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This is the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. I'm Jonathan Ferrow, along with Lisa Bromwitz and Amerie Hordern. Join us each day for insight from the best in markets, economics, and geopolitics from our global headquarters in New York City. We are live on Bloomberg Television weekday mornings from six to nine am Eastern. Subscribe to the podcast on Apple, Spotify or anywhere else you listen, and as always on the Bloomberg Terminal and the Bloomberg Business app. Stockslower as doubtscrow over
the credit house of US regional banks. Lisa is standing by with a key guest. Hey Lisa, Hey John, thanks so much.
I am here with Christian Saving, the CEO of Deutsche Bank. And before we get started, I want to say we booked this weeks ago. This was not necessarily booked to talk about the credit issues that are emerging to stave off any concerns that might be percolating out. But I do want to start there this idea that this morning we're all focused on.
What are we missing?
Have things gotten too.
Frauthy and have there been some issues of fraud or easy financing conditions. Do you see that anywhere.
In your book, morning, Liza, I know, actually not. I mean there's a lot of volatility in the market. We have seen that actually over the last weeks and months. Whenever something is supposed to be the market is reacting. In our books, I can tell you no, there is
no deterioration we have. Actually, we are very confident with our credit portfolio and that across the world, whether it's in Germany, whether it's in Europe, whether it's in the US, in the different asset classes corporate bank, private bank, and in this regard, I think the market is reacting quite heavily, but I think you always have to see it over the long term, and so far, to be honest, I see no credit.
Deterioration long term.
Your shares are up more than eighty percent so far this year, so a couple percent here there is sort of you know, Okay, it's tough, but we can manage through it. Just wondering though, whether it's indicative of people's mood that people are looking for a reason to sell because they're getting nervous about how good things are getting and how.
Far valuations have gone.
Do you see that with any executives and the confidence that you're hearing from them in terms of what they're seeking to do or how much they're extending to planning to expand.
No, actually confidence is quite good.
I mean, there's obviously always the risk in case in case a recession would come, then obviously the confidence would go down. You would also see then a situation in the credititfolio. But this is not the topic at all. Also, in the whole week here in Washington, we haven't discussed the topic of recession at all. People are seeing growth, they're seeing employment. We talk a lot about what is happening in Germany and in Europe and how we can
actually grow competitiveness and the economic output. So therefore I wouldn't say that people are concerned. Of course, the geopolitical uncertainties still discussions. Other other issues are also dominating, dominating the discussions, But I wouldn't say that there is a concern of the executives. We are watching the market, but there is nothing out where I would say people are concerned of a deterioration given the fact.
That there are so many uncertainties still outstanding. Are you surprised by how much optimism you've been hearing.
Yes, because we have talked for the last two years, given all the instabilities and uncertainties, when when is actually a potential down downturn in the market's coming. But again, there is a lot of liquidity in the market people. We have seen it, for instance in the in the second quarter when there was a stimulus program in Germany, how much liquidity came to Europe. And you see that
people really want to deploy their money. And therefore, I think you always have to see if there is a slight decrease in market prices, liquidity immediately comes in again. And therefore I'm still optimistic actually that we are not talking about an overvaluation.
We have some stretch valuations.
No doubt, but I wouldn't say that the whole market is overvalued.
Let's talk about Germany and European banks in general have been on a tear this year, and it's been driven by this idea that maybe there will be deregulation and maybe there will be actual fiscal spending to support the region. Are you seeing any actual tangible signs of deregulation that you think could unleash, whether it's bank mergers, whether it's just more dynamism in the European banking sector.
Well, at least we have discussions.
I mean, look, there are also some tangible items like the delay in the implementation of fr to be we have also in certain national buffers. When it comes to capital buffers, we have seen some movements of the national regulators, but also of the ECB. I think we have a constructive discussion with the ECB. We are talking about that we as European banks, are demanding a level playing field.
We see the developments here in the US, we see developments in the UK, and therefore I think there are constructive discussions with our regulators, so there.
Is some movement.
Nevertheless, I think it's not only about regulation. I think the most important is how can we ensure that Europe of all, but also Germany is actually increasing the competitiveness and growth, and therefore we need to do more on the structural reform saute, which goes way beyond bank regulations.
That is actually the topic which we need to push for, because at the end of the day, regulation is important, we need a level playing field, but the most important is the underlying growth and therefore we need structural reforms in Europe is.
