Surveillance: Delayed Recession with Wizman

the Bloomberg Terminal and the Bloomberg Business App. Chure Viceman is a global interest rate strategists and currency strategist at Macquarie with decades of experience in this Are you close to amending your view? Are you close to making a mcquarree shift here, or is it pretty much like Okay, this is what we've been dealt full speed ahead. I think it's fair to say we're gonna delay our view, not a mend our view. Our view has been that there will be a recession in the US this year.

It's clearly not going to start in the first quarter, based on all the evidence we've gathered so far on sales, on on employment trends. But at the on the other hand, surveys are still pointing to a recession coming in the US. Look at the p m I s. They're they're below fifty for both services and manufacturing. When you look at the survey of consumer expectations coming out of New York FED last week, it is still pointing to downbeat expectations.

So are the Michigan surveys, the Conference Board surveys. The consumer, while he might be spending, is not in a happy mood. Tom and I think that we're going to see we're going to consumers not in a happy mood. Given the data I just saw. These are these are fluctuations, These are not trends. Uh. Look, there was a lot of spending in October in the US by the consumer who was afraid of inflation taking away his ability to to

properly gather the gifts he needed to for Christmas. They were afraid of hotel rooms being fully booked, they were afraid of airlines being fully booked. They did a lot of spending in October ahead of what they would normally do. That caused the big jump in consumption. But was that a reflection of a positive mood. Not necessarily. Inflation has a way of making people fear the future and they spend now. As opposed to you that from Barkin yesterday.

That's exactly what arrangements. And then and then look once all that spending got through in October November, we had a pretty dull December in terms of spending, especially when you when you you know, when you adjust by bye bye, where inflation was so genuine seeing a bit of a bounce back from that. Admittedly, I always remind my desk people, though you've gotta take these numbers and and and deflate them, make them in real terms. It doesn't look that great prospective.

You said something interesting there. It's about the inflationary bank trap that you buy now because you were at the prices go up later. It isn't that something that carries on spiral ink. Isn't that something that becomes entrenched that behavior. That's not something typically just fight away. But maybe it can. But it cannot continue forever because obviously budgets are limited. But it also inflation has a way of eventually breaking

the back of that spending. Eventually, you see your real wages of road, you see your real income a road because of inflation, and you're forced to settle into a lower level of spending because of it in real terms. So yeah, it could happen for a short amount of time, Jonathan. It could happen for a few months. It can't happen indefinitely. So what's the head fake here? The witness in December

or the strength in January. We've had three head fix right, We've had We've had employment in January much stronger than most most people surmised. We then had inflation come down less than people's surmise. Now we have a boost to retail spending in January that's greater than people's surmid It's been three They've been three head fakes. Sorry, just reality. Why isn't that just an accurate characterization of where we are?

It is stronger than we think it is. It is an accurate It is an accurate reflection of where we are. What I'm talking about is the future, not now. Right, We're not saying, as I said, that that the recession is starting now, and in fact, it's like I said, there's nothing consistent in the data to suggest that the

procession is upon us. But in the next few months, you're going to start to see the US economy weekend, and it's going to be in the context of a global economy that may actually continue to strengthen our view, for example, on the dollars, predicated on that we don't think that the weakness in the dollars over in part because we see a more deeper recession coming in the US and North America generally than we do in the

rest of the world. And what we've seen here from inflation to retail we have claims tomorrow, John were as data dependent as ever seen. We make jokes about it. We've got a countdown clock. You like our countdown clock. We're all into our contown. Would you put up the arsenal man City countdown clock please? Like the atomic clock. It's remember I remember when you were at bear Stearns and we waited ten days from mel past to approve an edit on what Emmy shy I was doing. I

mean it was slow motion. What does all this hyper ventilating about day to do to us, and critically to the fat It makes us crazy. It makes me crazy from time to time. Admittedly, it's a difficult to to to be be certain in the trends that you're looking at when you see these fluctuations. But look, I'm gonna I'm gonna tell you that, you know, there's a lot of things that the market is getting wrong right now. I think they're underestimating the amount of credit tightness there

is in the US. If you look at the Loan Officer Survey, if you look at the n f I B Survey of Small business lending, it is collapsing. It's at recessionary levels, at least with regard to things that are pertinent to the FED. The credit markets. Things look recessionary or about to go into a recession in the U S. It's Terry, this was great and we appreciate your perspective as oise. Terry Weisman of mcquarie, on an upside Surprise on ret House, says there's something going on

in luxury. Dana Telsey owns the high ground here. She is chief executive officer of Telsey Advisory Group, with a family fabric that speaks of Fifth Avenue at Street. Dana, I'm not going to mince words. The windows are screaming at me post pandemic here except for one house. I want you to explain to our international audience at Curing Group and good morning to Carring have been very kind to me over the years. Gucci is a train wreck. What's this new guy gonna do? At Gucci Sabato di Sarno.

