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We start strong her with special coverage and a Sizerowski joins us with Morgan Stanley. I mean, you got a nominal GDP, Andrew, but you got a new mix of lower GDP and persistent inflation. How does that change the application of new money into the bond market.
Look, I think that when you look at what the bond market's pricing in for Fed and Center bank policy, you see the bond market's actually doing some of the work for the Fed. They're tightening financial conditions a little bit. At the same time, obviously this stock markets rallying and spreads are tightening and credit but those two things are
kind of offsetting each other. I think one of the reasons the Fed doesn't have to be too concerned with inflation is you talked about that personal income number, which was zero percent a month over month. If you look at something like Atlanta FED Wage tracker, it's wages are tracking three point six percent wage growth year over year. We have three point eight percent uh per PCE price inflation,
so those are negative real wages. This is something that price increases aren't sustainable on a real basis if either the consumer is going to have to tap their savings or they're going to cut back on spending. And I think that's why the one thing the Fed has going for it right now.
It beautifully frames it. Folks. I can't say enough about that analysis of the Atlanta wage tracker and Sizeronski, thank you for joining us here with this key economic data. With Mortgane standing like Paul on the data screen, what do you see, I'm just like Themar's looking for Knicks tickets.
Yeah, exactly, You're right pricing those out to your treasury up a couple of basis points four point zero five percent and then tenure up only about one basis point four point four nine percent.
This is a treat, folks. Ira Jersey definitive a dominant constumment credit Swee years ago trying to guess out the interest rate tendency he now holds court driving all of credit at Bloomberg Intelligence. Iral, if you were in the chair with Dominique like this morning, and you had to guess out those inflate those guestimates, those forecast tales of what yield would be. Is it a higher yield.
Well, it's a higher yield because basically this is old data and old news. You know, the market this morning at least is really concentrating on where is oil today? Right and oil is up a couple of bucks at the moment because it the strikes overnight by the US. So people are looking through this data and obviously there's also so much data to digest here that you know, we're all like quite full right now, so we're trying to parse out what's the most important bits of this.
And you noted, Tom that the spending being flat a month on month is actually, uh, excuse me. The income being flat month a month actually is not very good because when now we have negative income in large part, maybe it could drive the economy.
A little bit weaker.
And you know, along with the weaker than expected GDP number for the first quarter, you know that's not necessarily a particularly good sign, even though the inflation data was a little bit better than expected.
So just the.
Headline, I'm a headline kind of person. Ira, You're the one that digs twenty seven layers deep. But the headline annualized three point eight percent PCE Price Index. I mean, that's got to get the attention of folks, not just the FED, but I don't know around Washington and policymakers and things like that. How do you what's a three point eight percent number mean to you?
Yeah, well, it means for one thing, that it's going to be really difficult for Kevin Worsh to increase to lower interest rates, right, Like, how can you lower interest rates when you know not only are you running above target in terms of your favored your favorite inflation measure.
So even if you trim out some of the details of this, and we haven't been able to do that yet because it's obviously the number just came out, but even if you trim it out, you're still going to be above the two percent target that the FED set. So it's going to be hard for Kevin Worsh to convince other members of the FED to even think about cutting interest rates. So I think for now, when it comes to least interest rate policy, you're more likely to see the Fed on hold until and unless one the
war ends. And then two if there's major changes to the employment situation, which you know obviously we'll get more of that next.
Week this wall of data. And as I said before, folks, I mean there's a dynamic here to nominal GDP in its new territory. For Chairman worsh Ira Jersey, do you have an historic analog he can plug in or is he in new territory?
I think in many respects he's a new territory because even though like you could argue, and some people have argued that we're we're moving toward a stagflationary type environment because real growth should slow given that you might have a lot more of people's spending having to go to fuels and gasoline. But then people then talk about electrification, and then you know, we're not talking about you know, ten percent inflation rates like we had back in the
nineteen seventies and early eighties. We're talking more about you know, three or four percent inflation, right which historically speaking, when you go back even to you know, earlier in my career, you go back thirty years when I started this business, we were talking about you know, two point eight percent three percent in a PC deflator that was fine, and that was normal, right, So so that is more sustainable, right.
