Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney, alongside my co host Matt Miller.
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Kielta's CEO Ta's Asset Management.
He joins us here in our Bloomberg Interactive Broker studio. And if you spelled your name t Oe w S No way am I getting Ta's out of that?
Yeah? So actually there's a V in there. It's like waves of the ocean with a T.
Where's that from?
Where do you get?
Oh?
Yeah, well would have been an o um lot, which is pronounceable in the English language, And so they converted it to something that people could say, but not like say, if you look at the spelling right.
So yeah, despite for example, koenig or which means king. You know, it's just impossible, even for someone like me who spent ten years living in Germany, I can never pronounce the O with an O out over it. So I think tas is the only.
Choice Yeah, so we're going all in. We're trying to get lows to change their pronunciation, like we're like, we're on a mission.
Yeah, I just because I totally you weared your name a little earlier today. But I'm not apologizing because there's no way you get tased out of that.
But I'll go with it.
You're in our studio. We appreciate you coming in. Yeah, what are you doing with this market here?
Phil?
I mean people were just kind of figuring we're going to the moon a few weeks ago, and then August has a been so great?
What are you?
How are you thinking about it?
Yeah?
So it's you know, the markets are just big optimism machines. I don't know, do we get that? Yeah, And so there can be a couple of things that that cause a dentin optimism. We all know about China rates. You know, I'm not loving the move higher in the tenure again today to sort of fresh highs. That's definitely weighing on it. Are there going to be things that develop as a result of those higher rates like we saw back in
March with the regional bank issues. We don't know. At the same time, it feels to me a little bit like pulling the hair nail off the finger. Is a time to buy in this streets. You know, there's no blood in the streets, right, And if we could make it through the regional banking issue, why not this?
Uh Really, it's.
Interesting you're talking about in video because I think what we need is just a little injection of something that creates optimism. So if you get a really good report out of that, because the AI theme going again, I can think we could rally out of this. However, we actually went defensive on our US stocks, which means fully defensive last week.
What's the defensive stock for you mean? Is it a big bounce, lots of cash?
What's what's it mean?
So hey, when we say defensive, we mean defensive like as in T bills. Oh right, So we have a bunch of different funds we have. We have an option hedged ETF and we're SKY that's always in the markets, but hedged right with options. But we have a couple of funds too that can go fully fully out of the markets. And so those went out of the markets in T bills. We can also be in aggregate bonds and other types of things. Of those win into T bills. That's purely just reactive to price trends, and so we
don't know what's going to happen. So that's you know, that's the perspective we bring, is that we we have fun talking about the market, but we can actually make huge shifts, so we don't care as much as a normal market player if things fall off the rails because we can can you know, hedge against that.
You can understand though, why the market's an optimism machine if you just look at any long term chart of you know, the Dow or the S and P five hundred. I mean, obviously over the long term it's going up into the right do you think the other you know, four hundred and ninety three stocks and the S and P are going to start to catch up with the top seven? Maybe?
And you know it was broadening up before we saw this little move down in the last three weeks or so, so maybe. But when I say optimism machine, it's sort of like a little different take on it in the sense that as fast as you can go from optimism to pessimism, you can go from a great market to significant losses, right, And so I think everyone looks at the fundamentals and just puts so much weight on that, and you know, over the long term that is that
does weigh heavily. But it's really all about what sent is, what the vibe is. And you know, you could argue that we shouldn't be as high as we are right now and the seven stock shouldn't have let us where we are, but it is the way it is based on just market momentum. And you know, I think fifteen percent year to date on the S and P is still awesome compared to those te bills that we just did into last week, and so that could be enough.
If we just go bring it up another couple percent and see the market take off, it could be enough to get us back on the road again.
The cool thing about treasuries is if you get in, you know, at a great rate, and what are you getting on the tee bills? Like five percent? Sure, I guess in that sense you have reinvestment risk, but if you go a little bit out the curve, you could top tick the rate and so not only are you getting a decent return, but you're gonna get capital appreciation.
Right totally, And I think there will be a day for that. I'm not sure it's right now. Though I'm not trying to love that trade because just you know, if we don't hit it, don't hit it into our session and the market normalizes, the yield curve normalizes. I mean, I think you're still sort of where we are on the tenure potentially.
So don't I don't know, to get into a recession. If the FED really wants to control inflation, don't they have to push us into a recession.
I mean that go back into the optimism machine questions is like, so many people think maybe it's not gonna happen now, So I mean, look, I mean it's it's the one thing that's that's interesting is it's so hard to make these market calls, these economic calls, because so many times, you know, over the last ten fifteen years, you see something seems obvious and then it goes the other way.
But you know, the fore most optimistic words in the English language, what are those? It's different this time?
Oh yeah, of course, no, I get that. I get that.
Yeah, all right, So what's the catalysts or catalyst plural that would take some of that ninety percent of your assets sets in cash now and deployed into.
This Okay, So all would take is a trend higher, right, so good good get good in video earnings gets enough. Maybe maybe it's not so much what good news could happen, but whether we see receiving bad news, especially out of China, And I mean, uh, you know, it's hard to make the connection between all this bad news and shadow banks and everything in China and how it could actually impact
US investors. And I think that's what we're all waiting for, right because a credit crisis, it's all about things that seemed like it's not going to really affect the markets broadly, and then all of a sudden it totally does, like financial crisis everything else like that. So I think, you know, some good earnings, see the ten years stop going higher. You know, we're four point thirty two. If we could
stay there, I think that could potentially be enough. Okay, We've got bad couple of months seasonality coming up in September and October, so maybe if.
You remember that, all right, so you know, how about a pullback in this market? Is there a evaluation call here? We just kind of got through the earning cycle, We kind of got reset on earning's outlooks from a lot of these companies is what did you take away from the earning season we just got through.
Well, I mean, I think it's enough to keep us going in the Bowl market, Like I don't think. I don't think we weren't hit too hard in any particular place. So I think it's enough to keep us going. And you know, so I'm talking really here when I talk about where the markets are going, it's all really basically short term. Short term. I'm thinking about it what the next three months six months is, because that's all people seem to care about.
Right.
There are much bigger issues, and I think China plays into that in terms of global debt. You've seen the movie Interstellar where Matthew McConaughey's there on his spaceship and.
It's like eight times there's this there's what looks like.
