Streaming Trends, Market Forecast, Ford Mach-E Price Cut

He is the CEO of Mountain m n T n UH, and we bring him in to talk about all things tech really on the on the com side, on the streaming side, and Adam all lined up to talk about Netflix and what I feel like is a turnaround and sentiment there as well as Google. They're getting sued by the Department of Justice and it's going to be a jury trial. Holy Comoley could be the first breakup since mob El. Remember that that can't happen. I don't think so either. But um, let's talk to Mark first about

the tech sector in general. Mark, we have these big earnings coming out this week, Amazon, Alphabet and Apple, UM and everyone is expecting this earning sea to be horrendous, So executives might even take advantage. We thought of this earning season to throw in the kitchen sink and get everything out of the way. You know, are all their dirty laundry. It hasn't been that bad, has it. It hasn't.

I think, um, this is an interesting place win right now because normally, if you look back at all the previous downturns, it's like this is herd mentality where everyone like when rushes to the next thing, Like when if you go back to two thousand when the tech sector crash, then everyone ran that by houses and then you know, it's like this herd. But right now the herd is just kind of grazing, just all kind of standing around,

not knowing where to go or what to do. So things are neither like going up nor they like crashing that hard. Everyone's waiting for you know, what am I supposed to do now? And nobody seems to know. I think what I'm hearing from some tech analysts is tech spending is still gonna go row intercessionary environment. It's just gonna grow at a lower rate than we've been used to.

Is that kind of how you see? It was on fire over the last It's very hard to forecast revenue in a tech company right now, because your customers don't even know what they want, what they're going to spend. So I know from my company, like our customers normally tell us that by in December what their plans are for Q one. Most of them didn't even know until like third week of January. That is still trying to

figure it out. So it's really hard to forecast. So I think you're gonna see forecasts be pretty soft, but it's an opportunity for overachievement. Everyone's going to be kind of kind of the other um, you know, the other thread that we can pull from tech has been labor. They've been firing all the excess workers that they rushed higher over the last year and a half two years. Where do you think we are there? I mean, the question is a lot of people think they're gonna fire

too many people. UM obviously hired too many people. But can't they run with a surplus of employees? Well, I think some people would say Ellen, Elon Musk obviously, if you say Elon Musk, other Elons, Yeah, whoever that is. I think a lot of people would say Ellen proved that maybe a lot of tech companies have over hired since you know, but nothing has changed since he essentially cut eighty percent of the staff or our parts of eighty percent of staff. I talked to people, and some

of these big Twitter you mean yea Twitter. I talked to some people, you know, people at some of the big companies I do, big tech companies do wonder what do you do for a living at this time at this company? So there's there's definitely fat. If you guys see some of the videos that post away, people say the day in the life of working at Google and and I saw one the other day and the person got laid off a weekly. So there's there's fat to cut on in allge So there's still more pink slift

to come. I don't know. And we haven't seen that kind of firing. No, no, this is definitely I mean what you know, everyone knows we're kind of in a in a downward you know, the market crash. Everything's going down, but um, it's going to go back up. Also, I I talked to some like people who manage um trillions of dollars, like some of the biggest equity firms in the world, and they seem like they're really anxious to put money back in the stock market, and and if

they do, the market is going to go up. So I think they're people are ready to get back in. They just want stability before they mark. What are you hearing from some of the digital advertising players out there? You know, we're gonna hear from Facebook and Google and uh and some of the other's Amazon of course this week. How tough is it out there in the digital ad

space if if you're not in the growth sectors? Pretty tough. So, um, my company were in performance television with returning TV into this direct response at channel and so if we look at our customer as we already have, they're they're covering, you know, they're not really increasing or decreasing. So but we have all this growth from new customers coming into the market. If you don't have that trend of a lot of new customers, it's it's are you guys playing

in the in the streaming the ad supported streaming business? Exactly? Yeah, we're turning streaming television into essentially add words for for TV and that's where the incremental AD dollars are going. Are they going to Peacock versus NBC? Are they're going to Paramount Plus versus the cps, Well, they're just going into I think streaming in general. I think I think it's television after you know, it's kind of almost one