That friscal spending.
Are you saying that you hope that they increase it more and that you're already seeing stimulative effects from that?
I suppose I personally think that the debt break alignment and adjustments which we have seen in Germany was the right step to do. But only doing this is not the right thing. Just increasing debt is not the right thing. What you need to do is in parallel work on structural reforms that it makes sense for corporate's private individuals
to invest. And that has all about to do with tackling the problem of energy prices in Germany, reducing bureaucracy, making sure that we are doing bigger investments into infrastructure, that the approvals for new investments are not taking that long as it did before.
All that needs to be done.
So aligning or just growing by a stimulus program will.
Not be sufficient.
We need imperilel structural reforms, and there I can see that actually the German government is taking the first step.
So what about businesses?
How much are businesses in Germany moving away from places like China in terms of sources of business? How much are you seeing those fissures just in the companies that you work with.
Well, it's the result already of the COVID. I think after COVID people really thought far more about diversification. We can see that German corporates, European corporates are very active in diversifying their supply chains, their production chains, and are also trying to invest more globally and less concentrated. You can also see actually that business are confident actually to
really reinvest in Germany. You may have heard about the initiative which is running in Germany, the Made for Germany initiative, where more than one hundred corporates are actually committed to invest over seven hundred billion euros in Germany over the next three years. That shows actually that there is confidence in the business and at the same time that corporates are really redistributing their supply chains.
Are you seeing any clients trying to shift away from dollar exposure right now?
Look, there was clearly a trend in Q two about reallocation. But I wouldn't join the core of saying well, that is the end of the US dollar as the reserve current.
The US dollar will be the reserve currency.
But I think that a lot of investors actually are trying to reallocate, and in particular with what happened in the second quarter in Germany but also in Europe, you could see a shift to Europe and that's actually the momentum which we need to retain and where we need to build on.
And this move away from the dollar has been largely in derivative's markets. I mean, how much has that just been on fire this year in terms of hedging any exposure to the dollar, not necessarily getting out of dollar denominated assets.
Well, I think it's both.
It's it's not only in the derivative market can we really have seen rear flows And therefore it has been it has been a trend in Q two, it's a little bit reversing in Q three. And therefore it is so important in particular for Europe that they really continue.
With structural reforms.
If this is not going through, if we are not continued with structural reforms, then obviously grows and therefore so the inflow in European assets will not further increase.
And is that just whether there will be reforms or not. How does that effect where you want your footprint to be dominant?
Right?
Do you want to be more in Germany. Do you want to be more in the United States? Do you want to expand more in one place or another based on your faith, hope, et cetera, that there will be reform in Europe versus what actually is happening elsewhere.
Look, Liza, for me, it is that from a bank's point of view, the most important is to be diversified, and we as Loutsche Bank, have taking a clear decision to be a global bank and to make sure that we are not too concentrated in any one of the regions.
Of course, when you.
Have your home market in Germany with forty percent of the revenues, you have a great interest that this country is growing, that you have the right structural reforms, that fiscal stimulus is kicking in.
But at the same time, despite.
All the talks about the end of globalization, globalization will not end. Globalization will be different going forward, but that needs actually global banks with local nohow and that is actually where we are focusing from a Deutsche Bank point of view, strong home market, but being an international player, because what we see from our clients, they would like to have a bank with an international exposure, with an international expertise, and that with the global network, and that's
exactly what we want to be. So diversified and a global setup is I think the key to success.
Are you interested in any acquisitions or is this going to be a very organic process going forward?
So very organic process. Look, I'm very happy with the development which we have taken. You were just talking about our share price. I think overall the bank has done very well over the last three four years. The turnaround has been completed, and now it's really bringing the bank from a ten percent hour to eat to the next stage. All leavers for that are leavers which are sort of say, within our own hands.
It's about a.
Better capital management, it's about focus growth, it's further about investing into technology to get further efficiencies out that is in our hands.
And as long as if.
I have the chance to further increase my return on equity with sort of.
Say homework, that is always the preferred option.
So not interested in any local banks that are nearby that you might bring out here.
As I said again, if you can focus on yourself, if you can improve your return on equity by applying this homework, honestly, it's always the first option.
There's also a big question here about artificial intelligence and how much it's going to alter the size of the staff, the way of doing business going forward. Have you seen any material changes or advantages from using and adopting artificial intelligence of late that have really materially improved profitability.
