Surveillance: Boeing's Rough Year

Bloomberg dot Com, and of course on the Bloomberg. What we're gonna do here and in a good half hour we have Catherine Man with us with City Group is to go to her acclaim her fame out of m I T and all that she's done in academics and dovetails with a story of two thousand nineteen which is

a trade war. And then we'll talk about the equity markets and you know, the US economy and that here in in a bit you wrote a classic in you read a five with Michael Rosenberg Codependency into Function between China and the US two thousand three, two thousand four. You're one of the truly one of the experts on this.

Did you see a trade war coming? I didn't think that a trade war was inevitable, um, but I do think that, um, there was a definitely a pivot with the change in leadership in China, and that pivot was towards a more state oriented UH, and move away from

the objective of more private oriented enterprise running running the economy. UH. There was also a pivot away from liberalization of the capital account and a less management of the R and B. And there was definitely a pivot toward a more UM industrial policy strategy towards UM a national development And Paul, we see this this morning with whispers out of China again of an accommodation in their policies. So, Catherine, this move I guess back towards more state control of the economy.

This is tied to mr G. Is this long term trend? Do you think? Is this something because it seems like China was moving more towards market economy is a little bit on the margin. Are you now shifting back and you think that's permanent? Well, I think it's hard to

make a judgment about permanence, but UM. I think the what's what's most interesting to think about is the question of does UH does a heavily managed direct approach to UM becoming a frontier innovator along the dimensions that they want to which is the man, you know, the manufacturing? Can you do that with state direction? I think that's really the most interesting question. It's always been a question

about industrial policy. How much state intervention, whether it be a market economy or not, UM, how much data intervention can get you to the frontier of innovation? And so I think that's what is up for grabs here, UM. And I think it's the evidence in the past has been that, UM, if you're not at the frontier, state intervention can can get you there, because you know, what you're trying to get to. The frontier is at somebody else is in front of you. UM. But can you

actually break through the frontier? Can you make the frontier as a state state direction? That the evidence on that is much more limited, right, is it? So as we change our attack under this administration to more a bilateral negotiation between the US and China, what is your thought on that versus what had been the trend I think prior to that for a period of time of multilateral engagement with China is what do you think one is

better than the other? Well? I think this this administration has gone bilateral in every single negotiation that it has been involved with, even U s m c A was ultimately broken up into two bilateral discussions and negotiations ZOM there is no question that multilateral trade negotiations are superior to bilateral UM. Bilateral are one off, one off deals,

and UM, we are a global economy. UM. We're kind of eroding away from that right now, but but ultimately it is better if we are a global economy and UH you have market opening across all different economies. UH. And that's where you get the benefits of the greatest variety, the biggest scale, the lowest prices, UM, and the more value change that creates the greatest productivity. What you end up with bilateral negotiations. And this has been well known

for quite some time. Job just Bug Waddy called it, probably twenty years ago spaghetti bowl. A spaghetti bowl where the rules of origin because remember, if it's a bilateral trade negotiation, you have to have rules of origin to identify who's in and who's out of of a deal. And those costs of rules of origin UM are extremely expensive for companies to abide by. So you're raising the cost of doing trade, of engaging in trade when it's

done on a bilateral basis. And with regard to China in particular, UM, the issue that I'm most concerned about is the with withdrawal. The US is sort of taking an approach of withdrawing, breaking up that relationship, withdrawing and becoming more national focused, and that takes away you know, that creates a situation where China can go into all of the other markets that the US is seceding from.

Let's take this to what you do it sitting up, which is advised your institution and your business relationships every day on this and folded and also with Paul Sweeney and when Bloomberg Intelligence is doing worldwide. The gambit here is phonies like me fly to Hong Kong. I land at the airport, I get in a fancy car, I go to the hotel, I go to the office at hotel office hotel, I get back in the car, come back home, and I say I went to China. I mean that's the truth, and folks trust me. I didn't

go to China. The real world for City Group clients is maybe they go to Hong Kong and then an hour later they're on a plane to cheng Do. Is that broken in this trade war, that that business relationship of American businesses with their China equivalence, Well, that's certainly part of the objective is to um break the value chains that have been put into place between by US business in order to produce for China or to use China as a production platform for back to the United