of the first like traditional ad channels. And now for the first time in what is it seven eight decades, it's now like this full digital marketing channels. So it's become a growth set. It's it's become a growth sector again. And I think all the TV networks, but especially like NBC at Comcast, um Disney Plus and Hulu. You know those companies that are really obviously Netflix now with their ad business, they're you know, they're those companies that really

have the dollars to investment. They are going to benefit the most. Does Google own the marketplace for ads, for digital ads, no matter where you're going to advertise, no matter who's buying the ads. Do they own that? Is that the problem with the well they own? They own search. I think I'm glad you brought that up. But just in general, a little known fact is that for the first time, Google and Meta like don't have less than half the march, so the rest of the market is

actually growing. I mean, on the whole Google lawsuit thing, I think that it's UM not directed with the real action is the analogy I would use is what they're suing them over the tools, like the software that serves an AD. So that's like going after a company because they have a dominant position in hammers where the real action is, well, they have all the data and where people are going to move to. That's where the real access.

Google has just a massive amount of data. Know, Google knows I'm here right now, right because I have Google Maps in my pocket. But we're gonna sue him over the hammers, like it makes no sense. And I think this one after al Capone for Taxia, Yeah, exactly, that works. So I think this um the government going after them is not actually going to have much of an impact because where the real action is is the data privacy

legislation around the data. All privacy legislation makes Google, Meta, Apple and Amazon essentially even stronger because it goes after anonymous data while they have like your personal identity, and so they get to continue to use the personal data while everyone else's market. That's a big player on TikTok, he's all over that platform. Talks about TikTok, What do

you tell us what's the future of TikTok. Uh, Well, it's i there's so many people using it, it's not going to be banned in the United States that I was thinking, Yeah, that ships sail. I mean Trump years ago tried to bring up this issue and everyone was like, well if Donald Trump spring it up, we're not gonna listen that. You know, they have all of the status an open mic in every living room. But um TikTok is doing extremely well. I don't see it diminishing in

any way in the near future. So they are crushing it. And what about Netflix. I mean, this was last year the market beat it down like a redheaded step child. And I nothing against Gingers. I am a step child myself. So but now it seems like sentiment is really shifted, especially after the last Earns report they added seven and a half million subscribers. Yeah, I mean the market is just up and down on in general, but on Netflix in particular. Thing about Netflix, just through the math. Let's

say they're average subscriptions like twelve dollars. They have two hundred and forty million subscribes. It's like three billion dollars a month coming in and people like, yeah, but they missed you know, subscriber numbers by hundred thousands. Yeah, but they got three a billion dollars in three billion dollars a month. It's just overreactions, possibly in both directions. Overreacted in terms of downward sentiment and possibly a little bit

and upward sentiment. And we got some new management there, so we'll see how that plays out. YEA, so good stuff. Mark Douglas, President and CEO of Mountain, joining us in our Bloomberg Interactive Broker Studio giving us the latest on all things tech and all things digital advertising. Quincy Crosby joints us here. She's a chief Global strategist for lp L Financial. That's a nastact treated firm lp L. A is it took her load into your Bloomberg terminal, Quincy,

A lot to digest here this week. What's most important to you? What's your gonna what's gonna be your focus this week? Simply because we had a strong rally. Volume was good on the rally, and the rally was cyclically oriented for the most are. Now granted you we can dismiss the rally. We can say it was you know, short covering UH traders going in and taking advantage of

the tax claws only in in you know. Uh. But nonetheless you started to see volume pickup in rally, and it was a rally that suggested that the market is looking ahead of everything. You know, we always would say the market gets news worked. Anyway, February tends to be a month where the market is tends to actually say, have these rallies, um dissipate. It's probably the worst month

for the market next to September. So we're gonna watch very closely how these big tech names do because the waiting in the indextions, it's just them that these are the big tech guys. We're gonna see if they can if they can garner any interest from traders at least and certainly investors. All Right, so, um, what are you looking forward to see to prove that this rally really

has legs? Quincy? I mean, what are some signs? I was just looking at the break down of um, the industrial groups that have won and lost this year, and you've got all the you know, consumer discretionary and tech companies that have done well. Meanwhile, consumer staples and um, you know, utilities have done poorly. So it looks like