Or decreased staff.
Well, we have many use cases and you can apply that across the bank. And the interesting part is it actually it actually applies to revenue SI, customer satisfaction, interaction risk clients. It applies to efficiency and cost management, and also it applies to something which is very important for banks, control and regulatory compliance. And in each of these three areas we have seen great use cases. If you think about also our research department, they started actually applying AI.
If you think about the precision of research reports, with the help of AI got far better. Of course, that has an impact in terms of the speed and turnaround of research reports. Same actually in other areas when you think about operations, the way we can apply AI. Now, the really important thing is now that we have a structural approach to all these use cases and that we have a clear priority where do we prioritize it at first?
Because you can imagine that everybody in this bank wants to apply now, AI, we need to have a clear priority of investments. But I think it will be a game changer going forward and it will be one of the key leavers how to increase profitability of banks.
Stay with us more Bloomberg Surveillance coming up after this, Let's turn to private equity. The Consortium Bank Electronic Arts is set to add more than a dozen banks to its underwriting group after JP Morgan put up twenty billion dollars of debt to bankroll the leverage buyout. The banks are inline to share roughly five hundred million dollars in fees for arranging the financinc joining us. Now, a man who knows something about a leverage buyout, Steve Paluk of
Being Capital. Steve's good to see it, so it could be a good morning. Let's reflect on your time. The largest leverage buyo ever before this one was HCA back in two thousand and sixty thousand and seven. There are you were right there in the middle of it. Despite that moment, and how it compares to what we're seeing play out now.
Well, it's really interesting.
I think that buyout was five billion equity and twenty seven billion dollars debt. This buyout is much more equity, you know, kind of thirty billion of equity and twenty five twenty billion, may thirty five billion of equity. So the markets have changed to that extent that you can't leverage you much. But the EBA does a little less very quality sponsor, and JP Morgan is a very quality bank.
So they did the deal because of the great growth in gaming and media and entertainment, and I think is a very solid company.
You did the tremendously well out of HCA. It needs to be very very clear about that. But the timing of it is curious. It came right at the peak of credit and this is now too. Is that anything to be concerned about?
You know, I'm less concerned about credit right now in terms of the private credit markets because the private letters actually.
Are very good.
The banks have been very good JP Morgan, especially Bank of America, well run, well capitalized banks.
And private credit is different.
Than credit from banks because if it does go bad, you only write off the equity from people that put the equity in. It doesn't have a systemic multiplier effect. So I'm less concerned about private credit. What one more concerned about is the size of the national debt and how much interest we're spending on the national debt. It's really interesting if you go back to when I got out of business school, there was a huge sturm and
drawing about the national debt passing one trillion. That's in nineteen eighty two, So it took two hundred and fifty years to have one trillion of national debt. In the last forty years, we now have thirty seven trillion.
Which is more than the GDPGB.
It's about thirty trillion, So that concerns me more in terms of the impact of the dollar interest rates. Our interest from the government now is one of the highest expenditures. It's right up there with defense and healthcare. So that concerns me more than private credit.
I Steve, I could probably find you people who a consent back in the eighties two, and then in the two thousands, and as we went through ten trillion, twenty trillion and kept going high, they were concerned all the way up. Unfortunately, I say this moment.
Different, Well, I think I don't know if it is different, But in situations like this, it's always okay till it isn't okay. So you get used to you pass a trillion. Ever, Dirkson had a board up that was counting it up at that time, and it passed a trillion, there was a huge outcry. Now it's ten trillion, then twenty trillion,
then thirty trillion. But at some point you've got to have some long term plan to pay that money back and get that deficit down because it's eating up huge amounts of the government budget.
And as as as the interest rates roll.
Over, you know, a lot of that is still financing the old really low interest rates. They're going to have to refinance it at five percent, you know, you know, four and a half percent, and then the number goes up again.
Well, when you see what's going on Washington, I want to go back to your EA deal. It's not just the size and scope that got a ton of people's attention. There's concern in Washington given some of the players involved. Have you heard from politicians about that.
I don't think there's been a lot of pushback on that and the deal. I think we'll be controlled by silver Lake, which is an American, you know, fantastic private equity company, but.
With the Saudi PIF being involved, some people think Jared Kushner was brought in just to get the check government seal of approval.