A mountainscape in the background, and then they figure out us a giant wave. Yes, okay, So here's the pessimistic Felipe coming out, which is that that's still there right in these record global debt. The presentation I've been doing all across the country this year is the hidden implications of global debt. And so if you want to zoom out a bit for if you'll go there and not care about next month. I think those are some huge implications.
And and you know China, they're they're well to GDP is around eight eight x. So the only time we've seen that historically is in Japan back in nineteen eighty nine, the last time that they had a good stock market. Right, and so that you know, you have three x in the US. And so bringing that demand li equation back into bounds, which means bringing wealth down and GDP up, that can sometimes be painfulfully that.
Just and right, Yeah, it could be leaving wealth there and bringing GDP up.
Potentially we can have a whole conversation about that because I've got like a whole hour presentation. I can make it into five minutes for you guys if you want so.
All right, so we don't have time now, but I want to see that presentation the next time you're going to give it.
Well, so I do it, just I do it in person. You know that's happening.
Oh, I see we have to hire you to come into the office.
Yeah, right, yeah, how that'd be awesome.
All right, thirty seconds the FED, what are they gonna do next? Well? Next, next, Thursday. What are they gonna do on Friday?
Sorry etentally, but I mean assom nothing there So, but.
That's what I think. I mean. There have been a couple of times this year when I've said it totally doesn't matter what Powell says, and he says something important and the market's really changed, so I have to I think. I mean, I said that the last time I was on with you guys. So I think just just like nothing Burger is where we are in terms of like because we're all expecting a you know, maybe another twenty five BIPs out of the fad. It's just not the same Newsmaker was over the past.
World.
We're going to turn that narrative around because otherwise, why are we saying the whole surveillance team there? Exactly in Michael mckeasey, it's gonna be the most important FED gathering that we've had all year long.
Whatever Fisher out there they're running, we'll call it that. Phil Tays, thanks so much for joining us. Phil Taste is the CEO of Tay's Asset Management.
You're listening to the Team Ken's Are Live program Bloomberg Markets weekdays at ten am Eastern on Bloomberg dot Com, the iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg Business app, or listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts.
Claudia sam joins us here founder and independent economist at some consulting, but she was all over the place. She was at the Federal Reserve, Senior conmfs of Council Economic Advisors, at the White House, on and on and on. She's got PhDs from Michigan, not the Ohio State University, but Michigan.
She went to Dennison undergrad That's most importantly.
That's most important because I read state the great state of Ohio.
I was there for one ill fated year ninety one, ninety two.
Didn't work out for you? No, did they ask you to leave, mister Miller, it might be better.
For it was.
It was, I think a mutual agreement, and it's under sealed and we can't go there.
Uh, Claudia, I would like to talk to you about heat.
It's hot out there, and not just in the southern and western part of the United States, but all over the world. It seems like what does heat mean for this economy?
Right?
So the Bloomberg opinion piece that I wrote was focusing on heat and its effects. In particularly it's economic effects. Like we know there's a lot of human cost to you know, heat waves and very high temperatures, and this instead was looking at, okay, what are the effects of this on the economy, And these can be even if we're not the ones in a high heat area, it can affect us, right if the labor productivity is lower, growth is lower, costs of a lot of these goods,
you know, agriculture goods is higher. So the effects are broad based. And when you start to go through the list of all the ways that high heat, rising temperatures affect labor productivity is a really long list, and there's a lot of variation. Whether you're thinking about geographic where Arizona and Texas are going to bear the brunt of this, and they certainly, and there are effects the summer, Phoenix is the hottest city in the country, right so, and
there's also industry differences. Agriculture is hard hit, but agriculture is not the only place that workers are exposed to high heat. I mean, twenty percent of US workers are exposed to high heat. So you don't have to do too much math to figure out if these workers are having a rough time doing their work. It's going to show up in a measurable way and growth well.
No construction. I was talking to some construction workers in Texas who said they can't do the work during the day. Was last month. They couldn't do the work during the day because it was far too hot, and then they try to do it at night, but they have their noise issues in residential areas. So it really is incredibly expensive and in some cases they can't even get jobs done because when you're laying cement, for example, it's got to cure in a certain way and the heat doesn't
allow it. In any case. It's not the only effect of climate change, right The storms, the massive storms that we're seeing, the wildfires that we're seeing, also have an effect, and that just builds up the costs on the country. Is this just, I guess, a new normal or worsening normal that we have to get used to.
Right, So, there's a lot of arguments about why we have this high heat, why we had these droughts, and regardless of whether you get into the climate change debate, which will get you to this problem will get worse. Like right now, we are seeing cost because as you
said there's high heat, not just in the US. Europe has really struggled with this also, and so it is like these costs are here right now, you know, and to the extent like you were saying the construction workers, we can only adapt so much, right, and then it really starts to bite on productivity. And we see it in a lot of places like food. I mean, we see this already a lot of times.
And we see it like within cities. So I'm looking at your your opinion piece. Here in Washington, DC, there's at times a seventeen degree difference between wealthy and poor neighborhoods in Washington, d C.
How does that come about?
Well, one of the and I mean I double check that number several times, right, Like that's just wow, seventeen degrees, Like that's a big difference. So what happens in a lot of cities is you get these heat islands. Right, So in poor areas, you don't have the trees, you don't have you know, the grass, the wider spaces to kind of absorb that heat. Instead, in a lot of these lower income it's just you've got the you know, concrete,
the buildings that absorb the heat. And then push it back out right like it's and so that can make a big difference in terms of uh, you know, these these heat islands can be much hotter in some places than others. And then it's like, well, what makes a heat island?
Right?
Is this lack of vegetation and all of this. So that's another There are lots of ways that this high heat creates disparities across those with less income and those with more.
Yeah, I know, like here in a metro New York area, whenever they put up the maps on TV of the of the temperatures, seems like always the highest temperatures Newark, New Jersey, you know, by like three or four degrees relative to everybody else.
Really, what about Midtown?
No, it's Newark is oil and I don't know why, but the poor folks there have to deal with that sometimes.
Any case, it's a great piece, and I recommend if you have a Bloomberg terminal type op I go if you are are on the internet, you can just go look at Bloomberg dot com and search for Cloudia some Cloudia. I want to get to the FED because your your psalm role has become famous. With three month moving average of unemployment. When it rises by half a percent relative to the low point during the previous twelve months, that means the economy is contracting. How does it look to
you right now? We're not in a recession, but are we headed for that?
