Jobs Print Takes 50bp July Rate Cut Off Table: Dudley

in the month of June. Kind of break that down and gives a sense of what it means and what the FED, how the FED might react. We welcome Bill Dudley. Bill is a senior research scholar Prince University Center for Economic Policy. Is also a former Federal Reserve Bank of New York President. Bill. We're gonna start off by listening to National Economic Council Director Larry Cudlow. He spoke with

Bloomberg Television following this morning's job report. Let's take a listen. Now, I do you have an inverted YO curve, which I think is somewhat problesome for the longer term, but the break evens on the inflation you know, the tips break evens the five year Jonathan is one and a half percent, and that's the CPI number. So the pc deflated that the FED uses would be about thirty basis points less

than that. So you're one a quarter percent inflation, which is way below the Fed's target and what most people want. And that's the reason I think they should take back the interest rate hike. So Mr Cutler saying, take back the December rate hike, Bill, Bill Dudley, what do you think? Well, I think it's still up in the air what the Fed is gonna do at the July of from C meeting.

I mean this, this report was stronger than expected, and so I think what it does is it takes the fifty basis points easing idea off the table lease for the time being. And then the question is do you do to stand pat wait for more information or do you cut base points. Larry Cudlos obviously making the case of the Fed should cut rates because inflation expectations are you know, blow two. But the Fed has also taken into into account the fact that the economy looks like

it's continuing to grow at a decent place. Payroll gains are stronger than what's sustainable over the long run. You know, steady stage is probably a hundred thousand of months to keep the unemployer rates steady. So I think there's gonna be an interesting debate. And obviously we have three and app more weeks of data before the FED meets, so I think it's still very much up in the air what the Fit's going to do with the July meeting. Former New York FED at President, I'm so excited that

we have you today. One question that I keep coming back to is what is the feds ultimate goal? What is their ultimate objective and mandate? What's your view on that? Well, obviously they want to keep the economic expansion going, and there's risks on both sides. Risk on one side is that if they pursue a too easy Monterrey policy, inflation rises and then they have to slam in the brakes and that generates recessions. So that's risk on one side.

Risk on the other side is that they tightened Entrey policy prematurely and that keeps inflation below their two long term objective. Uh and the comedy softens and people have basically asked to FED, why do you tighten Madre policy when inflation was below your objective, and so they're trying to balance those two risks. Do you think that it is wise for them to cut rates by at least fifty basis points by your end as markets are currently pricing in. Well, I mean, obviously depends on how the

economy evolves. I don't see the economy is that week. I see the econmy is doing fine. It seems to me like it's growing about trend or maybe a little bit above trend. The labor market, in my mind, still looks like it's continuing to gradually tighten. So I guess if I were sitting there at the fo C, I'd be more on the patient camp. I probably would at the July meeting, I probably would say, let's let's have a statement that doesn't close the door to future eason,

but let's let's wait and get some more information. So build this. FED has said publicly that it is data dependent aside from labor statistics. What do you think the Fed's really focusing on right now? Well, I think they are focused on, you know, one, what's the trajectory for GDP growth in the state of the labor market. But to they're also, as Larry Cutlows pointed out, they're also focused on inflation. The fact is inflation has come in

below their expectations. So the core personal consumption expenditure deflator is rising one point six percent on a year over year basis, below the two goal. And also, as as Larry pointed out, inflation expectations look like they've dropped a bit. So that's another reason for the Fed to consider easy policy. And there's basically three paths to easing. One is growth is weaker than expected. The second path to easing is

that inflation turns out to be lower than expected. And the third is that risk in the in the economic out look goes up because of perhaps uncertainty about trade policy. So there's lots of paths to get the Fed to an easier montroy policy. And I think that's really why

easing is priced into the markets right now. When you were ahead of the New York Fed, one of the roles of that agency is to really monitor financial stability financial market, and I'm wondering what you see as the potential risks that are building with respect to inflated asset values if the Fed does cut rates, and given how much. How low rates have been kept for as long as they have Well, I think at the end of the day, I mean they're they're gonna be focused mostly on the

