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This is the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. I'm Jonathan Ferrow, along with Lisa Bromwitz and am Marie Hortern. Join us each day for insight from the best in markets, economics, and geopolitics from our global headquarters in New York City. We are live on Bloomberg Television weekday mornings from six to nine am Eastern. Subscribe to the podcast on Apple, Spotify or anywhere else you listen, and as always on the Bloomberg Terminal and the Bloomberg Business app.
Day joins us now, O day. Wonderful to see you. Love having you in the studio.
Can you talk about just how much in the crystal ball discussions that we've been having about artificial intelligence, why you think the price action shows we're just not bullish enough?
Well, I think the market tells us that, right with the reaction to the news. The fact that the stock is up ten percent on the day tells you it was a positive surprise just by definition and so and it was. I mean it's super impressive, right, I mean you have to admit a tripling of revenue and a sevenfold,
sevenfold increase in profits year over year. I mean that is that that is just you know, it's unheard of, and so you have a ten percent move and you don't have the rest of the market responding, as was discussed just a minute or so ago. But to us, what we're believers, right, we are believers that every company, every government in the world is going to have to participate in the AI age and it's either you participate
or you lose. And it's that simple. And there's this concept which we believe in, which is called sovereign AI as an example, which basically states that every country is going to want its own AI. So you're just talking about just a massive global explosion of demand and you're seeing that with the video.
Although you're seeing it with Nvidia. They're the winner, and it's a.
Question of can they basically rise all boats or is it going to be at video game and party and only in videos, game and party as they potentially take share from AMD, from Intel, from a lot of other companies that otherwise might be getting some of these dollars.
Look, we're believers in what we call the pick and shovel thesis of investing in this. Right, we want to be in the digital pick and shovel and for that that means for us rather semiconductors, okay, because they're needed for the whole process. They're the winners of this to your point, and whether you know EX company versus Y company is a different story. To us, it's quite simple. As an investor, we want to be in the pick
and shovel. So in the pick and shovel in the digital age is the semiconductor space, and then the pick and shovel in the physical space is the miners. Because what's really interesting, and you touched on it with commodities earlier, what's really interesting is you're fusing the digital in physical worlds through the power demands for the data center buildouts. And again I mean I think the CEO of the video is a guy you have to pay attention to.
He is at the forefront of this. He's like evon one. Musk was a couple of years ago with evs right. He was on the front end of it, and so he was seeing what was coming and Musk was right. Okay, So now you follow the CEO of Navidia and he's talking about the factories of the future. He's talking about the data centers being the modern factories of our world as we move forward, and they need power. So I'll just give you an example. You know, natural gas UNNG
up forty percent in the last month. Before that, it was copper copper because you need copper for the electric electrification in the power generation, which again is going to be global, every country, every region. So it really feeds into our tripolar world. Pieces of regional deepening and regional integration in Asia, Europe, and the Americas. And you see it. The Europeans are building out AI, the Chinese are building
out AI, the Americans are building out AI. Everybody has to have it, and they have to have it now. And then the last point I would make is that, and I'm a believer in this idea, is that this is going to come much faster. So I respect Ian earlier and he was saying with AI, he's not sure how it's going to come through. My feeling is that the infrastructure for AI has already been built out right.
Well, can I just defend the in for a moment, because part of his thesis was.
Nothing but silence.
I mean, come on, John, Yeah, exactly, I'll take the combative view. If it's not here, I'll try. My son isn't keeping up with it, but my combativeness I'm trying to.
Okay, No, I'm okay, okay.
So Ian's argument is basically that it's not going to be adopted as soon, specifically with companies, because if you think about the Internet boom, you know, everyone and their mother could simply sign up to the Worldwide Web, get their own website, and then there you go, you take off. Integrating AI is a much more complicated and longer process.
Okay. The pushback is that it took a decade or more for the Internet to be built by because every piece had to be created from the start. The point of the AI age is that it's a layering on. The infrastructure is already built out, and so it's going to accelerate much much more quickly. So I'm in the I'm in the it's going to accelerate much more quickly. Camp Ian can be in the other camp. We see
how it plays out. And I go back to the idea that every company is going to have to participate in this, every country is going to have to participate this, and it's and it's a race, and so the money that's being put into this and again talked about fiscal earlier a little bit. Interest rates, governments and companies are
going to spend money on this. Companies are cash rich, governments are spending The G seven just came out with their outlook or the IMF for fiscal for the next through twenty twenty nine, no change, So there is no there's no community for significant fiscal cutting. And you have the companies also spending. So there's again the video is a perfect example. It increased its cap X, it raised
its civit end, it's got a stock splitch. So there's all these things that are happening because they're making so much money. They made fifteen billion dollars in a quarter.
