Understanding Facebook's Antitrust Case Win

of social media technology, the uh, the Internet. Jim, thanks so much for joining us here. So you know, you look at Facebook. They one dismissal of the United States and the Very States monopoly lawsuits. Is Facebook? Are they in the clear? Now? I wouldn't say they're in the clear. I mean it was a pretty stunning decision. I think everybody agreed there. And just look at their sock price if you want to see how stunning it was to the market place. But you know, they are still a

giant target, right, they are a monopoly. It's funny I heard you all talking about friends are in my space, you know, sarcastically jokingly. Um, you know you're not gonna go You're not gonna thank thank god, someone gets my sarcasm. You know, I think, oh yeah, I remember friends or in my space, but TikTok snaps or maybe the current analogies and what Facebook will say if they compete every day for consumer's attention, right, and they don't have a monopoly,

that's obviously their position. But they are not in the clear at all, right, you know, whether it be the STC going back and trying again with a stronger case, whether it be Congress actually passing you know I anti trust law, which is is going to require a level of bipartisanship we have yet to see, or whether it's something in the EU or other jurisdictions. This was a US victory. It was a big victory for Facebook, but

they are by no means out of the woods. I'm looking at a list of other companies that are worth a trillion dollars. Facebook briefly eclipsed one trillion dollars. Actually I think it's still is worth just about one trillion dollars. And the others are Microsoft, which well it's worth two we were talking about. Apple is worth more than two billion dollars. Amazon is worth almost two trillion dollars um

and and Google is um one one and two thirds trillions. There, these are big companies that do stuff arguably that we all really need. They really improve the quality of our lives. And does Facebook belong on this list? Well, the stock market seems to think so. Right. Um, you know, if if you're going to be in that kind of company with two trillion dollar companies or or will say one

point seven trillion dollars in the case of Google. Uh, you know, the Facebook is a consumer attention company and what they've done, arguably better than anybody else, is for two and a half billion people around the world, create a habit of them coming back every single day right there. Daily active users number is their most impressive one, and

so clearly people are getting something out of that. And your points about the misinformation, the impact on elections, I mean, there's a lot of negatives that go along with that. But also remember you have the ability to connect with family and friends, say, in touch with people you haven't talked with in years. I mean, is clearly something that's bringing people back. And Facebook just as importantly has learned how to monetize that right and that they make massive

sums of revenue from advertising off of that. So they built a business and a business model that goes along with that consumer attention. And I do think they belong on the list. They're obviously very different Microsoft, I will say, I use I also use Facebook almost every day. So um, in regards to the misinformation, it seems like Google has done a much better job handling this than has Facebook. And Facebook seems to go, you know, kicking and screaming

into um, the land of regulation. Why don't they do a better job of getting all of the fake news and the you know, anger, hate and vitriol off of their website. Well, I'm going to debate that point with you. I'm not sure that I would agree Google does a better job with that because specifically, remember Google owns YouTube.

You typically don't care about Google and misinformation about YouTube and misinformation, but Google of course owns that, and YouTube arguably has a bigger problem than than anybody with misinformation, and as the exact same types of problems that Facebook does. Which is, when you get to such a massive scale, there's only so much humans can do, there's only so much machines can do. Decisions are inconsistent at best, missing at worst, and so it is a very daunting problem.

I'm not I'm not suggesting any of it should cry. It's here for one and two trillion dollar companies. They've got the resources to try to solve this, but it is a very daunting problem on a scale that nobody has ever been able to handle before. Jim, do you expect is there an appetite within Congress to maybe take a much tighter rein on big tech? There is absolutely an appetite there, But I'll give you two two things. They're one, Republicans and Democrats both very much want to

go after big tech, but for very different reasons. Right, So again, how do you get those reasons to align in action? I think there'll be an impetence. But the thing that people aren't talking about is I'm not sure there's that much consumer attention and interest in anti trust.

