Court Blocks Trump Global Tariffs as Nvidia Lift Markets - podcast episode cover

Court Blocks Trump Global Tariffs as Nvidia Lift Markets

May 29, 202536 min
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Episode description

Watch Tom and Paul LIVE every day on YouTube: http://bit.ly/3vTiACF.
Bloomberg Surveillance hosted by Tom Keene & Paul SweeneyMay 29th, 2025
Featuring:
1) Anastasia Amoroso, Chief Investment Strategist at iCapital, joins to talk about a resilient US economy and momentum in markets in spite of Washington uncertainty. After a US court blocked the bulk of President Donald Trump's import tariffs, it led to widespread gains in risk assets and lifted investor sentiment.
2) Dan Ives, Global Head: Technology at Wedbush Securities, reacts to Nvidia earnings and discusses the outlook for the company and Big Tech. Nvidia is ramping up production of its latest semiconductor design, Blackwell, and is offering its chips as part of whole computer systems to speed up AI deployment.
3) Andrew Gilbert, Partner at ECP, joins to discuss demand for AI data centers and the immense growth opportunity following another Nvidia earnings. Nvidia's CEO Jensen Huang is concerned about US trade restrictions on China hindering the company's long-term growth, and is appealing to the Trump administration to allow chip production for China again.
4) Wendy Schiller, professor at Brown University, discusses the latest DC headlines and how a US court blocking President Trump's tariff policy could affect his presidency and potentially his legacy. A US court has blocked many of President Trump's tariffs on imports from dozens of countries, declaring them illegal and throwing his tariff strategy into turmoil.
5) Lisa Mateo joins with the latest headlines in newspapers across the US, including a WSJ story on Paramount's relationship with the White House and Bloomberg's story on how AI is impacting hiring at Salesforce.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Transcript

Speaker 1

Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. This is the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. Catch us live weekdays at seven am Eastern on Apple CarPlay or Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.

Speaker 2

No one better than Anastasia Amroso, chief investment strategist at ICAP, who was trumpeting large cap growth participate when it was a very lonely call. Let's recapitulate right now, I'm hearing people come over to the Amoroso side. Is it still large cap growth in tech? Look?

Speaker 3

I think so. I think back in March we were talking about the sell off being temporary, and of course you know you were now in late May and here we are. The SAP is up, and actually we talked about software, and software is up. AI software in particular is up about twelve percent for the year. So yes, I think the reasons are still plentiful to continue to stick with stocks. And you know, Tom, one of the things you have to do is you'll have to look

at the economy. And while the sentiment around the economy fell apart, the hard economic data never did so. As a result, we're still looking at two point three percent GDP growth this quarter when everybody was worried about the tariff impact. So that's the first thing. The second thing is the determination you just heard from Peter Navarro to cut those deals and continue to negotiate is absolutely there. So as long as that's the drum beat, then I think we have to discard any sort of data that

goes against that. And then the last thing I would say, tom you know, tomorrow we get the core PC inflation report, which is projected to be about two and a half percent, and whether it's oil prices that are lower, whether it's wages that are lower, all of that is supportive. So I still think investors are not tapped out. It's not max bullish by any means. So I think we add here.

Speaker 2

I have been brought up the three point ex trillion of cash Paul out there.

Speaker 4

Yep, Yes, it's always been out there. I mean earlier this year it was out of the US, out of cyclicals, out of tech. Now it seems to be if I look at the S and P five hundred, if I look at nastacy, it seems to be that that trade's getting reverse ship hereople coming investments, coming back to the US, back into cyclicals, back into tech. Was it just a what was that?

Speaker 3

Oh, there's a lot of discussion around that. And first of all, the month of May has all been about these star reversals back into the US tech and back into the US and back into cyclicals. But if you actually look at the performance here to date, it's the defensive sectors like utilities, for example, that lead the SMP. They're up about five or six percent. The semiconductors, for example, are down about five to six percent. So I don't

think it's actually too late for this rotation trade. And look, we were never in the camp of the US exceptionalism being over, because what's not over, for example, is the fact that we have one of the most constructive tax policies relative to our developed market peers. The fact that the corporate tax rate in the US is twenty one percent and with some write offs, maybe is the effective

one is even eighteen percent. That is a very constructive environment to do business in the United States, and obviously that's what the administration is trying to foster through terror policy as well.

