Belgian Requlator Seeks Court Order Against Facebook (Audio)

disagreed with the allegation allegations. Joining us is Don Applin Bloomberg Law, Managing Editor for Privacy and Data. Don Facebook has been a target for Belgium's Data Protection Commission since at least and it's gone to court. Tell us what happened when a court ordered it to stop storing non

users personal data. Well, Facebook kind of objected to the fact that a Belgian court was even looking at it, and appealed, excuse me, it's got that Friday going on, Um, that's what it is, and and appealed, and the appeals court said, you know, we kind of agree that, uh, in fact, this this dispute should be being dealt with in Ireland because that's where Facebook has its primary headquarters. In the EU, so they basically won the appeal on this.

I went back to the Commission and they started kind of thinking about how they could rejigger things so that it was more palatable focused on people in Belgium. So done. What exactly is Facebook doing that the Belgians find so objectionable? Well, it would be really great if we knew exactly what Facebook was doing, but you know, not as exactly. It's all the stuff behind the scenes that they do that

drives their engine of you know, behavioral targeted advertising. Um, the ways that they gathered data to make those ads when you're on your Facebook page actually be meaningful to you.

So they are collecting data from people who click like Mutton's, they are collecting data through their advertising data analytics thing called pixels or pixels that is a basically a way that the advertisers can put information on their websites that allows them to know how often things are being engaged and and Facebook is drawing data from that, or at least allegedly is. And then social plug ins on you know, on a person's website that says, you know here, click

here and it will take you over to Facebook. All of those are ways that they can gather information, um and a lot of that is happening, you know, basically without people knowing that that's what's you know, what's what's going on now. Facebook says that it disagrees with the Belgium watch dogs claims and that putting people in control of their privacy is at the heart of everything we do. Let's talk about the consent that you sign up for

when you're using Facebook and what that allows Facebook to do. Well. I think, you know, Facebook has come a long way and being at least a little more trans parent about what they do and giving some you know, giving users some control over their privacy. But I think there's so much going on there that when they use terminology to describe some of their mechanisms, it's not entirely clear to a lot of users that they are actually giving consent

for this data to be pulled up. And I think that goes to the heart of what the both the Belgian Privacy Commission is arguing about and saying that that's that's unacceptable, and also what you know what Facebook frankly is saying, well, this is the backbone of what we do and we're not we're not misusing this information. We're just trying to be able to continue to give you this free service. So how big a deal? And it's I mean, obviously this seems like it's a big deal

for Facebook. How big a deal is it for them to be able to collect the information in the way that they do. I think it probably this or some other version of this is almost necessary. Um, it's it's the it's the it's the money stream for Facebook is to be able to offer app advertising and haven't be targeted. So I'm I I think it's it would be it would be potentially devastating if they couldn't you do this

at all? But I think that's an unlikely result here, don't What about the people who haven't signed the consent? The authorities in Belgium are saying that these similar techniques are being used to track non users of Facebook for commercial purposes, right, And that's the thing that I think they and they said it yes, or said it in their hearing presentation and support of their complaint, that that's

that is exactly what bothers them the most. Um. Yeah, I think that that is a really a big significant problem, especially in the EU, especially with the new EU Privacy regime taking effect next year, which is even more focused on, you know, needing specific consent from whomever you're collecting data from. Down There's also an issue, isn't there about um Facebook? You know, if you are using Facebook but then you stop using it, their system allows them to keep tracking

what you're doing even though you're not on the site anymore. Yeah,

and that's that's definitely. That's kind of another. I mean, there's all sorts of little gradiations and differences here, and there's been different pieces of UH data protection authorities all over the U focusing on little components, that being one big one that you know, somehow I'm logged off, but the system is still working to collect at it and they've been so I can't remember which one it was, which one of the data protection authorities was was fairly

successful in getting them the back off. I might have been the Dutch, I can't remember, but they, you know, to get them to back off a little bit. I mean, Facebook's got a lot of control over how they do things, so they can make some adjustments here and there um and still not lose their ability to do behavioral advertising. Will Belgium be able to pursue this even though Facebook one the appeal saying that it should have been done

in Ireland. Well, I think there's a lot that the Belgian uh Privacy Commission has done to try to make this focus now on Belgium. You keep hearing like you started off, you're talking about it. It's it's a certain eleven point for million people in Belgium who use Facebook or you know, and it's less about kind of the

in the practices that applies across the board. So I think they're trying to you know, they're trying to make the point that regardless of UM, Facebook Ireland, you know, Facebook being in Ireland, that you know, they're they they are obligated to protect their citizens who are affected by this in Belgium if in fact, on they're able to the Belgian regulators are able to really keep a court

case going against Facebook here despite that appeal ruling. UM, and they do convince the court that you know, there are the there's a real connection to Belgium. What kind of relief can we expect them to want a court to impose. Well, I'm sure they'll shoot for the mean, I mean, they are shooting for the moon. They're gonna want them to completely change everything they're doing. Um, but I think you know, there's always an opportunity for this

to be resolved. I mean, Facebook says, you know, we'd be glad to sit down and talk to Belgium, and of course they throw in there and the Irish Data Protection Authority at the same time, um and and and come to some sort of discussion about changing this. At the same time, Belgian says, look, we're done talking. That's why we're in court now. So we're gonna ask for

basically everything. We want you to shut down all these things that you're doing, you know, not track people when they're when they're just when they're not users of Facebook. We want you to you know. And and then then there's the penalty there that June mentioned at the start. There's a two hundred ninety six thousand dollar a day find that they could uh seek, you know, and that's but I think that's unlikely the court would grant something

that extreme. Don in about thirty seconds. Is there a reason why there's so much scrutiny by European regulators, the Dutch and the French and not the US. Well, I think probably there is some scrutiny going on in the US, but we played a little closer to the vest um. I think there are the FTC is probably very interested in what's happening in the U and paying attention to this, but I also think there's a little bit more of

a business understanding here that you know. That's how you get free internet is you have some of these mechanisms in place. We've got to end it there, but thank you. Don Applin's the Bloomberg Law Managing editor for Privacy and Data. That's it for this edition of Bloomberg Law. Thanks to our producer Marx and Hiss Couchi and our technical director Chris strike Homey will be back on Monday. Have a great weekend. Coming up next Bloomberg Markets with Corey Johnson. This is Bloomberg