The Fed, Airlines, War, And Return-To-Work

rates are going up. Balance Sheet's gonna be watched. Just any minutes though, Okay, minutes that Jerome Powell said we're going to be important. You know, he recommended that we read these minutes. Really. Yeah, well, you don't have to do that for me, all right. That's get a little bit of a roundtable going here, Matt, because there's a lot to break down and when we think about this FEDER Reserve and what they're going to be doing for

the remainder this year into next. Former New York Fed President Bill Dudley joins us, as well as Blomberg Blues Editor in chief Matt Winkler joining us here in our Bloomberg and actor studio emeritus absolutely founder of a bloom creator exactly, Um, Bill, thanks so much for joining us via zoom here. You know, a lot of investors are saying, you know, I think the Fed is still behind the curve here, even if we're talking multiple rate hikes fifty

basis points here, fifty basis points there. What's your view? Of course, they're far far behind the Yelk curve, for far behind the curve in terms of tightening montary policy. Look at where short term indistrates are relative to inflation. Look at where short term ingistrates are relative to how tight the labor market is. The Fed basically says we want to be a neutral uh, and they're not even close to that. So they're going going to go very fast this year towards neutral over the next you know,

nine months. What is neutral, Bill, Well, neutral obviously does depend a bit on where inflation settles out. If the Fed was at their two percent inflation objective, then neutral be a brown two and a half percent in terms of not all short term interest rates. But if inflation is higher, neutral fire as well. So it's also going to be important where we see inflation settle out. Matt,

what do you think about? Um? It does seem that everyone's turned very hawkish and inflation, sorry, employment UM went from being questionable as to whether it's full now UM daily yesterday said it's tight, a very tight labor market.

So I think the best way to look at this from the Fed's perspective is if you take a look at their preferred monthly measure of inflation, which is the US Personal consumption expenditure core Price Index, which if you juxtaposed it with a thirty trillion dollar bond markets expectation of inflation, and uh, what that shows is tenure break even rate or yield gap between the benchmark treasury and

what we call treasury inflation protection securities are tips. The FED inflation measure shows us every day through yesterday, while the bond market anticipates all the days to come. And what we see is that between the second half of last year and today is an increase in inflation to five point four percent, the highest since bond investors, on the other hand, see inflation at about three percent. So

this is a record divergence. And I think you know, since Bill and I started talking about such things more than three decades ago, um, you look at something else that's relevant, which is the FED Zones Survey the February survey of consumer expectations, and it shows consumers anticipate inflation subsiding to three point eight percent in three years. Um. So you know, before you go any further, I would ask Bill he has said. You have said, Bill consistently

that the FED is behind the curve. So what's wrong with these pictures? The market is basically assuming that the FED is ultimately going to do their job. They may have gotten a late start, but they now are moving pretty rapidly in attaining direction of the market's view I think is that the federalis are will in fact get

this done. Um. I think that's probably right. I think the big risk though, to the downside, is that whenever the FED has had to tighten sufficiently to push the unemployer rate up, the US economy has always fallen into recession. I'm not looking for a recession anytime soon, because montre policy first has to get to be tight. But I do think that the chances of the FED pulling off the soft laying this time are very very low at this point. Wait, so you don't see a recession in

the next, say, twelve to eighteen months. It's retainly not in the next twelve months. The US economy has a lot of momentum behind it as we're as we're going into the opening up stage. So you've seen seeing the strength and payil employment over the last few months. We also have an imbalanced in a lot of areas between demand and supply where demand ex seeds supply. So even if the FED knocks back demand a little bit, supply is going to continue to recover as supply chains are normalized.

And so I think it's quite a bit of momentum over the next twelve months or so. It's I think there's a recession coming. I don't think it's in the near room. And that's, by the way, consistent. You know, if you look at the Bloomberg's own survey of fifty seven economists, and it shows no consensus for that outcome a recession at least before the fourth quarter of And

you can see that. We have a table that shows the average GDP forecast for each quarter in the next eight quarters ranges from two point three percent to four and a half percent, and even the lowest forecast and the eight quarters that we're talking about ranges from half a percent to three point two percent. So in other words, the worst of these scenarios, which we've compiled, doesn't anticipate a recession. And you've written about the strength of corporate

America as well. I think a couple of columns ago you had had been quoting the Business round Table, UM and also the most recent earnings releases saying that you know, companies are looking to hire more than they ever have before. That's absolutely right. Um. You know, if you went to the Business round Table, which is the two if you like, most prominent companies c e O s, and they said they anticipated this year hiring more people than they have in the past two decades, which is saying a lot.