Speaker 4

Do we have to bring the evaluation discussion back on the table because boy, when the market's sold off, a lot of folks are saying, wait, eighteen times earnings, I'm going to go in and buy this thing. But now we're back, you know above twenty times, How do you think about earnings? Because there still may be some earnings risk.

Speaker 3

In this market, right, So a few weeks ago we sort of had when we didn't know what is likely to happen with terrorists, we sort of had this binary risk. We either have to price in a recession and therefore recession or earnings, which could have taken us well, it has taken us as low as five thousand, but could have taken us lower if we also had to assign

a recession in multiple. Now we don't have to assign a recession in multiple, and we actually have to focus on the earnings not only this year but next year, which are expected to be around three hundred and seven dollars. So if you apply the existing multiple to that, you actually do get north of six thousand on the S and P five hundred. And that's why to Tom's point, I say, large cap stocks are certainly worth staying with.

Speaker 2

What does free cash flow look like? In use of cash? I mean back when you were lonely and correct. The answer is the free cash flow came in and I'm hearing a lot of fancy Well, it's not going to be this first second derivative, Da da da da da. Do you see sustained free cash flow by the market leaders?

Speaker 3

I mean, look, I do, and the use of free cash flow I think certainly would benefit the share repurchases and buybacks, and Tom, that's what we're seeing in the market. We actually have some of the record authorizations for corporate buybacks and that is such a strong presence in the market as well, which is why I say market participants are not tapped out. It's individual investors, it's hedge funds,

it's CTAs, but it's also corporate is buying back those shares. Look, the beauty of the setup, Tom, is a corporate margins are in your highs and so there's a lot of room to absorb the potential negative impact of tariffs.

Speaker 2

Just quickly here, how lonely do you feel now? Is everybody in the AMRO support I think it's sort of a pretty lonely call. There's a lot of fear out there, right, you know.

Speaker 3

I still think there's a degree of fear out there. But I'll just quote these stats you know that you know, back in April you had about sixty six percent of investors that were bearish. That is not the number today. It's probably closer to thirty percent now, couple. It's a big reversal. A couple of weeks ago you probably had only twenty percent of investors that were bullish. Today that's about thirty seven percent, But it's not fifty It's not half of the investors that we're in the bullish camp

to start the year. So I think we need a few more to join the party.

Speaker 2

Don't be a stranger. Come back again to sure of visits today. Anastasia am Aroso with that capital, She's been courageous about long in the market for years.

Speaker 1

You're listening to the Bloomberg Surveillance podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from seven to ten am Eastern Listen on Applecarplay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app, or watch us live on YouTube.

Speaker 2

Now joining US d ives in videos not Cisco right.

Speaker 5

It's almost an insult to in video when you say look because the reality is that it's a fourth Industrial revolution and it's being led by godfather of AI, Jensen and video. There's only one chip in the world, few on this and that's why I believe four trillion and eventually five trillion is where we're going to see for in.

Speaker 2

Okay, in the ives perspectives on this page forty two risk factors. What's the risk factor for the certitude this thing's going to work out?

Speaker 5

Look, I mean when you think about China, and obviously that's all factored in here. I mean, anything that gets a little positive in terms of moves on trade and tariffs between US and China is ultimately that that to me right now, the biggest risk is just trying to and I think Jensen called it out shout across about Trump administration. You're essentially giving away the China business because of the AH twenty to Huawei, and that's the biggest risk. But tom it just comes down to, like it is

Jensen and Nvidia's world. Everyone else is paying rent when it comes to AI.

Speaker 4

So what was the biggest takeaway from the earnings?

Speaker 5

Last night?

Speaker 4

It stocks up five six percent this morning, what's the street taken away from it?

Speaker 5

Was a staggering quarter in a bullish way relative to the demand. I believe right now, demands that Truman supply eight to one.

Speaker 4

You got SOPs supplying supply eight to one.

Speaker 6

Eight to one.

Speaker 4

Wow, So what where does this company go? What does Nvidia do now to kind of take advantage of that demand out there?

Speaker 5

It's when you think about autonomous robotics physical AI. Eventually keen with a robot, you know, in his in his palace.

Speaker 2

You've been talking to Mikey.