So the labor market is pretty strong still right consumers are still spending. That's almost seventy percent of GDP. So it's pretty clear that we are not in a recession right now. I think some of the conversation in Jackson Hole, the decisions that are made by the Fed over the coming months, I mean that could have a real impact on whether we go into a recession or not. The
sam rule says nothing about where we are headed. And there's been a lot of indicators that normally are pretty good at saying a recession is coming that are really flashing red. I think they're too pessimistic.
But.
There, you know, not being in a recession now is no guarantee of not being in a recession end of year going into next year.
Well, do we have to get into a recession in order to the Fed? For the FED to really control inflation? Is that a necessary part of getting inflation? The inflation genie back in the Bottle.
I firmly disagree with the idea that we need a recession, and that messaging has been very clear from the FED officials, and.
We don't need one.
We may get one, and if we get one, we may see inflation come down a lot, but that does not mean that we need one or needed one if we get to that place. This special factor this time is we are unwinding a lot of disruptions in the economy from COVID. I mean, that's what a lot of the disinflation we've seen this summer is coming from. That's really giving the FED an assist here, right. It also makes their job harder to figure out how much they need to do. But if the stars all line and
they could, we have the ingredients. We don't have a contraction where it's a very mild contraction.
And that's kind of where I think a lot of folks are because they just look at the employment environment and we're still at our near full employment.
How do you think about the labor market? Right?
So I found it fascinating that over the past two years the markets have kind of like a recession is coming. It's not coming, it's coming, you know, So we move back and forth. I've been steadying the call. I you know this, this is very important with the recession, yep, where we're headed. And I think you know, the FED tells everybody their data driven, right, so I can't fault anyone for looking obsessively at the data. And yet one release of inflation or like this is not going to
tell us anything. And with the labor market, the tide can turn pretty fast. Yep, right, like it again, there's no guarantee that we stay here, but I mean, my goodness, this has been a good labor market. Yes, workers particuarly low income or low wage workers.
Yep.
All right, Claudia, thank you so much for joining us. Claudia Sam, founder and independent economist at Some Consulting.
You're listening to the tape Can's our live program Bloomberg Markets weekdays at ten am Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the tune in app, Bloomberg dot Com.
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Have miler Paul Sweeney here in the Bloomberg Interactive Brokers Studio look at this, Matt, the bankrate dot com US home mortgage thirty year fixed at national average seven point five five percent from a rock star with my six percent more.
I'm surprised it's that low because, uh, we just saw the tenure rise to what to sorry, four thirty four, and we've seen the mortgage rate about three points above the tenure lately. I know that's more than the historical average. Usually it's more like two percent above the tenure.
But let's bring in a profession with those and stuff for a living. Lisa Knee, National leader of real estate practice at Eisner Amper, joins us live here in our Bloomberg Interactive Broker studio. What's the world to do with a mortgage rate of seven point five to five percent?
I mean, Matt's got his under three. He's not doing anything.
So thank you for having me a great question of where we're sitting when we look at historic mortgage rates. We talked about this before. When I first bought my house twenty years ago, this was about what my rates were at or about the sevens. And so when we look we have some very very artificially lower rates over the last ten to fifteen years and so it's not really the mortgage rates, but it's pricing and figuring out what valuations are at. And that's really where the trick is.
What are the values We talked about supply, So because there's such little supply out there, it's going to be a little bit hard for people to understand and make those financing work with those mortgage rates. So if you're below seven and you need to sell and move, there's really very little that you're going to go to to pay a higher rate going forward. And that's where the supply is really going to hurt people who are looking to be first time homeowners.
And most everyone's below seven. I mean people have what's the average right now? It's got to be between three and four.
Probably, yeah, and that's going to be difficult to compel someone to sell their home to move to get something out of a higher rate.
So what's the rate I don't know.
I don't want to call it a break even rate, but what's the rate where you think the market freeze up that buyers say, oh okay, I can stomach this great reset?
Is what we call that?
Is that?
What it is? I mean, because so many people are holding on to their homes. They can't come to an agreement on price, right, because if you want to buy my home, I'll sell it to you. I have a three percent mortgage, so I'm going to sell it to you for a hell of a lot more than I would normally ask. But you're not going to buy that because you need a seven percent mortgage. So there's no movement, right, and Bloomberg we call that the great reset here.
That's exact, right. And it's also figuring out what the real valuation is for your house, and so you think it's worth while and above what it should be because it's the numbers aren't penciling out based on those mortgage rates. So you want that cash buyer, that unicorn of the cash buyer, and be able to have them come and
purchase your home. But again, it's you figuring out what what you're willing to take for you to have to pay off your mortgage and move somewhere else, knowing that you're not getting that rate.
Again.
Yeah, well, I mean, so where are weak Statistically it's just like an abnormally low time for lack of transactions.
The transaction market, not just in the home mortgage but in every commercial real estate is at a standstill because people are trying to figure out where mortgage rates are going to be in the ten years. So you mentioned it was four four thirty four point three, and so figuring out how long it's going to stay there and what those win are value is going to start coming down, and then transactions should start picking up based on that.
But until people really understand where values are going to be, and we're sort of at that set, it's going to be difficult for transaction volume to pick up.
So we haven't seen. What I want is see is one or two kind of notable transactions in New York, for example, or San Francisco, and I want to see if the discount is ten percent, thirty percent, fifty percent, sixty percent. I don't know where this market is. For some of these big markets. On the commercial real estate side, we haven't really seen much transact have we.
The only thing we've seen is giving back to the banks, which we know didn't make smart investment sense for people to go, you know, work those properties back in and things that are going to start trading soon. It's not trading because there's no cash flow there. It's trading because the mortgage rates aren't working to pencil out those deals, and they just haven't happened yet because right now we're
waiting for those mortgages to be up. We talked about, you know one of those fixes is it in eighteen to twenty four months, and that really might be the cycle of what we're looking for to see when those tradings are going to start happening.
What about building homes, I mean, are are we bringing enough supply on in that way? Since there isn't enough supply and you know, previously owned homes.
So correct, there wasn't enough supply In two thousand and seven and eight, we stop building homes and so now there's a little bit more. But what they're doing is single family rental. Because people aren't able to purchase their own homes. You've now have these large companies who are coming and building single asset homes or single homes, and people are renting them with the hope that they'll be able to buy them and build up their credit rating in the future.
But by the way, find else there are a lot of people who will say I don't want to buy a home. In fact, the cost of ownership I think is higher than most people realize taxes. A lot of times rental is taxes. Tell me about it. In Westchester, there are a lot of people who who say, look, I'd rather rent a home, and it's actually a better financial decision. I can invest my money elsewhere and I'm better off.