You know, again, I think silver Lake's a fantastic firm and they're leading the charge there and so I think there's really going to be no concern because they'll be calling the shots on the deal.
And say, if we started this conversation by comparing this dale ci in I was six. I seven. Have the pose off capits have changed in the last twenty years.
Yeah? Absolutely.
You know, when I started out in the industry, there was only three or four firms doing this I think in general, and it was mostly USA. Now it's global. The fund sizes are up probably twenty times from when I started. And also you have sovereigns and bid againstucial players partnering with private equity, so the dry powder is huge.
Are there are enough opportunities to go around?
You know?
You know I got asked that question in nineteen eighty nine again, and I feel like a broken record. Private equity, I think is here to stay. The model has really evolved, so it really is huge value added to to kind of transform companies, make them better, globalize them, build new products, and in an environment where you don't have to worry
about quart of learning. So the model is a very good model, and it's only expanded, it's only gotten bigger, and I think it'll meet There will be plenty of opportunit these for these folks to invest money.
Well, let's talk about the opportunities now for you and how your sport franchise is are going. Starting with Atlanta. Steve walked into the room with some Atlanta sneakers with the sponsor New Balance. On the relationship between you and New balants, can you just debscribe what that's like at the moment?
Fantastic.
A New Balance is a is kind of a fighting brand growing taking a lot of share. They really like the Atalanta story because we have the same values. You know, we're kind of a fighting brand against your the wanted AC one team that you support, and so it's kind of a matchmate and having the New Balance is very excited about it. We're excited about it. We've just named our stadium New Balance Arena. I think it's the first
arena that New Balance is named. And we're very proud to be associated with New Balance as a family company. You know, the Package Group is a family company in the precossis in Italy, your family companies, so the three families have come together and hopefully take to the next level.
You've done a tremendous job with the same in a franchise. Can you just describe the opportunities now that exist in the sports world at a time when some people are pushing back against funny wish.
Well, no question valuations or record levels. Why is that is because sports is now the only thing left that aggregates huge audiences globally.
And there's been a technology change where.
When I lived in Holland and in the nineteen seventies, you would only get sports scores three days later from an international tribune and you could watch anything. Now you can watch any team globally. So fans are counted in the billions instead of the tens of thousands where they used to be thirty years ago. So I think sports still has upside because advertisers, you don't want to reach the globe and that's the way to do it.
As you look at the sports world and it's pretty broad. Where do you see the best opportunity right now? Because your name's been linked to a team in the WNBA, I know you wanted to bring a team up to Boston. Is that where you're looking stale or is it outsewere Well, we're.
Looking at many opportunities. I think the WNBA is a great opportunity. Women's sports and general women's soccer in the USA and globally is growing.
The NFL is the market proper.
I think they've had record ratings and record advertising on the NFL. So again, I think sports as a category is really a growth asset, and as you have this battle between old media and new media, it's ex extential for them and they're battling over these properties that get all the eyeballs in.
So I think that bodes well for all the leagues.
John mentioned the WA Connecticut team. Do you think that there potentially could be a future for you and that team.
That's something clear.
We've kind of stood down for now and we're going to abide by whatever the NBA wants to do with the team. I think it's very exciting. The ratings are huge for WNBA, and I think it's great that all Americans are following that sport now and it's going to it's going to really take off, and the NBA has done a great job.
With that You've done a great job, Stafe. It's always going to catch up with you.
What a career.
It's those you have in the best of times now.
You know, I've been very fortunate, you know, coming my grandfather came from Italy on a boat with one suitcase and worked in a shoe factory here in New York and the Bronx for eight dollars a week. So I would say America is a great place coming from that. And I've loved the homecoming, coming back to Italy with Atalanta. I get off the plane and I love it because everyone looks like me.
There.
Stay with us. More Bloomberg surveillance coming up after this. The ten year below four percent at three ninety nine, Steve schuttev Missua right in the following. This is the minimum level of rates you would expect if the Fed were credible in its inflation target. At four percent, the yield on the tenure is fully priced for an economy with little to no inflation risk. Steve joined us now
for more. Steve, goodmnic good morning. Do you think we should be priced for an economy with little to no inflation risk?
No, I don't.