Well, you had Greenspan, for example, back in the nineties early on. It's talking about the productivity boost, the paradigm shift basically from the Internet age. Do central bankers this time around, are they aware of the potential changes to the macro landscape that you're talking about and they need to start thinking about policy potentially differently because of that.
Yeah, that's an excellent question. I mean, we're believers and what we call the global macro blue sky outlook. So twenty twenty three to twenty twenty seven, we see a very bullish outcome, and this what we just talked about underpins that because it's a We wrote a piece a couple of weeks ago called the Age of Investment. We are in an age of investment. So twenty ten to twenty twenty was monetary policy driven central bankers rule the world.
Now we're in the space where fiscal policymakers are going to rule the world. And again it's a recognition that we need sovereign ai we need to pay for it. We need climate mitigation, we need to pay for it. We need defense spending, we need to pay for it. And so all these things are driving, as I say, we believe in age of investment, which is going to reinforce that productivity gain, which is also being fueled by a fact that we're in a shrinkage of the global workforce.
So demographically, we're in a whole new world which we think is going to continue to drive automation, drive robotics, and drive the regionalization of things so that you have a whole reshaping of the supply chain, which is happening in Asia right now with China. I mean, China is basically carving out Southeast Asia, which is the fastest growing part of the world, and they're going to dominate that space.
And just look at what they're doing with EVS in Thailand and Vietnam, etc. They're setting up a regional production supply chain for evs and they're going to own that space.
Well, I want to ask you about China because so much of your thesis, basically the basis is that China still integrated with the West. What happens if it's not.
I don't believe that that's going to happen.
If people actually think we would see what we saw with Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Within a weekend, you had companies pulling out their central bank assets locked.
Yeah, well, I think we've made a queer to China that we want to control their ability to rise on the tech stack. And so they're now coming back to us and saying fine, And I think that's an opportunity right what we call our two tech stack thesis, right where the Chinese companies are going to dominate China tech sack, the American company is going to dominate the American tech stack. That's fine. Investors have cotton down to the latter. They
haven't figured out about the former. Right, so you have China tech selling at a massive discount to US tech, even though the China tech space is twice as large, growing twice as fast. And so for US, we want to own the China tech space because that's where the opportunity is. And now you're seeing the same thing with evs, right, China does not want to. China is integrated into the global trade patterns. Right. They have massive trade surplus and
massive exports. They cannot afford to be cut out of the global trade flows. And so you're seeing how you're seeing that in the reaction we believe to Biden's announcement last week about one hundred percent tariffs on evs. That's huge, But yet there's been no nothing from the Chinese because they know they need to keep the Europeans on.
Well, they signaled they're going to potentially.
Have tax and they want to do it on the European side. They need to keep the Europeans on side. The Americans, it's kind of already a done deal. So they're threatening the Europeans with big tariffs on internal combustion engine European exports into China, and that's a massive market for the Europeans, and that's where the game is being played. But they are I believe China will continue in the economy, but the tech stack is being divided up and being closed off on both sides.
J Ploski of TPW Advisory Tripolar World Advisory joining us now, I'm so pleased to say nations wide, nationwide. Kathy Bustansik and Alberto Galo of Andromeda Capital Management. Kathy, what do you make of yesterday's data in particular?
I really want to start with that and how.
Much that has sort of forward looking in dictator indications of goods prices starting to really, I don't know, go up, reaccelerate.
Yeah, good morning, Lisa, happy to be with you.
Yeah, I think you know.
That's you know, something that's quite interesting because goods prices, as you know, have really been the positive factor here in the inflation story and have actually the latest data sort of suggested when you look at CPI that is that we had further deflationary pressures. If that starts to temper or we see some uplift, that could really, you know,
change the story here. Good gasoline prices obviously headline inflation very sensitive to that, and the reason that again matters, is that we still have this ongoing stickiness in the service side of the economy, whether it's core services or also looking at rental.
Inflation and kayathy. This is the reason why people are talking about whether.