And when you think about the generation now that's looking to buy homes, they're not looking at long term thinkers. They're in the one to two year range, and so for them to purchase a home that they're going to be in there for thirty years when we did our thirty year mortgages, they're not looking at that. They're looking for the one to two years where they going to live and not really want to commit to something for
that long term purchase. And that's why that short the single family rental market is so hot right now.
How much of the.
Problem is it going to be for on the commercial real estate side when work just come due? I mean, because we've seen people like Brookfield, I mean like major institutional real estate people turn the keys over. I mean, this isn't some mom and pop developer I mean or owner. These are major global real estate players that are saying I just can't make it work.
So what they're bringing. Why they're turning their keys over is they're making sound business decisions of saying I can't have my investors they have the cash to do it. They don't want their investors to invest back in to make those properties work, knowing that those have to be reset at a lower price.
A reputational risk there. I mean, I can't your failure.
You just turned over the trophy Trophy property in San Francisco to the banks. Now it's the bank's problem.
So they're making sound investment decisions of saying I can't, I.
Can't the bank. It's not sound to me.
Well, so when I I mean, that's a fair point. But the banks are going to sit there and they're going to make so that they work that out, and they're going to all make sure that those properties get repositioned in a smarter way, probably at a price that makes sense for that new developer to come in and reposition that property. So it is a sound investment decision if you're an investor from a Brookfield point of me.
It's going to take years, isn't it for this commercial real estate market to sort itself out?
We at least need to see what's going to happen in the next eighteen to twenty four months. And when you talk about costs, the biggest cost people are complaining about besides interest rates is insurance, and that insurance market is really putting a strain on the pricing that's been coming up for people to make sure that they can make those deals work and pencil out. The percentage of insurance going up year over year, it's been astronomical from what we're hearing.
You know, people make a lot of money in real estate, commercial, residential, but man, when it's bad, when it tied turns, it is tough out there because everything conspires against you. Yeah, Lisa, NEI, thank you so much for joining us. Lisa is the partner and national tax leader for real estate practice at Eisner Advisory Group.
And change your name, okay, Eisner Advisory Group.
Good stuff, all right, So, but you're sitting on your three percent mortgage you don't have a care in the world.
Well, also, I can't move. I mean I have a two year old and one on the way and a wife that would kill me if I even suggested it.
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Now. SRI has darkened the door of the Bloomberg Interactive Broker studio. Let's find out what's going on here, Sree. It's not a huge unit, right, it's not a huge unit.
But this is again one of those strategic missteps that people keep talking about ultimately, because you're talking about a business that was part of the score Goldman effort to get beyond its core base of ultra high network clients go after the mass affluent market. How they did that one is obviously through that ill fated consumer banking push, which has completely been you know, they're attempting to wipe
it off the face of the earth now. But at the same time, even in its wealth management business, they wanted to go beyond their high network base because that's a pace where Goldman's really good. They then wanted to go out there with this United Capital purchase to reach the market where your average customer balance size might be one million, one and a half million, nothing like the twenty five thirty million dollar customers you normally deal with.
But it was a signal that Goldman was going beyond its roots. Undoing that deal four years after it's done is a clear admission that that didn't work out and it wants to refocus his energies to places where it's really good at. So again, another circuitous path to get to the place where they're already standing four years ago.
I've been a key admirer and competitor to Goldman Sacks for forty years, so to me, the only story I care about now is just David Solomon, the infighting, the partners or whatever's left of that partnership. What's it like in the hallways and the executive suite of Goldman Sacks these days, do you think? Or the Hampton's got forbid there in the office.
It's funny, and I'm glad you mentioned Hamptons because just last week there was an event where Gary Cohne was there and the founder of BTIG was hosting it, and he starts, ou nobody.
Was wearing socks apparently, Oh that's right, down, no socks.
They were all Hampton's shakes.
So yes, madam, right, no socks on Larry Summers.
But here's the thing. The host, the BTIG founders started off by cracking a joke saying, hey, if you see Gary Cone leave, that's because he's been called back in to be a candidate to be seof. They're all openly joking about it. So the atmosphere inside Goldman sex is obviously not great. But I will say that a lot of the criticism has been brushed away, like, oh, it's just personality issues. People are not happy with the hard charging boss. But there are also some genuine operational mess ups.
The economists had a very good story over the weekend. It is not like Goldman performance has been dreadful, absolutely not. That's not why the stock would be up fifty percent over five years. At the same time, it's not been great.
It has been patchy, and patchy.
Is just the right word. You've had successes in places where you're really good I investment banking and trading everything else. You fumbled with the leadership and asset management. There By my last calculation, I think they had like seven different
iterations of leadership in that asset management business. We've talked at length about all their problems with Marcus, so clearly on the operational side they've had some challenges and that contributes to the air of discontent inside Goldman Sachs.
They don't have too many problems with Marcus from my point of view, because I get four and a half percent thanks that account.
But all right, one of the things I want to ask is what's the role of Lloyd blank find I always think about the past chairman's of CEO or CEOs of Goldman Sachs and what role they play, given that it was a partnership for so long, given that that partnership mentality, the clicks of partners still exists there, what role does he play these days or.
Is he kind of in a background.
It's interesting you mentioned Lloyd because all of the reporting around him in recent months has been how he been a little more open and has been griping about David Solomon's performance. But in reality, I don't think what Lloyd is saying really holds a lot of weight with current management or for that matter, the board. But he is if the griping is indeed true, he is he is expressing a sentiment that's been echoed everywhere inside Goldman Sacks.
People who interact with Goldman Sax they're all talking about the same topic. Even when they meet some of their biggest clients. Those clients tell us that, you know, they start their meeting, or at least half their meeting ends up being a little bit about the palace entry inside Goldman Sacks rather than the business' hand and that's obviously a challenge that need to solve. For that, they need to make that noise go down.
It's interesting because I do look at the MGMT function on the Bloomberg terminal for Goldman Sachs, and it just wasn't aware of is that David Solomon is not only the CEO, he is also chairman of the board. So he has a strong governmental I mean a strong position structurally in the company.
Absolutely, and that's how a lot of American bank boards are structured. It's very different in Europe. The chairman typically does not tend to be the CEO. In the US, that often is the case. Look at JP Morgan, look at Morgensane, look at Goldman Sachs. But I think the direction of travel and in the coming years you will increasingly see a split in those roles as well.
