrisome, but it is not in my view definitives. From what I can source, hr McMaster continues to have the confidence of the President. He has regular interaction with him. I think his voice will be heard. Now, let's say said hr McMaster is the National Security Advisor. He's opening most

emphatically on Russia, China, North Korea, these domestic issues. I think we have to turn to the Chief of Staff Rance previous and hope that he is speaking proof to power. What's the message from what we've seen unfold here over these last couple of days to other members of this administration positions of power? Does that seem like those positions are more tenuous somehow? Yes, you serve at the pleasure of the president, But it seems like under this administration

that can change rather quickly. It's pretty remarkable to see both the National Security Advisor fired as well as the FBI director in the first hundred and twelve days of an administration. So sure, any job that you're holding in this admit stration must feel more tenuous today than it did four days ago. On the other hand, that is the nature of the system and the nature of the executive branch. The president has power, and people serve at the pleasure of the president. When you hit a policy

you cannot abide, you have the option to resign. Let's hope we don't get to that point where people are walking out the doors. Um At mustavidez. Can you bring Doris Karren's Goodwin's team of rivals over to something as fractious as the Senate? I mean they're above it all. They don't need to read Doris Karen's Goodwin or the Senator McConnell and the rest do They a team of rivals? And uh, I think that we have not seen that

in quite a while. Frankly, you'd have to go back in modern times perhaps to the Reagan tip O'Neill famous linkages. But on the Senate side, Um, typically we've seen collegiality, but over the decades. But now, Tom, you're absolutely right, we see the horses pulling in distinctly different directions. That's to me extremely worrisome because the founding fathers built the Senate to provide stability, to pride, compromise, to rise above

the petty issues. It's not happening. What did you make of that moment yesterday when the Oval Office tour swung open, and sitting there in was Henry Kissinger, A middle of the conversation we've had about the parallels right or wrong to what happened in nineteen three, talking of the optics that you're you're witnessing here from this administration, Well, uh, really extraordinarily bad optics. I mean, you know, sort of what's happening can run on a scale from UH Director Comb.

He did a bad job. The President was within his rights to fire him over to hey, it's a conspiracy because Comy was investigating the Russians. What we what we know for sure is the optics of this are hideous. And it's not just Kissinger in the link to water Gate. Who was the previous visitor in the White House, Lavara, the secret Foreign Minister of Russia. So just badly mishandled.

Just coincidentally, early or in the day, I had a chance to be with former Secretary Kissinger, and I'll tell you he is on his game, and he told me he would be talking to the President about China, North Korea and the European Union in Russia. The President could not get better advice based on everything I know in my interactions even earlier in the day with Dr Kissinger. The President of Turkey is going to be watched in

next week. That's President air Duan. What do you make of the the list of leaders with whom the President has been engaged? Of course, he's invited President to Tarte of the Philippines to come to the White House as well. When you when you look at all the leaders around the world, and then all the leaders that he's invited to the White House. What do you make of that list? It's, uh, it's kind of a mixed picture. I'm extremely concerned about the idea that we would invite the Turte of the

Philippines to the White House. He is he's not the kind of character that we want sitting with the President of the United States. UM. I was also st that's the awkwardness of the interaction. For example, is Angela Merkel the Chancellor of Germany. UM So he's arranged the spectrum in terms of who he's inviting who's actually bringing in.

The key is what are the personal relationships he's building, the most important of which will be with President g One more quick question you want to get you on your day at Fletcher What are the what are the personal relationships as president needs to uh develop with General Madison, with Mr Tillerson. He's got to be in an absolute mind milk with two of them. And here's some good news.

The two of them, Tillerson and Madis are working very very closely together, meeting frequently and also with Secretary of Homeland Security John Kelly. That's a powerful trio. If he means on them for advice, and he continues to reach outside to people like Dr Kissinger. I think he'll be on a good course at least on the international side of his portfolio. Alright, great to speak with you as

always there. Emirald James Tefrita is heading up to the Dirks and Senate Office Building to testify before the Senate Armed Services commit He joined us on our phone lines. Tom always great to hear his perspective. The Dean of the Fletchery School Slam Diplomacy at Tofts University. Brought you by Bank of America. Mary Lynch. Dedicated to bringing our clients insights and solutions to meet the challenges of a

transforming world. That's the power of global connections. Mary Lynch, Pierce, Feeder and Smith Incorporated Member s I p C. There's something new from Bloomberg. It's called Lens. Starting right now, you can use the Bloomberg Io s app off your iPhone or iPad, or our new Google Chrome extension to read any news story on any website, scan it, and then instantly see the news stories relevant market data from Bloomberg. In addition, see all the bios of the key people

