Central Bankers Should've Been More Aggressive, Rogoff Says

and of course on the Bloomberg Market. Sist all summity in weekend this morning, as the Bank of Japan kept its lunchist in this program on changed to make a got a boost. As a result, will Central Bank also pushed back the projected timing for reaching it's two percent inflation target for a six time or for more. We're joined by Kathy mat Suey Goldman Sachs, Japan Vice President and chief Equity stretches to here in London, we still have Richard turning Blackbrock. Cathy, great to have you on

the program. What do you make of the challenges for the b o j What is their number one question that investors want answered, is it inflation or is it just simply well Governor Croda stay on after his term ends in two thousand and eighteen. Well, I think the top of mind question for many investors that we speak with is UH, what is the kind of the endgame for this so called yield curve control, quantitative easing framework

and asset purchase program. Of course, you mentioned the other question, which is will Coroda stay on as central bank governor here post his UH expiration of next April? But the number one question is how much longer can the Banque

of Japan sustain the current program? For what it's worth, our view is because they've set their inflation target quite high and ambitious at two percent, it is quite likely that they will persist with the current framework, including both yield curve control as well as the asset purchases that they are currently executing. Having said that, we are also of the view that there are some signs of UH

of inflation beginning to creep through some green shoots. Wages are beginning to pick up, Inflation expectations are creeping a little bit higher, while not the two percent that the Bank of Japan is aiming for, we are definitely going to start to see some increasing signs of inflation, we think in the next six to twelve months down the road.

But yeah, by again delaying the time for hitting their price targets where their price goals, is the bo J effectively acknowledging that they'll need to continue easing for many years to come. It would appear so UM and so we don't know exactly how long that will be. And again a lot will ride on whether KROTA stays or

leaves post next spring. But for the time being, the fact that they did delay or postpone the timeline for reaching their target inflation level, obviously the market is interpreting that as more for longer UH. And so I think we're seeing a divergence of central banks UH. The FED and the e c BE on the one hand, versus the Bank of Japan is probably going to continue this quite aggressive stimulus program at least for the foreseeable future. Kathy, good morning. I want to bring up a chart here.

Let's bring it up right now. This is Japan nominal g d P. We've got Robert Schiller with us in the next hour, where there's acclaimed work with Professor Akerloff. Mr Janet yelling on animal spirit. The animal spirit Kathy is evaporated. Nominal g d P, which was really on an albionomics friendly trend. Here's the US hurdle rate of four percent nominal it's failed, it's rolled over. How critic

is it that nominal GDP has rolled over? Um, it's obviously, you know, super critical because at the end of the day, I think corporate managers and mrs what another think in nominal terms as opposed to real terms. Right, uh So, clearly, you know, there has been an initial sort of jump start to getting the economy out of the getting growth to expand in all of that, but more needs to

be done. And I think the concern of the markets is that the government currently in Japan may be distracted by other issues and needs to refocus its attention on the economy, stimulating the economy, trying to get those animal spirits to revive once again. Not to be fair, the corporate sector is in completely fine shape and we have record profits, record profit markets, record cash balances, so it's

not as if there's no cash around. But you you're putting thing on the right point, which is where is the trigger, where's the catalyst to get corporate managers to deploy that cash into the real economy through capex and other means to lead to a virtuous cycle. But again, it's not as if everything is in inflation. And back to five years ago. We are a little much better place than we were five years ago, but more needs to be done to make sure the cycle is sustained.

Go go back to this chart if you what, I want to do this on television, like it's Facebook Live right now. You're gonna see me make the sausage right now, which is the average twenty year line of nominal g d P. You can barely see it there. I'm gonna make it a big, bright, ugly red for you. Nominal GDP over two decades in Japan his flat line. So there you go, there's that red line right down by zero. I mean, is there any demand by society Kathy in