How does he pick up the pieces on their underperformance. One of the elements of luxury that always makes brands reinvent themselves. They have archives. You can go back and reinvent what was successful in the past with the twist of what's modern in today, that appeals to younger consumers, that appeals to an international consumer. He has, frankly the luxury no pun intended of being able to capture everyone's interest. I think you can redo the logo. I think you

can redo the clothing and the leather goods. I think you can put out some new items that become iconic. Look what Daniel Lead did at Bottega and created a bag and he's not berberis now at Berbery that he's gonna make Burbery interesting. And I always believe there's a fifteen year life cycle to a bunch of these designers. What's so important here at Leasta to the aspiration of this you Darbysh of the San Diego Padres just signed a six year extension. He's Japanese and there he is

in the Berbery plaid top to bottom. I mean, that's the that's the world. Dana is living in are the retail sales We've just got a real sort of really speaking to this question on the luxury purchaser, on the wealthy individual, or is this broad based? Broad based? I think it was interesting about the January sales number. Obviously it was very strong. You looked at apparel, you looked at furniture, they showed strength also in addition to a

big uptick in restaurants. Keep in mind, I don't take January as seriously as I take March, April and May. January is about clearing out promotional and clearance goods. You're hearing about retailers having inventory levels that are up twenty and thirty percent in the third quarter and now they're down in the fourth quarter. The fact that you went from up twenty and thirty and now you're negative. You

moved product, some of it at Markdown's. So just to build on that, how much is also fueled and pardon the pun, on this idea that gasoline prices are lower so people had more discretionary spending. You have that, plus take a look at the savings rate. People have been using their savings to to live on. Given the strength and essential prices, we saw food inflation yesterday, and it's high.

Those costs of eggs don't keep, don't come down. So how sustainable is this given the fact that some people are expecting that the savings will go down by the middle or the third quarter of this year. I think these rates are extraordinarily high. I think that we will get more moderation as we go to March. Going forward, I think the comparison with Amicron also definitely boosted sales in the month of January. The other thing we saw

is the flip to physical stores. I think that frankly can hold a little bit the flip to physical stores and perhaps sort of unfortunate for the Federal Reserve, a flip back to physical goods on a sort of the car and the other space. How much do you start to expect a re acceleration of some of the inflation in those areas as people have been sitting on their hands for a bit waiting for things to stabilize and are now getting back in I expect that to re accelerate.

I think we'll see some acceleration there and some of the basic goods. I think some of the discretionary items, though the price increases are over if anything, I've heard of some retailers, some categories looking to maybe reduce prices by five per cent or so from the increases they took last year. Span is over to the Joe Feldman world. Span it over, and it's in retail sales. Is Amazon? I mean we're going from a digital space to talking about the windows and luxury New York City. Who's going

to win the war? I think overall it's going to be the innovative retailers that win the war. What you're saying out there right now, I mean home always remains relevant and important, whether it's remodels, whether it's new and existing home sales that need to pick up in order to drive gains there. But one of the surprising things is you saw pick up an electronics too, And I think new items and new innovation drives electronic sales. I'm

afraid to ask which which electronics sales are. Lisa and I get to see at our house, Um, you're gonna see newness and television's I think it's going to be one of the new items. I think there's gonna be some new items also with laptops, I think the smaller, more micro items become ever more popular. So when do we start to see a subserve diminishing in this momentum and people are talking about this with the surprising strength in the economy from your vantage point, when do we

see it in what they're willing to buy? I think overall we've seen it in discretionary. Discretionary sales have moderated given given inflationary pressures. I think overall discretionary continues to move on steadily. It'll be the back half where you see some improvement. I think the lower to middle income consumer, where you've seen the trade down is what I'm concerned about as we go through this first half of the year.