I mean, it's a snoozer of a topic, and as big as the news was yesterday for Facebook and its stock price, we track your consumer attention and we look at the different topics and then I trust interest and then the number of people clicking on stories about anti sust is microscopic compared to things about the economy and even fashion, you know, which is as a great sign for for retailers. You know, fashion and sports and those kinds of things are far far more interesting to consumers,

and ultimately politicians respond to consumers. It's not at all clear to me that there's a consumer pressure on Congress to actually cause them to work in a buipartisan ways to actually follow through on their threats. All right, Always great to get your intelligence on these issues, Jim, really important, I think for us and for listeners. Jim Anderson, the CEO of Social Flow talking to us about Facebook, the big win yesterday and the value it's now worth more

than one trillion dollars. This is Bloomberg. I want to get right now out straight back to Well, maybe she'll have something to say about small calf, but I think we're gonna focus more on UM fixed income and equity strategies, a bigger picture look. Janelle Woodward joins us. She is president at McKay Shields UM. They are a one hundred and fifty eight billion dollar global asset manager. Janelle, let's let's let me get your outlook on what's going on

in this market. First. I keep getting this UM mental image of a roller coaster, you know, right when you get at the top and it's kind of slowing down about to crest, and um, you're at all time highs on equity indexes. People are starting to really worry about inflation. Uh. FED members are starting to say, we need to raise rates by the end of next year. I'm getting that feeling in my stomach. Do you get that as well? Uh? Well,

thank you for having me, um. I think the good news is we don't have that feeling in our stomach. But I do think that we recognize that just like last year was quite unprecedented, their recoveries and as unprecedented, and anytime we go through an inflection point when it when it comes to policy, there's some digestion that needs to happen, you know. Noting the Hawker tone of the fat earlier this month, I think we left quite constructive.

And I think some of the themes that we've seen across the equity markets, we've seen across the exed income credit markets as well, and credit has been really well supported going in the month. Then, so Janelle, one of the things that the market focuses on somewhat, but it seems like it's completely focusing on on the FED. Here is fiscal stimulus. We've got some a couple of different bills kind of bouncing around Washington. How important is that to your outlook for the market if at all? Yeah,

it's certainly important. And I think if we look back earlier in a lot of the interpretation around fiscal policy and what it meant played a significant role in the in the rate market. You know, when we look at the infrastructure though on the table um you know, the bill itself five hundred and eight billion isn't significant per day um, but definitely isn't not in the right direction. We think it's it's a very positive development when we

think about our infrastructure needs. You know, we're constructive on the compromise, but we also think that there's going to be a flow through in the fixed income markets from a structural perspective. Um, And in that context, we're really were really focused on the implications on the muni market in particular, Uh, what happens to the muni market? I mean, especially with this huge influx of cash and it's a market that's so conservative and kind of slow to make moves.

What are the effects? Yeah, I think what's interesting is we look back across six income markets over the last year. Even one of the things we've noticed is really some of the structural shifts that have taken place, and one of those areas is taxical munis and we've seen a

significant growth in the taxiclemuni market. And so when we put that against the infrastructure bill UM, you know, a lot of that debt will end up flowing into the municipal market and we think it creates a lot of just a really constructive opportunity for investors, both in terms of diversification UM, the ability to invest in clean water and public power and public housing, and in the potential

entities UM. But at the same point, aligned with the infrastructure bill UM, you know, they're just sustainability aspects of this that we're hearing more and more about from our clients, and we think, really it is a terrific opportunity for investors. So, you know, real quickly talk to us about E s G investing. We hear a lot more about it. How

do you guys factor that into your investment process? Yeah, I think it's it's critical and as we think about, you know, what we should be looking at from an analysis perspective, and what constitutes materiality. E S and G factors have become more and more part of this dialogue. You know, it's both about downside protection but also about

just the direction of the businesses longer term. So we see an opportunity through this growth, as I mentioned in the tax in the taxable meeting space, but we also see it broadly across across the taxable fixed income space. Very exciting for mackay. Today we actually launch E S G B, which is a core plus UH taxable UH ets focus specifically on E S and G and and we think it's really important really to demonstrate this this value proposition to our clients within a core fixed income

place where they're allocated. So we think it's going to continue to be very topical and important to investors going forward. All right, Channel, thank you so much for joining us. We really appreciate it. As always. Janelle Woodward's president of McKay Shields. Right now, let's get to something completely different. It is twenty past eleven right now in New York, twenty past five here in Jeremy. I want to get

over to Scott Freeman. He's the co founder and partner at J S T Capital um talking about the latest crypto news with us giving us his outlook on the space and um, Scott, what do you think, by the way, Dallas is a good place for crypto. I mean maybe Austin is better, right, but UM, it's a place where I think there's a lot of new, uh sort of frontier kind of business going on, and I guess that's is crypto still in that stage. Scott, Yeah, I think so.