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in London. As I fumble here on the Bloomberg, typing k W one commodity, trying hard to get my hard red winter wheat up on the Bloomberg, a man who can help me do that is one Dennis Gartman, of course, of the Gartman lettered. Let's let's let's get this out of the way first. How is hard red winter wheat doing, Dennis, It's boring, Lee boring, It's doing very little. Actually the crop is doing fine. There There were problems last week with excess rain. But in people one might scoff about

software or hard read winter week. But it is the stuff of which bread is made, and bread is still the staff of life and dreams. Bread and dreams, yes, and and the and of dreams. Absolutely so if the crop is doing fine. Thanks very much, Dan, it's great to talk with you. As always, will move move on

down out the matter. As we've been talking throughout the morning all day yesterday about what we've seen in Washington, the firing of James Comey, the now former director of the FBI, and the fallout from that, and we've seen precious little response here in the market. You note in your in your letter yesterday that that might be news in and of itself. Why is that the case? Do you think? Well, it is astonishing how everybody's talking about it.

There are two things everybody's talking about. One, the Cobe incident, and to the lack of volatility. Utterly everywhere in all the markets, there is a total lack of volatility. And perhaps until and you can write this down, volatility will return when it returns, and it won't return until a moment before then. It will return when nobody cares any longer about it, when it has been when it has

ceased to be a topic of conversation. And probably the the COMI incident, now that people understand that it was probably an ungentlemanly manner in which it was done. One doesn't fire people via node. One fires people across the desk, But other than that it probably was understandable. So in the long term of things, not not much effect, to be honest. A book that you and I love Dennis Gartman, Reminiscence of a stock Operator. You were around when Edward

le Favre wrote it, um Edwin LaFave wrote it. Here's a quote. The desire for constant action, irrespective of underlying conditions is responsible for many losses in Wall Street, even among the professionals. That's a quote from another time. What do you do to enjoy not losing money when it's

this boring? Trying to stay upon the sidelines to the best of one's ability, trying trying to buy break ups to the upside, trying to sell break up of the downside, trying to find the charred patterns that one finds interesting that where the fundamentals are are also moving in the same direction, but on balance keeping one's powder dry. It is, it really is astonishing, how boring is the movement from the up from the lower left of the upper right.

And it shall continue tom It is always enjoying, enjoyable. Dennis Gartment. To do a panel or speech with one g Kamensky. Gary Kaminsky with all of his work over the years on making a nut losing money, and he brought up a Dennis Gartment concept. Explain to our audience anti Martin gel theory, where you buy more of something when it begins to go up, you don't buy more something and double down, etcetera, etcetera. Explain that to our audience.

It's it's a very simple concept in life. If you do more of the things that are working and less of the things that are not. As I say in speech after speech, gentleman, if you take flowers to your girlfriend or your wife more often and you get lucky more often, take her flowers on a more consistent basis, and be nicer. Do the things that are working. Yes, it's true. Do the things that are working, and try your best to do less of the things that are not.

If you buy a stock at fifteen and it goes to twenty, the market's telling you that you're right, do more of it. If you buy a stock at fifteen and it goes to ten, the market, the collective wisdom and the stupidity of everyone trading, it's telling you that you're wrong. Why would you do more of something that has been going wrong. So it's a very simple notion. The difference I think between pros and amateurs is that pros will buy new highs. Amateurs are always trying to

buy new lows. This is not a business. I've said this time and time again, and when I deviate from an eye er. This is not a business of buying low and selling higher. This is a business of buying high and selling higher. This is a business of being of shorting something that's already made a new low, because

in all likelihood it shall go even lower. Ask Mr Ackman about the the What what happened as he continued to buy Valiant all the way down from what three dollars to share and he finally sold out at ten. Do more of that which is working, less of that which is not, and it will serve you very well. Dennis will come back with you. But I'm running down here. I have to buy buy flowers. What else should I

be buying at this point? What's another? One's another opportunity to work work argue at this point by by aluminum by ball bearings. Everybody laughs at me for the for the concept of buying America's largest ball bearing manufacturer. But what's more incumbent in economic growth than than the things

that are absolutely important to machinery. Machines can't run without ball bearings, and nobody's paying attention to it except American's large at a ball bearing manufacturer keeps going to new highs. Let's get some economic analysis in real time here, Dennis PPI, there up point three more than than was surveyed. What's your read on the numbers we just got today? Those are rather impressive numbers. Clearly the set wants to see

higher inflation and it's finally getting it. I think what's even more important than the p p I number, which was was well above expectations, and the two point five x food and energy for the year over year is very is well above expectations. But what's interesting is the jobless claims number keeps plunging. To use a uh Tom's term, making newer and lower low is a two thirty six thousand.