Japan to jump start societal animal spirit? Are they all doing this for Honda and Toyota? Well, I think I think you have to think about this in terms of uh if. For example, if you look at the demographic I call it, the demograph would divide right the older Japanese cohorts who are retired no more you know, earned income,

but they're trying to live off their savings. Frankly, for them, deflation is the best thing since life, because deflation means they can stretch their savings, right, Versus those that are not retired, they're younger, they're seeing their wages a stagnant or falling. So it's been this real battle between these two cohorts. Uh And we had seen, of course the dominant,

that the former group really winning the game. But now the other group is now beginning to raise its voices and say, look, this is not good for us, it's not good for posterity. We really need to change the dynamic here. So again I think you're painting a picture that is exactly why albinomics came came through, right, It's exactly why the society said enough is enough. We made the sort of the retired community happy for a while,

but this is really terrible for our future. Again, the verdict is still out whether this is going to be sustainable and successful sufficiently, but at least I think they've come to recognize as a society that we can't just you know, sort of cater to that formal move any longer. I cannot throw off as a mention here in our Bloomberg and Lemons your studios in New York. Great to

have you applies. Let me start by asking you to respond to what we're seeing here out of Brussels, the beginnings of these negotiations between the the U and the UK obviously early stages here yet, but in terms of what's what the flashpoints are, what the big issues are, how do you respond to it? To what we're hearing here about sort of the issue of citizens rights in the UK and how being an issue that's going to be going forward. I don't even know where to start.

I wonder what I would say that the sort of damocles as hanging over the UK here with this bracts that they haven't begun to feel the effects, particularly the financial sector. If they have to move twenty percent of the financial sector out of London, it's going to be very, very painful for the UK economy. I think they'll come to some kind of reasonable agreement on citizenship and citizens rights, but I don't know. Tor resume had this disastrous election, uh,

will the government fall? I mean, it's hard to see how long they can last when they don't really have the power to negotiate and whether the very thin working majority they have will fray. So it's very very hard for her to, uh, you know, really come to a deal here. And yet the clock is ticking. We had this ECB form a couple of weeks back in Central Portugal, and you had a number of central bankers talking about

working together, collaborate, that collaboration cooperation. I suppose you could say, among them, what did you make of what came out of that meeting in Central Well, obviously, you know, the most striking thing was what Mario Droggy said the markets paid attention to. But there is a lot of exchange of ideas across central banks. They're all seeing the same thing. And the biggest thing in the world over the last five or ten years has been the steady drop in

the inflation adjusted interest rate. For everybody, they weren't expecting it, it was. It's it's a couple percent lower than it was, you know, at the start of the financial crisis, and it's lasted and I don't know if it will stay.

But obviously, if you're talking about raising interest rates, but the you know, the rate of interest, that kind of clears the market when you adjust for inflation hasn't been rising, they won't, So I think that's gonna as that continues to get pushed out the day of quote unquote normalization of interest rates. They're all going so they're all seeing the same thing. Hey, interest rates were a lot higher

ten years ago, but where are they going now? There was a moment of misinterpretation, I suppose you could call it. During that that form, the market seem to misunderstand what Mario jogging intended to to say, how how big an issue steal this communication by central margages. We push a head here to a news conference from the the prison of the ECB later this morning. Are you satisfied with the green to which central bankers are communicating their policy positions. Well,

they each have different challenges. So in the case of Mario dragging, the European Central Bank is both fiscal policy and monetary policy for the Eurozone, and yet he has to couch it in this language about inflation, the quantitative easing and the slowing quantitative easing. It's not about inflation. It's about propping up bonds in Portugal, Italy and the rest of Europe. And if the Eurozone can't step in to do something. Maybe the new French president will be

able to catalyze something. It's a problem in the US. Actually, I think the interesting problem is it does matter what people think you're going to do two years from now, five years now, but the Fed doesn't even know what its constitution is going to be. Two years, five years from now. We have this uh, you know, disruptive president the Federal Reserve, you know, puts on a brave face.