Speaker 5

Look, this is the only way it's fueled is by Nvidia. So to me, now, the AI revolution coming to Middle East sovereigns they want to be online.

Speaker 2

It's on a unit basis. They're selling these things, right, do you have a linear I mean, I got seventy seven percent up free cash flow, but these numbers we've never seen this. How do you extrapolate the unit growth into the future. Forget about price, forget about tech boys with their fancy shoes and you going out to all the conferences you go to on a unit basis? Is it a linear extrapolation?

Speaker 5

Look, it's it's unprecedent in terms of what we've seen. But to give granted, but if you look, it's almost it's linear. But to the point that right now you only have three percent of enterprises in the US that have actually even gone down the AI path. So when you think about the demand trajectory and where we ultimately see this playing out, I mean you will be on a trajector to ten dollars today.

Speaker 2

Paul knows it. Cold pract and gamble. What in God's name is shamp vellow ballsom shampoo. What are they gonna do with AI?

Speaker 5

They're gonna look at marketing penetration and customers. They're gonna look at all their data, probably seventy percent of it that they basically they have not analyzed, and they're gonna come up with eight, ten, fifteen use cases for how AI agents could be deployed. Which is bullish from Microsoft, bullish from MESSI of AI pound tier, bullish ultimately for the rest of the food chain.

Speaker 2

Well, I looked at the chart yesterday. I mean the quiet story at Q two is the moonshot in Microsoft maybe record highs this morning, yep, yep.

Speaker 4

So Nvidia expec's revenue about forty five million in forty five billion in the second fiscal quarter despite new export restrictions costing about eight billion. That's a headwind.

Speaker 5

Okay, let's just talk Apple, And there's why the stocks up Apples to Apples Street, which is say April second, you know libration, they didn't happen streets at forty eight billion, yep, okay, Apples Apples, it would have been fifty three a five billion piece. So Paul, that to me, it's when but that speaks apples to apples, and everyone recognizes, I mean you are you're looking at something that's really been unpressed and I had relative to what we're seeing with them.

Speaker 2

Can I on it?

Speaker 4

Can my chip guys do a workaround whatever the US restrictions are?

Speaker 5

Well, that's that the market's basically reading through this saying at one point you're gonna have to come to the table. Part of negotiations. When you get chips on the table, it's in video, it's Apple. When you think about trum administration, come to the table. And and that's something where there could be some work around eight billion that they've given away, maybe half of that they get back.

Speaker 2

Okay, Apple. Unfortunately the chart doesn't look like Microsoft. I got Apple right now down twenty two percent from the peak. We don't have time for the Why how does Tim Cook turn it around?

Speaker 5

I mean he this is continues to be a hall of fame moment in terms of how he's now the get moment.

Speaker 2

Come on, Paul told me to buy this thing at the beginning of the year. I'm down twenty, but not a hall of fame moment.

Speaker 5

It's a hall of fame moment relative to the China tariffs and getting around in ultimately India being the life raft. You're gonna have sixty five seventy percent of assembly coming out of India. And I think, look, no company is more caught in the storm when it comes tariffs than Cook and Cooper. Tina will be at WWDC. It's the start of that broader AI strategy. I first said that last year, No and Tom. If you take out tariffs, this is a stock that's forty to fifty dollars higher.

So my view is that Cook is ten percent politician, nineteen percent CEO. He'll navigate around this. And I think we city are six months from now. The name that I think is way miss priced is Apple.

Speaker 4

Elon's going back to work. It seems like, what do you expect it in the next six six months until.

Speaker 5

I mean the dark chapter is over right, and and I think it's bullet because now the autonomous and robotics feature is here. And ultimately, look this, it was a fork in the road moment he bet on Tasla, And now I think, even though there is still some brand damage that remains, we weave the path through to a two trillion dollar mark out for Tasla is now on the table.

Speaker 2

Lisa, if your daughter in her prom, if her date shows up in a tuxedo, that's that pink.

Speaker 7

That's the trend.

Speaker 4

Now that's what the kids are doing.

Speaker 2

The kids are doing. The kids going to show up in tuxedo with.

Speaker 7

Like no everything like bananas, pineapples, like whatever on this ser.

Speaker 2

Toxedo.

Speaker 5

Because I keep thinking, I keep waiting for the keen pink boats tie. We know, I think it's I think with AI it could be coming with.