Can you build on that how much he's starting to see some fractures, some fissures in people who don't have that same discretionary spetting. We're talking about windows on Fifth Avenue. But the reality is food, rent cars, all of this is incredibly expensive and really biting into the average American. So what we've heard so far is you're seeing even customers with hund a thousand dollar household incomes. Companies like Walmart are seeing more consumers who have that level of

household income. You're seeing some of the lower tier companies, some of the dollar store and even off pricers, where their average household income they were getting was under forty dollars, and now consumers with sixty dollar household income are going there. The trade down is real, and that's what impacts I think the March go forward time period when inflationary pressures moderate. In the big picture, have we cleared inventory ninety days ago?

We're all wringing our hands about stuff. I've always learned price clears inventory, and I once again that's what happened. Yeah, that's what happened. On the same side, price cleared inventory. You're gonna see inventory come down for some it was up twenty and thirty percent at the end of the third quarter. It'll be negative in the fourth quarter. But one of the other elements of that, wholesale accounts like department stores, are moderating orders for the first half of

the year. So cut to the chase here. Macy's, they don't of the wooden escalator anymore. They're they're there. They've had a wonderful strategy of going to the middle or maybe the lower middle is well, what's Macy's doing to get through the summer, to get the back to school. You know what they're doing. They're using data science to modernize their department store in order to figure out what categories are working and had a price appropriate more makeup,

an look at toys. They've brought in toys r Us, They've brought in Pandora Jewelry, they have an Apple in store shop. They've expanded the categories in order to capture more wallet chair well, remaining competitive on price share. That that's that's good. So you put the wallet of the wallet chair in your new bag. That's what you do. The wallet chair is going to the stores and not staying in the wallet, and that is what we're seeing

right now. And what is interesting is the market trying to understand this because on one hand, bad books that means if it's going to raise rates. On the other hand, good because that means that companies are going to keep getting the revenue from that time. And then what's the flow through to the margins. I think we have more class already on margins and sales increases ten seconds. We've got to go to a research on Dana Telsa's single best buy right now, single best buy right now. I

like Ralph Floren I like Deckers very good. Dana Telsey with us today with enthusiasm on an enthusiastic retail report. Over the years for so many it has been an interesting conversation to speak to and listen to James Bianco, Jim Bianco's president and macro strategist at Bianco Research. It's a wonderful holistic note because he's listening to Wall Street. Jim. I like what you do in your note this morning.

You reach out to the recent work from Deutsche Bank to Apollo of Torsten Slock, and you're looking at the no landing scenario that he and others are talking about. Tell us on the possibility of a no landing no, I think that the no landing scenario, you know, using the plane metaphor that it just continues at thirty thousand feet, is going every day, and what is driving that is the labor market. As we all know, or as I like to say, the problem with the labor market is

there is no problem with the labor market. And if there isn't a problem with the labor market, the FETE is not going to see a reason to pivot. And something new is starting to come up in the marketplace in just the last few days. Uh, the probability that the FED raises rates in June to go to five and a half is now gone above. And that's the first time I believe this cycle that the market has actually gotten ahead of the Fed. The whole cycle has always been the fete is said they're going to do

something in the market things. Now they're gonna pivot, they're gonna step down, they're gonna pause, They're not gonna go as far as they think. Now the markets starting to think the Fed's gonna go further. Then they are communicating right now, So something has changed, and I think what that is is the inflation report yesterday. Services are not

in disinflation. They look very sticky right now, and we have a positive base effect, meaning that we're dropping off big numbers from last year point seven in February, one in March on the inflation report. And once we get past June, that all turns and it becomes the tail wind for inflation to push higher, so we might not get to two percent, and then the second half of the year we start moving higher. And I think that's what the markets starting to sniff out. So we've raped price.

It's high treasuries LAWA, we've priced in a hot terminal, right, as while why record sub resident in the size of that? What you make of them? Well, I think there's a couple of things going on with equities. The first thing is the rally and the equity market state stocks. It's the Fang stocks plus Microsoft, Navideo and Tesla. It's one all over again. We've even got Bedbeth and Beyond moving, and we've got you know, the meme stocks starting to go.