Nothing's going to change whoever your points. He'll just get you know, institutionalized into the fat way of doing things. But the President Trump does an enormous power to appoint people can roll off with us with Harvard University, Good morning everyone, Green on the screen features up one, Features up eleven is David mentions Mr Drog will have a sporting morning, will of course have his important press conference in Q and a always a raft of headlines out

with Mr Drog. I want to get one monetary question in before we talk about and celebrate my book of the year, the Curse of Cash from last year, and I've felt Rogueff you spend a lot of Matthew moments on this strange word. Expectations are expectations different today because of technology, because of speed of news, speed of transfer, maybe because of a smarter household, of smarter consumer. Our

expectations different now than Obsfeld Rogueff of another time and place. Well, I sort of expectations of what I think they were pretty sophisticated for a long time, but inflations become something of a mystery. I think, what's going on with inflations? The world's adjusting to this ever lower lowering share of labor that's putting downwardressure on wages. And if wages aren't going up, there's not a lot of pressure on firms prices. That may turn around at some point, but it hasn't,

and that's that's mystified. How do you respond to Professor Roach of Yale University, Steve Roach, the great of invented Morgan Stanley economics, who says part of that inflation is asset inflation. Should we have a central bank that looks not only at inflation and jobs but also at asset dynamics? Well, so that's an age old question. Ben Bernanke addressed this

a lot. He had a very decisive answer no, And that's the classic central bank answers we care about asset price inflation to the extent if stock prices go up and people spend more money, it's upward pressure on output inflation. But we don't care about the stock prices themselves. We don't know what they should be. But in the case of housing and debt fueled housing, it's a little trickier because housing is often at the central center of financial crisis.

Canada recently raised its interest rate, pointing at housing. Um, you've got the safe box here with the cash, and on the cover of the new course of cash. If the death threats slowed down, Uh, yeah, they've slowed down a little bit. Although I just got one the other day. Just go on the other day. Do you have security up at Harvard like the president has two blocks over from us. I have had some of the people across the half of me wonder if they should move their office.

If somebody walks into their office my mistake now and asks their me. But no, I think in the in the new paperback that I put out, first of all, I extended the title to make it clear that my policy is not getting rid of cash, which it says on page one, page two about my policy is more about come on, cut to chase every building contractor hate your guns because they love being paid under the table in cash. The construction industry is a big user of

cash worldwide. There are lots of studies. I mean, I don't mean to pick on contractors have it and they're safe. And I mean, David, you're doing something over in Brooklyn on the man's so you pay the rule of the neighborhood and seriously you go to you're going to India, by the way. I don't have a moral thing about this. I mean I use cash. People my generation I'm sixty four use cash. I use cash. But I think the question is scale. Uh, you know how ordinary people use

cash for whatever reason. I don't have a moral thing about this, but we're a lot of the cash is using big dealings and huge cach like kill gardens on top of his roof and the sweet green over here, where I can use cash by a salad tongue. Well, that's a different matter, is David. I mentioned your year off to India. What will be your message to Indian

financial leaders about their experiment with the curse of cash? Quickly? Unfortunately? Well, I think whenever you're speaking to the India audience, it's they move very slowly. Actually normally normally they're moving in the right direction, but very slowly. And you you say, well, if you moved a little faster, it would be even better. In the case of this one, they moved way too fast.

David gerin time came with kenro of Harvard University and celebration of my book of the Year last year, The Curse of Cash Out in paperback with an important update on India. Professor I cut you off at our last section on the India. What can the United States? What can Europe learn about trying to deal with corruption and cash within the new Indian experiment? Well, I think India is innovated in a lot of ways to try to

have financial inclusion. Um, something I don't think we could do in the United States, although it probably happened someday. Is they have taken biometric data for now over one point one billion Indians and they're moving to do the rest and you get basically a free debit account when you get to do that. It's made financial inclusion very easy. And uh, they've also done things like make it impossible to pay certain kinds of license fees in cash you

have to pay online. It's a big source of corruption. They haven't done that with houses. Apartments and houses routinely trade for cash, and India it's an enormous source of corruption. But they're trying to approach these things. There's many, many dimensions. I think the demonetization, which is MODI called it was very theatric and maybe highlighted these things. I think he did it way too fast. I say you should take five to seven years. He did it in a few hours.

I don't think they did it the right way. I think that was counterproductive. But the larger picture, they've done a lot of good things. Ken, we are ten years on from a financial crisis. You are exceptionally generous with your time with Bloomberg on the economy and Bloomberg surveillance and the heat of two thousand and seven and two thousand eight. Of course you did your iconic book with Carmen Reinhardt. This time is different, Where this time is different?