States or for other markets. And so the objective of of the of the trade war is in a tariffs in particular, or to make it very costly to do that. Now, what companies are doing is um you know, some of them already had kind of in their in their desk drawer the plan for moving away from China when it became more more expensive to to to produce there, and they've taken those out of the desk door, and they've and they've started. Yeah they're flying the heno exactly or

or you know, yeah exactly. So ket I mean give us a sense that it appears that we're moving towards if I can be sorry for the latest tweet kind of a phase one type of deal. Is this much ado about nothing, because until we get the phase two or phase three, this is kind of just soybeans going back and forth. The phase one deal um looks a lot like what was on the table in May um

and of course that did not that fell apart. So UM we're we're we're cautiously optimistic as a team that there will be something signed, but that it's implications are limited, very limited. Um, you know, and and the are the argument that it's the first of a of a set of of of broader relationships and broader negotiations. I think it's way too early to come to that conclusion because the hard stuff is still the stuff that's on the table. Katherine Man City Group, I, I really, I really can't

say enough. It's just a few years ago. She was just out of m I T at the time. Is a trade deficit sustainable? It's still worth reading today and a primer for all, including a possibly the gentleman at six Pennsylvania Avenue. Kit Jukes was with us during the goodness of Prime Minister Johnson, that extraordinary election that we saw with the Prime Minister and the shifts for the ninety Kingdom. Now on this day we'll talk to Mr

Jukes society general about a bigger, broader picture as well. Kid, I want to go back to Ken Rogoff when he was on the watch at the I m F did all sorts of research with the team on fixed versus floating or even fixed it's abandoned currency versus folding. How different is your study of dollar ran mimbi If it's a floating dollar in a sort of kind of like

fixed ran mimbi, How does that change your study? I think it changes everything when when look when you've got if you if you reckon that of world trade is is United States, China, and Europe. If you have a fixed or pretty fixed relationship between two of those parties, it locks down one side of the world. If all three float freely against each other, we we live in a We live in a world where all the other currencies orbit to different degrees around each of those three currencies,

and it makes it more difficult. But it also means that we have to we have to understand and the one we understand least well is the Chinese unts because as it moves more, as it floats more freely but not completely freely, what we're faced with is we we get far less information about monetary policy, about current c policy from the Chinese than we do with the bombardments on policy that we get in Europe and in the United States. So we we kind of have to work

it out for ourselves. But that you know, in terms of its share of world trade and influence on the currencies on the economies of the rest of the world. Make no mistake, the Chinese un is as important as the Euro or the U. S. Dollar now, and in some ways more important because because we understand it less well. So Kick, can you give us a bear case for

the US dollar? I have not heard one. The bear case for you, as dollar is that there's a certain amount of complacency about the U. S. Economy, so that the best thing that could happen to it next year is it does about as well as people expect and continues at the current kind of gradually slowing pace. So the consensus is something like one percent growth next year, and the Fed does not very much of anything through

that period. The bear cases that the earning cycle has clearly turned down, and as that continue used to be the most important thing driving or creating an economic cycle, the dangers are all to the down side. That that's the economic case. The other side of this, frankly, is the dollar is just about as expensive in real trade weighted terms as it can usefully get, and so two things can happen. It can stay here or it can weaken getting significantly stronger is going to be really difficult,

or you're predicting that we stay here. I mean, you know, I'll be honest, folks, A strong dollar call this year has been just stay here, and that's been very against consensus as well. What's your call for next year? Is it stay here? My call for next year is that the dollar will do better than the Chinese un and the Euro will do better than both of them, and

the yen will do better than all. What does a stronger euro do to your European GDP and European exports being so open, it doesn't help, so it won't go up very much. The context again is that if you think that since the creation of the euro, the euro has traded a little bit below purchasing our parity against the dollar against the sort of the calculation then based on just stuff we buy in the shops, that level

is one thirty six. Now, so I know, folks who think that fair value for euro dollar is one thirty five, we are barely above one ten. We are the best part of below that level at the moment. I don't think that if the interest rate differential between the US and Europe narrow, as if the bondial differential narrowers to any significant degree. I don't think we can stay here forever. I don't think the Europeans will like it but for

one minute. But I think that the balance of of relative economic performance is just beginning to shift in its favor. It's not gonna so if it if it makes it to one twenty, that that's making it less than half the way back from from where someone might think that fair value should be. We need a different way to think about fair value in that sense because the Chinese

u and played such a big role. But but it's the it's again this piece that it's not inconceivable that once that move happens, that it happens more in the second half of next year than the first half, that it's slow, and that we spend most time just waiting on the US economy and the European economy, which is which is less volatile than the US, just does a