I thinks always been a lot of technology accounting Austin and UM. More recently, people have been leaving California two Texas for tax reasons and I think that's just really UM making Texas, Austin, Dallas more and more viable for people in the crypto SMAs all right, Scott. So we've seen the volatility continue in let's say bitcoin, for example, it's up four point seven percent today. It bounced like it hasn't a past kind of off. That thirty thousand

dollar ish level did get a little bit below. Oh here, talk to us about China. That has been a big part of the narrative recently, and it's not been good. How do you think about some of the issues coming out of China in terms of ban on mining and restriction on crypto companies and how material is that for crypto? Well, you know, I think for bitcoin it obviously caused the or a big factory and the climb he scene over

the la past few weeks. Um, But you know, I think all of that has already placed into the market. I think, um, you know, crypto bitcoin is is looking good at going forward. And I think for all of us we've been in crypto for a long time. We've seen these issues pop up every few months, whether it's China, whether it's technology, whether attacking. I mean, we've been through this. Crypto is just a very very volto asset and it's just a number example of that volatility. So, um, what

happens to bitcoin now? I mean when I think about price action here, I feel like if it dropped below thirty thousand, that could be problematic. But I don't know if that's just because it's a round number that I've heard people rattle off a lot um and I feel like, if it's gonna go up, it needs to go back towards fifty and change to um to show success. Is

that fair? Yeah, I think that's fair. I think we would kind of put the downside closer to twenty five as supposed to thirty, just given where the price that action has been and where the activity has been. Honestly, from from January of this year, we've always thought of arrange to fifty, which has been pretty accurate generally speaking. UM, what we think there's a lot of value in some of the other coins, especially East. You know some people

who are looking to get into the ecosystem. Bitcoin gets all the headlines, but it's not necessarily the best opportunity for for gonal forward. So I saw that Kathy would and ARC they filed for US bitcoin et F in partnership with twenty one shares. How important is that for the space to have a Cathy would bitcoin etif? I think it's great. I think that on top of other positive news, I cat came out of announcement thing, but

they're gonna be UM offering an exchange trade bitcoin. So I think things like that are all just great and bullish for the ecosystem. Um, we're just waiting for the sec it. I actually approved one of the e g s. Think that would be great. There There are already a bunch in Canada if you want in, and there's other ways to For me, Cathy Wood seems like I thought she wanted to be on the leading edge of technology. Isn't she better positioned in the theory um or and defy? Like,

what what's she doing in digital gold? Well? I think she does both, right, I'm guessing that she's looking at all the opportunities. He says, you know what, she has a good name, she's very well regarded, she's very reputable, and my guess is that she thinks this is a good opportunity, just an increase the assets she has. You know. It's it's interesting, Scott, I'm wondering. It seems like the market, Um, if you just look at the volatility around bitcoin, it's

searching for additional signs of validation, maybe for crypto. Um. You know you had um, you know, you had Elon Musk, you know, buy some crypto bye bye, I'm sorry bye, by some bitcoin and allowed bitcoin to be used for purchasing of some of the vehicles. What's the next big thing that you think the market's looking for in terms of validation of cryptos? I guess maybe an asset class, a real viable asset class. Yeah. I think that there will be others that come into the ecosystem that provide

access to it. UM we're working with some of those parties right now, whether they're being UM banks, brokers, private banks, people overseas. I just think you'll you'll start seeing more and more people from traditional finance offering those rails and access to the ecosystem. All right, Scott, Thanks so much. Scott Freeman, co founder and a partner of j ST Capital, giving us our seemingly daily update on all things crypto. Well, the more coming up this is Bloomburton. Some really interesting

news this morning. United Airlines goes all in on premium flyers with two hundred and seventy jets and some upgrades two Boeing Max planes. It's big new is I think for both United and maybe even more so for Boeings. When we talk about the airline bizes building planes. We talked to George Ferguson. He's the aerospace analyst for Bloomberg Intelligence, and George, we gotta start with if you can disclose this, where are you today and why are you where you are? Paul,