Down ten years, what have you learned well? I mean, first I want to say, when academic study these things, they do it forever. Ben Bernanke wrote a path breaking paper reinterpreting the Great Depression in a way, we still think it's important fifty years after it happened. Barry Ikens Green's book on the gold standard ten years after that, so there's constant rethinking of this. Uh, but I think

it's still pretty robust. The results that Reinhardt and I got from this time is different, which shows that the run up to a financial crisis has pretty similar characteristics across time, across country, and it's never that painless. That is debated. There are papers by Michael Porto, David and Christina Romer who say, well, depends on what you call a financial crisis. I think we're focusing on deep systemic ones that have a big effect on the economy as

opposed to more minor ones. Did we do okay? Did the United States all the jumpeter of Harvard? Did we clear our markets better than others? Oh? I think the United States did very well not to have a great depression, and they, you know, certainly behaved very courageously and remarkably. Ben BERNANKI of course widely celebrated President Obama. Uh, you know,

his actions helped a lot. But George Bush also was very courageous going on with a fifty billion dollars stimulus right, you know, pretty quickly, contrary to like what all his beliefs and statements were, so they were very flexible. There's a lot of sort of Monday morning quarterbacking about what they should have done better. I think everyone agrees they should have done more infrastructure, they should have kept stimulus

going longer. But I think people forget that the forecasts that were coming out from the FED, from Wall Street, from everyone where that the Reinhardt rogue off was not going to happen. It was going to be much faster. And the White House and the Congress, we're looking at this and saying, well, why are we doing crazy things? That things are going to get better? And as aggressive as monetary policy was, I think it could have been

more aggressive. I think they were a little bit too concerned with maintaining inflation not going up, and not looking, you know, at really what the core problem was. Very quickly, you have but three seconds left. I wanted to sort of how your expectations for growth or your sense of where the U. S. Economy is going has changed in light of the disruptiveness. I think that was the word you used of of this president. How have you reavalid where you think things are heading well. I think for

the moment it's just growth deferred and not reversed. I think the US economy is fundamentally very strong, and if the President of the Senate and President Congress don't end up doing much, it could be a lot worse. Um So, I do think productivity will start to improve. I do think investment will start to come back. We've gone on this long trend, but at least part of that the aftermath of the financial crisis, there's this view of Robert Gordon,

We're not inventing anything anymore. I think that will look ridiculous in ten years. Can congratulations In my book of the Year last year, the Curse of Cash still most current out in paperback. Can't say enough about it, The Curse of Cash. This is Bloomer Brunts you by Bank of America Mary Lynch. With virtual reality, virtual everything will change. Discover opportunities in a transforming world, be of a mL dot Com, slash VR, Mary Lynch, Pierce Fenner and Smith Incorporated.

We've had a wonderful week on a housing Jonathan Miller joined us, who is truly the smartest guy on per square foot in the major cities Uh. Doug Duncan joined his studios in in his little cases. UH from Fannie May and now the academic authority were the late Carl Case of Wellesley and Harvard, Robert Scholler, the laureate from Yale. On a housing Bob Shower, Why isn't there affordable housing across much of California? Well? Uh, I would say restrictions

on supply. There's two kinds of restrictions as natural restriction uh, the mountains the ocean that limits building. But then there's other restrictions which are human created. Uh. And people are resistant to new construction. Uh. It's still possible in California, but people don't people existing homeowners don't want it. What what determines where there is affordable housing? Is it geographies

You've just mentioned the mountains, the oceans, etcetera. Or is it something more than that when you look at the world and you look at where you can find affordable housing in major cities. Yeah, there's evidence that geography matters. So part of it is you know, San Francisco is on a on a sort of peninsula around the Bay. Uh that limits uh, limits construction, and cities like that do have higher prices. That's a fact of life. Uh. Then the question is what other factors? Well, the other

factors are people preserving neighborhoods. And also there's a kind of a coordination problem. How can we what people like urban living? The problem is there isn't enough of it? How can we start new city centers? That's that's a difficult, difficult thing to do. It does happen eventually, It was a long lag. Let's let's chew on that or congitate on it. There, How how do you begin to do that?