growth outlook and the inflation out look. But they do have to be aware of the fact that there's not much evidence right now that Matrey policy is tight and if you look at financial conditions, financial conditions do seem actually quite supportive for growth. So the strongest argument to hold off, frankly, is that policy Monterrey policy is not holding back the US economy to any measurable degree that I can see. So BUILD Chairman pal has suggested that

the FED might end it's quantitative tightening. Do you think that's a good idea. Well, they've already said that that they're going to bring that to the end at the end of September. There's been some speculation though that if they cut rates in if the July means, they might also move the ending of their balance sheet up to to to that at that point in time, I personally think they should just keep the balance sheet policy as

it is today. We're going to continue to run our securities until September uh and then and bring that to a close I mean, basically tying the short term rate decision to the balance sheet decision I think is inappropriate right now, because the balance sheet decision is not motivated by, you know, what the FEDS trying to do in terms of the stance of monetary policy. It's motivated by how much reserves the Fed thinks should be in the banking

system consistent with the efficient execution of monetary policy. And that's why they decided that they were going to end it in September. So I think they just should stick to that decision. So you said that monetary policy is not holding back the economy, that is the message when

you look at the easy financial conditions. What would a rate cut accomplish then, Well, I think the rate cut would be you know, basically would be insurance, would be basically saying, look, we're unhappy with some of the uncertainty about the global growth outlook, and also would be a way of saying that we're on happy with inflation being

below er two percent of objectives. So I don't think that, you know, fundamentally, it would matter that much to the economy if the Fed cut twenty five basis points or didn't cut twenty five basis points but be a way of uh exhibiting some unhappiness with I think the inflation trajectory so build. President Trump is out with some tweets this morning on the job's number and some other topics. But one of the tweets says the Trump says the FED quote doesn't know what they are doing. End quote.

Tweets like that, to what extent do you think they impact members of the FED end or policy? Well, I think that the FED has been doing a pretty good job and we're in the we're basically now have the longest economic expansion at u S history, and I think, well, the President, with what wants to take most of the credit for that. I think the FED does are some

some credit as well. Um, I think that basically the Trump's pressure on the FED really actually probably is counterproductive in the sense that the FED doesn't want to do something that is seen as caving into presidential rusher. They want to be seen as doing something that's appropriate given the economic outlook. So at anything, if anything, I think this probably makes the set a little bit more stubborn

in terms of moving interest rates. Yet, President Trump has been speaking and he has continued to speak we'll bring you the headlines as they come out, saying that that FED cutting rates would help the economy, and he's very happy about the jobs numbers still with US Bill Dudley, who is the former New York FED President. Uh. You know, one interesting sort of outcome of this strong job's report has been a stronger dollar, with the dollar surging against

peers today. This has also been a concern of President Trump's. He has tweeted about the fact that he would like to see it weaker, talked about currency manipulation. Would it be better for the U. S economy if the dollar were weaker at this point? I don't. I don't understand the argument. We're basically at full employment. Uh, economy is doing fine, it's growing at an above trent pace. Why would I want the currency to be weaker? Uh that all that would do is reduce the US households purchasing

power of foreign goods and services. Um. You know, I also understand why a weaker currency is something that you want when you're operating an economy pretty close to full employment. I can understand a weaker currency of the economy is very weak and you're having trouble getting traction coming out of a recession by at the time when the economy is pretty close to full employment. I don't understand why

you don't want a weaker currency at that point. So, but we've had economists and fund managers comment over the last several months that, uh, they think a recession by mid is a possibility, maybe a likelihood. What are your

thoughts there. Economic expansions don't die of old age. They usually die because either the either there's an inflation problem and the federal reserves response to that by tightening Monterrey policy, uh, making Monterrey policy tight, or there's a big shock to the economy that the FED just can't react quickly enough to offset. There's not enough inflation for the FED respond aggressively to tighten Madre policy. So I think the risk of the receptive of a recession from that source is

very very low. Obviously, there is a risk of a shock coming from the rest of the world, for in the U s econmun But you know, the biggest one that I think this trade policy. If trade policy, if more confusion is created about what US trade policy is, and that creates uncertainty about how businesses should invest, where they should invest, how they should orient their supply chains. That's probably the biggest risk of the economy right now, what happens in terms of US trade policy. Bill Dudley,