the defensive are getting sold off. And the um You know, the growth companies are are putting up some gains, but I guess that could be explained by the short covering narrative. So what do we need to see UM two ensure us that this rally is solid. Well, what one thing

would be I look at the semiconductors. They are the they are the consummate dull weather for global growth, and they've been they've actually the days that they've been outperforming even the the growth growth nas the gross the growth residence, so to speak. We'll say if they can hold, obviously then they sell off, but we'll see if they can hold. It's very important that they participate, uh in a rally

and stay strong. You know. The other thing that we're going to look at is on a technical basis, is whether or not going through the obstacle course of this week their earnings obstacle course the said statement his press conference, then you know Friday's payroll report and see where wages are, how they're moving. Is whether or not this market an

a rally. If it does rally, can actually cross forty that is, you know, one of the most important levels for the market, and it's been difficult obviously for this market to launch an absolute attack on quincy. Tough, tough for everybody out there and the equity biz in the fixed income markets as you start oute, what are you telling your clients in terms of positioning here after such

a tough year. Well, you know, we're trying to figure out obviously, whether or not the market has discounted a recession. Is it an earnings recession? Is that a rolling recession is going to be a shallow recession. Our view at LPL researches that will be fairly shallow. That's with all the information we have now. However, one thing that we have now it's not just about equities. We've got the sixth income market and we're looking at it and investing

in it. The treasury market is offering very attractive return, guaranteed return, and investment grade corporates as well. We also sawt we're not advocating this, but we've seen money going into high yield. Who whatever thought, you know, if all of these dire headlines, money would go into high yield. But those are the ones who think we're not going to have a recession, will be a soft or soft

just landing. But the point is that companies when out and borrowed during the period when money was so easy and rates were so low, so that their balances, their cash balances are strong. And right now these companies are still you know, making certain that they cut costs when they have to and that you know, they're going to manage costs going into three, especially if there is a recession. So we're saying investment grade corporate, we're saying the treasury

that can help the portfolio. And also on the equity side, we're looking at dividends. This is crucial, we think for this market. And you know, some of the sectors are doing well. Take a look at the industrials today, they're up. Granted, the the defense names are helping to underpin the the industrials along with machinery. So there are pockets in the market that are still attractive, attractively valued, especially after sell off such as we had in the defense names, but

they're coming back today. So again, until there is more certain in terms of where we are headed and whether or not the market is actually discounted even a percentage of a possibility of that you know, final final deep sell off, we want the clients to be uh certain, careful, conservative Quincy. Just want to ask before you came to Wall Street, you spent a lot of time at diplomatic postings around the world. Uh. You served as Assistant Secretary of Commerce and also UM as Energy attached at the

US Embassy in London. UM, what do you think about the reopening of China and the kind of I guess, the the spat that seems to be, you know, mellowing out between the US and China right now. How is that going to drive the market this year? You know obviously that this is you know, a major event. Is the world's second largest economy. And it was interesting that when they announced the final lift of the zero COVID policy, we the countries that country indexes that've got a booth

were none other than Germany, France, Italy. These are that these are the strongest trading partners in the West with China, not necessarily the US. So the question becomes whether or not this um, you know, multilateral approach that let received from China around the world trying to shore up uh, you know, positive on the bilateral front, good feelings and so on, even with the United States, But whether or not it masks UM. You know, the issue on Taiwan.

And the other issue is regarding selling of any kind of technology that helps the military. Their military has grown, is grown faster than our military. Take a look at the naval components. It's it's larger than than the the US and even today, I mean speaking of you know, Europe, the US is been pushing the Netherlands with a SML but you know it's it is a chip mak, right, it's a manufacturer ships. Uh. Finally they have come out and said they're going to be more cheerful with their

sales to China. They're going to you know, trying to break off some of the parts that would go right into laws. Um. Yeah, so that is not going away. And you know, and by the way, it is in the US across the aisles, Democrats and Republicans, this is an area where they agree they do to be sot on China. One of the very few. Quincy, thanks so much for joining us. Quincy Crosby there. She is chief

global strategist at LPL Financial. Joining us to talk about what to expect in the markets after this rally that we've seen and throughout the rest of the year. Let's talk stocks right now. Ted Oakley founder managing partner of ox Bow Advisors, joins us Ted. I mean brutal year for equities, also for fixed income as well. What do you what's the message you went out to your clients with when you were kind of saying, all right, let's get ready for well, I think you know what we