Inflation like we have today is somewhat more sustainable than inflation at nine or ten percent like we had a few years ago, just because you know, at least over the last few years, you've seen wages growing at four percent, so that means you still had real wages going up, which is the reason why that personal income number I think is a little bit disturbing to me, and I want to dig into that a little bit more because if we do have negative real wages, that's when you
wind up seeing pretty aggressive slowing in the economy on a forward basis. And so we want to see is this the start of a trend or is this just like a one off measure because you know, Social Security payments were delayed or something like that. So we have to dig into the details of some of this. So unfortunately, Paul, I do have to dig into those details to be able to get you more information.
Again, I'm not a details guy. I'm right on the surface. But I see personal income flat, I see my GDP number come in below expectations.
Okay, it feels like segflation. This is brilliant Paul Ira, all of us think, like Paul, it's ugly out there. Does the bond market signal that so?
Well, the bond market's signaling that it's really worried about inflation. Right, So when you look at like that two year yield, which we you know, we talk about being very sensitive to policy rates, and of course it is. But when you look at what's sold off and why it's sold off so much, it's also because inflation expectations in the short term have really gone up pretty significantly. They've gone up forty ish basis points in terms of the two
year tips break even. So if we wind up getting a situation where oil gets back down sustainably to eighty dollars a barrel, you can wind up seeing two year yields get back to kind of where the Fed funds rate is right now. While we get down below that, I doubt it, because the market's still going to price for the Fed to be on hold, probably for a pretty long period of time. But you can easily get a thirty basis point rally on just on inflation expectations
going down. Now, the long end of the curve is not only worried about inflation and in fact, inflation expectations longer term have barely moved. It's that what's going on with the fiscal situation will budgets globally wind up getting even worse because of either defense spending or social spending to kind of combat people's people having to spend more on energy.
And that's one of the reasons. While you've seen this global.
Bond sell off. So you know, we talk about US thirty year being over five percent, Sure it is, but this really is a global phenomena. You look at Japan with you know, interest rates that haven't been this is in decades. The UK is still having some of its own fiscal problems, so you wind up seeing all government
bond yields go up. And one of the triggers for that, obviously was the warrant I ran, but I don't see what makes what makes yields go down quickly over the next couple of a couple of months in the long end of the curve.
In particular, Paul, was that too much detail?
That was good?
He's always just killing me. He's going to staff of twenty five people, Yeah, Ira Jersey with US folks, and of course all of his expertise and fixed income is noted particularly unreadable documents on the short space like the trust market, commercial paper and libor ois or so for SOFR. We are pleased to announce it after negotiation with mister Jersey's representatives that Ira will join us in a new capacity. He will be the surveillance World Cup reporter. Nice, this
is good. We got to staggered tot June eleventh, Mexico City, South Africa as well. Ira first before we get to the World Cup. Psg Arsenal this weekend. Describe how big a game that is to the world except Americans who don't care. Well.
In many ways, it is the pinnacle of global soccer football, if you want to call it that, which I do, because the club game is much better in terms of quality actually than the international game is. Even though you wind up having the biggest stars on these teams that go to the World Cup, they're only together for one month. You know. They literally everyone just reported the camp except for the guy who went PSC and Arsenal this week, so it's not like they have a lot of time together.
Whereas you know PSG and Arsenal, they've been training since last August for this very so so it is going to be some of the best football.
Now.
It is a final, so that tends to be a little kg. But PSGA in particular, they just know how to attack. Arsenal can be a little bit more tactical, I think, and I do suspect that Arsenal probably has the edge in this game, but it's it is going to be one to watch for sure.
Was that a good, good first bout with our World Cup correspondent, Irish Jersey, Thank you so much. Driving all a fixed income can't say enough about his commitment to New Jersey youth soccer. His team's rocking it this year Irish Jersey and again going to came out to June eleven, Mexico City Stadium, Mexico and South South Africa. I should say here Matt Winmer has been more than patient portfolio manager all spring and he joins us for too short
a visit this morning. Matt, is the American economy sluggish at one point six percent GDP? Is that the new standard? Yeah, it's a it's a great question.
I mean, as bottom up portfolio managers, I think we're really focused on what those fundamentals are doing right now, and I think that really helps kind of separate the
noise from the signal. And if you if you look at what's happening within the earning cycle right now, we've seen some really strong growth projected even for you know, for this year and for next year, and so we really have a strong belief that that that true long term value of a company is their future stream of cash flows, and they still look really strong right now.