thank you so much for being with us today. Bill Dudley, former New York Fed President and senior researcher at Princeton University Center for Economic Policy Studies, also a contributor to Bloomberg Opinion, Commenting on today's jobs report, Well, it is Jobs Day today, and what to day it is. The US economy added two thousand jobs in the month of June. You get a sense of what that means for the US economy and FED policy going forward. To welcome our

next guest, Jim Bianco. Jim as president and founder of Bianco Research. Jim, thanks so much for joining us. Just give us your first quick take on what you think the jobs report today means for the Fed Reserve. I think it means that the subtle Reserve is now closer to making a mistake by not cutting rates at the July meeting, and they're going to probably push this off. I think the markets have been telling us that the funds rate has been too high, the Fed one too far.

Last year, one fund statistic for you. There's forty trillion dollars worth of sovereign developed market debt in the world and it has a yield of less than the funds rate. Right now, the funds rate is becoming an outlier. Is one of the highest interest rates in the world. It needs to come down. The FED is going to look at this strong payroll number thinking they don't have to do that, and I think what you're seeing in the markets is a reaction that they may may make a

mistake by not cutting rates. So, Jim, I know that you your voice, and this is particularly important because the White House actually considered you for one of the open positions on the Fed's board that you are interviewed for that. Can you just talk a little bit about what it was like interviewing with them. What were their questions to you? Uh? It was an amazing experience to be able to do something like that, and I'm honored that they gave me

the opportunity to do it. Uh. They just asked me about FED policy, They asked me about my views of the world. Uh. They interviewed me because I'm a bit different than their typical candidate. Because Uh, the FED works through the financial channel, and they considered the idea of having somebody from a financial markets background as opposed to a traditional PhD background as a as a candidate, and I was one of the few, if I don't know, maybe the only one that was chosen with that kind

of with that kind of background. And so it was it was a very you know, interesting, well uh ranging interview of a lot of different subjects, mainly about FED policy in the economy. So Jim Baith, based upon that interview process, what do you think the FED is is or what do you think the administration is looking for

in the FED going forward? I think that you know, if you listen to Larry Cudlow or if you listen to any of the other administration officials, that they do believe that the Phillips curve, this idea that inflation and the employment or growth are somehow linked in a predictable manner, has been broken down. That you could see again today in the payroll report two four thousand jobs created and

there was no uptick in wage growth. This is just basically thrown all of the FED models and all of the economic models forget to FED, all the economic models you know, on their ear because this wasn't supposed to happen, meaning that when you have the economy growing this fast and you have an unemployment this low for this longer period of time to really show no major worries about wage inflation, let alone overall inflation. I think that that's

been a big theme of THEIRS. It's been a big theme of mind and a number of other people as well too, that we are in a different type of inflation world and we don't need to have interest rates as high as we did, say in previous cycles, when

the relationship between unemployment inflation was different. So, Jim, when we asked about the jobs report, when Paul asked you, you said, Uh, it just sort of confirms that if the Fed made a mistake in December and that they should keep rates lower than where they are currently and

reverse the mistake in December and accommodate more. And I'm trying to figure out what the goal of the Fed here, I mean, how much will that actually boost the real economy for the Federal Reserve to cut rates by basis points. Some traders are now predicting, Yeah, you know a lot

of people asked that question a lot. You know that in the assumption there is that nobody cares about the level of interest rates, that if you were to lower interest rates, that that would not be anywhat of a stimulus towards mortgages and the housing market, or towards autos and auto loans. You know, Wall Street doesn't nobody, nobody in Wall Street bothers with interest rates. They're not at all interested in whether or not they move up or down.

Of course, this is all ridiculous. It is an important factor in the economy, and I do think that if nothing else, what we're doing is correcting an imbalance, that the rates are too high, and that it may not necessarily mean that we're trying to stimulate the economy by lowering them, but more along the lines of we're trying to stop hurting the economy by keeping them where they

are now. The inverted yield curve, that is a signal that that is that the yield on the tenure note is lower than the yield on the three month bill. That is a signal that rates are too high, and that if we leave that in place for month after month, and that would happen if we didn't cut rates, that cumulative effect could really retard the economy, and so I think that that needs to be respected and that what we're probably doing here not is injecting stimulus, but removing restrictiveness.