did in twenty two was we were extremely defensive. You know, we were fifty uh cash or short term treasuries primarily. So while but your your clients don't your clients don't mind you being in that much cash. Well, we were getting you gotta remember now, it's not that it's not Tina anymore. You can get you can get four and a half percent or four sixty five right now and even a three months and so we do a lot with the floating right treasuries, but that's just a holding

spot for us UM. And then this year coming into it, we just don't have I mean, we have a lot of stocks on the two D probably a two hundred stock screen we have, but none of those are they're just not in evaluation areas where we want to come by can we own stocks? But the stocks we've alreadyo owned, but we're not buying too many things. You know, right at this point other than some income oinants, we are

buying another portfolio. What are the levels that you're watching for, and um, what do you think it's gonna take for

us to get down back down there again? Because we've had pretty a pretty enthusiastic rally we have and I will tell you it reminds me of the January of oh one, two thousand one, you know, in the matter markets seld Off hard nasdac uh you know, during two thousand and came back at the end of the year, had a good month in January, and then the rest of the year of NAZAC getting a lower by far

of a lot of that. And so we're sort of and people they talked about, you know, two thousand nine eleven, but acts of the market was lower before and ended up the year like that. So anyway, go to back to your question what we're looking for. If you say we're gonna do two hundred dollars on the SMP, I know everybody's at two twenty five and all that, but we think two hundred would be the best might be. And so if you put yeah, put you know, if you look at two hundred, it's only twelve or cent

below estimates. It's not that far. So if you do two hundred and you take you know, you're take an SMP at calling four thousand sixty, you're almost at twenty multiple right now. And that's not where you get your best buys ever, And so that's kind of where we're looking at it. I think that's I think that's yet to come. And and I said, well, we'll see. I guess that's that's what makes a horse race. But that's where we are right now. So you know, this is

gonna be a busy week TED four earnings. We've got a hundred nine SPI companies reporting here. Um, do you think we're gonna start seeing some big revisions downward in earnings guidance from a lot of these companies. Well, you should. But one of the things that we've noticed so much the last five years really is they've been allowed to get away with so much in the way of accruals and all these adjustments to gap earnings that you have

to look through a lot of it. But I think if you looked at an acremement the real cash earnings, yes, I think those are some of those are gonna have to be revised down for sure. So what are some of the sectors here? I mean, I mean, as you sit here with the high levels of cash, when you do get ready to deploy, where do you think you'll you'll put it? Will it be in some of the defensive names where you try to get back into growth. Where do you think the play is going to be? Well,

we have a mix. We have a mixed now. But if you look at our favorite companies, you know they're gonna be companies that can go through a tough procession period. If you take Visa and MasterCard, you know they have enough cash in a quarter almost to pay off all the debt um and and if you inflate people use cards, you know, the prices go up, people use cards more.

We think two other things like that. You know, obviously you know we like uh, some defensive names O'Riley, you know, a health And then we you know, we on the we on the oils, we on gas pipelines, um. And we particularly like the oil wyalties because you don't have the capital investment. And so we think we mix all those together and come up with a pretty good, you know, pretty good mix overall. So we get some cash for at the same time. And I'm getting on the treasury yep. Absolutely,

And I know you're based in Texas there. I'm just envisioning you sitting around with your buddies talking oil NonStop. Um, what is kind of the feeling down there about energy because it's had such a really two great years for investors. Yeah, well, you know I mentioned this to you before. A lot of the oil people are not uh they're not great for a sentiment here. You know, they get really excited

about when the prices up. For us, we felt we've actually cut back on the majors and added to the royalties because the royalties pay a lot more cash and if we missing the oil goes higher, we'll participate in the way. But I think what they forget is that, uh, you know, you've had a big run and if you do slow the economy down, it's not a guarantee. But if you do slow it down, no matter what happened, Um, you know, the price of oil will dri up a

little bit. And I know they never look at this, but if you look at miles driven by people in the last year, it's down. And so I think, you know, gasling, which is a big piece of that will probably be a news. Consumption will go lower, but there, you know, but that's what they think. What we think is it will drift with the economy and then you know, if you want to pick it up the lower level, you