Again, I'm looking at this board.
The lead directors Bio ungle Lesi, who I do know because you're from the Credit Swiss first Boston days. I mean, he's a longtime global banker with a lot of heft as well, so you used.
To run the investment bank Credit Squeze has a lot of great credentials in the finance community. Do has done really well with GIP Global Infrastructure Partners. And interestingly he's been the chairman even before David Solomon arrived in the CEOC. That is when sorry, not the chairman, the lead independent director. So when Lloyd was there, Bio was the lead independent director and has has held on to that role under David.
So in some ways, one of the more powerful but underappreciated roles in finance right now is the lead independent director at Goldman sachs At.
In a time of tumult, there's so much news in there's so much kind of m and a news in finance this morning, right because you've your Goldman story, You've got the City Institutional Client Group split. I'm gonna watch that boy. Tyler Dixon is one of the top guys. You've got what kind of looks like a bidding war over Sculptor if it'll be allowed, because it seems like the game is rigged there to keep the current management in place.
This Sculpture thing is just endlessly fascinating. You know, when you heard about the guys who were looking to buy them, clearly I believe fine and we knew Sculptor had been pushed the Sculptor Capital Management, right and previously more famous as OXI.
Yeah, okay, alternative manager, right, the classical hedge fund. Right.
But and we saw, okay, find they had a deal. And normally that's the kind of roll ups we've been seeing. But the fact that you have this all star line of boys Weinstein, Mark Lasry, Bill Lackman contemplating accounter bitter or putting forth account bit, it's so interesting. Obviously Sculptor is not taking the bite just yet. We will see how that unfolds. But yeah, it's it's it's interesting to see this bidding war on that ox IF now known.
As the Suction, that that community so tight knit, the hitch mean hedge fund community wouldn't see something in the public. But it's at a fifty two week high today, it's a three point six percent. Sculptor is SCU is the ticker, and it's got a market cap of a seven or twenty five.
And the backstory is important, right, Uh, fascinating Oxif became Sculptor after having gone through a pretty bruising battle and some investigations over a bribery scandal, and of course there was the whole leadership fight between Jimmy Levin and Dan Och, who's who no longer doesn't have an act, doesn't have an active role, but clearly still a big shareholder, and
they became Sculptor. And I'm telling you, the only thing that will be better than this lineup of alternate bidders that we've heard of is suddenly Bill Ackman and Carl Icon decide to join forces a bit for Sculture.
Joint Force or fight over and plus you have, We'll take either of those off. Dan ox saga, right, because this is a guy who like builds himself up and then destroys himself over and over again. You know, he's like, how how big can I build this? And then he's like, how can I ruin it in a dramatic fashion?
And talk about Ballastandrick Jimmy Levin was the chosen one. He was dan OG's guy. He was the one who was supposedly going to be the one running the place. And you know dan was completely behind him, and then this breaks out and this all out war between the two of them.
All right, so we'll pay attention to that. Like seeing the hedge fund guys battle each other again. Another kind of like billionaire story, billionaires acting oddly silly kind of.
Stuff, fighting about a crab shack, some eighteen property or you know, someone's modern art statue that's an iesore.
Right, what did?
What did? Did? Bill Gross reportedly he like played the Gilligan's Island theme song over and over again as.
Loud as he Yeah, how could we forget that one?
I love billionaires behaving badly.
Shrinata Roger, thanks so much for joining us. Wall Street reporter Goldman Sachs, reporter for Bloomberg News. Joining us live here in our Bloomberg Interactive Brokers studio.
You're listening to the tape Cat's are Live program Bloomberg Markets weekdays at ten am Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the tune in app, Bloomberg dot Com, and.
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Matt Miller, Paul Sweeney live here in a Bloomberg Interactive Brokers studio. We are streaming live on YouTube thankfully because in our viewers get to see Dan ives in person. Dan, I've senior analyst at Wedbush Securities, you know and your.
Self site analysts, Matt.
One of the challenges is kind of standing out from the crowd, making some calls that really stand out. This call stands out, and this is a call I fully fully endorse.
I've been calling for a long time.
I get ignored the whole way Apple should end deal drought by buying Espn. This analyst said that Dan I was managing director senior analyst Wedbus Security.
So Dan, I kind of agree with you here.
What's your rationale behind your call saying Apple, which is a company you follow and have filed for a long time, should buy Espn, which may be up for sale.
And I think, look eighteen months ago, this isn't even a discussion. But I think if you look what's happened with Eiger and Disney with a strategic process, I think now Espn, in my opinion, it's a matter of when not if the ultimately Apple is going to look to at a minimum do a distribution deal, and we believe potentially acquire ESPN because you look at what Apple needs, they need live sports content. I think MLS in terms
of the messy situation, that's really what the appetite. I think they've now recognized and you see the subscriber growth that's been massive. That's what's going to bring them onto the platform. PAC twelve clearly came and gone, and then that was something that they were trying to get and that deal fell apart. But when it comes to I've Sports,
it's the golden goose. So we ultimately believe that in the next called six nine months, you know, Apple finally can end this deal drought obviously not m and A that that's in the typical DNA of Cupatina, and I think ESPN ends up in Apple.
Why stop at ESPN? Why not just buy Disney? They have more money in cash than Disney has in market cap total market cap.
Yeah, and I know, I mean others talked about like ware and others about them buying Disney Marr Martin from datam I don't personally see that, just because when it comes to parks and it comes to the rest of the Disney operations, that wouldn't necessarily be within the strategic DNA of Cupatina. When you look at ESPN as an asset, that's something that fits like a glove in terms of in the broader strategy. So I think Disney itself I put a very low likelihood, But when it comes to ESPN,
I think high likelihood that something happens here. Look, Iger and Cook or you know know each other extremely well. These are two companies that have interoperated you know, extremely well, and it's something when it comes to ESPN, this is something to me Peanut Butter and jeil can I.
Just what about the anti trust issues? Because regulators don't even want to allow Apple to control what it does with its own store that it invented for its own phones. Like they're not even allowed to run their own business in a free country, why would they be allowed to buy Espn?
Look, every week there's just another black eye for con and the FTC. So it just comes down that I think big tech recognizes more and more starting to get their oats. In other words, I feel like it's getting to a point where you're now starting to see I think more and more of a potential opportunity for M and a When you look at Microsoft Activision, you look with the constant battles that the FTC has lost. I
don't think that something necessarily makes them nervous. I'm not saying that this is going to be easy to get through. But when it comes to Apple, that install based within Cooper Tino, that is the deal that I believe just makes a ton of sense, and I think many within the industry.