As you think about that, as we hear stories of companies moving to new cities, new towns and and intending to grow. What what kick starts that kind of growth? It does take a long time, as you say, but what are the catalysts that make it work? Well? I think it has something to do with civic spirit, with people who who think about what to do with our city, people who plan, uh, and a general atmosphere of cooperation. So for example, Stanford can etiquette to go back fifty

to a hundred years, it was an industrial town. Uh, the industry started moving out. We were losing jobs to the foreign countries. But they decided that this is a city which is, uh, within an hour's commute of New York City on the rail line. So they were lucky they were on the rail line. And they decided to try to court corporate headquarters and get some out of out of the city. Whether it's it's more more lands prices are lower, and they transformed Stanford into a into

a like a second downtown for New York. What would you propose to allow for upper middle class forget about middle class or lower middle class, upper middle class mortal housing where the rich people don't want that in their backyard or in the backyard next to their backyard. How do we do we just get you know, within the New York metaphor, forget about three million dollar properties? How

do we get more non affordable affordable dollar properties? Eight d well not for all of us, but uh yeah, I think that when you talk about that level, you're talking about people who uh might nice area, really nice, I mean more than eight hundred thousand. Uh, they might resist having the riff raff come in. Well, that's a society issue. They don't want them. What can policy do

about that? Well, I think that we have to appeal to people's Uh, this is what we call the American dream that, uh, we respect people for what they are and what they make themselves. We're not all about making money. Uh. And you're the value of your house isn't everything, and we we Uh. This is also part of the American dream. It's tolerance of other people, it's other kinds of people. And this is really the the success story of this country.

You have to appeal to that and help people remember that. Yeah, two bedroom to bath square feet down the street from Laureate Schiller in New Haven, Connecticut, within reach of Joe's Pizza and two other good parlors. David Girl four dred thousand dollars. All right, all right, there's nothing. There's nothing like that within three zip codes where we're very true, Professor Sheller. You you write about inequality and inequality of income, and then you write about inequality of housing. This one

lead the other. In other words, when you look at what's the biggest detriment to somebody having economic mobility, how big a role is inequality of of housing? Yeah? Well, inequality of in terms of housing exacerbates the problem of other forms of inequality. The problem is that when you have a city developing with limited land, it's going to force people out right, and the higher bidders for the land in that city maybe to build a to tear down the house and build something. Uh. They they are

eventually have effect of pushing the others out. So you might have lived in a neighborhood all your life. You have a sense of identity with this neighborhood and neighbors and you know where the jobs are where you're used to know where they are. Um, and now all that changes and you kind of are pushed out by your inability to afford housing and that uh, that also is an inability to to have opportunities. You're no longer where

the action is. You've moved out to some area with other low income people and you're just too far away to make contact. So that that worsens an equality because it harms opportunity, It harms feebla's ability to develop themselves into something better. Well, let's do this. We are fortunate. We have Robert Schiller with us of Yale University and he is a Nobel Lord, the Laureate of Newport Beach.

Bill Gross is just published for Janice Anderson and Bill Gross is writing about the world of Robert Schiller, which is our orthodox monetary policy and some of our newer concepts. Let's come back with Bob Schiller and talk about the FED and not so much, you know, the parlor game, A We're gonna raise rates in December. Yes, no, maybe, whatever, But let's come back and talk to Bob Schiller about

what the new orthodox should be for our economics. This ten years on in the financial crisis, and again Bill Gross just publishing on on the linkage here of finance and investment into UH Schiller Economics. Professor Schiller where us from Yale the Laureate of Yale University UH Professor Schiller, Professor Gross of Janice Henderson publishes on our orthodox economics? Are we beyond the efficacy of the Taylor rule the efficacy of the Phillips curve? Have we moved on to

a new economics? From what Madigliani taught you at M I T a few years ago. That was more than a few years ago. Back then, under Franco Modigliani, we thought we had the whole economy reduced to a computer simulation. Did Yeah, that worked out well. Unfortunately, that model is not capable of predicting any recessions before they start to happen.