So, Matt, we've seen, you know, the economic data today suggests maybe this economy is entering some form of stagflation here, but boy, we don't see that in the earnings, do we. What do you make of that?
Yeah, look, I think that's I think that's important. There's we just came out of COVID with a strong monetary and fiscal response and now you're throwing on top of that this this AI kind of cap X boom, and I think that's really kind of elevating things right now. And I think that's why the fundamentals continue to be strong right now.
Matt.
I know you guys, and we talked to An Lettis, Well, you guys are bottoms up folks. You really roll up the sleeves and do the work.
Here.
What sectors or what factors are screening well for you guys these days.
Yeah, good question.
I think a big part of what we're doing right now is just focusing on diversification. I think that's going to be important going forward. I think concentration risk is real at this point. It's important to take a holistic approach, especially with the AI ecosystem. CAPEX dollars are going to start spreading across the value chain. Look, it's important to stay, you know, involved in those big cap tech names like
the mag seven. They're going to continue to play an important part of the buildout of AI, but it's important to start allocating some of those investment dollars to other areas of the market. So we're kind of thinking about that AI ecosystem is how having five layers, you know, That's something that Jensen introduced back at Davos earlier this year. We're incorporating that into our investment kind of exposure across the AI chain, and it's important to have exposure to all five layers.
Mat One final question is a tendency here. Are you owning fewer items in an equity portfolio? Are you concentrating or are you going out to a more traditional one hundred, two hundred and even three hundred holdings.
Well, typically for our strategy, we tend to be a little bit more concentrated. It's usually in that forty five to fifty names.
We think that's enough.
Exposure and diversification to allegate across to make sure that.
You don't get whips on.
But it also gives you an opportunity to be intentful in your exposure and in your bets across the portfolio.
Matt, thank you so much. Bett Whitmer with us with all Spring this morning on the Equity at Market. Stay with us. More from Bloomberg Surveillance coming up after this.
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Well Nelson, you with us now head equities Alliance Bernstein. What are you publishing or what are you planning a tone into the weekend publishing? What are you thinking about?
I'm thinking about actually some of the things that you just talked about. So you talk about these mixed prices, why are they so high? It's because of scarcity. But if you think about this economy, it really is a scarcity economy. And so not only oil and the drivers of inflation there, but AI and this Capex build out that we've seen could really be a driver for inflation going forward. And there's real scarcity there.
And on long ago, I believe is with us in this hour would say the same thing. I mean, when you were at Pennsylvania and you take that e concourse, the first chapter is scarcity. So if prices up and there's scarcity, new product comes in, do you anticipate that.
I think there's there is a very strong demand right now, and I do see that as we've seen over the last few years. What we've seen is layer upon layer of this AI supply chain getting bid up. As we need to do this build out. I think there are more layers to go. This supply chain is quite long.
The supply that supply chain is that include international and emergent markets.
It does, and obviously Korean tae want to participate in that by quite a bit, yep. But I think, look, you also have producers of like say print circuit boards, and those are places that just have been in the doldrooms for decades because there are such commoditized products, but now they're very specialized because there's only so few of them left.
Can emerging in international markets, particularly emerging markets, work with this energy. I'm not sure if it's a crisis a challenge that we're seeing globally here with energy.
It certainly is going to put challenges on emerging markets and definitely some of these economies that are dependent on energy. But I think there are also a lot of other catalysts across emerging markets that are beyond just the energy story. So if you think about emerging markets in Korea. In China, we've got a lot of governance reform and you've got
regulatory reforms that are focused on improving corporate profitability. So it's not just the technology companies and the semiconductors and memory makers in Korea, but it's also the banks that are returning more capital to shareholders.
You were at Penn and they're hugely important engineering sequence. I remember walking in the class from an aerospace going systems analysis What a joke, and you're like two weeks into it and you're going, oh, this is really hard logic theory in all take your engineering classic systems analysis and put it into the process that's coming down the pike.
Yeah, you know, it's funny that you say, you know you thought about the gut course that was systems engineering. It actually has turned out to be some of the most important education.
Exactly, there's the most important course I took, right, got a quality see trust me continue.
I do think actually in today's and age, when information is so readily available, that information edge that portfolio managers used to have has just been compressed. I think the next edge that we have to have as active managers is the process edge, and I think of it as you have to have a very robust process for being able to create that durable and distinctive performance patterns that clients look for. That starts with a clear definition of
research excellence. What is the differentiated research that we're doing. Tom, I'm gonna use one of your favorite words. We're going to use basing updating to.