More and more talking about you mentioned the deal they did with getting Messi here to Major League Soccer.
What was that? I forget, like, how did that work out?
I mean, ultimately, I mean there's gonna be a part it's essentially a part rev share right that MESSI is getting, and there was.
Like an Apple. Apple's allowing MESSI to participate without Apple.
Messi is not an enemy, and I think that's and I think that's something where when you look at MESSI coming with that's done in terms of subscriber growth to the platform, it chows because look as much as Ted Lasso and some of the cameo and the content, Apple is obviously phenomenal. Right now, it's a mansion with not that much furniture, live sports content where it's at all right so.
Not to mention, I mean or despite of the fact that in spite of the fact that soccer is just boring, just to.
Tears American people lived in Germany, well, compared.
To football or basketball, you like soccer.
Look personally, I mean, I could watch soccer, but obviously the drum roll into what I've used college football. It's mecca, it's the mecca.
We are, right, Let's talk Penn Sate football a little bit. We'll digress preseason rank number seven. I love that rank, but boy, that feels high.
Oh.
I think this is probably one of the most elite defenses in all of college football. And in my opinion, now with al are quarterback, Now, this is something I truly believe. I think Franklin's put it together. And look, when you look at Big ten, you got Penn State, Ohio State, Michigan, which are all going to be three of the top six or seven. And I believe the tour slowly is being handed from SEC to Big ten.
There you go, now, our bosses.
I can hear him walking down saying, get off this discussion. All right, let's step back again on Apple the iPhone fifteen, is that the next one in September.
Is that do I upgrade?
Because my battery is already starting to bug me? So now I feel like it's what are you having or something?
Eleven?
Yeah, yeah, but that's but your situation.
Actually, if you look at it today, take a step back.
You have two hundred and forty million.
That have not upgrade their iPhone in four plus years. Now, battery life was phenomenal, so many were kind of like Paul, like you had iPhones maybe three four years. I think we're now getting what's going to be really four years.
Didn't Apple purposely set up the iPhone so that the battery would die right at the end of the twenty four month period? And again that's you know, is it old wives tale? Haven't they agreed to pay money to settle that?
Now, Look, that's something where obviously there's water under the bridge, but when you ultimately but but it does speak to what right now when you look at Apple as a stock, I think this is sort of halftime in the Super Bowl going in to what I viewed as a massive cycle. And even in China, despite all the noise, they're gaining three four hundred bits of market share, which is why we believe Apple here is a table pounder on the pullback.
All right, so we got you here in the studio. We got your Apple call. Give me us two or three more of the calls that you're talking to your clients about these days.
Look to the guidance heard around the world is gonna be Wednesday night with Jensen and Vidia, because this is i'd say, is probably one of the most important earnings calls in many, many years for tech because it all comes down to the godfather of AI. When you look at Jensen and Vidia, they see the demand, they see the use cases. I'm expecting bullishness Wednesday from them, and I think that's important for the rest of the tech sector.
They're gonna see across the board. And then it kind of parleads into what I believe is a key theme of cybersecurity. You show that pow out though Friday night, A lot of fears about that with the Friday night special that soap Opera's done, I wouldn't expect them to be doing any calls Friday night, but that was much better than feared, and I think it just shows that demands holding up well in cyber in cloud, in chips. We think the new tech bowl market is already begun, all.
Right, So the way you play that is in vidio, Yeah, Microsoft is also maybe Armholdings right, oh yeah, what is is that gonna been?
Yeah? Gives we got two minutes. It's a private company now owned by what owned by soft Bank? Yep uh, but in video wants to push that IPO and so to other big players. Is it gonna happen? We're gonna. I think we're gonna get the filing today.
Yeah, I mean, I think right now this is something the streets highly anticipating because it's all how do you play these teams? And you look at ARM you obviously have big player soft Bank and others in there, and I think it's something where this is the biggest tech theme in our opinion since nineteen eighty five, since start
of the Internet. So we are despite what we're seeing in the macro and everyone focused on every fed sort of meeting or every dinner where they give them speech, the reality is that that white flag is starting to get raised. It's a risk on and in my opinion, it's the biggest tech trend we've seen thirty years.
So is it fair to call arm an ai play?
Oh?
Yes, I'd clearly be able to call that an AI play, and Paul Matt I'd say the difference now is that in video right now they're the only game in town. But when you look down the road, you got Sue and AMD, you got Armhold, and you're gonna have other chip players in what's really gonna be a tidal wave of spend all right?
What else? What else you got for us?
Look, I would just I'd say overall, this is something where I think more and more investors are focused twenty twenty four. I think if you look at names like Tesla, we've obviously had to pull back post earnings, a lot of worries about price cuts in China. We think barksworts than bite ninety five percent. That has already in the rear view mirror, and I continue to view it. In
electric vehicles, it's Tesla's world. Everyone else's paying rent, but you are gonna have Look what's happened the three to win three area code and there's massive turnaround GM, massive turnaround forward what Farley's doing, and it's the biggest transformation to the auto industry since nineteen fifties.
Yeah, for sure. I mean if Folkswagen has invested overseas a ton as well, and we're getting uh, I'm driving the bm W XM right now, which is a hybrid, but I've driven the IX, which is very impressive. And they have a fleet electric vehicles coming out. Mercedes has the Equs and the EQUE.
Those are very and then yeah, exactly, and then you ask it as well, exactly, and then you're gonna have Paul with the cyber truck next going up to his tea time in the cyber truck.
Absolutely, Danives, thanks so much for joining us in two weeks until Penn State football kicks off. Dan Ives, Managing Director, senior equity analyst, web Bush Securities.
You're listening to the tape catch are live program Bloomberg Markets weekdays at ten am Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the tune in app, Bloomberg dot Com, and the.
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There has been talk recently about a new COVID variant. Nope, and I mean not here. There's I think it's safe to assume that there's going to be a variant of this virus around. For look, the Spanish flu was I think nineteen eighteen, right, and we still have variants of that floating around today that people kind of get every year. It's not a big deal, it's just how it works. But it could be a problem for the companies that
made the vaccines for the OG variants. Sam Fizzali joins us right now, head of European Research and Pharmaceuticals Analysis for Bloomberg Intelligence. Sam, great to have you on the program, and I want to say that first off, people can't people don't have to just listen to this program. No, you can watch it if you go on YouTube dot com search Bloomberg Radio and you can we stream live.