And then if you look at something like debt ratios of American companies, even with all the record corporate borrowing that we've seen because interest rates have been so low, the debt ratios show that companies are actually very healthy. So it's not like we're coming out of, if you will, the financial crisis, which Bill is all too familiar with, because and consumers back and consumer balance sheets are healthy as well. So I mean, Bill, it's safe to say

there will be a recession someday. But what pushes us in to a recession. Um. You know, even if the FED raises aggressively, we're going from uh um as close to zero as as damn it. I think the English would say um and uh. You know if the neutral rate is where where? Where you think when you think the neutral rate is um right now? Well, again it depends on where you think recession is. But would you hazard a guess? And you know, I think I think neutral today is probably you know, three and a half

ish because inflation is above the fence two objective. I think the problem for the FET is this, whenever the ft, the FET needs to make the labor market looser. If it's going to actually get control of inflation, to make the labor market looser, it has to tighten sufficiently to push the unemployer rate up. Whenever the FET has pushed the unemployer rate up, it's been very difficult to control how much. Every time that has happened, the US economy

has ultimately ended in recession. So don't get me wrong. The FEEN is going to try for a soft land. That's what they're going to try for, and of course they have to do that if they're going to try to control inflation. The problem is almost always, they overdo it and the commy dips into recession. So if you

don't mind, Bill, let's let's go back in time. You probably we have as much experience with inflation and deflation in our time as any economists, And during your leadership at the New York Fed, you persistently defended quantitative using when so many critics derided KEWI as irresponsibly inflationary and

a debasement of the dollar. The critics were wrong. When Janet Yellen became FED chair in two thousand fourteen, unemployment and the labor participation rate we're still in emic, she said, and you agreed with her at that time that the economy needed to run a little hot to get to an optimal job market. So just last Friday, we learned

US gained four hundred and thirty one thousand jobs. In March, unemployment felt at three point six percent average big as we average hour le earnings registered to five point six percent increase from the same period last year, and the labor participation rate rose significantly. So I guess, Bill, why is Brad DeLong wrong when he said recently it's time

for another victory lap led by the Fed. Well, they deserve a victory lap in terms of getting generating as strong I cannot recovery and getting us back to full employment quickly. The problem now, though, is that they're behind in terms of where they need to be related to what the labor market is. If the FIG wants to sustain the economic expansion, it's gonna keep inflation under control. And to keep inflation under control, they have to tighten

Monterrey policy. So I think the problem for the FED here was that they adopted a monterrey policy framework that the operationalized by saying we're not gonna even begin to lift off until we've actually reached to percent inflation, where confident inflation is gonna be both two percent in the

future and we're confident that we're at full employment. So we find ourselves in this unusual circumstance at the time where Monterrey policy needs to be neutral or tight, the fit still is on a very very accommodative monetary setting. Big today between where the fit should be and where it is. How much of this match is about monetary policy because there was such a huge fiscal impetus. When Bill says the FED did a great job getting us

back to full employment. It seems to me the five six trillion dollars that the US government spent was also helpful. And I noticed yesterday in the Esther George interview that Michael McKee did she said, um, you know, the fiscal impetus is gonna wane here. Well, that's definitely true. I mean, and there's been considerable discussion about to what extent did

the Relief Act last year have on inflation? And there are plenty of economists who say not that much, um, And you know, Frankly uh to credit Bill, he has been very consistent, going back at least a couple of years and saying the Fed really needs to get on the escalator um, and that we are going to see you know, higher interest rates. It's just a question of when. But they have to get there. So I'm not so sure it's so much a fiscal issue here with respect

to inflation. It's more the latter coming out of you know, this expansion and uh, you know, interest rates and you have to come up. So that's kind of where I wanted to go, Bill. I mean, the inflation that I experience, I'm sure many Americans experience. It's at the gas pump. It's at the supermarket, it's maybe the local deli um. But a lot of that is just supplying demand in an economy. We I've got a global reopening economy. I've got these crazy supply chain issues that are vexing all

types of industries. In that scenario, what can the FED really do in terms of inflation, Well, the supply chains did that. That has to be has to be patient. But the problem we have with inflation now it's not just about supply chain disruptions, because we've seen the inflation

pressure broadened out. So if you look at, for example, the Cleveland fled or the Dallas that that have measures of median CPI trim mean uh, they basically show that the pressures are now much broader than they were earlier. So it's not just the question of use car prices going up because there's chip shortages that are inhibiting new car production. Is much broader then think you know, the

wage trend I think is also relevant here. You know, if you act yourself, what wage inflation rate is consistent with two percent inflation? You wouldn't pick five and a half to six percent. You pick something in the probably the three or four percent Rang, So the wage trend already is higher than what's consistent with two percent inflation.