Speaker 2

Today they said ives was here and I went with pink. But I think you look I did.

Speaker 5

It's phenomenal in the pink bow tie. I'm just I'm just saying.

Speaker 4

You know, I just give my charity yesterday you did what Yeah my tux seedo that had I had worn.

Speaker 7

In twenty years.

Speaker 6

Okay, that's why.

Speaker 2

Yeah, the difference, Paul, Paul, you would still get into the tex exactly my tuxedo from twenty years ago.

Speaker 5

It happened single best buy Apple, single best buye Here to me, it's Tesla, given the given the autonomous path, and must recommitted that continues to be front and center.

Speaker 2

You're pro. I'm an amateur. I don't buy it. I just can't get there, Paul, can you get there?

Speaker 6

I can't bet against Elon in this stock.

Speaker 4

It's just been.

Speaker 2

It's just been.

Speaker 4

It's been amazing story. And if he's back, if he's really back, that's good for that He's back.

Speaker 2

That's the way we rolled. Dan's Thank you so much.

Speaker 1

This is the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. Listen live each weekday starting at seven am Eastern on Apple Corplay.

Speaker 8

And Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App.

Speaker 1

You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station, Just say Alexa, play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

Speaker 2

It is the most important interview of the day, folks, Riveting America is with Andrew Gilbert joining us. Now he's with ECP, but forget about that, far far more. Andrew Gilbert has a massive cred out of stern On Data Centers. Yep, you need to be neuutilities. I have seen the collective's amount of hot air from people that didn't take thermodynamics now is off the chart. Cut to the chase. Is retail Electric America going to pay for Microsoft or in Video's data center electric bill?

Speaker 6

Well, first, thanks for having me on.

Speaker 9

Happy to be here in really exciting time in our industry for nuts for twenty five years, no growth, and all of a sudden, we're on TV here after Nvidia earnings.

Speaker 2

It's better than me, so it works. Are we going to pay for nvidious data center?

Speaker 7

Yeah?

Speaker 6

So across across it's a great question.

Speaker 9

Across the country, regulators are trying to figure out how to make those companies pay for it, How to make Microsoft, Amazon pay for it.

Speaker 2

Confidence they will, they will, and.

Speaker 9

I think they're already finding a better way to do that in competitive markets. So regulated utilities want you and I to pay it on our content bill, But competitive markets it's different. Companies like ours invest in competitive generation and we take the risk. And I think that's the big difference between regulated areas like the southeast of the country and competitive markets like the Northeast and Texas.

Speaker 4

So how do we power all these data centers. What's the what's the path forward? Because I keep seeing Nvidia and other companies from Microsoft and that we're building, We're building, we're building, we're building. You've got to power this stuff. I mean, I watch landman, I know how the oil and gams industry works.

Speaker 2

Oh, here we go.

Speaker 5

Talk to us.

Speaker 6

How we're going to power this stuff with everything?

Speaker 2

Okay?

Speaker 9

This this is an industry that really again hasn't had much demand growth, all of a sudden has an explosion of it, and so we're going to need electricity from all sources. Gas is going to have to be a big component of it. Renewables as well, and that stuff faces challenges with with tariffs and protectionist policies, with tax credit risk on the renewable side. On the gas side, it's just industry that for a while was sort of

adapting to almost no growth. So companies like ge Vernova and Siemens are ramping up production capacity, but it's not there yet, so it's going to take time.

Speaker 4

Is it a public private partnership here? What's the regulatory environment that you guys in on the financial side.

Speaker 5

Need to see?

Speaker 9

Uncertainty has been I think used a lot in the show and many shows recently. We need policy certainty. The industry is ready to make investment the investments needed the industry.

Speaker 4

What is the industry? Is it just the power industry?

Speaker 2

Is it old?

Speaker 4

Is it exceon Mobile?

Speaker 2

Is electric?

Speaker 9

It's competitive generators like Constellation, Vistra Energy Talent companies like that are the companies that going to move more quickly than regulated utilities. But regular utilities, the dominions, the southerns, they will be part of this too.

Speaker 2

Ge Vernova GV, I really don't know what it is. All I know is mister Colp's genius. I got a moonshot one fifty to four eighty five. Is that the future of your business, whether it's private you know, like your shop like ECP or public utilities boring Grammar, stock dominion. I need to divo it an increase. Is this total return of ge Fornova the future?