The jobs market is getting very tight out there. We simply don't have we we we are running out of laborers on a very quick basis, and you're going to start to see labor rates begin to tip up, I think rather quickly. So in the inflation numbers is really quite surprising. Uh. The the the claims number is even more surprising. And I think inflation is now on the on the horizon. Let's pivot back to London here. We also got inflation data quarterly inflation data from the BOE

this morning. Is Tom mentioned we've seen diminution in in sterling this morning. Uh, Tom, Joey the long and getting killed on it. What's your outlook for sterling? Dennis? You know, at it's very hard for me to be barish of sterling relative to the US dollar. If if, if the the the euro continues to weekend, and I think that Euro probably shall it may drag Sterling down. But quite honestly, I think that we've seen the worst as far as

the cable is concerned. So if you made me do something, if I have had a gun held in my head and I had to buy or sell cable right here, the sterling right here, I'd rather be a buyer than a seller. But you'd have to hold a gun to my head to make me do it. We've gotten quiet, Dennis Gartman on dollar. We had a big leap couple of years ago, and yeah, it's been just sort of training range, but maybe not as range about as oil.

But there it is, is is that the big surprise to come where the optimism gartment has on the US economy. By definition, you get a stronger dollar. I think that the propensity shall be for the dollar to get, if not dramatically stronger, at least the reasonably stronger over the course of the next several years. There we we will tighten monetary policy long before anybody else shall. Our economy is doing reasonably well, thank you, compared to most any

other economy anywhere around the world. So on balance, all things being otherwise equal, calm, the dollar has to go higher, not lower. Bringing your most recent note here, Dennis, say you highlight euro Swissy in light of the election in France. What are you looking for there in that cross? You know what has been happening that it's very fascinating that the Swiss National Bank is really almost the world's largest

macro hedge fund. The Swiss National Bank has been trying its best and had not been succeeding until the election results of last week in trying to keep the Swiss Franc weak. Suddenly since the election, which puts to bed the risks of the Euro collapsing and falling apart. Uh. Suddenly the Swiss franc has has weakened rather dramatically relative to to the Euro. The Swiss have been selling Swiss francs, creating Swiss francs, buying euros, buying dollars, buying in and

taking those currencies and buying stocks. They are now one of the world's largest shareholders, rivaling rivalry, rivaling the the Norwegian UH government fund. And it's astonishing. Nobody's paying much attention to you back. Do you assume, Mr Gartman? Do you assume that ends ugly? All these these things, things such as that almost always end ugly. But for right now they've got the wind at their back, at least for the last week. Let's give them credit for that.

But Tom, you and I have been around a long time. Things like that usually end in a in a very ugly fashion. When shall that happen? Your guess is as good as mine, but it probably shall. Let's been here to the equities markets in the time we have left with you, just about a minute left with you, Dennis Gartman, how are you feeling about US equities right now? Still a bullmarket, isn't it? As I've said for months and months, in a bullmarket, and only prepositions you can have really

aggressively long, pleasantly long, or neutral. At this point, you're supposed to be pleasantly long. It is a bull market, and every time I hear on call on the side of selling it, I regret it. Let's get out in front of the Garment Letter tomorrow. We're going to have our David Abits join us here. Howard. It is an extraordinary morning for all of retail as they witness the further collapse of Macy's. It is a down six ball market from the seventies, it's down some twelve percent today.

I don't have the chart right in front of me right now, Dennis, retail, do you just get out of the way? Is that the Gartment advice? You have no choice, do you? It's retail has been has been distraught and destroyed. Amazon has changed the environment completely. It is even putting pressure upon of all places, Walmart. So mom and Pop may survive, but the middle side stores it is. It is a terrible and dangerous place. So if you have no choice, get out, Dennis. Thank you so much, Dennis Gartment.

The Gartment Letter, we do not have the gartment letter to ship to you by carrier pigeon. We protect the copyright of all of our guests today. David Kerry, New York, I'm talking Keenan, London, England and now joining us is someone who understands retail and understands real estate. Whether it's River Ridge in Lynchburg, Virginia, landmarkt and Alexandria, Virginia, Good Morning FM in Washington, maybe it's out at Northgate Durham, North Carolina, or maybe it's you know, thank you, Silver

City Galeria taught in Massachusetts, Howard. Davidovitz has been to them all. Howard, a workout like Macy's is about real estate, isn't it. Well, it's certainly a big part of it because the stores are too big. You also have to use the real estate to generate new capital to reinvigorate the business. They're doing that. Uh, there're in the process of monetizing a lot of it. Stores have to be downside,

stores have to be closed. The core problem is that a number of years ago Macy's doubled their size and what the main company they both did about sixteen billion at the time. It was a disastrous decision because they got second rate stores in second rate malls. Macy's at the time was number one and number two in every city, and they raced out and what the main company to double their size. When you look back on it, and

of course I said it at the time everywhere. Uh, it was a disastrous decision and they did it, and now they're paying a price, you know, I I we were talking about the Harold Squares store just a few moments ago. How much longer this company can hold on to that? What would it mean to Macy's for Macy's to have to get rid of that piece of real state. Well, they're never going to get rid of that. That's what

you just said is impossible. It won't happen. Here's what will happen in Harold Square is the same thing they're doing in Chicago. It's the same thing they're doing in Minneapolis. The store is way too big. What they can do is monetize it by finding a way to have multi use development, office, hotel, and that's exactly what they will do and it's exactly what it so they'll end up.