I do wish the FED could somehow get General Motors to produce more Sierra fift hundred, you know, a T four x is if the FED could just supply them with the microchips, you know, maybe the price increase has been insane. By the way, I've come back just a few months ago, I've been looking at trucks, and trucks that were fifty five thousand dollars in January became sixty dollars in February. Now there's sixty five dollars. This is new m s r P. It's unbelievable. But there's not

much the FED can really do about that. Matt Well, what the Fed we'll pay attention to us they should is expectations. And the one variable here that is somewhat encouraging is that we are not seeing yet built into this market the expectation like we did in the seventies, that everything is going to go up um and our behavior is measured by that. We're not there yet. So will we get there? Do you think? Hopefully not? Billy Bill, We're gonna get to that spot I mean, I mean,

I think, I think Matth exactly right. That is the positive in the in the outlook is that inflation expectations are still pretty well anchored. And you could argue that's actually a little bit of a surprise. I mean, if you sort of looked at what's actually happening to in terms of inflation and how slow the FIT has been to react, it's quite striking that market participants in households and businesses still are comfortable that the FETE is ultimately

going to do their job. This is precisely what you've been writing, Matt. Well, yeah, it could be a semantic discussion, but I've been saying that it's kind of hard for me to accept the fact that when the FETE is data dependent, which means that the data changes, the FED changes, that it's behind the curve, and Bill and the majority of economists say no, no, no, no no, no, they're behind the behind the curve. All right, that's fantastic, Bill Dudley,

thank you so much for joining us. Former New York Fed President Bill Dudley and Bloomberg News Editor in chief emeritus founder of Bloomberg News Matt wink with joining us here in our Bloomberg Interactive Broker Studio. Fascinating discussion on what we're gonna see from this photo reserve going forward again. Fo MC meetings Meeting minutes will be released today two pm Wall Street time. Time to get the update that

I think we all need on Ukraine. It is a fluid situation, certainly in some of the images coming out of parts of Ukraine are very very disturbing. Let's bringing Amor Hordern, Washington correspondent for Bloomberg Television and Marie thanks so much for joining us here. It feels what's the I guess I'll just step back and say what's really the latest thinking from Washington, d C About how this situation in the Ukraine can go, will go, and maybe

how we should be continuing to engage well. Jake Sullivan recently had a briefing, was saying that they see some practical changes and in Russia and that there's going to be a focus more on eastern and southern Ukraine specifically, especially making sure they can maintain that stronghold in Luhansk and don Yesk. But what is very clear, and you just need to turn your television or open up Twitter to see, is that the assault on the Russian cities

and the attacks on civilians. It's not just Bucha, it's Mario pol It's a number of cities that continues every day, and so it continues in a nasty, nasty way. And I know the atrocities are we are alleging that Russians committed atrocities. They're saying that the photographic and video evidence has been faked somehow. Um. But our Western government's prepared to really take the final step. We can say we're

not going to buy any coal from Russia anymore. That's easy because we don't want coal and we have enough coal ourselves. Um. But saying for Germany to say we refused to pay hundreds of billions for natural gas, that's that's a big step to take. It would be a big step to take. And also are they prepared to take that step in the sense that not just morally prepared, which I think they wished they were at uh or they are at excuse me, but in terms of the infrastructure,

I think they wished they were there. Because Shulton said today the German Chancellor, that what is going on and the image of that a Busha, these are war crimes. So you do see Germany wanting to wratch it up that pressure and really hurt Russia. For what is going on the issue is they're just way to rely on. What we can potentially see is individual European states coming out and unilaterally going further. I know Lithuania is tiny,

but they did this themselves. Potentially, maybe you'll see other Baltic trees do this themselves, because it's going to take a while to get all twenty seven European countries to agree on this, right well, and most of them are so small that it doesn't matter. Right. Germany is the biggest economy in Europe m eighty million people and they gets I think sixty of their energy needs from Russian gas. So the idea is they're willing to hurt Russia, but

they're not willing to hurt themselves yet. Um. You know. The the interesting thing is the Ukrainians would ask, why you know you're watching these atrocities, why haven't you done more like at least give us a no fly zone, right And NATO's response is, well, we don't want to directly engage Russia because there goes World War three. Um, you have been really excellent in your coverage of Mikhail Kardarkowski. For those who don't know, he was once Russia's richest man.