There is some sort of restrictiveness currently in the system. Alberto, you wrote a fascinating note about this, just how restrictive FED policy actually is and how it's sort of, I don't know, a mirage that they're using front end of the yield curve to try to seem like they're restrictive, but they're really not so much. Please explain, because to me, this is fascinating at a time where people are pushing back their expectations of a rate cut.
Good morning, Lisa.
Essentially, what we're talking about is the FED trying to perform a magic trick.
They have focused the audience attention.
On the front end rate, and you know, they've raised front end rates by five hundred basis points.
But on the other hand, what they're doing.
Is to reduce in the pace of tapering, and they've reduced it by more than expected. So the FED balance sheet is still you know, very large, and it hasn't really fallen since the since the peak. At the same time, there's also a lot of fiscal and there's indirect quy. For example, the Bonk term funding program has allowed banks to fund cheaply to buy treasuries, so you know, they're hiking with one hand, they are not hiking with the other.
The result is that there is a record loose financial conditions. So we definitely don't see any any restrict restrictiveness in financial conditions right now unless you are you're a weak household and you're funding with credit cards or auto loans, so you're depending on the front end rate. But for large firms, for whoever funds in the bond market or long term mortgage borrowers, funding conditions are still pretty good.
And that means persistent inflation. It means that there's rates polatility, and we are a lot more worried about reacceleration in the economy or persistent inflation, you know, hurting the rates market, rather than the recession that you know, every economist has been thinking about for the past three years.
Well, Berta, we got a first call from Goldman Sachs this morning saying that they now expect to cut to be in September. Initially they were talking about. Most recently they were talking about July. What do you view in terms of the timeline, given what you're saying about the policy not being so restrictive.
I think here the trade is for next year. Yes, we might have one cut this year. Our forecus is still for zero, but the realities there's still a lot of cuts that are priced in for twenty twenty five, and I think that is wrong, especially with the outlook.
That we have for elections.
You know, we're going to have a lot of physical stimulus next year, regardless of who wins. But you know there are some scenarios where there's even more physical stimulus then the CBO is expecting for next year. So we have persistent fiscal and you know, the eighty plus basis points cuts that we are seeing in the market for next year are not going to happen in our view. So yes, we might have a cut, but it's going to look like a policy.
Error in our view.
And you know, even other central banks are starting to change the narrative.
So we need to learn to live. We'd hire for.
Longer, and there's a lot of us at a location that has been centered around the expectation of lower rates, and that's going to have to reprice.
Kathy, I know you also think cuts could be delayed in a certain scenario till twenty twenty five. But Alberta there is talking about potentially the fiscal impulse we'll also get in twenty twenty five. How much harder is that going to make the FED even to cut next year?
Yeah, you know, I'm not so sure we get a lot of physical stimus next year. Certainly if we do, then that would delay, you know, or dampen a FED ray cuts. But you know, I think, you know, from from my perspective, we are seeing some moderation and economic activity right now. It's just the first step and there's a long ways to go in terms of economic activity and also inflation. But we're still hopeful that we do get, you know, some further drop in inflation, particularly we think
rental inflation. But the problem is it may be brief, right. It's because we've seen some signs of rental inflation picking up and home prices of picking up. The problem is there's long lags, right It typically it's about twelve months. This time it seems to be longer. But you know, so we're hopeful that we do get you know, further cooling inflation. I think that's really what matters most for the FED, and and I would agree with ROBERTA. There's like a tale of two economies going on right now.
If you can come to capital markets, you're a large corporation, you're you're and you're turned out your debt, you're you're in a pretty good situation. But if you're small business, or if your middle income a household or lower income, you're a variable rate borrower, you are feeling the attention. I think higher rates have had an impact. Look at the housing market. You know, the existing home sales market has been essentially stalled.
And that's potentially part of the reason that small caps, for example, haven't kept up with the games gains. Alberto in this idea that policy is easy, not just because of the fiscal but because of QT two.
The FED would.
Say to that that they are slowing the draw down of the balance sheet, not because they want to ultimately not draw down as much, but it allows them to do it for longer and potentially ultimately get to a lower level because they can keep drawing down without the risk of any financial accident. What would you say to that.
Well, the first the first phase has been very easy for central banks because inflation came down thanks to an easing of supply constraints and also we had a very strong inflow of immigration of relatively cheap labor. Now these one off positives are going to fade, so the first phase of this inflation has been much easier. Now it's you know, the hard part is what's ahead of us. So we have less flow of immigration, and we actually have you know, still supply constraints that are persistent, and.