You were already an attractive man, Sam, but now with the beard, I would say you're at least forty percent sexier. Do you get a lot of thank you, a lot of compliments on that.
You know that means so much to me. If you hadn't said it, I mean, you've just made my day.
Basically, Well, I did not keep you, see you, I did not support this move to it to a beard. All right, so talk to us when I see you, talk talk to us. About the h the possibility. I mean, obviously there's gonna be new COVID variant, right.
Yeah, Look, I'm scared of Paul. I'm even more scared of you. So I thought very hard that long about writing another note on on COVID because the world has moved on, and rightly so, because our death rates are a lot, lot lot lower. We have vaccines, we have drugs, we have everything. So why did I do this? Because I'm interested in the companies that make the vaccines. We have three companies involved in the vaccine making. If you want to add novo vaccine, this four, if you want
to have five, et cetera, et cetera variant. What do they mean? Variants mean that the more mutations they have, the more likely they are not to respond to that initial shield that our vaccine gives us. So and that initial shield is just simply the two or three worth
of protection against an infection. And this new variant that has just crop tops in some sequences BA spot two Spot eighty six is the one that has got me a little bit worried, just like omicron did when it first appeared, because it has.
Thirty four mutations.
Now that means if it takes hold, and nobody knows whether it will or not, that it could be a variant that would not respond to our vaccines.
So Sam, what are the companies telling you, guys about any further boosters or vaccines.
That may be available this fall? What are they telling you?
Yeah, so they've all, Paul been making vaccines against the XBB variant, which is what the regulators asked.
Them to do.
That's the data they presented.
That was the variant that was mostly responsible for infections in the past few months. Now, the issue is that, as I said, this new variant, if it takes hold, that's very important to say because we don't know whether or not. It's a very for mutations different am acids different so it's very likely that our antibodies won't do as well with them. We will still have great protection against severe disease as we had with them the.
Front in most cases.
So what this means is that if they have carried on with XPB and say in a month month and a half, this variant becomes if it does rampant in terms of or the main variant of growing rapidly, that the vaccines just won't do a lot for that and of course that has to be tested. And if that's the case, then you have lower sales who wants a vaccine that doesn't do anything, and a higher stock write offs.
And that is not good, especially for modern I's already told us they're going to have three and a half billion to four billion of cost of goods manufacturing. You put that in the context that six to eight billion dollar guidance for sales, that's a humongous cost in terms of margin, gross margin or gross costs at least, So it would be a really difficult situation for them in terms of managing this.
In terms of us getting sick, I mean most of us have already had COVID once or twice, right, So how strong is our natural, naturally developed immunity to new variants.
Yeah, so that really does depend on your age or immune status. So there are of course people who are very elderly, so they do need a booster. There are people who are immune a compromise, who will always need protection from drugs or antibodies. Unfortunately, we don't have the antibodies anymore. For the average person, and I count myself as an average person, even though as you can see, I have a slightly white beard here.
You know, we're all around.
The same age, Paul and I. You're obviously decades younger than us. We're likely to be okay. Now, of course we all have a risk of long COVID or slightly longer a response to the virus, but we should mostly be okay with what we've already had. Really, the majority of people don't.
Need another booster shop.
It is those people who are most at risks immune systems are not as adept at dealing with rapidly changing viruses who need the most help.
But the same is true with the flu, right, so this is becoming more of a flu like risk.
Yeah, except you know, I mean there's the flu around at the minute, at least in the northern hemisphere, right, and then we have a wave of COVID. You can tell without needing tests.
And all that.
If you look at the prescriptions for paxlovied in the Bloomberg terminal, which you can look at if you had one, you can see that the prescriptions are going up like that. That tells you that community infections are on the rise and that people who need paxlobed are hopefully getting them. But obviously a lot of physicians are still worried about some nonsense called Paxlovid rebound, which has nothing to do with the drug.
That is where you can see that there.
Is clearly in August, because maybe it's two hot people all congregating inside. That's what happens in the winter. So this this virus is behaving a little bit differently. Still, we're only three years into it, right.
So Sam, how about for the companies and the income statements for the Moderners and the Pfizers of the world, were they in terms of transitioning away from I guess the reliance on these COVID drugs into just the normal course of business.
Yeah, Fiser obviously, Paul, we have to put Vizer aside because they have a you know, sixty odd billion dollar guidance for twenty twenty three, of which only about thirty percent comes from vaxslovic plus the vaccine Moderna.
And Biontic, that's pretty much their revenue line today. And I think that's going to stay the case for Biontics certainly in the for the next foreseeable and Moderna possibly into twenty twenty four to twenty twenty five, when there are other vaccine for respiratorcs in situal virus is likely to kick in in a very competitive market.
Yeah, looking at the Pfizer stock that's come down very hard from it's high here.
So what's the kind of data fat shot they need? We go v or ozentpe. Oh, yeah, we need to get They need the opposite.
They need something to pattern the ship price.
They need that exactly.
All right, next time we get you all, we'll talk about some of those weight loss drugs, because they are all over the place and all over the new san
Fazelli he's head of European Research. Is also the pharmaceuticals analysts over there for Bloomberg in intelligence, is was our go to is our go to guy on all things pharma, including during that time of the pandemic and kind of we're all kind of getting up the learning curve of the disease and of more importantly the vaccines which have been so effective.
You're listening to the tape Cat's are live program Bloomberg Markets weekdays at ten am Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the tune in app, Bloomberg dot Com, and the.
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You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station, just say Alexa playing Bloomberg eleven thirty.
Let's get to cars right now, seeing as Pebble Beach kicked off last week. And uh it's I guess, a mecca for anything from classic cars to brand new cars. Uh Ford, for example, unveiled their eight hundred horsepower Mustang gt D and there are a number of other unveilings, but I think really it's all about the collectors uh in in Monterey. Dave Meggers joins us right now, CEO of Meekham Auctions. Dave, thanks so much for coming onto
the show with us. Talk to me about your take on the what do you call it the h concourse concourse to elegance and and and what was seen out in California this week.
Well, you know, Monterey Car Week is the is the mecca for for car collectors every year and every but he looks looks forward to coming to Monterey. All of the major auction houses are there. Of course, the Concourse took place yesterday. All manufacturers have have some kind of a display there as well, and it's just it's just a great place to be if you're if you're a car person.