Do a podcast. Really, we're going to a basian theory. They this is such a nerd patrol. Five people just throw off the Garden State Parkway.
But then we have to guardrail it with systematic processes make sure that we can repeat that process over and over again, and then we have to reinforce it with continuous learning, just tracking our data, keeping catalogs of what decisions that we've made and what can we learn from that.
Paul, when you're the word guardrail, hold on to your wallet exactly. Setting. So how has the AI.
Investment theme changed for you guys? It used to be we'll just throw money at Nvidia and the other chip companies. Now it seems like the market's trying to look at the different areas because it just feels like AI, if it hasn't already, it's going to touch every part.
Of our lives. That's right.
There's a real broadening going on. And I'd say the broadening happens in two ways. The first one is just the capex spend that's happening. So you think about the trillion dollars of capex that's coming on, that's going to affect so many different industries. So that's in industrials, that's in real estate, that's in utilities, that's in the energy grid. But then you also think about your beneficiaries, and that's
in media, that's in healthcare. So we were looking at a broad set of impacts for AI.
Have we had twenty six twenty seven percent earnings growth this past cycle?
Was that ai?
I mean, where did that come from? This is an economy that's it's good, but it's not that good?
Is it.
That the extra CAPEC spend has a multiplier effect and it is hitting many many parts of the economy. And there were there was a lot of good that was already going on in the economy. We had the tax reforms, so so I think we came in with a lot of strength this year.
Do you saw handle earning season the same way you used to or with your Bayesian process? Is there a new is there a new way to say Nelson? You alliance, burstea great quarter.
The what we're looking for is really what are the most important parts of our thesis and how are we affirming and reaffirming or updating our thesis based off what's being released, not just looking at the top line or bottom line numbers.
Nelson, thank you so much. You got to come back, bring some basie and dip with you, and you can stay with us. More from Bloomberg Surveillance coming up after this.
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There's all sorts of good conversations forward today, but this is the one if you want to listen to someone who had the courage to be in the market when it was difficult. Paul. Right now, it's so easy to be in the market. It's every day. It's like, you know, every mutual fund up ten cents fifteen. I know, it's crazy.
Emily rolling with this co chief Investment Strategies. That's a man your life in Boston so all John Hancock nineteen forty six, New Johnny Hancock nineteen sixty nineteen seventy six. Which tower are you in in Boston? Well?
Me, personally, neither one go there very often. I'm usually on the road, but we are in the New nat or the shorter one like Berkeley's two hundred Berkeley.
Or John Hancock. Yeah, okay, very cool. You know it's like this huge institution. This just said be in the market. Back to World War Two? How do you stay in the market now? Like the stress is staying in the market. The nifty to fifty in the sixties.
It's all about earnings, earnings, earnings. So the number one input to our work has always been about following the profit. Stop prices follow profits over time, and it's a key reason that we've been overweight US versus international equities for the last ten years because that's where the earnings engine has been on and it continues to be today.
We did have a rotation, you know, when the tariffs began last year out of the US and has that reversed itself. It's money coming back into the US versus other markets.
It has started to this year. And there was this idea that permeated the narrative last year, like the US is no longer exceptional, and we saw those capital flows leave, whether it was stocks, whether it was dollars. You saw that fall onto the shores over in Europe, and it was really a sentiment thing. Yes, there was a modest improvement in economic growth and an earnings growth, but Eurozone
GDP guess what it is right now? It just came in atzero point one percent, and so clearly we're seeing the US in a better place from an economic perspective and from an earnings perspective, and you're starting to see that reflected in the relative performance here as well.
How are you guys?
I guess one of the things we've seen just extraordinary earnings growth, as you mentioned earlier here in the US. What's driving that? I mean, we don't see those kinds of twenty twenty five percent plus earnings growth numbers in the SMP of company.
Is it AI?
What's driving it?
It's AIAI AI and some fiscal support as well. So one thing that's been talked about a lot is AI. And it's not just this idea that semiconductors are just seeing this massive explosion in demand. It's almost like they're acting sold out right now, and we're seeing that reflected. We're also seeing companies do more with less with AI, and that's actually helping margins expand it wasn't that long ago that we were talking about margin compression. That's going
the other way as well. And then all the wealth impact. The wealth effect has helped the financial sector because companies are doing great with our wealth management businesses. So it's really expanding around all sectors on the road.