probably can. So you don't think we're gonna see Remember in um two thousand and eight, when we knew that the whole world was going to hell in a handbasket. But yeah, um, the Chinese were still driving more and more and more cars, and things weren't quite as bad in Europe as they were here. Yet the housing crisis hadn't rolled around the world and oil went to a hundred forty six dollars a barrel. They don't think that's gonna happen again. Oh yeah, eventually, Yeah, I do. I

think I think this is just a short term swoon. Uh. But long term, if you look at if you look at the numbers and supply the men, it's almost impossible not to go back up. I mean, it's just once you come out of it into a newer, a better economy. And you gotta remember, China's just coming out to now. So once you come out and that's and everybody else, then you're going to be in a situation where the price the price will go, It'll go it had almost

has to go up right now. Not not short term, but I'm talking about it in the long term and has to go up because there's not enough of it. Ted, how to folks down in Texas really think about uh kind of this move towards a more greener energy, uh infrastructure if if you will, maybe in terms of time or just kind of has an investment opportunity. I mean, are you taking advantage of it even though you're surrounded

by wildcatters? Oh? Yeah? If you look across Texas and we have a tremendous amount of wind power now and a tremendous amount of solar power, all of those are you know there? If you you go out in the ranches and uh in Sexes and look around it, they have a lot of them have windmills now, I mean a lot and you know, so they're using wind, they're using solar. It's not they're not um not using it. They just they blended in with the other things they

had all right, Ted, good stuff appreciated. Always checking in with you. Ted Oakley. He's a founder and managing partner Oxbow Advisors. Let's check out what some of the pros are doing in the marketplace here, because again a busy busy week, lots of earnings, lots of eco data. Lyle Himbau Uh joins us. He's a partner Granted Group Advisors. Lyle, thanks for joining us here at Brutal two. We've got a busy, busy week here. The markets have rebounded off

of those October lows. What are you telling your clients? Great question right now? You know, you know if everything for us is really about you know, valuation, valuation, valuation, right, So when you look at the market today, and this is part of the things that we put in our quarly commentary to our clients, UH, is that we're treating

at eighteen point two times this year's earnings. In itself, that's not so bad, but when you look at historical norms of being between fifteen and sixteen, um, it's a little high, right, So we could have a little bit of retrenchment here coming down, but it's not so bad

if we have the growth. But if we don't have the growth, there would be really no reason to really go chase the market up here at this particular moment, and by the way, that's across all companies, even those that don't have an E. Right, if you look at all the companies, only the ones that have an E, we're trading at almost twenty times. Yeah, the ones that have an E are like really really the small cap guys.

There are a bunch of small companies that I tell the v C guys that call us a cold cause he said, there's no reason for me to place money with your privately when I can get public valuation of private value equity valuations in the public market at this point, right, So some of them are you know, the E is essential going forward here in a sort of a flat market. How much, by the way, um, how much of this

could change? We we've been talking about earnings performance on the SMP on the nasdack, but we're only into it, right. What kind of swings do you see in an earning season like this, um, when there seems to be so much uncertainty in the markets. Is there uncertainty in the the remaining of the company's coming out earnings or do we have a pretty good indicator? Might be the indications are pretty good for those of people that put out

the earnings in advance. But you know right now, you know, I think earn the cost of good soul is increasing. So like we don't think there's gonna be a really hard landing or economic recession, but in the short term here, I think there's going to be a margin recession. Right, So Poplin is okay, but the bottom line might be affected because it's just so much costs so much more to you know, you know, to establish that output for

you know, to deliver our product, how much of it? Also, you know, it's being measured against an unfair, unfair time. I mean, um, you know, because Paul is so focused on the media and streaming and everything. Um, they've gone through an exceptional and extraordinary period, the likes of which is unlikely to be repeated for decades, right, I mean once the next time, we're all gonna be locked in our homes forced to watch every single program on Netflix. Yeah,

well I'm guilty of that. I went through. Uh, I did some binge watching for a while, so the but the I can't foresee, you know, you can't predict the unpredictable, right when stuff like that happens, uh, is it is really it's it's a once in a lifetime of that, and that's why the valuations in tech got so crazy back in twenty one. Right at the end of twenty one, we were really three standard deviations over valid back in November. Uh,