He was a billionaire who ran Yukos oil and he was politically opposed to Putin. Um that didn't go well. He was accused of tax evasion to the tune of something like billion and then spent ten years in a gulag Um. Now he's out, and he's very vocal about um. Obviously his criticism of Vladimir Putin. But he said something really interesting yesterday, which is that the West is already engaged with Russia, at least from Putin's perspective. Kodakovski says,

we're already. He thinks the West is already in a war against him. Yes, Michel Kolkowski is very interesting to talk to you, because you really can understand the thinking of the Russian elite and also the thinking of President Putin the Kremlin. And he says, from Putin's eyes, the United States Western allies already at war with Russia. And he says the same mistake that the West does not realized and they do not understand that. That is Putin's perspective.

And a lot of the time when you hear from Western leaders is you know, we will defend NATO every single inch. But this is almost a nuance that doesn't even filter into Putin's mind. He already thinks he's there and he's fighting a war with America. And if you look at any Russian state TV, that is also the sense that you get that this is a US backed war,

Western backed war against Russia and Ukraine. So, Henry, what's the feeling in Washington these days about next steps for the US and maybe the US as it relates to NATO. Is there any consensus as to what we should do? I guess next, more, better, bigger. Well, just in the past hour we got a brief on the latest sanctions, so still more economic sanctions and those included a full blocking sanctions on Spur Bank, which is Russia's biggest bank, as well as ALFA Bank. But again they include energy

carve out. So it really comes full circle to the start of this conversation with winners Germany and Europe going to get on board with or be able to block Russian oil and gas. He also we also have sanctions on Putin's two adult children, Catherina and Maria. Interesting enough, Putto has gone through great lengths his entire life to really cloud them in secrecy. Uh so, quite symbolic, but also very personal, and also a ban on investments in Russia.

But just to take it back to Miyaw Karakowski, because I spent more than an hour with him yesterday and he's in Washington meeting with officials as well. He says that Putin is not afraid of sanctions. Sanctions alone cannot to ter Putin. And the idea of going after the oligarch, you know, makes sense, but the presumption that they can have a change on Putin is just not there. And maybe the West thinks that could happen, but he says that is just not how Russia works. It is a

complete dictatorship. Some have said that, you know, these sanctions aren't so much to deter Putin has to make the West feel better about ourselves, right, Yeah, interesting to say. It's a very difficult situation. And Re Hordern, thank you

so much for joining us. We love getting your perspective from Washington, d C. And Re Hoarder, and Washington correspondent for Bloomberg Television, has a story out on the Bloomberg terminal with her interview of that ex oligarch from Russia who Henry's set is in Washington making the rounds there. So I appreciate getting her perspective. There. There's m and A activity, there's a consalination going on in the airline

business today. Got Jet Blue taking a look um at the business as well, looking to make a bid for Spirit. George Ferguson the fourth, by the way, senior Aerospace, Defense and Airlines Annos with Bloomberg Intelligence joins us. So from your military intelligence to Bloomberg Intelligence exactly. So yeah, George was in the army and military intelligence. That tells you all we need to know about our military. As I always say, George, thanks so much for joining us here.

What's jet Blues? What's strategy here? Why does it want to own uh Spirit Airlines? Yes to thank for having me yet, um so I really think you know Jet Blue has spent you know a number of years, um, a lot of years from on the periphery of the business. Right there's uh, you know the main carriers you have. You know you have American, United, Delta, the big full service carriers got you got the Southwest and Jet Blue and Alaska have had this smaller role in the marketplace.

I think Jet Blue is looking at Spirit and Frontier getting together, thinking about how rough that's going to be on competition, thinking about where their position in the industry is, maybe even the ability to grow, because their order book just is in as as large as Spirits and Frontiers um a couple of years into the future, and they're thinking this is their opportunity to try to get in the mix, because otherwise they're gonna be fighting against a

really intense competitor of a combined Spirit and in Frontier. George, how much competition is really allowed in the US market. When I um lived here, I didn't think about it much. I moved to Germany, back to Germany in two thousand and sixteen, spent six years there, and I've just come back and I realized, Um, I thought, why did I travel so much in Europe? Every weekend? I was in Rome, I was in Paris, I was in Madrid, I was

all over the place. And the reason is plane tickets who were like sometimes twenty euros, you know, but they weren't more than a hundred euros in any direction usually, And here in the US that's just not the case. Not by a long shot is that how has that competition been stifled here? Yeah, so the US has been a more consolidated market than the rest of the world, especially sort of Europe. Actouldn't say the best world then