I think there is more inflation risk in the system than the markets are currently pricing in. But I think the markets are pricing in the degree of excess liquidity that's still there. Even though we're seeing some you know, chinks in the armor in terms of the quantitative approach here and what's happening in terms of some of the reverse repo areas, there's still an enormous amount of liquidity.
And you see the way it trade.
The market traded this week, especially you know, earlier in the week and the credit story when we're worried about banks initially, and then we saw the Goldman issue come out and the market was substantially over subscribed for that issue. While we're worried about banks, and so I think there's still an enormous amount of liquidity, and I think that's holding down the long end of the curve. Plus there's the global deflation story that's holding down the long end of the curve as well.
When you see inflation risk, do you mean tariffs or are you seeing inflation in other parts?
Well, I mean we've got to fed a reserve that wants to maintain full employment, and we have an economy where we are seeing inflation without much tariff running at well above its target, running closer to three percent, So you would sit there and say, okay, then there is inflation risk in there that's not being priced in. Now you could say the tenure is expecting on average the FED to be credible over a ten year period of time.
True.
However, we have been above two percent for four plus years, so there starts to be a window there where this is.
A fully priced market.
And I think that's part of the reason why we had this rally yesterday afternoon and then we've pulled back towards that four percent level, because it is a critical psychological level, and it's also a critical mathematical level because it's a two percent inflation rate.
Why is it critical psychological.
Level Because it's an environment in which, when you look at most people who've been in the marketplace, if you break through four percent, you're usually looking at a substantial move below that because something has gone wrong in the system. And that's why you had so much of a response to yesterday's announcements by Zion and so forth in terms of the way the market's knee jerk response took place
on that. And now we're starting to see the pullback as we begin to realize it's more idiosyncratic than it is systemic.
And we've bounced back big time. The broader recory market has too. We'll be tracking that. I want to stay on course for the federal reservance downtrack with you. This FED and the recent decisions, and the next one too is anchored to a massive step down at payrolls. What do you think they should be anchoring these decisions too.
I think they should be setting it up as an insurance policy standpoint, and I think they should be setting it up in an environment in which they want to make sure that they are achieving still full employment. That's what they say their target is. And I think if you wind up getting an unemployment rate movement that goes against their need to cut interest rates, that I think they should pause.
So this is a risk management decision, correct, That's kind of what they're doing, isn't it. How much daylight is there between you and what they're doing right now?
There's not a lot.
I mean, after the payroll employment numbers came out in August, we were I was on this call and we talked about the fact that they might as well just do three September, October and December, and it looks as if that's what we're going to get out of it, and that will.
Pull us back into from my.
Calculations, a margin least stimulative monetary policy standpoint for the market. They still have to get to three percent to be neutral. For me, four percent is neutral. So if we get to that level of three and three quarters or so on the tenure note, then we're into a stimulative territory.
If they're biases to the labor market, yes, what do they do with how the labor market report?
Well, I mean, as the chairman indicated the other day, they have the ADP numbers, They could look at some of the weekly claims numbers, they can look at some of the continuing claims numbers. They can do some work and adding those things up and making those kind of assessments. And I think you basically have to take onto consideration that there's a lot of uncertainty.
Built into this situation.
If you look at the.
Wall of worry.
I mean, we've got a government shutdown, we've got the tariff situation, we've got the Chinese trade war negotiations.
In terms of our CALP call of that or not.
We've got the Middle East hostilities, We've got the Ukrainian hostilities, We've got a government shutdown that doesn't look as if it's going away. We have the upcoming question as to whether or not of the TERRORIFFTSHO are legal or nothing.
So why why not go on pause then for October and recalibrate for the end of the year.
I think you want to make sure if there is something wrong, you get it in in October so that you make sure there's a good fourth quarter of the year.
Steve, I've got no idea what happens in man beyond because we don't know what the leadership of the Federal Reserve looks like. But do you think markets might be underappreciating the potential for a pause from the new year up to May?
Oh?
I think the market definitely is underestimating the potential not to get to three percent.
Yes, stay with us. More Bloomberg surveillance coming up after this. Let's stick with the data. CPI could be the only government print the Fed gets ahead of the rate decision later on this month. Mark Hayfley of UPS, writing with the Fed on track to continue its rate cutting cycle, we believe the case for quality fixed income as a source of fullier resilience remained strong. Mark John, Just now for more, Mike, welcome back, sir. Let's just talk about
that income. Over the last week or so, they yield is just slipping away from us. Mark, what do you think is driving that story?