How do you respond to someone who raises their hand and says that's great, except it's not like John Carey's Pioneer fund of a million years ago with three hundred holdings. My top ten stocks are forty five percent of my fund.
Discuss concentration risk is a major issue, and it's not just in the United States. If you think about it or merging market equities, it's three stocks.
So is it the norm that we don't understand? It's a normal and the three hundred stock diversification is an academic construct.
It's wild. But I would say to your point earlier, the entire stock market's becoming an AI market. Like you look down in market cap, it's more AI coming into those indices. You look at tom value this year is handily outperforming growth. Guess what's in value semiconductor stocks because their earnings are so good. The global semiconductor indexes up over one hundred percent over the past year. Guess what their earnings are up over one hundred percent over the
past year. So the valuations have actually cheapened up a little bit. So AI is really driving markets globally. We have to be careful about diversification, and we're looking for other areas to play the AI power demand story, whether it's around utilities, whether it's around industrial companies, the picks and shovels around AI. I think that trade has some legs.
We're going to get some inflation data today. I know that Fed's going to be paying attention. I assume you will as well. Are you surprised how well the equity market's performing in the face of rising inflation.
I mean nothing seems to be able to stop this equity market. That the dip buyings absolutely relentless. The things that the market cares about are currency, so the dollar higher and higher yields and higher oil prices. Those are your three things. So if that inflation number comes in hot, definitely the bond markets bracing for it this morning. If that does result in a backup in yields, we could have an issue.
Well like your first lunch at John Hancock, did you go to Lockovers?
Of course I remember that place.
What's knowing?
The lost was amazing, It was amazing, amazing.
But like you know, I missed Lockovers. I mean, Evan's is wonderful, but it's not Lockovers. You know, it's like way too Mohito. They don't have mohidos at Lockovers. No, no, no, no, woke at school, Grandma used to take right there.
Nice Martine, Major.
Major John Hancock hang out in the day, nodding acquaintance. But this is wonderful, Emily, thank you for coming into your studios. Wonderful to have you. It's one of the great calls. It's like Ben Laydler when he was at HSBC now at Bradesco. It's easy to be in the market right now. Where were you in twenty eighteen, Emily Rowland said, please invest stay with us. More from Bloomberg Surveillance coming up after this.
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It is the most talked about book right now across the Transitlantic. Sami Kaynes is wonderful at the Financial Times and she's teamed up with Adam Polson's crew at the Peterson incident. Chad bound joins us. Chad has thought harder about American trade over the last two to three decades, and anyone I know the book is how to Win a Trade War? And because you know Chad wanted to do eight hundred pages, and so Maya said, are you kidding me? It's readable, it's approachable, it's airplane ready. How
to win a trade war? This isn't the trade economics chad of when you were a youngster at Bucknell, isn't it? What does the new trade war look like? Well?
The new trade first. Thanks, it's great to see you, Tom. The new world is all about trade wars, and the world has fundamentally changed. Right We used to say, I, as an economist, used to say, nobody wins from a trade war, so you shouldn't even fight it. Well, unfortunately, that's not the world that we are living in right now. We have to fight the trade war. President Trump likes to use tariffs in the trade war, so that's one
thing that you have to use. But I think what we try to do in this book, and you're right, it is an airplane read, but it's not even a transatlantic airplane read. Can you can get it, you know much a couple of hours. Figure out what's going on here. It's about much more than tariffs. It's about stockpiling, it's about using subsidies, it's about export restrictions, all these stuff.
Now making the headlines, and William Klein and the team, the old stirs at Peterson Institute were thinking about this. We were giving textiles away from the Carolinas to China. The distrust in America about the labor component is tangible. How do we get the trust of American labor back to do trade well?