Europe um. And you know, I think you're both has a different phenomena where there's more vacation, and so if you got five or six weeks of vacation to take more trips, like Matt doesn't, you know you yeah, like

Matt does. And you know, Matt, you you wanted to spend fifty euros of the flight and spend the rest of the money in Barcelona rather than spending on the flight where Americans kind of get two to three weeks, they might do one flight a year, um, you know, And and they're kind of, I think, willing to pay a little more. Although Spirit in Frontier are the ones testing that model right there, testing the idea that Americans might people might desire to pay a lot less and

get less in their flight but there's less. Do you do you think that consumer behavior could be different post pandemic? You know, we've seen things like the Great Resignation, which we're still trying to figure out. Is it possible that consumers are like, you know what, I'm I'm working from home now or some kind of hybrid model. I'm I'm demanding thirty days off a year, and I'm gonna travel. I'm gonna go see the Grand Canyon. I'm gonna go

to Joshua Tree on shrooms or whatever. And I mean, they're gonna be taking more flights, I think, so, I hope so. I think the other big part of this is um. I mean, because look, first, we do have to change some of the US employer behavior to give you a little more time off or I guess we all call it working from homes are flying somewhere, which I guess. You know, if WiFi is good enough in

the airplane, maybe you get away with that. But the other big thing that we're looking at is just that the consumer pocketbook is going to be pressured here right The price of fuel is um, you know, fuel and heating oil and uh, it's gonna ripple through your economy is just astronomical right now. And that's going to pressure their pocketbook. And so the consumer is going to go out and say I want to go on vacation, but

I'm I can't spend a lot of money getting there. Oh, look at Spirit in Frontier, whatever the combined company might be called. If it gets done. Oh, they've got a flight for forty dollars, I'll do that, right. I can suck up the fact that I'm not going to get any recline on my seat on the on the weight of vegas or something like that. So that's the challenge. The consumer is going to be pressured here, and that's why that's a really interesting thing about this merger or sorry,

this this purchase of jet Blue. Jet Blue wants to take Spirit and turn it into jet Blue. Now, look, I think jet Blue's got a great product, but I think that the consumer is again pressured. Consumer is going to say, just give me the cheapest ticket price, not giving me give me you know, aircs love to talk about sort of the quality of the product, the product experience. People just want to get there. Then they want to

have fun. And I think that's that's the interesting part of this is that jet Blue wants to turn Spirit into jet Blue, which I think will be very challenging. George thirty seconds. Does this deal get past the regulators. I do think it will get past regulars. I don't think any of these airlines are so important to the US economy. You have so much market share anywhere that it can't get done. All right, George, good stuff. Appreciate that.

George Ferguson, Senior Aerospace, Defense and Airline annalys from Bloomberg Intelligence. He's been coming in stocks for decades. Back to work, getting back to the office. New York businesses, they're figuring out how to go. You're bringing people back how many days? Well, when they deal with that, They've also got some new legislation that they have to think about in terms of whistleblower protections. Some new legislation coming there as well as

disclosing salaries for external and internal job posting. So some new regulations coming. Question is how will some of these businesses deal with that. We welcome, Rania said Home, managing partner of the set Home Law Group. So Rania talked to us about some of the this new legislation that employers and employees in New York need to deal with. Thanks for having me on the show. Thanks so much. Well, the whistle Blower Act is actually retroactive to January, and

it may come as a surprise for many. We were all scrambling, you know, to start this new year hopefully COVID free. And we might have missed this one, but the whistleblower protections in New York have it expanded, and now it protects employees who complain about any actual or suspected violation of any law. Prior to January two, they would only have whistle lower protection if their complaints related to a specific danger or public health and safety. So

there's truly no exception at this point. The only uh, you know, argument that an employer can make if they fire someone who complained is that, uh, there was no reasonable belief about what the employee was complaining about. We have to wait and see what that means. It's so interesting. First of all, I have a few friends named Brownia, So you do. Yes, okay, so that's great, Thank you

so much. Second second of all, um, so we've really seen, or you know, Bloomberg News been writing about a shift towards labor the likes of which we haven't seen in decades. And I know when you were at Syracuse you were the editor of the Labor Lawyer, um and a digest there, so you um do labor law. Do you agree that we've seen a big shift towards the rights of workers. I do see this shift, and I see more coming.