little bit more miserably slowly. That the game changer that that could be could come but isn't necessarily going to come, is if the Europeans wake up one morning and realize that easing fiscal policies about the most sensible thing they could do at any point in time, but right now especially so. Kid. I'm looking at my chart here, basically

just a one year chart for the sterling. I'm actually surprised as we pulled back down below one to thirty that we didn't get a more stained move above one thirty and holding above one thirty, maybe even moving higher on the Brexit. Where do you think Sterling trades here and what's kind of the key determinant. I think the key determinant of Westerning trades against the dollar next year will be where the Euro trades against the dollar. I think Sterling is now going to be much quieter against

the Euro. And remember the the you know, the UK, despite everything, does much much, much more trade with Europe than with the United States. So it's it's what happens to the Euro that really matters. In other words, we can get we can get to one forty against the dollar if the Euro can get to one twenty against the dollar. But if if the Euro states here, we're just not going to go up much against the dollar.

Otherwise we'd have to take the level against the Euro back to the kind of place we were at before this referendum, and the referendum is not going to go away. We might we might conceivably get a clean exit, but we're not going to put this back and never do it. Tell us about and this was a news item last week. Focus is sort of esoteric on Monday before the holiday season. But we'll go Lancashine. You. Sweden has a unique central

bank experiment. They have a history of this, certainly going back to the Glory and Risk of nineteen ninety two. The sweat, I should say of nineteen ninety two is there a way Kitchuks to play the courage of Sweden where they say enough negative interest rates um. I think the weight of play it was was possibly to do it in advance of of when they did it, so that the Swedish Crowner had a big run when they first indicated that they were going to get interest rates

back to zero. The probability now is that having gone from negative rates to zero rates, they stay at zero for a really long time and something has to change in the economy. Again. That the key here is, and I think they're they're an incredibly important lesson for everywhere. But the key here is, once you accept that negative interest rates have um, negative connotations for the economy that they're not just a win win, and they're definitely not

just a win win for the economy. Then you have to be prepared to use fiscal policy as a tool for helping drive the economy and the short medium term in a way you didn't before. What you learn from Swiss from Sweden is if easier fiscal policy takes on as a as a fashion acround the world outside the United States, the Swedish trining will fly more likely. To my money, it's not the Swedes that will be the

ones that these fiscal policy. It will be somebody else right now though, um I guess that the trade that I would like is is that the Norwegian croner is catching up on Swedish crona strength pretty quickly, and I would rather own the Norwegian croner than switch coroner. But but but the lesson from Sweden is it's all about fiscal policy in well have to well some are do we have Mr Jukes scheduled for January, we have to we have to drive forward that conversation very he was

a very needge of m Mt Jukes. Thank you so much with such oh is just a wonderful help with us with perspective this year as well, Boeing coming out with the press release and management changes. David Calhoun named president and CEO Lawrence Kellner to become chairman of the board. Uh. They're saying new leadership to bring me nude commitment to transparency and better communication with regulators and customers in safety. So a change at the top at the top, Tom here, Uh,

new CEO. Let's bring on a good friend, George ferguson Bloomberg Intelligence. He follows abobing and all things aerospace. George, does this surprise? You were getting a new leadership here the CEO out, new CEO in no, I think, Uh, you know, we we thought maybe it would take a little bit longer without bowing, might try to put the Max back in service before they changed leadership. But so it doesn't surprise. It's just maybe a little bit earlier

than we expected. So, George, I mean, I guess when we look back on this with hindsight, you know, over the past year, it really does seem like management either didn't really understand the scope of the problem, didn't manage the parties, whether it's the f a A, whether it's investors, whether it's you know, it's competitors and customers. What do you think was the real undoing here or the real

mistake from Boeing? You know, I mean we had seen I would say, a distinctive change in the way Bowing communicated to all kinds of constitution in sees with with Dennis Fellenberg, and I think that, um, that didn't help during the during the crisis, I think they had become

they've provided less information. Uh, you know, they got much tighter with everything they I think there was a little bit of you know, feeling that they were at the top of their game, things were going great, and they didn't have to give all this information and I think I think that that hurt them ribly in this in this uh, in these latest problems. George David Calhoun is