You can't. I mean, a million square foot store is nush and that's what they got, so they'll end up with a half a million square footstore or four dred thousand square footstore, which is plenty big. It's enormous, and that's what that's what they'll do it Harold Square. I'll raise a mountain of money and they'll downsize the store. They will never get at Herald Square. Are we still building malls anywhere in this country? Are there any malls

under construction? What is the mall of two thousand seventeen? The mall of two thousand seventeen doesn't exist because we're not building any enclosed mall zero. We're at level zero. We have to close malls. We have to change malls that there aren't any malls were dramatically overstored with dramatically overmalled. The whole thing doesn't make sense. There has to be a huge adjustment take place. How do we get here? How how did it make sense or how did it

make sense on paper? For a time? Well, it made sense because number one, cheap money, that's what drives real estate. Number two, the crazy lunatic analysts who come on radio and televisions, who come on and immediately and ask, well, you gotta grow at this rate? You gotta do this, and that we can't give you this multiple So of course every retailer went completely bananas, dancing to the tune of growth, tremendous growth, because that's what you have to have.

Blah blah, blah blah. That's how we ended up the most overstought country in the world by a factor of fool, which is absolutely astounding, dancing to wolf streets, looney tunes and private equities, crazy attitudes, and that's how we got here. Within this our is merchandizing. I'm looking at the Macy's website. It says trend shop are curated boutique of the latest arrivals, fresh off the runway. Are they cool? The big note they're not cool, and no department store is cool. They're

too big to be cool. If you want to be cool, you've got to have a focused presentation in a specialty store. That's what's cool. So you can't have this gigantic edifice and be cool because young people are not going to go there. So cool is out. But here's what's in the biggest merchandizing change. Macy's is facing and and and they they've been in a statement in a massive sleep for a ten years behind is off price. For ten years, off price has been the most powerful for US and

apparel in America. Norts From has double double the number of off price nords from rackings that I have nords from sacks of fit. Macy's has been asleep and they've done nothing. Nothing woke up, Get Howard. I'm looking at the Zaro website granteds in the United Kingdom, folks from London and York. Today Azara doesn't sell price, They're selling the image, the trendy, the cool. Does price work anymore?

Are we exhausted by ten percent off? I don't think we're exhausted, because if we were, t J Max wouldn't be the leading apparel chain in the world. So I don't think we're exhausted by a good deal. I do think we're exhausted by over promotion that are not real promotions, which traditional department stores like Macy's specialize in, because after they give you the deal, t J Max is still less and all the shoppers know it. So I think

people like promotions that are real, not fake promotions. And Macy's and older department says, I'm not naming me mean all of them specialize in fake promotions and those don't work. Uh. And Amazon is certainly gonna shake and is shaking it all up. They'll do more apparel business than May sees this year. So there's more apparel business than Macy's. Amazon, and they just started David asked a question, so hard

I will say, it's in the crapper. Yeah, And Howard we started off asking about all the walking that you have to do, all the geography that you have to cover. How about virtual geography. When you look at the online stories aside from Amazon, who's doing online retailing? Well, well you want to know who's doing it, Well, the brick and water stores. If you look at Macy's penetration, they're

doing business online. That's pretty damn good. Let's take the best brick and water store in the world and online, the best staples of business online eleven point two billion online. How would they do it? They're in the crapper. In other words, it didn't help them because they still have

are this real estate to deal with. So no matter how johnline business you have, if you've still got all these courts and all this real estate, you're in that bank to brick and water Source eight out of the dead. Largest online companies in America are brick and Yeah, and they'll still in the tank. And they will remain in the tank. Our dividivets thank you so much and Carol master sends your kindness regards to you as uh well.

Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg Surveillance podcast. Subscribe and listen to interviews on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, or whichever podcast platform you prefer. I'm on Twitter at Tom Keene David Gura Is that David Gura? Before the podcast? You can always catch us worldwide. I'm Bloomberg Radio, brought you by Bank of America Mary Lynch. Dedicated to bringing our clients insights and solutions to meet the challenges of a transforming world.

That's the power of global connections. Mary Lynch, Pierce, Fenner and Smith Incorporated Member s I p C.