There are some feedback loops.
So the idea of keeping the balance sheet very large and and you know, making it come down very slowly in theory looks good, but in practice what it does is that it keeps financial conditions loose for a large chunk of the economy. So there's no real tightening for large firms, for mortgage borrowers that are long term.
And so I think that the.
Result of higher front end but also a persistent physical and a persistently large balance sheet as being that financial conditions are not as restrictive as the FED thought they would be, and the narrative is changing.
The narative is changing.
I think that some fat residents are already taking that into account, which means that you know, you're not you won't be able to do a lot of cuts.
But the other consequence is that.
Eventually some central banks will have to choose between price stability and financial stability. So it is true that it's really good to not cause any issues in the financial market, and no one wants it ahead of elections, but you know, the mandate is also price stability, and I think that there's been a lot of micro management of volatility from central banks.
We see it in the allocation of risk causses.
We see it in the love for credit and for carry that there is in the market right now where we're at record tight spreads and investors, you know, are essentially ignoring this front end five percent rate because the long end is inverted.
Cassie, would you just say to that that Alberta is wrong because it's just a lag that that's actually what we're seeing, not that that policy isn't tight enough.
Well, yeah, I.
Have subsympathy to Alberto's comments. You know, certainly financial conditions are easy. Part of that's because the equity market continues to rally, so much, and we do have.
An inverted curve.
But long term rates are higher, you know, I think in terms of the thing about mortgage borrowers, they're still looking at seven percent rates.
That's quite drag.
Cony and especially compared where we were. And I think some corporations, you know, if they have to come to market and roll over their debt, you know they are fine,
you know, facing higher refinancing costs. But in general, yes, I mean, if you're an asset holder and your corporation that has a lot of cash and you turned out your debt, the short term interest rates are not biting as much as the FED had thought previously, and I think that is key, and I can see the FED holding rates higher for longer, possibly if maybe would raise rates higher. So so I do I have sympathy to that.
I think it just really does depend though on inflation, and if we start to see inflation trend lower than the FED will have the green light to start cutting rates, especial next year.
On the show, just a couple of minutes ago, we were talking about deflation, and we were talking about deflation when it comes to gasoline prices in particular. We had this discussion around the average price going down to three dollars and twenty nine cents from the current three sixty
one in the United States. Michael McKee still with us, Mike, I wanted to talk with you about how important that is from an economic perspective, from consumer spending, from what this does to the package of household budget that can go to other things. How stimulative essentially would it be if gasoline prices go down significantly.
Well, the change that we've seen so far isn't that significant. What you usually see in terms of gasoline prices is when they go over the previous high. That's when people start to pull back and get nervous because it's something that they really notice.
Slight changes ten twenty cents either way. They bothered more on the upside, But it hasn't had an impact overall on spending in a while because gas prices have been sort of in this range for some time.
Well, this is a reason why, Kathy, a lot of people were looking at this expectation that we were going to end up with a really crimped consumer where you had savings running out and you had some of these inflationary pressures. People talking about a commodity shock, None of it materialized.
So where are we on that.
Do we have a consumer that has run out of savings and is increasingly strapped, or do we have a consumer that can tap leverage, that has plenty of capacity and particularly at the higher end, still tons of money.
So I would say one of the former camp Lisa, that I do think you know, large portions of the consumer sector is tapped out. They have run down, you know, the two trillion worth of pandemic related savings. They've ramped up consumer credit card use, right, and we're seeing the look at the New York Fed Reserve survey, ten percent of credit card folders are now seriously delinquent. And you
see that also with auto loans delinquency. You typically don't see that when the unemployment rate is, you know, less than four percent. That's usually a recessionary sign. So I do think we're hitting some roadblocks to the consumer. But what's going to matter most is employment growth and wage growth.
Right.
I think now the consumer is really dependent on current income stream to fund spending, and the savings rate to three point two percent, there's not a lot of extra buffer there for the consumer to run things down.
A verto final word, I think there's some weakness.
There's a little bit of cracks opening across the weakest part of the employment market and the credit market too, but it's not enough to create the conditions for a lot of cuts. And in the meantime, outside of the US, we see China stimulating europe spending, so you know, global financial conditions are very loose.
Commodity prices are going up.
You know, we're still, you know, much more worried about the right tail, so things going to well versus.
The left tail, which is the typical recession rate.