Speaker 9

It's all about the shortage of gas turbines. That's what's driving gev's performance and that's what we're seeing.

Speaker 2

Yeah, but guess turbines aren't spinning windmules going around. Don't give me this renewable energy. Song and dance is traditional energy. Dare I say coal going to power Microsoft's need for the fourteenth data center.

Speaker 9

Colon not Cole will survive a bit longer, but it's declining and that's not going to change. Gas has really changed. Gas has been the biggest kind of placement of coal, and that's going to accelerate because data centers need twenty four to seven electricity. Wind in solar don't provide that, but wind in solar are cheap and that they can be constructed quickly. So we need all of it to meet this challenge. You can't do it with one feel source.

Speaker 2

See that.

Speaker 4

That's what I've understood.

Speaker 1

You got to have it all.

Speaker 4

Talk to us about nuclear I like the modular nuclear things. Pop that baby right next to a data center. Let it power it is that realistic?

Speaker 9

Well, if you're willing to pay I don't know, seven times the price of gas, maybe really and we think it will be a factor that cost will come down over time, but it's not ready two years from now. It's probably ten years from now.

Speaker 2

Man, I thought that was a cool, Well, this is fascining. He's gonna be with us for the next four hours. Andrew Gilbert with us. He's partner at ECP. We've been dying to do this. Palls in the meeting at three am. When are we going to do data centers? We're doing it right now. Are the tech companies open or are they opaque about their plan? It's like they're like, you know, we have to keep our image jump. If you know, Cooper Tino, they're out there wearing sneakers and you know,

you know they're Lulu Lemon and all that. Are they Are they transparent about their electrical demand needs?

Speaker 6

Well, what's we mentioned uncertainty.

Speaker 9

What's certain is the top five or six companies are going to spend four hundred million dollars a year on this stuff. And that's good and that's going to drive electricity demand growth.

Speaker 6

Yes, per year.

Speaker 9

On the on the opacity, sure, it's hard to get projects connected. So if you're a meta and you have a two gigawatt need, you're going to apply for projects in different parts of each market and hope that one of them kind of gets service, gets connected. So you've got to make sure. You've got to have contingency plans. So I think they're doing some of that. I think they're becoming more transparent.

Speaker 4

You're thirty eight years old, dude, how did you You guys are doing some serious stuff at ECPs. What's the focus of what you guys are doing. You're investing equity credit for power generation? Where's the where's the next five years?

Speaker 9

As I mentioned before, this industry was even the electricity I think is the most exciting commodity in the world.

Speaker 6

Nobody cared about it three years ago.

Speaker 2

I've seen you at a bar. The whole bar goes to sleep when you start talking gigawatts.

Speaker 6

But that is our focus, and it's an industry all of a sudden is growing.

Speaker 4

Is this an administration that wants to support smart energy development, whether it's fossil fuels or green I hope.

Speaker 2

So. Okay, how'd you react when Spain went dark? To me the heart of the matter. You know, I did a little bit of the act. Yes, I survived thermodynamics, folks, not quantum mechanics. But that's a different story. Okay, great Spain goes dark because of the grid and the rap is. I'm speaking out of turn, folks, a bunch of touchy feely theory. How does America avoid apearch black Spain for two days?

Speaker 9

I think it's about paying and compensating generators for reliability. A big challenge in the electricity market is the capacity that's not needed most of the time, but is needed in that five percent scenario. And you've got to make sure those those units are compensated, and they're starting.

Speaker 2

To be and honor Dan Fuss, Boston, Looma's sales. Can Quebec Hydro come to the rescue. Can the Canadians be a data center conduit to keep us in or is it just too far to get it to some data center in French Hills, Arkansas?

Speaker 9

They need they need it up there too, need it up there up there, especially during the winter. So it's it's not twenty four to seven reliable type type generation, which is what we need now.

Speaker 2

Lisa emails in, should I put solar panels on my garage roof?

Speaker 9

Maybe maybe losing that tax credit soon to do that so it could get a little bit more expensive.

Speaker 2

Should we have the text credit? Yes, it's radio. You got to talk.

Speaker 4

What's the I mean, just real quickly, what's the what's the next investment you guys want to make? Where do you want to put capital for your Where do you want to put your client's capital?