Well, I mean it's a lot of factors. I think First, we do have some you know, some concerns out there about the labor market and other things. But you know, we've got a FED that's going to cut. And then I do think this QT story is also important to this because you know, that was a huge factor perhaps in creating some of those term premiums. So that side of it seems to be be coming together.
S and P five hundred target for you and a team midyear next year seventy three hundred, Mark, What needs to go right to get us from where we are to get us there?
Yeah? Well, first, anybody who's in the equity market does have a call on AI, whether they like it or not. And we think that the cap can continue into next year. That's one thing. Second, again, don't fight the FED. Third, the earnings are looking good. And fourth, the one big beautiful bill is going to start to add some stimulus as we get into next year. So that's that looks like a positive backdrop to.
Us, even you're constructive on AI. Do you have any sort of concerns about the vendor financing that's happening within this space?
Well, you know, twenty six years ago I sat down and was writing to clients about the dot com bubble, and so writing this month was you know, brought back some memory. So yes, you know, I think that I remember, you know, some of the circular financing of the dot com very well. And you know, I think that it's still early stages. Obviously, you know, it's getting somebody's concerned enough that it's getting disclosed, and it's definitely something to watch.
We just have to see where it goes from here.
Mark, when it comes to what we had this morning, which was the bank sector under pressure given the concerns of these bankruptcies and credit qualities, do you think that this could potentially be a longer term problem within this space and that can affect and have contagion across the border market.
On the banks.
On the banks, we're you know, we're looking at the delinquency rates. They look like they're okay so far, and so we're still thinking this is kind of a one off and the you know, the globally significant banks, the large banks are doing very well.
It's Altmark that we finished the week talking about these issues and I get them, they're import them. We should track them on a week when we've just had blowout numbers from the big banks on Wall Street. Mark, do you see this market as a bit of a market of contradictions at the moment?
Well, you know, I love talking to you on a Friday because you're looking back on the week with this sense of wonder, almost awe that like all the stuff that has happened, And so I agree with you. I mean, we've had a heck of a run in the market. We don't have a lot of data right now, you know,
economic data, and so every data point is important. But I think as some of the you know, as you highlighted, you have to look at everything that's going on from what the President is saying to you know, what the Fed is saying, to what foreign leaders are saying to you know, what you're hearing from companies and put it all together in the right matrix.
The good news is Mark that in bad times bonds are working. And I guess the good news for gold is that gold works when the market's down and gold works when the market's up. This is just a relentless rally market. We're on a ninth straight week of gains, a run we haven't seen since twenty twenty. This week alone, we're up by close to eight percent. I think seven point five percent is the number of my Bloomberg terminal Right now, Mark, can we just finish that the relationship
ship between gold and risk. We were touching on this when we taught last time. How are you reading these moves in gold? What's it all about?
Well? I think that part of it is feers about kind of the dollar and and this this you know, and the concerns about debt. But a large part of it is the weaponization of the dollar after the Russian invasion of Ukraine, the use of sanctions and central banks saying, hey, you know, how else can we function that we're not necessarily beholden to the dollar system. And we continue to see that happening. Obviously we've seen speculatory trades and and
retail come in on top of those things. But I think this this central bank component is key to the story. And then of course underpinning this whole rally is the continued fiscal spending, deficit spending that that goes on, and you know it's don't fight the Fed, but also don't fight that tide of money that is stimulating economies around the world.
That's an interesting component of this markt And please you mentioned the central bank diversification of the back of what happened with Russia, because that's been a source a massive tail went for this story. A non yielding assets perform so well in an otherwise high interest rate environment. Marcus, we start to reduce interest rates to the federal reserve, is that just more fuel for the next leg of the trade And what kind of numbers are you and the team considering?
Yeah, it normally would be, but I think that given this run, you know, from here, we're a little cautious and thinking more of gold as a hedge against potential risks that pop up, rather than saying, hey, this is a great to great time to pile in for kind of speculative gains or trading gains.
This is the Bloomberg Sevendents podcast bringing you the best in markets economics. Anngio politics. You can watch the show live on Bloomberg TV weekday mornings from six am to nine am Eastern, to the podcast on Apple, Spotify, or anywhere else you listen, and as always, on the Bloomberg Terminal and the Bloomberg Business app.
Mm hmm