good day. So I'm in Dallas with all that great discussion about Dallas just on the on the on the radio. I guess airplanes in Dallas. That wasn't a bad thing. A lot of important airlines here right to America and Southwest. There's a conference down here in Dallas called Aero Engines America. I'll be on a panel on Thursday, talk about maintenance and you know, the useful life of an airplane and

all those heavy subjects. So, George, so am, I have to understand that there's actually a real conference taking place with real people, Yes, sir, live people. I think there's how they do it in Texas. That's how they do it in Texas. If they don't hide away in corners wearing masks and keeping distance, it's Texas. Um, which is I mean, I'm not saying we should all act like that, but it's one of the things I love about Texas.

I love I love the airport there. Um. Just because Solomon Brothers thought it was a bad place to be doesn't mean I agree. Um. What's the state of the airline industry then? Now, George, I mean, are we are we gonna see a Texas sized comeback or is it going to still be a while before the all important business traveler gets back on the bus. Well, apparently, United

things of Texas sized comeback coming. Uh. What what we see at Bloomberg Intelligence is we've had a really nice summer, I think, a better pop and leisure demand, and we thought we were going to get we're starting to see that transition into the fall where that leisure travelers starting to say to bit, I think their employers are asking to come back to the office and their kids are going to go back to school. Um. And so we're starting to see a little bit of a law to

build as we get into the fall. We think there's going to be a little bit of time before that business travel picks up again, because I think we've got to give these people back into offices and companies have to get up the curve on what travel policy is for business travel. Again, if you're going to Texas, they're open for business travel, but not everywhere in the world wants to take you for a lot of business meeting. Uh. And then so I think you'll take a time some

time to sether in business. Do you think you're gonna have a rougher for queue one que? Then you get back to a leisure bounce of the next summer and we'll continue to build business as we go through the year, which will improve things too. But again I think you're set for a little bit of a well here in the winter. All right, George, again, the news of today United buying a bunch of jets from Boeing. That's really good news for Boeing. It seems to me, what do

what do you make of it? Because I mean, you know United, it's obviously a huge global carrier and they're buying a lot of Max planes. Yes, so you know what what it tells me is we've been watching uh, you know, Bowing very closely because we've we've been a bit concerned about the ability to deliver airplanes at the rate they want to build in. They want to get the thirty one airplanes a month sevens. I'm talking by the beginning of and when we were looking at the

customer base and the challenges. One of the big challenges is China hasn't approved the Max yet, and they're always a source of a lot of demand for airplanes. We still have a bit of a trade tiff going on there and so we don't see that clearing up right away. I think it's become a big political India not letting the Max in. We were very concerned about how Bowing was going to build those thirty one and who they

were going to shift them to. It looks like the strategy of Bowing has been go back to your good customers, give them great deals, accelerate some of their existing orders, and build out the delivery sky and build out the

delivery skyline for three. So if you look at the way you know United to take I think some sixty eight airplanes in three, and think if you look at what's happening now, they're building out that base delivery levels they need for two and twenty three with some of the more important US customers, And that's that's really I think they've probably got a great deal. I think they probably brought Bowing to the table to negotiate a great deal and they said we got invite Airbus as well.

And then they picked up the eight three twenty one. Probably had a good price because because Bowling doesn't have a product in the line up, the matches the old seven fifty seven, uh you know specs and so that three twenty one does a seven five seven replacements for United. I like the big ones are we gonna see any more? That, you know? I like the seven. Um like a roomy a roomy ship. Are those done for? And we only got about twenty seconds left. Yeah, they are done for.

The good news is their chief and if you like them, go out and put in a big exactly. I was in the market for a Max seven business jet, but maybe I'll us buying old and have it retrofitted. George. Always great to get some time with you. Thank you so much for joining us out of Dallas. George ferguson their senior are space and defense and airlines analysts at a real life conference. This is Bloomberg. Thanks for listening

to the Bloomberg Markets podcast. You can subscribe and listen to interviews with Apple Podcasts or whatever podcast platform you prefer. I'm Matt Miller. I'm on Twitter at Matt Miller three. Pet On Ball Sweeney I'm on Twitter at pt Sweeney. Before the podcast, you can always catch us worldwide at Bloomberg Radio.