So we've seen this movie before. And so when you strip that out and you look at the rest of the market, it's up. I mean it's not down or anything. It's up, but it's not up nearly as much as everybody thinks. But I think the problem the equity market is going to face. Hey, no landing. That means earnings are gonna come back. That's bullish. The forward pe ratio, the pe ratio of what earnings are expected to be in the next year's eighteen and a half. You're not

paying a cheap multiple for this market. You're gonna pay full for this market if you if you're gonna bet on some kind of economic rebound. What are variable lags that in this scenario, given that we're not seeing it, and that if by anything, we're seeing easier financial conditions. Yeah, I think that that's going to be the biggest concern that we're gonna have when we go forward. Here is the uncomfortable question of maybe the Fed is not at

sufficiently restrictive. Maybe what we're at at four and a half on our way to five on the funds rate is neutral, and that's all we've done in the last year is gone to neutral. That's why we're having a no landing. That's why the inflation rate is being so sticky, and that were we all assume. And I think that's what was the assumption behind all the recession calls at the beginning of the year was we've raised rates a lot. That's got to hurt, But maybe it doesn't. Maybe all

we've done is gone to neutral. And that's what the markets starting to sniff out. Why we're starting to see a price in five and a half is that we were not it sufficiently restrictive and we've got further to go. Jim, what don't you make of that phrase? Long and vable lacks? How Renvan is that to this moment it's relevant to the extent, you know, and you know, going on, what's a lot of other people are saying about that this is an unusual market and they're having a hard time

understanding it. I come back to it's a post COVID economy. Now, I know that's a fancy word, but what that means is all the rules that we understood about the economy pre COVID they've changed. And the biggest one we all know about his work from home. Barely half of the offices in the United States are now occupied five days a week. You know, everybody's on some kind of range of remote work. That is a huge change in the economy. And there's been other huge changes in the post pandemic economy.

So when people say I'm confused, I don't understand the economy isn't behaving. We have to look along and variable lags, we have to be data dependent. It's I think what it is is that they're saying, when is it going to start looking like the rules have changed and we need to start to figure out what those rules are. I don't know what they are. I just know they're

not rule. I want to dovetail Reinhardt Rogoff, Jim uh Into, what we're gonna see here in eleven minutes twenty four seconds, and that is this time is different within consumer America. We're off of pandemic. Are we acting almost in a drunken state because this time is different after the shock of a pandemic? Or is this just typical boom from stimulus. I think it's more typical boom from stimulus. Bank of America has put out a lot of statistics about balances

and everybody's checking account and they're still very elevated. So a lot of the stimulus money that we saw handed out in one especially at the lower income levels, haven't been spent, and so these people still have spending power. And I think we're starting to see that. We don't see a booming economy, but what we do see is numbers that are continuing to move forward. In detail, sales

numbers are expected to rebound. Remember December they were negative and they're supposed to be up a decent amount, maybe two percent when we get them, meaning that spending will be continuing. And if we're talking about a recession and a pivot and we're talking about three point four percent unemployment and we start seeing spending, I gotta think at the Federal Reserve, they look around and go, I don't see any reason that they even think about pivot, let

alone think about stopping raising rates. And five and a half looks like a target that we're gonnahead. We're gonna percent and let's just pretend there that's three months lie or from another time in place gets back to five and a half percent, and that gets us back to a Bob Seeger economy. I was mentioning the giant of the Midwest there, great Jim, But are we prepared for the way we adapt and adjust if we get back to Rogoff six or a five and a half percent

three month lifeboard. No. I think that that's gonna be a difficult adjustment for us, because if we get back to a six percent funds right, we will probably have a six percent treasury bill rate. Look, we just hit five percent yesterday on the six month bill. That is the first Treasury security to yield five in fifteen years. If we start to see six on those numbers, all of a sudden, people are gonna look around and go, what's the long term return in the stock market? It's

nine or ten. I could get six without taking any whatsoever by parking it in a treasury bill or a short term treasury security, that is going to prove to be a lot of competition for the idea that the stock market can continue to roar ahead, which is the reason why a lot of people say that the bond market's inversion that you're seeing in the two tents spread is somewhat indicative of what's to come with respect to recession and box do you think that this time is different,

that it is not a predictive measure of a downturn in say twelve months. I'm not so sure. I'd go that far to say that it's not predictive. I'll put some numbers on it. I tend to look like Cam Harvey of Duke, who's the guy that developed the yield curve indicator that when it persistently inverts. That happened around Thanksgiving when it was ten days in a row that it inverted, and it usually leads by about ten months.