I know a lot of people have a hard time with this, thinking how can two and a half percent interest rates be restrictive because they've got this long history, and how will remind them it's one of the highest developed world rates in the world. Everybody else is lower, and there's twelve trillion dollars almost thirteen of negative interest rates. We are an outlier and that is why it is restrictive, because rich interest rates should be viewed in context with

all other interest rates. Jim Bianco, always a wonderful thing having you on the show. Thank you so much for spending your post July four Friday with us. Jim Bianco, President and founder of Bianco Research, also someone who has interviewed A four A an open fed position by the current White House. When it comes to Deutsche Bank, the question is how far will its planned cuts go, not whether there will be cuts and where will those cuts be most focused? Joining us down to talk about that.

Stephen Aaron's, German banks reporter for Bloomberg News, joining us from Frankfort. Stephen, I want to just talk about the timeline. We've been talking about Deutsche Bank for a while. Are we getting closer to the bank actually announcing some sort of restructuring plan that we can then view as fact. Absolutely, we're moving. We're moving much closer the the supervisory board meaning that is likely to adopt the plan will take

place on Sunday. We've been told the bank hasn't officially CONFIRMEDNUS, but it's very likely to happen, and that will then trigger under German securities law, will trigger a a obligation to inform the market. So expect something on Sunday. Uh And in fact, the the the announcement has already begun, with the bank saying today that the investment banking had god Ritchie's leaving the bank. So that's the first instance of the whole big plan now moving into action. So, Stephen,

how expansive do you expect the restructuring to be. It's going to be big, possibly or even probably the biggest restructuring of Dutch Bank and its investment banking division, particularly in in decades. The job clubs could reach up to twenty tho probably stretched out over several years, but still it's a very large number. It's it would be more than fifth of the current workforce. The cuts will also

very much hit the US. Again, it's not clear over what timeline and just how much, but it's clear that the face of the U S operations will will fundamentally change. There has been some uh some speculation, including by as published in Bloomberg News, that Deutsche Bank will get out of equities, trading, sales, research, etcetera. In the United States also that potentially could largely just newter the investment bank.

We did see the investment banking chief of Deutsche Bank leaving the bank today or at least announcing that he is going to be departing. What will the restructure Deutsche Bank look like. It's going to be much more focused on companies, large companies and European large companies then it has been, and shifting away from a previous focus on

institutional investors. So the trading components for those investors trading equity, these trading fixed income will be lower, especially over time, and parts that that cater to the capital markets needs and then the general banking needs of leuch corporate such as trade finance, cash management. Those businesses will will like her grow, Steve, do you expect Deutsche Bank in any way, shape or form to uh admit that they have I guess given up their aspirations to be a truly global

investment bank here. I mean, they're not gonna say it like that, right, They're gonna They're gonna highlight just that they continue to have a global footprint. I'm not sure they're gonna completely shutter any any in outposts any countries completely. They probably, as you said, they may shut it completely the US equities, but it's not clear whether any countries will completely be dissolved the presence there so they will continue to head at the global presence. But yes, they

will admit that there are your your focused banks. They have been admitting this actually for a while, and they're not going to claim anymore that they can still compete with the big US investment banks that now in the trading area especially have a much bigger presence than Deutsche Bank. Bank shares today up three point eight percent. I'm looking at the A d R s in the United States. I'm wondering whether there's any discussions still about a possible merger.

I know that Commerce Bank and TB. We're looking at a potential tie up that fell through. Is that basically off the table? That concept definitely? For now. This restructuring now will is designed to happen without any big murder. They're still looking to grow their asset management business DWS. They're looking for takeovers there, but the bank itself is

not currently looking at anything. They were previously talked with with Commerce bank A as you said, and they've even had some brief informal talks with ubs, but for as long as the share price is a low as it is now, that's not something that will happen, Steve. Do you expect Deutsche Bank to address the home market Germany? Uh,

the concerns that it's tremendously over banked. Um. Kind of what is their strategy to try to shore up the profitability of their core market, job cuts and cost cuts Again in a nutshell, they earning money in the German freetail markets are extremely difficult. Interest rates set by the central banks are extremely low and so margins are low and compared to the competition is extremely tough. So the only way you can actually boost profitability is by taking