I think the first thing that we have to do is you have to be honest with them about what the underlying problems are. Right, And yes, some of the problems was the speed of the shock that the United States faced with all these imports from China. But that's sort of the old trade war. That was the thing that we could have maybe should have dealt with twenty years ago. But that's not the trade war that we need to be fighting today. And so the first lesson
of the book is fight the right trade war. The right trade war today is recognizing that China is playing a fundamentally different game than the United States and every other major Western economy out there. China wants a world where the world outside of China is dependent on China
for its supply chains. But China doesn't want to be dependent on the rest of the world for its supply chains, so that lack of interdependence, right, China wanting the rest of the world to be dependent on it so that it can weaponize it sometimes as we saw last year with rare earths, permanent magnets, that Nexperia semiconductor story. I think we have to be honest with the American people that this is a trade war that actually we do
have to fight. It may be different from what they thought, but it's the important sort of level set to getting mistakes right.
Chad.
I think I'm probably like most of our listeners and viewers. I didn't even think about logistics and trade and all that kind of stuff. Stuff just kind of showed up on the shelves, and then the pandemic happened. Then then we're like, oh, yeah, now I get it. We need to pay attention to this stuff. Did we need tariffs and that tariff policy to achieve maybe some of our strategic goals of onshoing or near shoring.
So what we argue in the book is that tariffs aren't a part of a part of the story. But really, I think where the United States has not quite gotten it right so far is the breadth of the tariffs. You certainly don't need to have them on all products, so strategically use them and the countries with which you
apply the tariffs. So if you're thinking about what's the problem right, well, we've got excessive concentration of production of certain goods, central products that American manufacturing needs, American consumers need, and it's all in China. Well, then it might make sense to use tariffs. It's part of some other policies
against China. But you don't simultaneously need to impose those tariffs on Europe and Japan, especially if you want those other friends and partners to be working with you, because then you've got them fighting a trade war, a two front trade war, dealing with China, but then also having to deal with you, the United States, at the same time.
Shed boring with This is the hottest book in economics right now. How do when a trade work? Can't say enough about it? We're going to continue here An optimistic Guide to an anxious global economy, Chad, I got two ways to go here on your back blurbs, you've got my book of the summer two three years ago, Chip Wars by Chris Miller of Tufts and the Basic Idea of Technology semiconductors and such. How do we prosecute a trade war wrapped around the technology of Taiwan in Korea?
Yeah, well, that's that I think an important part of the trade war story here, and I think there's at least two different pieces of that that we have to confront. One is and you're right, Chris's book is amazing. The first is dealing with the challenge of Taiwan. Right, So it is a little bit worrying that ninety plus percent of global production of leading edge chips takes place in one location. Right, It's not China, China, so it's not the same sort of problem as you know, are they
going to weaponize it against us? But having it all there in the world that suffers from floods, earthquakes not good. We've got to diversify. How do you do that? Industrial policy a little bit, but it's got to be smarter than the way we've done industrial policy in the past. You've got to think about demand, what the United States did with the Chips Act, but you also sorry supply, but you also have to worry about demand. What we
didn't do necessarily with the Chips Act. All these fabs in the United States great, we've got the production capacity now, But why isn't it that in Nvidia and AMD and all the chip design companies want to use them yet? Right, We've got to create some other incentives there too. But then the second part is the AI challenge with China and this race, right, and the use of export restrictions and balancing those in the appropriate way to make sure that the American side of this story does end up.
Okay, I gotta squeeze this in. This is important, folks. I mean he's doing this tour with Sami knes Paul. She shows up with a ukulele. I mean she's playing ukulele at their book shows. Nice, it's too much. Yeah, it's like, you know, a wallpaper. He's like hanging out chef. Nobody knows that you're the heritage of Fred Bergston, who is hugely supportive to my act, to Peter Peterson, who is hugely supportive of my act, and Adam Posen, who's
a bigger Red Sox fan than I am. Does your shop the Peterson Institute after your book The Trade War? Think we nudge back to the Washington consensus.
The beauty of the Peterson Institute where I work is there is no institutional line. Everybody has their own views, that does their own analysis, comes up with their own perspective. So I will leave it to my boss, Adam Posen to give his own views. But I agree. You know, we're going to have these debates about what's the right way to tackle these sorts of problems, and it's great
that we're doing so. And I'm just super glad to be able to bring not a ukulele but a copy of the book and to show it here on your show. Thanks for having me, Tom.
John Tuck, Who's going to have a ukulele next time. The book is How to Win a Trade War? Airplane reading even not trans Atlanta to Richmond, New York to Richmond, pretty good, to say the least. I can't say enough about this. A lot of other people are on board. What Canes and Bone have done to really bring us up to date. A lot going on in trade.
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