That would put you in the fourth quarter for a recession on average, but it can be as long as eighteen months. That could put you out in the first or second quarter of next year. So we could still be a year away from the recession, and the yield curve will have worked as an indicator. But I don't think wall streets that patient. I think that the whole idea that the Fed's gotta pivot that there's a recession and downturn coming. I don't think they think, well, it'll

be here in a year. I think they think it will be here in ninety days or twenty days. So yes, the yield curve still might work, except we just have to dial our expectations that it still might be scenario where we see the downturn or recession and not in the middle of this year. If we do prolong when a recession comes, will it be a more problematic recession because of how far the Federal have to raise rates in response to sort of an easing that we're seeing

in financial conditions and the strengthen the economy. You know, it can be a more problematic recession if it is you know, going back to Bob Seeger again, if it is a recession or an inflation driven recession that we see the inflation rates staying very elevated, I don't know if the Fed will have to raise rates as much, but they're not gonna They're not gonna see recession and say okay, here we go back to zero and quantitative easing.

They'll probably say maybe we got to cut rates back to three or two two and a half and then see how things go. And I think a lot of people are expecting that in a downturn it's going to be a road right back to zero on interest rates. And we mean when we might not see that this time. Jim, financial conditions, how the track that? What you look at? What's you think Offen's looking at? You know, that's a good question because there's all different financial conditions indicators. They

all measure things differently. The FED has various measures as well. I if I was to look at it, I look at the more traditional Goldman Sachs type of indicators, and that says that they've eased a lot and then an adotally with zero DT options, with meme stocks like bed Beth and beyond doubling in a day, with the fang stock starting to move, it seems like it's a very easy environment right now, and it is not a tight environment.

And that should be concerning over at the FED. And that's why it was very confused when Sherman Paul was talking about tightening financial conditions at his press conference a couple of weeks ago, because that's not the case by a lot of measures. Right now. What's amazing about this is, and I'm Bloomberg Radio. You're not observing this, but over the right shoulder of Jim Bianco is this Monroe trader

from another time. You know, I'm sorry, you know, we're harkening back to interest rates when Bianco was using the Monroe trader to figure out convectity in duration. Back then, I'm not sure he was talking about zero d t A. It was I've got sixty seconds left to squeeze that end, so that zero days to expire the options at the index level, really short term stuff. Now, Jim, can you tell me how much do you think that has shaken

this market? About? Yeah, what has happened is is that they now list options every day and they expire every day. In about half the volume is in options that will expire today. I think what it's done is it's created intra day volatility. So you see these big swings from yesterday was a great example of the right up one percent, down one percent, close around unchanged day to day volatility. Maybe it doesn't really impact that, but we have to be ready for this idea that hey, look the markets

up one percent. What does it mean? Wait, wait an hour, it's now down on the day. Wait an hour, it's back up on the day. That's where I think that the zero DT options are really starting to play into the market and confusing a lot of people. We need a new PRIMI what does it mean? And then we just play Jim Bianco standard sex standard conversation. Jim, Thank you, buddy. Do you appreciate that Jim Bianca Bianca Research joining us now as someone who absolutely nailed the dynamics of hydro

carbon's downstream upstream? Uh here, Stephen Short joins us the principle with a short group right now. Steven, thank you so much for being with us. I want to have a more general conversation, John, am I right that there's a massive bet on a hundred dollar barrel oil. I would say it's a massive I think there are some people out there looking for triple ditch it. I think Jeff Carry Goldman is one of them, and I'm pretty sure Francisco Blanche be have. I talked abut the possibility

that happened in this ship, Steve. But it's not what you do. You don't you know game or try to guess a barrel. You're looking at the microstoff which valves are being turned in America. How do you react to the certitude of a hundred dollar a barrel oil? Right now,

I'm not there Tom quite yet. Through the first six months of this year, we do do a lot of alga, a lot of quantitative modeling here with regard to price forecasting right now for the third quarter coming into this excuse me, for the first quarter come into this year, we had the meeting of our outputs on the high

end at a barrel. When we go and look to the start of the summer, that mean jumps to let's look at my notes here at nineties six dollars a barrel, and there is a potential of one hundred dollar a barrel at some point this summer. So so clearly there is that statistically that that probability and it makes sense

to demand is expected to be strong. We still, as it always we we could drain in appair, we are going to drain uh the spr because apparently slush fund so you can take that down to zero still doesn't increase the amount of refinery capacity here that states and there in lies the problem Steven is is the Kansas City Chiefs are playing Uh. The other team is they? We're playing your your beloved Eagles. Every other ad was an electric car? Read our electric vehicle usage? Is that