out costs. And they have said that they continue to aim cutting the workforce in the German retail and commercial clients business by about two thousand a year. That's going to continue and uh and so we'll see if that at some point will actually yield a profitability that they think is sufficient. Steve Aarons, thank you so much. Steve as a German banks reporter Bloomberg News based in Frankfurt, focusing on Deutsche Bank at least. I'm not sure if you know this about me, but I am quite the

grill master. I can cook just about anything on the grill and in a suit, and oftentimes in the full disclosure, Paul Sweeney has gone full cash today talking. We're talking full cash Paul Sweeney style, which is basically is pajamas with khakis and and and and in a collar shirt but not a suit exactly. So I mean, I think I've cooked just about anything there is to cook on a grill. But this Bloomberg Business Week, they were out with a story today that is making me rethink my strategy.

Kate Crater. Kate is the food editor for Bloomberg Pursuits. Kate, thanks so much for joining us. This is articles, It's just fantastic. It's basically what not to grill on a grill, which is everything, which is almost everything, But let's start with the most obvious. Talk to me about the hamburger thing.

I know, yeah, this caused some controversy at my unfortunately life look out this weekend, um yesterday, because we talked to a bunch of chefs and they said, actually, if you want the best burger, you shouldn't put it on the grill because you're losing like valuable fat and juices is just dripping into the fire. And so we are asking people to step away from the grill with the

burger patties. This is ridiculous. I'm sorry, kay I come on, you're basically saying to people, you know, you guys think you could grill, but you you kind of you kind of stink stink at it. So just stop, I mean, give me a break. I mean, is it just the optical taste or or what's the I mean, it's basically no optical taste. I mean, of course, this is America and people can do what they want and they can

grill whatever they want. But we did. It's um, it actually is kind of funny to think, like chefs watch amateur cooks um at the grill, maybe like Paul and are like, oh, you're doing that wrong. He just he just red in the eyes. He's like, I'm no amateur. Right, that's okay. Um, So tell us about this this article. You guys, you went out and you talk to interviewed chefs kind of all over the place about different types of food, right, exactly, right, Yeah, it's high grilling season,

and so you know it really is fun. Like everybody, it's the it's high grilling season and food taste solicitus on the grill. But in fact, if you want things to be perfect, some of some things really shouldn't be on shouldn't be cooked on the grill. So something like burgers. Of course, I'm not sure how many people we really are going to dissuade from from putting patties on the grill, but some things like you see them in restaurants, santy restaurants,

like grilled caesar salad. And it turns out that lettuces actually are not very good on the grill because they're so full of water that they will wilt and burn as you cook them, So you really shouldn't And likewise, another stuff from Washington, D C. Doesn't like to grill fruit because even though it's sometimes goodt if you grow something like peaches, they disintegrate on the grill and they also flavor your grill and they pick up any flavors that are there. So if you just cook some fish,

then your peaches are gonna taste like fish. That's so good. So I was reading this this article, and I love that you did it. It got me really heated with a couple of the things. The Burghers really was just like, you know, you might as well throw something at the screen. You can let us, I mean, okay, whatever, you let people do what they want to do. There were some good points so, and I will say the whole concept of peeled shrimp on a grill, it does drive them out.

And they were saying that there is a way to do it so that it won't dry them out. Right, Yeah, no, exactly if you have sell on shrimp, if you buy shrimp that aren't you know, that aren't pre peeled, then they are marvelous on the grill. That's really good is when you peel them, because they're really delicate and they're gonna burn. They're either going to burn or not cook well, depending on how high your heat is. And we actually

looked at this a couple of years ago too. And another thing that people really shouldn't grill or shishka bab's with mixed you know, you see them and they look really to me, great, Come on, what are you gonna do? A boiler? So I'm gonna on a boiler. But the thing that you can do is put the same things on. So you can put like all your meat on one skewer and then you can put things like cherry tomatoes

on another. But when you mix them up, the onions, like, I don't know if you've ever had them, but it's really hard to get onions to cook in a way that you want to eat them if it's next to something that cooks quickly, like shrimp. So just divide. It's just you just make like neat little piles, have each have a dedicated kebab, and then you are good to go. All right, I'm learning something and learning something, so let's go.