a uniquely qualified guy for this. Not only was this relationship to Wall Street and private equity in the black Stone Group, but I'm really going to go to what I learned in an interview years ago that the pros look at an airplane is engines with a fuselage attached, which I really didn't understand. And he has as a business executive the working knowledge of general electrics airplane engine business. Describe his impetencies on engines, which are the clearly part

of the tragedy of these two plane crashes. What unique skills does he bring after his work with with Caterpillar and that and his work with black Stone and particularly

with ges aircraft business. I mean, ge is so deep into the aviation business right in the the engine business, and I think that just means that he has a very good understanding of of the industry obviously had he has some great experience um and I just think that gives him executes and think quite quite well for I think all the for all the abuse I'd say gees getting in the marketplace as it as it restructures itself on the aircraft side, I think it's been an outstanding

executor and so I think he brings that that skill set to Boeing. The interesting thing though, is that we just let a ge guy go at bowing commercial airplanes, right. McAlister was running commercial airplanes and he just went out the door. So we had a guy go out the door as well. But what's topic, I mean, George, what's so good about your skill set? As you actually know the operational skill sets of this company and this company in crisis. What's this to do list today? Is he

supposed to speak to employees? Is he supposed to speak to the f A A. I mean, what's what's the immediate to do list for Mr Calhoun? Is it replaces Mr Muhlenberg. Yeah, I think he has to. I think he has to get with the f A A and and repair that relationship as quickly as possible. Right, I think really they need the f A to review the MAX and help get it back into service as soon

as possible. They need to go to the f A and and and just be ready to support them in that effort and make sure that that's that's an absolutely positive relationship because so key to this company's future is getting that MAX back into the air and getting things moving again. Paul, I want to be careful in the headlines here, Mr Calhoun is joining Boeing as CEO January, and in the in the in the the headlines following on,

Mr Greg Smith will serve as interim CEO. Right, Okay, we had Mr Mullenberg actually resigning, So George, it's interesting here just give us a sense of the state of the relationship between Boeing and the regulators. I mean, it seemed like for decades, if not for all time, it

was a very strong, close working relationship. What happened, well, I mean, I mean, the regulators clearly have um, you know, the reputations had tarnished through this whole seven thirty seven Max problem, and and it seemed like Dennis and the regulators weren't on the same sheet of music because you know, we well we don't get a lot of information for

that relationship was working. You know, we we all heard that he had sort of got called to Washington to talk to the regulator a couple of weeks ago and asked not to give timetables for when the MAX was going back into service. I would have thought he would have been coordinating that with the f a A and making sure that you know, they're they're both of their views for how the process would work for getting the MAX into the air were in sync. And I think

that was very surprising to me, all Right. I would have thought the f a A A would have been looking over Boeing shoulder as they went through all of the fixes to the MAX. So even though they need they need to be able to sign off on it, you know, from an f A standpoint is being safe. They could have seen the process and been provided some level of comfort in that. And it seems like we're still three months away from getting this airplane back in the air. Well,

that's let me frame this again. With David Calhoun taking over here in January, we believe in the stream of headlines coming out, Greg Smith, the chief financial officer and executive vice president, will uh be the interim CEO. Of course we know him. There was affiliate issue with the Economic Club of New York. We affiliate Bowing the Sea

at but very much headquartered in Chicago. UM. George Freeman with this right now, giving us wonderful perspective on this, Uh, George, the plane is going to get back in the air and X months says, who what are the engineering changes that they need to do to get the f A a okay and to get the confidence of their staffing, including pilots and also the American public. Well, I mean, the as near as we can tell, uh, the you know, the biggest fix is going to be a fix to

software on this MCAST system. Let's call it an anti stall system, UM. And then it's going to be training the pilots to use this new system. As near as we can tell, that fix to m CAST is done, but the FA has to be satisfied. Okay, it won't override. Have they move the engines? I mean a lot of the geometry this and I'm working off the great work you did and others, particularly in c at all. Is there an engineering change away from software? No, No, it's

the same plane it is. And look, I think the airplane. Our sense from what we've done is that from the work we've done and the people we've talked to, is that, well, the engines change a bit of the physics, and I think it means long term they can't do much more with this airframe. The airplane as it's designed now, with an MCAST system that's working properly, is a safe airplane and will be a member of fleets for a long time. George, is there any risk here that they just scrapped the

seven three seven Max? I don't think so. Um, I'll never say never. I hate saying never, but I don't think so because I think, as I just said, I think the airplane is safe to fly. This software system was designed to keep people out of trouble with an airplane where they had pushed the engines forward. There was a risk of on on heavy thrust takeoffs of the of the um nose being pulled up a bit and potentially getting into a stall. This was designed to keep

pilots out of trouble. Clearly they got some pilots into trouble because it was it provided too much deflection to them to the control surfaces on the airplane and drove the nose towards the ground. I believe that if they get the fixed to that software, which I think they're done.