Speaker 6

Today it's it's powering data centers.

Speaker 9

So it's partnering with the biggest companies in the world to supply these needs and to make sure that rate payers aren't paying for it so it doesn't show up on our electricity bills.

Speaker 2

Unfair question. Final question, Andrew Gilbert, which traditional utility has best practices for the future.

Speaker 6

I think what.

Speaker 9

Some of the western utilities are doing in terms of hardening and the efforts they're making around wildfire prevention is excellent. It's a huge challenge they face to keep that, to keep the wire safe, to keep people safe, and I think they're doing a fantastic job turning those businesses around.

Speaker 2

Don't be strange.

Speaker 6

Yeah, I would love to come back.

Speaker 2

Do you pay the congestion tax? Or who figure out get around that? It's tough. It's tough, absolutely superb But folks, I hope you love this. Somebody said, Lisa or Paul came to the rescue and so get some geek on all the data center elector stuff. Andrew Gilbert, did you do take thermodynamics?

Speaker 10

And I did not.

Speaker 6

I'm not bright enough for that stuff.

Speaker 2

That's all.

Speaker 4

He's a banker.

Speaker 2

Andrew Gilbert, thank you so much. With ECP, we'll do This again is the story, huge story.

Speaker 1

This is the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. Listen live each weekday starting at seven am Eastern on Apple Corplay.

Speaker 8

And Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app.

Speaker 1

You can also watch us live every weekday on YouTube and always on the Bloomberg terminal.

Speaker 2

We are honored to bring you the nation's expert in civics or textbooks are absolutely foundational. Wendy Schiller is professor at Brown University, the Tubyne Center and such. Wendy, so honored to have you here. The document is incredibly detailed for a hack like me. Halfway through on page twenty five discussion, they go right to the Shiller matter. They go right back to seventeen eighty eight, James Madison, Federalists

number forty eight. Where's the legislature? Whatever you believe in, folks, whatever the issue is, pro Trump, anti Trump, etc. Wendy Schiller, where is the legislature in this tariff battle?

Speaker 10

Well, it's fascinating that the court, this sort of structure for tariff courts, has now intervened and said these are illegal. You would have thought the Congress with you know, tariffs are import taxes. Congress, particularly the House of Representatives have a constitutional authority to generate revenue and to authorize spending. Only the House can initiate that, and so they do have jurisdiction over tariffs. And the president can suspend the rules,

you know, indefinitely if he so chooses. But the idea was that this is just for an emergency and that the power really rests with Congress. But the Republican dominated House and Senate has chos and to let the president extend this authority literally.

Speaker 8

Chosen to do that.

Speaker 10

They could have repriked it earlier this year, but they didn't. So this is really fascinating that now the court that is part of the trade, international trade and domestic trade system has said no, these are illegal. Where is Congress?

Speaker 2

What will the appeal process looked like? Peter Navarro with this year in an hour and a half from sixteen hundred Pennsylvania Avenue Professor Schuler, Navarro's going to be apoplectic over this. Who does the Trump administration appeal to? Who are those guys?

Speaker 10

Well, that's the big question mark, I mean everything. This is sort of an embedded government structure. So you know, when you think about the final word, who has the final word? And the Trump administration is not that interested in any other structure in the American piblical system having of power over them.

Speaker 2

You know, does everything go to.

Speaker 10

The Supreme Court? And the Supreme Court is interesting to watch. We have a lot of decisions coming down in June that we can expect, and you know, where do they reign in executive power? And the important thing with the Supreme Court is to make sure this isn't about Donald Trump. This is about the balance of power in the system itself. So that's where the education on tariffs lie. In immigration, and we've seen the Court say to the President and Congress.

Congress has authority to make the laws on immigration, make the laws. The president cannot just create immigration law. So is that the same thing that will be applied to tariffs. We're probably about to find out.

Speaker 4

So, Wendy, what happens in the interim here? I mean, I feel like the United States negotiating with dozens of countries over tariffs. What do I do if I'm I don't know, China, Canada, Mexico, What do I do now with this ruling?

Speaker 2

Well, I mean, when you think.

Speaker 10

About the other countries, she also think about small businesses. Rhode Island is to state with a disproportionate amount of small business owners.