This is a fundamental problem that even the causes, the causes of the secular stagnation are still not I mean, maybe we have some hints why it's happening, but we don't know. We don't have a Uh. It's like we have a secular stagnation disease which is more effective in Europe than in the US. But it's there and we don't understand it. We don't know whether it's a virus or a bacteria or carcinoma. It's just not u not understood. That makes it makes it difficult for Druggy and others.

How political is the fund Reserve right now? Well, this is I don't know if I'm the right person to answer that. It's a time, it's a time when we are the most polarized society I've seen in my lifetime, and uh, maybe the most polarized since eighteen sixty or eighteen sixty five. Uh, And so you know, the the the job of the said chairman shouldn't be that politicized, but unfortunately it's it's a time just of tensions and anxieties and u uh at a time of mistrust. So

it puts anybody in a position like that. I I sympathize with Janet Yellen Um. What she's doing is very sensible, but I can see that it's open to criticism. Let me rip up the script here. In the last couple of minutes we have with you. We had, of course Ken Rogoff on the show a few minutes ago, and we were asking him during a break just about academic life in Cambridge these days, talking about what he's teaching,

how much he's teaching. You had a lecture that you delivered when you were a president of the of the American Economic Association on the importance of of humanities, and I know that's been exerted by the Booth School recently. Give us a process of that. Give us your your argument here that we should be investing more in stressing

the importance of humanities. Complimenting this out of economics. Well, economics, you know, in any academic field there's specialization, and economics has has proven itself to be valuable in its present form. But I think that we've lost something as well when we uh when we assume that people are strictly rational, that they have well defined preferences and are responding only to information. So the people in the other departments that

I normally wouldn't have any interaction with humanities. People have a different view of human nature. You know. It's not like we have a utility function and we know what we want. We don't know what we want, and we're affected by humans and by stories. So my presidential address

that the a e A was called narrative economics. It's because I think that, you know, it's not as if people have clear expectations, what will the interest rate be next year, what will the f o MC due next It's not what not the way most people think, uh, and they're they're kind of story or they want to know what is the story of my life and what's going on as in a way that has some emotional significance.

Bob Schuler, thank you so much. A couple of years back, Tom, I was in New Orleans on a reporting trip and we parked by the old Charity Hospital which had been boarded up, and made our way to the new University Medical Center, which is a beautiful new building several blocks away from where that old hospital stands, and I got a tour of the new space from the chief medical officer there, a guy named Dr Peter to Blue, if I remember the name correctly, and it really was an

amazing space decorated with Chihuli sculptures and a really radical sense of how you can take care of a lot of patients, particularly patients dealing with trauma. Emergency room that had a lot of pods. I think is he described a very innovative space. And I know that somebody who is partially responsible for the creation the building of that structure is the Mayor of the City of New Orleans, Mitch Lander, who joins us now on our phone lines.

Mayor Landra has been vociferous wighing in a lot about the healthcare debate here nationally, and I wonder, Mayor, if I could start by asking you what we could learn about healthcare from how it's played out here in recent years in the city of New Orleans. Well, thank first of all, thank you for recognizing that Hospitals of Beautiful. The gentleman's name is Dr pet who's one of the great heroes. He was on the ground after Katrina, saving a lot of people, and he's a great guy that

runs the trauma center, the emergency medical unit. You know what's interesting is this is this issue across the country of affordable characters played out in Louisiana, you know, Katrina hit And when we started rebuilding our healthcare delivery system, one of the things we had learned from our failures earlier on is that you can't provide preventative care and acute care in emergency room hospitals of public hospitals that have no money to eventually break the state and make

people less healthy. So one of the things we knew was we had to get on the front end of it. We and we created primary care clinics in the Metromolin area of New Orleans, where people who didn't have access to health care before now have access to preventative care. What used to happen was for working folks, they used to have to go to the emergency room and sit there to get the ear ache, and the kids taking care of get triage with the gunshot. Victims stayed at

the thirteen hours get fired and it was catastrophic. And so the important part was to make sure that you got on the front end and of the back end, you kept the cost down, you spread the risk. And unfortunately, what's happened in Washington and they seem to be stuck on on making the same mistake, which is not coming up with a bipartisan approach that is broad based at the country supports. There is an answer to this very