I've heard American Airlines pilots way have gone into simulators and flown the new m CAST software and said it reacted as they expected and that they and that they felt, you know, pretty confident in the safety of this of this system. I believe it means the airplane is viable and will be in fleets for a long time. I do think, though, that bone needs to come out of this and go at hard, a new narrow body, a new seven thirty seven, because they've pushed this one for

all they can get. And I think that the next time that we go to if we go to bigger engines, bigger fan sizes to to create better efficiency, I think that there they can't put underneath this air frame, and so they got to fix that. Okay, but that gets back to the engineering issue. Is there an established understanding on people like you, all the regulators, the pilots, etcetera, that X the software the existing frame is doable. I

think there is. It appears to me that there's a fair amount of consensus in the marketplace that among among the smart people in the marketplace, which I'm probably doesn't even include me, include other people that I read. Well, it's interesting just time that in the pre market the stock is now trading up about one point eight percent in the pre market here. So um, so the market kind of likes what it's seeing here, that change in management.

So I mean, George, long lasting risk to reputation within the community foreboing, Um, you know what, the Max's problems have lasted longer than I would expect. The star Lander didn't help this week. Um, I think yeah, I think you they're they're banged up here for a couple of years on reputation for sure. Um, it's been it's been a rough yere Okay, George, thank you so much. We're

gonna we're gonna move on here. This has been absolutely informative right now joining us Brooke Sutherland, who has been writing not only this crisis but the synthesis of it into all of manufacturing America. Brooks, thank you so much for joining us on short notice. They have gone to the most obvious person here. There is clearly no time for an outside search within all your reporting. What is

the first to do for Mr Calhoun? I mean, I think the most obvious thing is to get into the sky, but they're obviously a number of before you can do that. I mean, I think what we've learned in the last couple of weeks is just how stringing the relationship has been with the FAA is hugely unprecedented for the FAA administrator to come out and publicly admonished a company like Going, as Steve Dixon did a couple of weeks ago, really

really significant turn in this crisis. And I think that is one big reason why you're seeing going make this change this relationship. Reassuring the FAA that there is no effort at all by going to try to speed up this process is essential. And you also have to look at the customers. Um Arizonians are not happy the Southwest Airlines CEO Gary Kelly has made it abundantly clear that he's very frustrated. Was going to the point that he's

been talking about looking at Airbus. Well, that's right where I wanted to go. I mean, our guy Brook, our Guy Johnson's on Bloomberg Television right now, expert on to lose and Airbus. Are we really at risk in America of iconic brands dropping the iconic engineering technology we have in using Airbus far greater in America. So you have not seen that yet, And a big part of that

is because airbus is backlog is so long. I believe it's about six years, and so you'll be waiting a long time if you join the back of the line right now for an Airbus jet. But I do think longer term there's a significant risk of Bowing losing its competitive edge, losing its reputational advantage. I mean, all you have to do is look at the Airbus A XLR, which they just launched at the Paris air Show in June.

And Boeing was supposed to be working on a competitor to that, the new middle market aircraft, and that had to be put on the shelf because the seven seven MAC crisis. Airbus has been getting tons of orders for the XLR, and that is shrinking the market share opportunity for that Boeing plane, which I think likely does not

launched at this point. And I think what Airbus has essentially done is because you have to remember that the seven thirty seven mac UH flight control system that was, you know, thought to be significantly at the root of these crashes was put in place because Airbus came out with UM when we're fuel efficient UH signal body jet and Boeing felt like that they had to respond, so they and they had to respond quickly, so they rejiggered the model to adapt it to the bigger, more fuel

efficient engine. And that's why you got those flight control system. So we're really here because of competition from Airbus, and so I do think you have to worry about competition longer term. And SMP and Moody's when they downgraded Borings credit rating last week, specifically cited that rist and they were going to do that decision. Brook Solo and thank you so much for joining us in a short notices.

