Imagine a former president of a country found guilty of corruption and money laundering, who remains one of the most popular presidents in its history and as a strong contender in the next presidential race, and the country's current president has also been charged with corruption. It sounds like fiction, but it's fact. The country is Brazil and its former president, Luis and Nascio Lula da Silva, was found guilty in the corruption probe known as car Wash and sentenced to
nine and a half years in prison. During a speech in Salpolo yesterday, Lula blamed the media and prosecutors for plotting against him and vowed to appeal. Joining us from the Bloomberg News Brazilia office is Raymond call it the bureau chief. Ray tell us about the charges Lula was convicted of. Yes, him, Essentially, he's being accused of having taken bribes from construction companies, not in the form of cash,
but in the form of benefits. We're talking about real estate to each side house and improvements up grades to to that house. As he said, I mean, it's just huge. It's a huge story that it's turned the country upside down. This was a man who Barack Obama called the most popular politician on earth, and here he is facing perhaps as much as a decade in prison. He will, of course still still appeal. Well, when he does appeal, he's going to claim that his defense wasn't appropriately considered. Vote.
What's his defense to this, Well, it's basically on technical grounds and some of the evidence that they've provided hasn't been properly considered. Um, this is but but he's also at the same time, he's it's a two pronged approach. At the same time, he's claiming that this is some sort of political persecution, that the reason that he's being charged and sentenced is because he's, you know, still leading
in the polls. He could come back. He often used uses this this idea that you know, he was the first working class president and Brazil's establishment, the elite doesn't want, um, you know, another another labor leader in office. Again. Um, that has been his line, judging by sort of the turnout in the streets the last couple of days, and not too many people are buying that line. H. We stuff to see their demonstrations planned for for the twenty of this month, But so far, um, you know, the
hardcore little supporters aren't aren't to be seen. Ray. He can't run if he's if his conviction is upheld, But can he run while he's awaiting appeal. That's an excellent question, and there's some some technicalities there that that we need. According to the law, he needs to be convicted in a second by the appeals court. In other words, it needs that this ruling needs to be upheld. Now he could until then he runs. What what happens if if
he if he is barred during the process. There's all sorts of potential legal loopholes here in gray areas that aren't entirely clear. Um. The only thing we know so far is that if the ruling is upheld, he definitely can't run well. And the current Prime Minister is also
facing the prospect of corruption charges, isn't that right? The current president, yes, Michelle Tamer is also is also facing the charges that there's Now the difference here is um that that his child depends on approval by by Congress. So it's not actually judges who decide the fate of Michelle Tamer the current president, but politicians where he still has a majority. So that's one if you would like
to say one of the flaws of the system. Um that if you have enough political support, you may not have to face justice. Ray, As you mentioned, Lula is an iconic political figure in Brazil and he had a lot of support. Why and it seemed to be support even during the case. Why do you think that the verdict by a judge, not by a jury changed so many of his supporters of means that they're not out
there supporting him. Now, Well, look, I mean there a couple of theories about this, and and one goes as such that while things are doing well, um, politicians are can get away with more. In other words, during the past decades of this huge commodity boom, Lula was you know, was credited with putting Brazil on the world map. Um, you know, it hosted the World the World Cup, the Olympics. Things were going well. And of course when things are going well, you don't, you know, take a second look
at where all the money is coming from. And now that Brazil is in its deepest recession on record, of course, you know, leaders have lost popularity and there are prosecutors out there willing to take a second look, um, and well this is what they found. At least that's that's one of the theories. That's that's going around right in about thirty seconds. You know, this is a huge corruption investigation and and it's encompassing a lot of people. Can Brazil dig out of this and get to a point
where it's politics aren't so corrupt? Look that that's another We debate this every day here. We hear people debated and the elevators in the hallways. Uh, they're mixed feelings. Some people are dismayed, say, oh god, you know, there's just corruption everywhere. Everybody's corrupting. Other people are saying, you know what, we're finally making progress because corruption was always around.
Now people are starting to judges are starting to clean things up, and there's light at the end of the tunnel. Thanks so much for being with us. That's Raymond College. He is the bureau chief of the Bloomberg News Brazilia office, and he's reporting on the conviction of this former president Luis in Nascio Lula da Silva