I don't have a crystal ball, but I have intuition, and I think there's going to be more and more of a shift. And I think you negotiations are going to be more aggressive, um, you know, toward the labor side. I think employers need to gear up. We hear more and more stories Uh, Amazon, the the union, UM want to vote their Starbucks. UM. And these aren't you know, nationwide. These are in specific areas. But we also have seen UM average hourly wages continue to rise. Um. And Paul

was just talking about disclosure rules. So what's the story. Now They companies have to disclose what they're paying to employees who come into the office as opposed to employees who work from home. No. Effective May fourteen, New York City employers, not New York State, just New York City. Now the law changed slightly, actually two days ago. Now it applies to those employers who employ at least fifteen employees.

Whenever you post an advertisement, whether it's internal or external, for any of available job, you have to provide the salary range for that job, and failure to do so is going to be deemed an unlawful discriminatory practice and comes with a fine of up two I see so internal external meaning like inside of work, outside of work. I mean, if my manager sends around a group email and says we're looking for a new director of East Coast Operations, Um, she has to then include the salary

range if they've done so for an external posting. Uh, you have to do it for both listings. But yes, your your analogy is correct. By the way, in terms of working from home, Paul and I were talking about this earlier. Um, if you work in New York, you gotta pay New York City taxes. And a lot of people who used to work in New York City offices now telecommute in from Connecticut or New Jersey or Florida

or Texas. Do those people have to pay New York City income taxes since they're not physically coming to this place, even if um, you know, they remote into computers at on Manhattan Island. The employees income tax is going to be based upon their residents. I don't know if these employees have changed their residents officially or not, but uh,

that's on them. But the employer may have to register to do business in a state that there are otherwise not registered to do business and because of this telecommuter that they have. Interesting. So, Ronnie, when you talk to your clients, is it is hybrid the way it's going to be going forward? You know, I still hear they're prepping for that, some Goldman Sachs executives trying to hold steady. No, you've got to be in the office every single day,

blah blah blah. Bank you American workers to come back in June. But what do you what do you see from your clients. I think a lot of my clients and just um, you know other business owners who I know who are friends, they're worried that if they proclaim that it's a five day in office work week that they'll lose employees. And so several of them are easing into returning to work and having a hybrid workplace. One is because again they're afraid that they'll lose their employees.

And two there's still some uncertainty with the pandemic and they don't need any liability. But I think ultimately we are going to go back to, you know, in office work because it's easier to collaborate and when everybody is working from home, it's different than if we're in a meeting and two people are on the phone or on zoom whatever people are using, and everyone else is in the conference room. Um, I can understand that. Although I I can understand, I can imagine a future in which

we all um work in the metaverse. I know, using that term makes it sound weird, I know, but you know what, try and think of it as a like a zoom call where we that we all go to and then we can all walk from our zoom desk to the zoom cafeteria or to the zoom you know coat room. I mean, it doesn't seem that strange to me. I wonder how the legal issues change when you go from uh an in office work situation to one where we all work in the cloud. Well, there are several

you know, things that will arise. For example, you know, workers compensation insurance. It's mandatory and uh it's based upon where the employee is working, doesn't even matter whether where their residence is. So I could have decided to go to Hawaii and work from there during the pandemic, my company would have to purchase workers compensation for me in Hawaii, and then there are all of these issues surrounding well, you know, what happened to you, what injury happened, and

was it work related? And was it during work hours? And as we've heard several people say, working from home is convenient on one hand, but inconvenience on the other hand, because there's a blurry of what is what am I doing for work? On what am I doing for myself? There's also you know, unemployment insurance, you'd have to purchase it wherever it is a person is working again. And then uh employee reimbursements. This you know, varies from state

to state how aggressive the reimbursement policies are. For example, in some states you have to pay a portion of your employees electricity bill and internet bill because that's your new office. So there are a lot of things to consider, and that's why I think as these things percoate, we're not everybody's gonna have to figure it out. Everybody's got to figure it out, all right. Ronnie, thank you so much for joining us, Ronnie set Home, Managing Partner, set

Home a Law Group. Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg Markets podcast. You can subscribe and listen to interviews of Apple Podcasts or whatever podcast platform you prefer. I'm Matt Miller. I'm on Twitter at Matt Miller seventy three. And I'm fall Sweeney. I'm on Twitter at pt Sweeney. Before the podcast, you can always catch us worldwide at Bloomberg Radio