Greatly appreciate it. This morning, writing of course from Bloomberg News, we rip up the script and you can do that with someone who's competence is Gregtly Gregory Valier with a GF. We should be talking politics, maybe, Greg, we can talk about a president who was out front of his own fa A. We do this, folks, with the announcement. Mr Milenberg will resign immediately from Boeing. David Calhoun, their lead director, will take over h in a matter of weeks, and

their CFO Mr Smith will step in. Is it room at CEO? Greg? How does the f a A with an annual budget of twenty kazillion dollars a year? How do they fit into the Washington you know? Not? Their pretty low profile time considering their budget. Uh, they've obviously had a difficult year, has has Boeing, But yeah, very low profile. It comes within the idea of regulators are there and they're supposed to help us, and there's the

FDA and that and all the rest of it. But the f a A is so viscerable, visceral to our listeners and viewers. Uh, and that we fly our families on it. We we It's an immediate thing and I think it really goes A president viscerally got this in March when this story broke. I mean, with all the critics and the proponents of President Trump, sometimes his energy makes things happen, doesn't it. It does, Tom he has tremendous energy. And I also would say he's got good instincts.

I think he has a good finger on the pulse of the country. I think that he's very underrated in that regard. So Greg talk about having a good pulse on the finger on the pulse. You've had a no recession call in nineteen You are pretty aggressive. It seems like the markets now agree with you. We've heard the word frothy come into the discussion. I think that this is an overbought market, to say the least. At some point people are going to have to realize that things

don't go straight up. I must say I've been a little surprised to hear retail clients start to talk in a frothy way. That sometimes can be a warning signal that the market is getting a little bit overvalued. What does frothy retail me? Does that mean that they're buying the extra marginal gift of ali a family, a Tiffany's What does that mean? I wish I should be so lucky. But no, I think people are not perhaps a where the fact that markets can can go down from time

to time. I would say, this guy's the reason I said all year long way I thought the recession was not remotely imminent. Comes from Washington. And it's not just a FED it's fiscal policy. I've never seen spending like this. There's a great editorial this morning in the Wall Street Journal on spending. It's totally out of control. In the short run, it's good for the economy and the long term,

we got a lot of debt to finance. Greg, you and I we can say this in honor of people like Paul Songas and Pete Peterson and the late uh Paul Boker as well. We've been talking this for decades. I know interest rates are low, but but there's truly no breaks on this whatsoever. I mean, what do we do in the next budget go around? Well, there's no one's scared of this story. Because we were told if

deficits took off, we'd have high inflation. We didn't. We were told if deficits really exploded, we would have a lower economic growth. We didn't. So with interest rates of this low, it's awfully hard to convince the public anything to be worried about. How do we develop a mega, ginormous infrastructure bill. If that's where we're coming to, I think that we could get one. I think that Trump could maybe say some of the money comes from the

private sector. That's the Wilbur Russ strategy. But I think next year it's going to be high on his list two things infrastructure number one, Number two tax cuts. Trump is going to talk aggressively. You won't get him, I

don't think, but he's got a great campaign issue. I mean, Paul, it's amazing when you think of infrastructure and you divided among tunnels to New Jersey airports here there and everywhere, and every other bridge that's out there that needs to be fixed, I mean trillions, And it's like catnip in an election to talk about that. To talk about tax cuts, people like hearing about that, whether you can pay for

it or not, suddenly becomes less relevant. I mean about that tax cut from with hindsight, What does your take on that? Two quick points. Number one, Yes, there was a sugar high for individuals, I get that, but the positives for business persist. Lower tax rates, repatriation of earnings, very liberal depreciation schedules. All of these tax provisions have

fueled the rally and continue to fuel the rally. So if we have a discussion of another tax cut, would this be the quote unquote middle class tax cut because the first one wasn't really perceived as a middle class Well, good point, Paul, and I think that the only way this could have any chance at all of getting through the House and Nancy Pelosi would be if it was in middle class tax got that raised taxes on corporations and the wealthy. That means it would be dead on

arrival with Republicans. So I think if we're going to talk a lot about it, but I don't see anything happening. Greg. Thank you so much. We greatly appreciate your time and again his morning note must read in all of political Wall Street is with the A g F of of Toronto, thrilled to Greg Bell could join us. Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg Surveillance podcast. Subscribe and listen to interviews on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, or whichever podcast platform you prefer.

I'm on Twitter at Tom Keene Before the podcast, you can always catch us worldwide. I'm Bloomberg radio