This morning, President Trump tried to distance himself from George Papadopoulos, who served as a foreign policy adviser during Trump's campaign and whose indictment was revealed yesterday along with that of Paul Manafort, Trump's former campaign chairman, and his deputy, Rick Gates. Trump tweeted, few people knew the young, low level volunteer named George, who has already proven to be a liar. Joining us is Stephen Vladdock, professor at the University of
Texas Law School. Steve After, we've gotten past the shock value of these indictments and particularly the plea agreement, what do they tell us about Special Counsel Robert Mueller's investigation? Yeah, I think the real takeaway, at least for me, from yesterday's news is that this is just the beginning, um,
not the end of this story. I mean, I think, you know, any thought that this was just about Paul Manaford and that his indictment was kind of end matters is put rather conclusively to rest by the Papadopoulis plea deal, both because in substance this is clearly I think a connection between the campaign and Russia, and because Papadopolis is presumably pleading in exchange for something. I mean, presumably the
government was getting something out of it. The real question is what did the government get and who might next be in the crosshairs? Steve, if we we stepped back for a moment. So there was reporting over the weekend there was going to be an indictment. Um, there's a lot of speculation was going to be Paul Manafort. What that the stuff that happened yesterday? What surprised you the most? Frankly, I mean, I think everything about the Papadopolis plea deal
is what surprised me. I mean, I think you know, Manafort was I think most people assume the most likely person to be indebted on Monday. Um, you know, the indictment, as the president himself when I was way to stress, is not really about the campaign. It's about a bunch of other shady financial and tax dealings. But the Papadopolis story, I think it's much closer to home, and really I
think caught everybody by surprise. And so what that suggests to me is that Manafort really is a distraction here. He might be the bigger fish, right, but Papadopolis is really the bigger story. Steve. In the transcript of the plea agreement that Papadopoulis made, the government said that it would be able to prove his conduct by, among other things, emails, texts, communications via social media, Skype records, records of Internet searches,
location data, and other evidence. And also they arrested him at Dula's airport and flipped him without any leaks and having all this research on him. Is that sending a message to other people in the White House? So, I mean, I think it's very much sending a message, And indeed, I think that's the release of that news time, I think, so, you know, not coincidentally, to correspond with the Manifort indictment.
Is trying to send a message to the White House, to folks who might already be cooperating with Special Counsel Maller, to folks who might be thinking about it. You know. It's not only that Special Counsel Malor has gone to all of these lengths and has been so I think,
quietly productive behind the scenes. Um, it's that this guy Papadopoulos was out there by all accounts for three months working on behalf of Muller in the investigation, and one can only imagine what kind of stuff he may have picked up and who else he might have implicated during
those three months of cooperating with the Special counsel. Steve You Uh had a column in The Washington Post today in which he played the role of Donald Trump advisor, saying, it would be a really, really bad idea to fire Robert Mueller, but if Trump's gonna do it, he should do it now before uh there's gonna be too much backlash. I think you can correct me if I mischaracterized it, um, But let me push back on that, UM. Lindsay Graham. UH. Senator Graham came out yesterday and said if you fire
as Mueller, there will be wholly hell to pay. Mike Lee, uh, senator from Utah, very conservative, agreed with that. Isn't it already too late for Donald Trump to fire Robert Mueller? So you know it very well. Maybe I think the purpose of the column was just to suggest that if it's not too late already, it's getting late soon, right,
it's getting late early. And you know, I realized that there have been lots of I think positive and um correct statements of support from you said you mentioned Linda Graham and Mike Lee. Chairman Grassley, the chair of the Sensory Shary Committee, yesterday came out again in support of Mueller. I think the real question is, you know, what would Congress do beyond these public statements tisking at the president
if you actually took one of these dramatic steps. You know, I hope Congress would actually show some backbone and push back more aggressively against the president. But I mean, guys, if we look at the track record to date, there have been lots of public statements like this and virtually no action to actually try to rein in what seems to be a fairly widespread consensus about the president, you know, acting inappropriately. Steve, very quickly, I just want to talk
about Trump and Sarah Huckabee Sanders. You insisting that the fact that Papadopoulos was a volunteer makes a difference when Jared Kushner's, Trump's son in law, Steve Bannon, Manafort, Gates were all unpaid volunteers while running the campaign. I think Kushner still is so does that make any difference? In about thirty seconds, yeah, I mean it doesn't make any
difference legally. I think they're trying to control the narrative, And I think the biggest takeaway from yesterday is that the only person who is really controlling the narrative of the story is Special Counsel Muller. So whatever they want to say about Poptopolas today, who knows what we're gonna find out tomorrow and in the days and weeks to come, both about Papadopolis and about others who might be involved. Thanks so much, always great to have you on that.
Stephen Vladik, Professor at the University of Texas Law School,