So you know, we're going to see more ball in rates and maybe we'll retest the highs in yos throughout the.
Year, nationswide.
Kathy Mistatzik and Alberto Gallo of Andromeda Capital Management, both.
Of you, thank you so much.
A survey from gas Buddy saying sixty percent of Americans are planning a road trip over this Memorial Day weekend. Other people are going to be flying, and they're going to be going to the airport. Patrick Jahan of gas Buddy writing this, well, Americans gripe about the cost of gasoline, it doesn't seem that too many are going to be deterred from hitting the road, great news for those who
are planning to travel. Motorists are likely to see more stations lowering prices to two dollars ninety nine cents per gallon or less as a summer wears on, Patrick joins us.
Now, Patrick, riddle me, this what happened.
With all the people saying we didn't have enough refineries. Yes, we're pumping thirteen million barrels a day, but there's supply cuts coming from elsewhere.
Gas prices are.
Going to skyrocket during the busiest driving season of the year.
Why do you think that's not true.
Well, we've gotten a lot more breathing room here over the last six to twelve months or so. It hasn't been the US refining capacity, but there have been some global additions.
I would point out, though, I think this year and kind of the post COVID world, a lot of Americans hit the road in twenty twenty two.
That's why gas prices did skyrocket over five dollars a gallon.
Things cooled off last summer.
A lot of folks hit the road last summer, But I think this summer is also going to skew International air travel TSA reporting records. Our gasoline demand data I just looked at it did shoot up for yesterday about eleven point seven percent rise from Thursday prior.
So we are starting to see Americans fill their tanks. But I don't think gasoline.
Demand is going to be at record levels though a lot of folks are going to be hitting the road or traveling, they may be doing so via air. Of course, the Eedy transition is part of that discussion as well, although that has slowed down no matter.
A lot of Americans hit the road this memorial there.
So Patrick, let's just sit on that for a second, because some people do say this is the sort of understated aspect of demand in the gasoline market, that more people have more efficient vehicles, even if it's not electric vehicles, it could be hybrids, it could be just cars that get better mileage prefer their gas. How much is that a factor of demand for the gasoline.
Well, probably a notable one.
You know, you talk about the EBU transition where people completely ditch gasoline. That's probably a small but rising part of the conversation, especially in areas like California that are looking and pushing incentives for Americans.
To move into those vehicles.
But as you mentioned, look at manufacturers how they've skewed to plug in hybrid electric vehicles or mild hybrids. A lot of that, I mean five dollars gasoline. Americans when they buy a new vehicle often have the memory of those gas prices, and you know a vehicle, buying one is a long commitment, and so a lot of Americans have been looking at some of those more fuel efficient options in the last couple of years. Keep in mind too, that like myself at this moment, work from home is
still a thing. A lot of Americans still doing that, and that's probably where some of this drop in consumption is coming from.
The fact that it's been a very slow return to the office.
If we start inching towards five dollars a gallon, what do you expect the White House to do? You know how important gas lean is to them. You have been a guest at the White House when ron Klain was Chief of Staff and they were obsessed with this when prices were spiking. What do you expect the administration to do?
Well, they don't have a whole lot of levers.
I know that every American thinks that the White House has some sort of huge lever in the White House, the Oval Office that controls prices, but there's not a whole lot. I mean, the President can offer things like a lot of eighty eight or e fifteen all summer.
That's what he's done, right, that's going to be available through waivers via the EPA.
But the only other thing really is just to kind of hope and pray that hurricane season isn't going to be as bad as they expect. Now again, some of the issues with summer gasoline prices come from the fact that the US is very fragmented when it comes to these summer blends that everyone's heard of. To give you one example, refineries have been struggling here in the Chicago land area.
Chicago uses were.
Formulated gasoline, which is different than downstate Illinois, which is different than Detroit. So there's all these different localized blends that the federal government wanted to do something.
They could really simplify the system.
I mean, California and Arizona both have their own different blends.
It's like you get a blend, I get a blend.
Everyone has different blends, and when refineries go down, that becomes problematic to supply all of these various blends.
So aside from.
That, I mean, the White House already shutting down now the Northeast Strategic Gasoline Reserve.
Of course that was mandated by Congress. Trump tried to do it in twenty twenty. But even that is not going to really move the needle. So the White House is just kind of along for.
The ride here, you know, hoping that OPEC will continue the status quo and oil prices will continue to be under eighty What do you think could.