difficult question. And so I think on behalf of the U S Conference of Management, we're asking is for leading McConnell to step back for a minute, to go ahead and create a bipartisan working group, get some smart pyres, ipartisan groups, some governors, and then let's see if we can have this thing out. Get it right. Mats, you kill it to your senator, the doctor, doctor Cassidy, and in paragraph six of your latest missile to Mrs to Washington, you go into the economics of the ninth Ward of

your Louisiana, your New Orleans. Rather, the ninth Ward is the people that nobody's talking about in this debate. What does it mean for the people in the trenches at the Baptist Community Health Services Center of the ninth Ward of New Orleans, Hannah Pounds, Edward Lynn, the nurse, Robert Jemison, there in the trenches of our health care system? What what do what do they need from the politicians in

the fancy suits. Well, first, first, that's a great question First of all, I want to thank because he's really been trying hard, unlike some other senators to find some common ground. Hadn't been able to do it yet, but at least he has an open mind. One of the things at folks in Washington, miss is what their words mean when they hit the ground in a specific spot in an American city, in a real neighborhood, affecting a real person. So what you basically talked about it was

a clinic in the lower ninth ward. And of course we have a bunch of these where these individuals are not going to be able to get the kind of care that they need, which in some instances is going to cost them their job, it's going to cost them to lose their home, or are they going to get sick, And if they don't have the kind of care that they need, they could potentially die. So this isn't a political fight for people on the ground. This is a life of death decision about how they're going to have

a good quality of life. And you know the President said when he ran, I want better health care for more Americans for lower costs. That's what he said the goal was. And I don't think we're moving there right now, we're stuck in this. Are the Republicans going to pretend a bill? Are the Democrats gonna do it? What the mayors are saying is, look, get rid of all that that ideologically bent talk, and let's get down to tactics of how we're going to make sure that America can

be strong by being healthy. And the process that's being using Washington is not getting us there. So now Senator McConnell is in a position of saying, well, let's try to go ahead and go back to the original House bill, which is gonna make sure that thirty two million Americans lose healthcare. And if we don't do that, you know, let's go back to some place that's even worse than that. I think we've got to scrap it, start over again and find the answers to the things in the Affordable

Care Act that are broken. And every Democrat in America that serving knows that the issues with the Affordable Care Act, notwithstanding the fact that we have used that particular law to make sure other people are more healthy, so it's not perfect. It needs to be fixed. Let's figure out how to fix it. We can get this done. I was talking with John hick and Looper, the governor Colorado, last week, and we we were having a conversation about

the role that states are taking on here now. The federal government might be taking up a more backseat roles, the governor seat that as an opportunity to get together and do more on the issues of policy themselves. Do you feel that same way when it comes to the group of mayors that you're heading up now to. Mayors feel like they have a greater responsibility here to craft and and and put forward policy. Well, well, not only do we have a responsibility, were the ones that actually

do the work. You know, when you get down on the ground. Mayors are like the emergency room physicians in a war zone, where the guys that run the emergency medical services. So you were talking about Peter W's Hospital, Essentially that's trauma center. When something bad happens in the in the city, it's it's our vehicles and you know, pick the folks up, bring them to the emergency room. All of our first responders are engaged in it. So

we're the ones that are actually doing the work. And we don't think that Congress ought to be passing any major piece of legislation without the mayors of the major American cities and the small cities in partnership with the governors, given them our view about what their words mean when they actually hit the grounds. And this is we don't

govern in theory, we don't govern in philosophy. We govern in real time and in reality, and we don't really have a whole lot of time for ideologically meant debates. And so that's why it's important for us to be on the table so we can tell our senators exactly what it is that they're talking about means when it hits the streets. You check your blood pressure? How many how many nights a week do you eat at Charlie's Steakhouse. Charlie steakhous is great killer. Don't tell my doctor said

fruit in the ring or leave it there. I love that. Rich Landry, the President of the Conference of Mayor's, joining us here on our phone lines. Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg Savannas podcast. Subscribe and listen to interviews on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, or whichever podcast platform you prefer. I'm on Twitter at Tom Keene. David Gura, Is that David Gura? Before the podcast? You can always catch us worldwide. I'm Bloomberg Radio, brought you by Bank of America Mery Lynch.

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