And last year Car Week roared back from a little bit of a hiatus because of the pandemic.
And I think this year what I saw was the enthusiasm continued to climb, and I would say this year money Car Week was back in full force.
Yeah.
It's funny Matt Mice number three offspring, who's now twenty five, when he was a teenager and even younger.
He's a car not like like you.
He and his buddies would sneak in to the del Monte golf course at the Higher Regency where they all these cars out.
On the golf course. It's just amazing and it's great stuff.
Yeah.
Of course that del Monte golf Course at the Hiatt is the Meekam auction and that's right. We like to think that's the best option on it, and so it's a beautiful display. This year we had six hundred cars that were all displayed out on the golf course on the fairways.
That's always a great look.
We're the only auction company that is able to display out on a golf course like that. And we had a great collection this year that had seven English cars, seven Porsches, vintage Porches and thirteen vintage Ferraris. We called it the blow Chase Chanel Fast Collection, which translates into fast fast Fast.
That collection was Italian, German and English. So what did you, guys? What did you What were the notable sales? What would you say the biggest that stand out for you?
Well, I think my observation was across the entire peninsula for the week, I would say the keyword was Ferrari.
There were a.
Number of significant Ferraris that were on the peninsula, a lot of them for sale.
Mikon was no exception. I think four out of the top six cars that we sold.
Were Ferraris, two of them in the three million and over three million dollar range of a sixty six Forrari two to seventy five GTV sixty alloy and a nineteen ninety Ferrari F forty. Those those are already significantly popular, and I would suspect that when we when all the numbers are in, we're still counting and we're still selling, but probably seven of the.
Top ten cars are auction that sold will be Ferraris.
Hey, Dave, give them a sense.
Because I didn't really know about this whole world until you know, I started going to the concourse into all this shows all around Monterey and it really.
Is a special time. There's something for everybody out there.
Give us a sense of how the market is now in terms of the demand, the pricing, the value, because I know these are very substantial investments for a lot of people, and they look at them and they treat them just like they would their stock or bond portfolio. Talk about this is a marketplace.
Yeah, Well, first of all, that you know, there are two types of collectors. There are those that collect because there's some emotional or personal attachment to the cars that they have in their collection, and then there are those
that are purely transactional financial making investments. And of course the collector car market has shown significant returns as an alternative investment over the last ten to twenty years, averaging over thirty percent return per year, and of course some brand's doing better than others, Ferrari of course leading the way. But the market to the last I would say the last two years since coming out of the pandemic, has
been absolutely red hot. We've been seeing thirty percent increases and prices annually, if not more than that for certain select cars, and it truly has been a seller's market. I would say this year, in twenty twenty three, we're seeing the prices not accelerating as fast as they have the last couple of years, which is beneficial of course to buyers and collectors. And my observation is right now we have a balance that's it's still a great market
for sellers. They're still seeing strong prices, but it's a little more reasonable and easier to catch the market, if you will, if you're a buyer as well, and that's resulting in great sales.
What data do you rely on or what people do you rely on to help you set you know, the initial prices. I look at some cars, you know, just just from my experience as a kid who love, for example, the Lamborghini Cuntosh or the Ferrari threeh eight, you know, and there were times when they were going for twenty five thousand dollars and then times when they were going for two fifty and more. So, who do you rely on or what do you rely on to get the data to price these vehicles well?
As I'm sure you're aware, Miekam has been in this business for thirty five years and we are the largest collector car auction company in the world worlds selling roughly fifteen thousand cars a year at live auction for a little over eight hundred million dollars. So primarily we rely on our own expertise and our own knowledge of the market. But all of the cars that come to our auction
are consigned cars. We're an auctioneer selling consignment cars for collectors, and collectors have an idea of their particular collection or their particular car, what they believe that's worth, and of course they keep abreast of the market for their particular area of interest, and.
We work with the collectors.
We combine our expertise and their expectations to help them understand what we think the pricing is in the current marketplace.
David seems, you know when I spend a lot of time in Carmel, and you know during car Week there'll be people from all over the world, and a lot of Italians in particular. Who comes to the Monterey Peninsula here in August for all of these auctions, it seems like it's a international affair.
Yeah, will do sixteen auctions this year, and I would say of those sixteen, three of them our national events. Most of them are more regional in scope Kassimi, Florida. Of course, the world's largest collector car auction in January is a national and somewhat international event. Our second biggest event in Indianapolis, Indiana in the Spring Classic in May, again an international event, mostly national, but certainly not regional. Monterey is the one exception where I would say primarily
it is international. Of course, there are a lot of US domestic buyers and sellers, but just folks that I talked to over the last three or four days and interviews that I've done from Germany, from France, from Italy, from Australia, from Great Britain.
There are a lot of accidents at the auction.
So is your market any predictor for the overall economy because here on Global Wall Street, Dave, we've been talking about a recession here for will more than a year. How does your market simply reflect what's going on in the economy.
Well, what we've seen, and this would go back to I would say pre two thousand and eight even and in some cases pre nineteen ninety one, when we had
significant issues in the economies before. What we've seen is that the collector car market is relatively resilient and that's because, just antecdotally in my mind, when things are going very very well, investors collectors feel very secure in their financial environment, very flushed with cash, if you will, and it's time to maybe use some of that to invest.
In something in a collector car, something that I've wanted for a very, very long time.
And conversely, when things are going very poorly, we see a lot of money that comes out of the market because of the uncertainty and the fear that's in the markets. And as money comes out of the market, that money is looking for a home. And as I mentioned previously, the collector car market has been a great alternative investment asset and you get to drive it on Sundays down to meet your friends.
So a lot of.
Money we see come out of the market goes into collector cars during that period. So we've I don't know that we in the collector car business are an indicator of what might be going on in the economy, and I would certainly say we are relatively resilient to what goes on in the economy.
All Right, Dave, thanks for joining us. I know it's been a busy, busy week. You just concluded out there on the Monterey Peninsula and for those car people out there who haven't been, it is a.
Bucket list thing to do. It is a great week. They've major CEO of Meek Them Auctions. Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg Markets podcast. You can subscribe and listen to interviews at Apple Podcasts or whatever podcast platform you prefer. I'm Matt Miller. I'm on Twitter at Matt Miller nineteen seventy three. And I'm Paul Sweeney. I'm on Twitter at Ptsweeney.
Before the podcast, you can always catch us worldwide at Bloomberg Radio