in December of twenty one, it was really expensive. And now then that's why seeing this, you know, you know uh pullback in Nastac. The Naszak is still over I would say that the Nazak is still slightly overvalued. I still think we're we have some downside, really interested in general, the SMP and the NAZAC. But I think there's going to be um another I think a milder leg down

won't be as uh big as twenty two. But three's so far is uh based on what I see in the earnings, we should have some short term volatility going on to the downside. Lie on. One of the concerns that I think some some strategists call out, some fund managers call out, is earnings risk. And if I look at the SMP five hundred on the Bloomberg terminal, looking like about dollars per share earnings this year, some folks are even suggesting the downside to be two hundred two earnings.

Here are you in that camp? Do you think earnings risk is is material in this market? It? You know, from when you look at it, that's a great question. When you look at it from a historical perspective, you know, there's I don't want scary audience. But if you look at off Ford p s, you get a much lower SMP number. But let's assume we're not going to have

this hard landing. And then when you look at the valuations here, you know, assume it's sixteen you know multiple, you know, at least for the short term, if we don't have you know, a fall off in the economy. But at the end of the day, if if the guys are right there, some people are looking at hundred. Uh my friends over at Cratt Swifts they're saying, uh to fifteen as the best case scenario, and imply a sixteen multiple, you're getting thirty four hundred, right at least

on the short term. Right, So but you have to I think, you know, for long term investors, I think you really got to look out to twenty four right now. You see earnings coming down. I saw in Bloomberg. I think, um, I think earnings for this year down to two twenty four to twenty three. But for next year, the earnings are starting to come down for four and they were at two fifty five. I think that down to two

seven and that's just starting. UM. So when you look at normal metrics, you know, you know you and since the market looks forward not backwards, uh, you've really got to look at you know, sixteen multiple I think would be normal and based it on around two forty or so. And you're gonna get around, Lyle, what do you expect to hear from j Powell and co On or really just from UM Chairman Powell on Wednesday? Can you deliver a very hawkish basis points? Is that what we're looking

for now? Yeah? I think I think, I think you know the market is predicting basis points. That's that's that's a done deal. Uh. If he goes fifty basis points, which I'm sort of hoping he will, just to rip the band aid off and get this over with because you remember, his mandate is to really control inflation, and inflation is controlled by wage inflation. Uh. Core inflation is controlled by wage inflation. And uh, he's really got to

get that on control. If he does fifty, Uh, this market will go down all right, good stuff appreciated as always Lyle Himball. He is a partner at granted A Group Advisors. It's interesting Ford hits back at Tesla's price cut by lopping nearly six dollars off the Mustang. Mocke I want to see what's going on there. What are the folks in Detroit really think about this stuff? Keith not, and he covers the autos industry for Bloomberg. He is based in our Detroit bureau. Keith, You know Ford here,

what do you think they're doing? Are they following Tesla? Are they trying to be a price leader? Is there a demand part problem out there? What's going on with this price cut? They're absolutely following Tesla. That's what they told me when I asked him that direct question. Is this a response to Tesla? The answer was yes. So they're trying to, you know, build a beach head in the electric vehicle market. Tesla controls two thirds of the US market and Ford is the number two seller of

electric vehicles thanks to the Mustang MAKEE. So they're cutting prices by an average of forty five hundred dollars a car. That's as much as a nine cut um. But Tesla's cuts, you might recall, were as much as so Tesla has a much wider profit margin that it can mind as it cuts places. Ford already has admitted that it's losing money on the Mackie. But the Machi looks way cooler than a Tesla. I mean, the Tesla design hasn't changed

since I first drove one in two thousand ten, you know. Um, and for some cars that works, like the Dodge Challenger I think has been around in its current form since before that. But the Mackie is like the new new thing, right or um to my eye at least, it's certainly more interesting and more pleasing. Yeah, I mean, the Mackie came out a couple of years ago. It is newer.