in the short hydrocarbon world? Now do you see that within the data? Absolutely, we're being in the city and and we're most likely seeing it in guest line demand. Tom, Guest line demand, UH is problematic if you're just assuming no one's driving e vs because demand is anemic. You have to consider this winter and we don't have a winter. I mean up to the main border, there's no snow on the road. I ad out to white Omen from

the east coast to wyomingst no snow. So we have eye healed driving conditions and yet gas line to and it's still about four percent below a year ago and according to our modeling about two percent below. There are are are probabilistic range that means two percent below normal. UH. And we've had a significant you know, it's went to great guess lene prices so they are cheaper than summer prices,

and yet demands not kicking in. So if you're on one hand, you're saying it's just the fossil fuels, then we've got a problem. This economy has a problem because guest Lean demand is a tremendous economic leading indicator. But we do have to factor out the fact that more people are driving hybrids. Tom I was I was bragging over the Super Bowl because I was crying about the Eagles. But to console myself, I kept on having to remind

myself I drive an electric hybrid SUV. I put seventeen gallons of gas lene in this thing about every four months, and I drive fourteen hundred miles before I have to refill those seventeen gallons. I'm getting seventy eight seventy nine miles to the gallon. That is the future. Unfortunately, we're in the e V world where zero sum game e vs are great, but there's certainly no panacea and the certain you're not great for the environment. See that, and

we can build on that point. I'm trying to understand then, how you can parse out the dynamics to come in with some expectation of where prices are going to go. The International Energy Agency put out this report this morning saying world oil supply looks set to exceed demand through the first half of three, but the balance could quickly shift to deficit as demand recovers and some Russian output is shut in. Basically, we have no clue anything could happen.

Have you ever had a corollary to this? Yeah? No, absolutely, it's what we're going here, except maybe. Now. This is why you do the probabilistic model and quantitative modeling, because you're looking at, excuse me, a series of of price variants over daily returns, weekly returns, monthly returns, and you're coming out and you're running simulation models of of these potential exogenous factors, these Black Swan events. Two years ago. No one knew about Ukraine UH coming to the four

and being a major factor two years ago. I certainly no one was expecting to see a hostile white house towards the US hydrocarping industry. So we do not know. So there is that random component that you have to kind of model in UH into these probabilistic models, and then you come out with a range. So there's no such thing as an accurate forecast with regard to we're gonna hit this price, We're gonna we're gonna hit that price. No, but you can come out and come out with with

a probability of ranges of events. And hence why we're coming out with the kind of the median output of all the modeling we're running is where we're getting this potential uh oil by the end of the summer, as potentially low as dollars a barrel and as potentially high as nine hundred one dollars one heck of the range. Stephen, I want to squeeze one further question, and you set a line there. I think it was a vase. Are

certainly not that environmentally friendly. Let's explain that to us. Yeah, I mean, just look what's happening in California right now. We're at the first life cycle ending of those solar panels. California does not, never had a plan to dispose of those solar panels. So now all the heavy metal it was soul pentil was sitting in um dumps. With the potential of all the heavy metals in, they're leaking out

into the environment. And now when you factor in the fact that evs are such a small percentage of the global market, when we talk about the amount of earth and we're talking about something about the size of the state of Arizona and Nevada just here the United States to state our demand the amount of earth you're going to have to rip up to get to these heavy metals. So that's we're ripping up China, We're gonna rip up the Congo, which we already are. We're gonna rip up

Argentina to get to the to the cobalt there. When we have to rip up that earth, it will make one and one hundred thirty years of coal mining and oil drilling look like a pin prick of the amount of environmental degradation we're gonna have to do to get those virtual signaling heavy metals into that e V battery state from Why don't we having that conversation, mall I, I don't know. I mean, it's well, you know, because

it's such a fractured political nation. If I'm saying something, the people watching this think I'm nuts and think I'm some kind of I'm pushing some sort of agenda. I'm just looking for a meeting of the minds and I want to. I want to I want to really promote my my hybrid. It's it's the best of both worlds. It's a little bit of fossil fueld, which we need because demands not going away there, and it's a little bit of electricity. It's a little bit of both, and

it's a great compromise. We love you, We love you, you know. We love the different opinions, and we we love how you've taken the Eagles defeat. It's just taking a cho the egos on the heels of the Phillies, tom So, this has been a tough year for for Philadelphia. For Philadelphia, it's been a brutal sports year. Didn't emins as well? Isn't like, oh yeah, Short's never gonna come back if you keep it up, John ste I'm not sure he casts about that. I'm watch ms Steven tank Key.

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