Speaker 8

How do they plan? You know, are you paying the tax?

Speaker 10

Are you're not paying the attacks? And I call it attacks because it is a tax, a tariff.

Speaker 6

You know, what do you do?

Speaker 10

Do you reach your prices?

Speaker 2

Now? You know? How much do you order?

Speaker 10

What do we think about the economy? It creates and generates of course uncertainty. We saw the markets react badly to major tariffs, then they come down. Now the market is settled, and now there's continued uncertainty. So if you're Navarro and you want to make the argument that government that businesses should invest in the United States, they need a stable, consistent business environment. And right now the trumpinstration is not providing a stable and consistent business environment.

Speaker 4

How how hard do you think the Trump administration will fight this court ruling and fight for its tariff mandates.

Speaker 10

The instinct to fight comes straight from the top.

Speaker 2

Yep.

Speaker 10

Trump is a fighter and he doesn't like limits on his power. You know, he could be talked into lowering them, and he has been talked into lowering them. And so when you think about this, the president will fight for the sake of retaining executive power, and Congress has to send him a signal eventually, but they aren't acting on that. Again, when we look at this tax bill, once it's out

of the way, what does Conger doud reserve itself. I don't have great expectations for Congress to reserve itself once this tax bill is done. I think the Republicans realize that's not the only thing they're gonna get done this year.

Speaker 2

And your commute across the nation. A hugely eventful Thursday with legal opinions which will brief you on a number of times. Yere across the morning. Good Morning on YouTube worldwide as well. Wendy Schiller of Brown University is with us today. Wendy, I'm just going to cherry pick here. And a gentleman from New Jersey, Samuel Alito, is on

the Supreme Court. Let's assume if it's a decision of eight to one, seven to two, nine to one, whatever, ninety two, three four, Alito's leading a certain charge to support the executive branch. Describe the thinking of the people like Judge Alito, who says, wait, you three judge, Court, you can't do that. Describe Alito's federalists and Madisonian vial me.

Speaker 10

When you look at Alito and Thomas, they're different, I think in the way they vote a lot similarly a lot of the time. But Alito truly believes that the entire apparatus of the federal government is far too large and is completely inconsistent with the constitutional structure and the intent of the federal government as it was created, which was basically to protect the national defenses and allow an economy to flourish, but basically let the original thirteen colonies

live the way they were. They were very different from each other when they entered into the Union. And so his argument is, nobody ever built, nobody ever intended for this to be so big, nobody wanted it to bill out this large. So I'm going to take every opportunity

to basically reduce the scope of the government. And what he believes is that Congress drives the size of the federal government, and not the President, that the President executes, but that the president can in fact reduce the size of the government.

Speaker 2

This is so important, I got to squeeze it in, Professor Schuller, I look at a three judge court, Reagan, Trump, what was it? Obama? Reagan Trump Obama judges. Nobody's talking a regionalist theory here. They're just talking nuts and bolts of a nineteen seventy seven agreement. And the huge detail in their professionalism is this going to just go back to originalist theory a la Thomas and Alito and what President Trump supports.

Speaker 10

The problem for Thomas and Aldo to do that is that original theory literally in not only the Federalist papers, but the Constitution itself, is that the House controls tariff policy. That you can't just wake up in the morning and say I'm going to impost one hundred and thirty percent or forty five percent on an individual country if you're the president of the United States, only under extraordinary circumstances.

And the Constitution and the founders are very clear that when you execute these powers as president in extraordinary circumstances, those circumstances have to be extraordinary. So this is the problem for Ledo on Thomason. Goes completely against their theory of originalism to put all this power and opportunity in the president's hands, and the Constitution that's quite explicit that it should rest with the Congress, particularly the House represent.

Speaker 2

I can't Imagine your day, Wendy Show, Thank you so much for being with us this morning with Brown University.

Speaker 1

This is the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. Listen live each weekday starting at seven am Eastern on Apple, Cocklay.

Speaker 8

And Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App.

Speaker 1

You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station, Just say Alexa Play Bloomberg eleven thirty Lisa Matteo.

Speaker 2

Now with the newspapers, what do you happen?

