Sandra Day O'Connor: the Most Powerful Female Justice

Although Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg has eclipsed her in fame, O'Connor was the most powerful woman to sit on the Court, as the swing vote for more than a quarter of a century. A new biography of O'Connor is called First, and the author, Evan Thomas, joins me now. Evan O'Connor was the swing vote on abortion, affirmative action, Bush v. Gore, to name a few. But she wasn't wedded to legal doctrines as such. She was more practical. Explain how she

approached these cases. She was the last justice to have actually run for office, how to ask for votes and be in the real world of the state legislature and in state government, so that that informed her. You know, she was from the real world. But she was intensely practical, and she always asked herself, what is the impact of the decision? Not just you know, what's the doctrine that we're enforcing here, but how's this going to play out?

This is important for her in the two biggies on affirmative action and abortion, because in abortion rights she she personally found abortion abborn, and yet she was the justice who kept abortion rights alive for twenty five years. Affirmative action, same thing. She had her doubts about affirmative action, but she saw a practical need for it, and she was a decisive vote on affirmative action. You write that even before the Casey decision, O'Connor told her brother, the abortion

issue is wearing me down, explained the pressures on her. Well, they she's a Reagan appointee and the author of Roe v. Wade, the famous abortion decision in the nine thought that she was going to be the decisive vote against abortion. In fact, he wrote down in a piece of paper, she was just again against the abortion. So the expectation was that

she would vote to reverse. She went the other way on that because she was she's a woman, for one thing, and and deeply sensitive to the issues that face other women. And although she found abortion, something she wouldn't do. She wasn't going to take it away from others. What she did do is find a compromise saying, yes, there can be some state restriction on abortion, but they can't put what they call an undue burden on women. It's kind of a vague standard cause a lot of litigation, a

lot of fighting. People are still mad at her from both sides. She's trying to work through a very difficult societal problem slowly, carefully, piece by piece. She was well aware of her place in history as the first female Supreme Court justice. How did that affect her work and her relationships with the other justices, Well, she knew everybody was watching. She used to say, it's good to be first, but you don't want to be the last. And she

she had to perform. She was an intermediate state court judge. She was not by moddom standards. She wasn't qualified, but there were there just weren't any women Republican judges in She was super smart and she caught up fast, in fact, within three weeks, just as Pal was writing his family. She's brilliant, so she was able to catch up. But she knew everybody was watching. She also knew that the other some of the other justices did not like her, and she had to deal with that, and she did

it by not picking stupid fights. This is really her mantra was, don't you know, stand up when you have to, but don't get into fights that are just ego Jeffs. And her writing style was not flowery, was also sort of practical into the point, was that deliberate? Oh yeah, I mean she's actually a beautiful writer. If you read her memoir The Lazy b about growing up on this

cattle ranch, an unbelievable story. She wrests like Wallace Stegner, But her opinions were dull, as dishwar They were intentionally boring. In fact, when her clerks who drafted the opinions put in anything rhetorical or kind of interesting, she take it out. She wanted to just just the facts man. And um, you write that she disliked her successor, Justice Samuel Alito, who is a reliable conservative vote. She said, the last thing you needed was a fifth Catholic man on the court.

Did she think that he was going to destroy her legacy? Ye? Is? She worried on these issues that we've talked about on abortion rights and affirmative action. He was gonna go the other way. So she worried about that. She was not somebody ever to bad mouth others, really, and she was a little bit discreet about but a little but actually surprisingly critical of him, and uh didn't it didn't really warmed him personally, and worried that she would he would

undo her legacy. He hasn't yet, but the court is still an evolution. One very sad part is that she left the court because her husband had developed Alzheimer's and then she regretted that. Explain what happened, well, she left. You know, her husband had sacrificed for her when they came to Washington. He gave up a big time law practice, and she he and then he got Alzheimer's and she cared from him as long as she could. She took him, took him to her chambers. He would sleep on a

bench in her front office. But finally it was just too much, and so she said, I'm going to leave the court to take care of John, to take care of He sacrificed for me. Now I am going to sacrifice for him. But within six months of leaving the court, he could barely recognize her. So she was heartbroken by that, and she said it was a mistake to leave the court.

What's her relationship with the other female justices? Now three more? Well, she paid the way Ruth Bader Ginsburg comes twelve years later. They were allies. They were not particularly intimate friends. They weren't They weren't cozy, but they certainly worked together. Uh. She's less of an activist that Justice Ginsburg. But they worked on women's rights together. In fact, on a on a big one of Virginia Military Academy. Uh. The institute case had been assigned to uh to O'Connor, she said, no,

you should have this one. And Justice Ginsburg said, I loved her for that. You know, she wasn't a feminist per se, but she was the first many times in her life. How did she navigate those waters? It was tricky, you know. She was not at all strident. Uh, but she wasn't passive either. She knew how to stand up

to people. She had one particular nemesis, a drunk in the Arizona legislature, and she called him on his drinking and he said, oh, if you were a man, I'd punch you in the nose, and she said, if you were a man, you could well beyond. Besides being the first woman on the Supreme Court, what else do you think she'll be remembered for. She really cared about as her legacy something called ice Civics, teaching kids civics through video games reaches about six million kids a year now.

She said that was a more important legacy than the Supreme Court. She really cared that. She thought Americans didn't know any civics. She really cares about civics and civics engagement. She wants to teach kids. That is a legacy. Really, she really cares about. We only have a minute here, but I remember she did come to Supreme Court arguments when one of her cases might have been at stake, one of her precedents. Yeah, she she wanted to be seen. You know. She was subtle, but she would say to

other women, you know, be out there. Uh, put on a show, make them see you. You know, she could be aggressive when she had to be, but she could be very polite and careful and non confrontational. She knew when to be which one. She knew when to pick her fights and when to step back. Thank you so much. Evan. It's a great book. It's called First Biography of Sandra Day O'Connor, the first female justice on the Supreme Court.

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