But obviously, you know, American buyers vote with their pocketbooks, right, and Tesla controls two thirds of the elect vehicle market in the United States. So what do the sales look like for the Maki then, Keith, I mean, um, I'm seeing more and more than my test drop one last year. Uh, and maybe that's what sort of opened my eyes to it. Um. Is it is it selling? Well? Oh yeah, man, it's selling fantastic for GV sales more than double last year.

And part of what's going on here in a way that Sport is hoping to improve the margin picture on this vehicle is they are boosting capacity at their Mexican plant by sixty so they planned to build a hundred and thirty thousand makis this year, up from sixty seven thousand last year. The exciting thing to me is that you can get into such a cool looking vehicle, um with you know, the obvious torque benefits of an e

V for so cheap. I mean, every other vehicle I look at is costing eye popping amounts, and this one still hovers around you know, forty grand even with options. Yep. Yeah, the lowest price Mackie. Uh. They cut the price on that one by nine hundred dollars, so that now starts at that's the real old drive one. Uh. The high end Markie, which is the the GT Uh. They cut

that price byred so that now starts at six. There's another California Route one Extended Range edition that starts around fifty seven nine, So you know, it's right starting below fifty grand and then climbing well. But Keith, when I do the math as a consumer, who looks to save UH taxes in any way I can. I'm adding the credit back in. Is that is that right for me to add theredit back in? Is that a lock with the Ford Mustang Maki or are we still not sure

exactly who's going to get these credits? Um, you can get the credit um currently if you're below fifty K on this type of vehicle. So some of the makis will call it qualify certainly the the base model at but there's also an all wheel drive model that also is below the bogey. So um you can qualify it for it on some of the make models. But so that's the cutoff, not no e V, you know, totally b EV if it costs more than fifty five thousand

gets tax credit anymore for this particular model configuration. There's different levels. It's a very complex formula, so you know math and and it's a formula that's still in flux and will change more in the coming months. Hey, Keith, you know Kevin Tynan at Bloomberg Intelligence has been really consistent on his EV analysis over the last several years.

Were basically saying when Detroit can make money on evs, they'll make evs but if they're getting the price here, what's Ford saying about the profitability the unprofitability of these things. Ford has said since June that the profits have been wiped out on the make because of rising commodity costs. They are working continually to try and cut costs out of this thing. They feel like boosting production as much as they're doing is going to help the profit picture.

You know, they're trying to make up for in volume, if you will, but they are not making money on this car. The choice they're making right now is trying to gain market share. Established that beach head. They liked being the number two seller of electric vehicles, way ahead of general motors. So they want to stay in that position and grow from there. And sometimes you have to take some short term pain to make the long term gain. Keith, you're in Detroit. What are the real car people in Detroit?

What are they saying about the e V business? Are they grudgingly moving towards evs? Are rushing get ahead? I see these everywhere. There's Tesla's in my neighborhood. There's ribbans in my neighborhood. They are not knuckle drivers here in Detroit. They are driving evs so and everybody likes the instant torque, Like Matt, I've driven the Marquee several times. It's a it's a blast as our all the evs out there because of that instant torque. I've drove the F one

fifty Lightning. You know. You you touch the accelerator pedal on that thing and it's like warp speed. So how can you not enjoy this? So? Yeah, this car town loves electric vehicles? Do we do we know whether there's going to be more needed more laborers to build these things are less fewer, right, it takes fewer to fewer people put together. Yep. There are fewer moving parts in an electric vehicle and it'll take I think the estimates have been about one third fewer workers to assemble them.

You know, you have an electric motor um or multiple electric motors, there's there's it's not a lot. It's not as much as you get from an internal combustion engine. That's what I thought. That's what I thought. All right, good stuff. Keith Notton, he's our autist reporter based in Detroit, which is a good thing. That's where you want him to be. Uh, talking about the V business, Forward cutting the price on their mocke pretty significant, and I mean

they're pretty clear. I mean, as Keith was reporting in response to Tesla, they want to take market share, and um, it's a cool little vehicle to do so. I just think they need more. Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg Markets podcast. You can subscribe and listen to interviews with Apple Podcasts or whatever podcast platform you prefer. I'm Matt Miller. I'm on Twitter at Matt Miller V three. Pet On

Ball Sweeney I'm on Twitter at pt Sweeney. Before the podcast, you can always catch us worldwide at Bloomberg Radio