Speaker 7

All right, I'm starting with this Wall Street Journal exclusive. This is about Paramount Global. They're offering reportedly offering President Trump fifteen million dollars to settle that lawsuit he had against Paramount CBS News, But sources are telling the journal that the President feels it's not enough. He wants more than twenty five million. He also reportedly wants an apology from CBS. If you remember that lawsuit, it was it all surrounds how the network supposedly edited a sixty minutes

interview with Kamala Harris to make her sound better. CBS says that's not true, but they're all also saying that the President's team has dreatened another lawsuit against CBS related to bias on its news coverage. But there's supposed to be a session today like where this is unprecedented.

Speaker 2

I mean, isn't CBS supposed to fight back? Is the news?

Speaker 4

The reason they're not fighting back is they have a planned merger with Skydance Media and they want.

Speaker 2

That to go through.

Speaker 4

They need the FCC approval and presumably there's some concerns that the government will use this suit as a reason not to approve the deal. Sherry Redstone needs the merger to go through so she can get paid out. It's as simple as that. So it's uh, you know, they'll come to something.

Speaker 2

We've seen some just point out separate from this news. We've seen resignations at CBS.

Speaker 6

Yeah, I mean, yep.

Speaker 2

There's a lot, a lot going on.

Speaker 4

There, a lot going on there, and it's all because they need to get this deal approved and get it through. So it's all about money as it just as it always is.

Speaker 7

Neclas Okay, all right, we'll take you to luxury okay, lvmh Okay. They said they could increase the price bits goods by about three percent to office at tariffs. But there are two things that they say they cannot raise a price on and that is cognac and lower priced beauty products, the lower priced end.

Speaker 2

Uh.

Speaker 7

They say things like jewelry, those high end jewelry they can withstand the price increases because their buyers can take on the price increases.

Speaker 8

But they've had a.

Speaker 7

Tough time with the alcohol sales. Apparently the Konnak Spirits division they've dipped in the past year. They're selling fewer champagne bottles on top of it too, so they're saying those are the things they can't.

Speaker 5

I don't think I've ever had.

Speaker 4

Cognac is a variety of brandy named after the Commune of Cognac, France.

Speaker 6

All right, it's not bad, Yeah, yes, Cognac.

Speaker 7

I did a little Hennessy sometimes.

Speaker 6

In the desk.

Speaker 4

It's the Hennessy Cognac, all.

Speaker 7

Right, it has and Champagne.

Speaker 2

I can't remember the name of the company now, but it's a small, secure French thing, and like one third of their business is Cognac or whatever. And it ain't happening. I mean, it's not just LV, it's overall. So they're not lowering the price of all the merch that sundry Keenes.

Speaker 7

Look at of the cognac and the spirits of the other high end jewelry and that kind of stuff.

Speaker 2

Lewis Viewton shoes too much for the prom.

Speaker 7

Yes, definitely, that was a discussions. You can't even see the feet with the dress, so don't even think about it. Next, we've been talking a lot about AI and will they replace jobs, right, so this story about salesforce kind of puts that into perspective a little bit. They said they're reducing the hiring for some roles because of its AI tools.

So its CFO gave this example and she said five hundred customer service workers will be moved to different positions within the company and that'll save them about fifty million dollars. Also said they're hiring fewer engineers on top of it. They say they hope it's going to make their staff more productive. But at the same time, where they're increasing are the ranks of its salesforce. So that's where they're

starting to see the difference. But we've seen it, you know, different companies like Microsoft told.

Speaker 4

Offspring number three, get to a business where you have a revenue number next to your.

Speaker 2

Name, that's it.

Speaker 4

That's my strategy, that's my advice. You know, get to a business, and so salesforce?

Speaker 2

Do you do you believe equipment? We don't have the time here, but like all these jobs are going to go away, I just don't buy it.

Speaker 4

Well, I think a lot of them are. I mean, I just think of my investment banking business. I mean, do I need three analysts staffed on a deal to draft inspect models. I don't think so.

Speaker 6

I don't think so.

Speaker 4

So I think there's gonna be an issue there.

Speaker 2

The newspaper SAIDY Lisa Matteo, thank you so much.

Speaker 1

This is the Bloomberg Surveillance podcast, available on Apple, Spotify, and anywhere else you get your podcasts. Listen live each weekday, seven to ten am Easter and on Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app, tune In, and the Bloomberg Business app. You can also watch us live every weekday on YouTube and always on the Bloomberg terminal

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