Be a bigger impact this summer, natural disasters or geopolitics. Giving me of two hot wars, one in the Middle East and of course in Ukraine, I think.
Without a doubt, I think the weather is going to be a bigger factor the Middle East.
I mean, Iran now.
Has a lot of its own issues with the helicopter and elections coming up, so Iran and Israel.
I mean, that was something to watch, but even that didn't really move the needle. I think oil markets are kind of stuck in the suppressive state right.
OPEK is now saber rattling, They're going to have a meeting virtually, and oil prices this morning still under seventy seven.
Dollars in Burrow.
So, you know, I think weather's the big wildcard. Nobody controls it right, even the Middle East, there's some certainties, even if they're unreliable.
Mother Nature is just completely question marks all over it. Will we get a major storm of the Gulf of Mexico.
Is it going to be a harvey and dump, you know, one to two feet of rain on refinery, shutting them down.
I think that's really the thing for this summer that keeps me awake.
Will hurricane season turn into the dread like everyone's talking about.
National Weather Service yesterday issuing its most.
Active early forecast ever for hurricane season, and those sea surface temperatures are rising, and it's quite concerning.
I'll tell you another thing that's keeping people up at night, Patrick, who are on their way to travel. It is the headline after headline about Boeing and concerns about that plane. You couple that with what we're expecting in the airports is going to be extremely busy.
It's going to be chaos.
Do you see any of that translating into folks more wanting to travel via their car rather than going to the airport.
Well, we know Americans have an affinity for their cars, And keep in mind also the headlines over that Singapore Airlines turbulence is probably getting a lot of attention as well. But keep in mind, once you buy those tickets, especially with some of these fairs, now you're stuck with it. Oftentimes airlines now have those restrictions back in place. But I think to your point, Americas still has a love obsession with the fact that cars are mobile.
You can leave whenever you want, you don't have to do security.
So yes, I think Americans of anything you know, that haven't yet figured out their travel will probably skew more to using their vehicle, especially as summer wears on.
Gas prices we expect.
Are going to be highest on Memorial Day, lower for July four, and pending Mother Nature, even lower for Labor Day. So I think that's probably going to open the door for some of those last minute road trips.
As our survey points out, Memorial Day is the most.
Traveled holiday, but if you look at July four and Labor Day, plenty of people are hitting the road, they just haven't planned it yet. And those folks that haven't planned ahead are probably going to gravitate towards gasoline consumption.
So we could see a little bit of a rebound there.
To your point, pasta, can you put some numbers on that in terms of what price you expect things to be just heading into Labor Day?
You know, again wide range of possibilities.
We have the national average potentially as low as even three twenty nine, but as high as three ninety. August and September are the months that we have the least certainty out of all twelve months that we put our forecast together. August is really up in the air. Why because you get a lot of late summer demand. Will we get hurricane season that's more active before. If we don't get any hurricanes, we're probably going to skew to the lower part of that forecast range.
Maybe three point thirty to three point fifty.
But we've all seen the impact that something like a Hurricane Harvey can have on gasoline prices, and we could skew to the three eighties and three nineties or like last year. You'll remember that a spat of refinery issues both the West Coast and the Plane States all at once and caused a late summer surge in the national average to three ninety a gallon. So we're very mindful of what happened last year.
Patrick, we just have about a minute left. There is a theory that the president can just empty the strategic petroleum Reserve and drive prices down.
Is that valid?
Well, I mean, that's what so many Americans forget about.
We all stare at the price of oil, right there's a lot of couch analysts who say oil is this, gasoline should be that, But we all forget about the middlement the refinery.
The thing what we've talked about.
COVID still remember, has reached us refining capacity.
So you can have all the oil in the world. The spr could be full, you could release the whole thing.
It doesn't translate to usable products like gasoline, diesel, and jet fuel.
List still is subject to that bottleneck of the refinery. So that's where the president is relatively powerless.
This oil reserve is not going to necessarily equate to lower gasoline prices. And keep in mind too, when it comes to that gasoline reserve, it then costs two hundred million dollars to maintain over the ten years it's been in existence. The cost of that gasoline, the street value today of that gasoline one hundred and three million so it's probably a good thing we're shutting down that gasoline reserve.
I would point out that's something that even President Trump tried to do back in twenty twenty.
Patrick d'han of gas Buddy, thank you so much.
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M hmm.