Let's go to I mean, the one thing that made sense to me I saw in your article bacon, uh, is that just you know, the kind of the old fire hazard things. And I think I've almost you know, said, burn your house down. Yeah, fireworks and also uncooked sausages. So a lot of people cook something like kill Boss that's already cooked and that's fine, like totally grilled that

grill that would fide be happy. But if you have, if you have, there's a lot of these artisanal uncooked ossages that you see, you know, links and links of them attached, or stick cut bacon, and that is like a fire hazard. As you were saying, you know, you can start a fire with all the fat in there, and it also won't cook well, you know, because it's probably gonna burn on the outside while it's still raw on the inside, and then you can't eat it, so

you really shouldn't. And plus like if it's in the sausage and it's a casing, it can explode out. So there you go. All right, Well, Kate, you said that this caused a lot of controversy at the cook out that you had yesterday. What were people most jazzed over? Most ignited burger? I would say people were most ignited over the burgers. They really were, like, you can't tell me, top chefs can't tell me how to cook my burgers. But you know, actually there were people. I couldn't believe

I had any support here. But my friend had worked as a fry cook for a while at the Beach Club, and he was like, it's true. If I'm cooking burgers for people who are standing there, I will cook it on a grill. But if I'm cooking my own burger, I cook it on a flat top. So I have some backup. So I see in the you spoke to the owner of Latin Latin, you know, Latin Grand Central Terminal Um in New York, and they said, yeah, they said, do not cook tortillas. That's something I've never even thought

about cooking. You know what I think when people are making tacos, because it's a fun thing to do. You know, people are definitely expanding their repertoires on the grill. And you see people maybe cooking like chicken that they're going to put, you know, in to make tacos with. And that's really fun. But and so to facilitate it, some people will throw tortillas on the grill. And this guy is clearly a purist, the sky Julian Messina, and he's like, Nope,

don't do it. Just it's better to wrap them in foil, or you can you can like keep them on again, you can heap them on a plantcha, you know, taking a step back, I do have to say, as the mother of two boys and who has understood the the importance of time, these chefs are kind of opening themselves up to sort of criticism that they're not really facing reality.

I mean, it is so easy to throw things on a grill and fast and convenient that the idea of saying, well, you know, it's not perfect because maybe leads lightly will did is absolutely ridiculous for people who are trying to serve a lot of people, or who have small children. I mean, is there a caveat here that this is just their per personal preferences. Are they basically saying you're a heathen if you do it this way? No, I

think I think all of them will allow. I mean, I think it would be hard pressed to find a check who was not cooked at burger on a grill. So I'm not sure any of them this is like the hill they're going to die on. But but they're saying, if you want the ultimate burger, like the best burger, it really is good cooked on a flat top, because then you developed that crust like it gets that delicious charred crust caramelized and you're not losing like juices and

fat to the fire. But I can guarantee you that I'm sure they have all cooked burgers on the grill, and I'm sure in the future you will be able to bust them all cooking burgers on the grill. So, Kate, are people in your reporting are you finding that people are, you know, grilling as much or more than they used to. Yeah, I know people love it and people are grilling year round. Now that's the thing. You can buy so many different kinds of girls, whether you have like a small city

apartment or a huge backyard. Um, there's so many different growth that are being built now to suit all kinds of lifestyles and the way people live. So people love to grill. And the other thing that's cool is you can grow over all kinds of things. You know, used to be the people were which is maybe talk about would, but now they talk about a specific kind of wood that they want to cook on. People are really geeking

out on it and it's kind of fantastic. So Kate, if you are going to a barbecue at someone's house, what should you bring to the barbecue as a guest, that's a great less um. I think. I always think it's good to bring a bottle of rose because it's the drink of the summer, you know, and you know, then you don't have to fight about what people are going to grill on, you know, whether or not you should be grilling those burger patties. But um, what kind

of barbecues you go to? One more people drink a lot of rose, I guess, But but I think, um, I think that's always a good thing. I think bringing dessert is good. You can find so many great, you know, packaged cookies and they come in like these really cool tins, or you know what else is there? You know what? Actually I brought to a party the other day because it's like such prime season as strawberries. So no I

would eat cookies. But if you can find the fruit that's in season, there's so many farmers markets now, and if you get just like a really nice little basket of something, there's nothing better than that. Kay creator, thank you so much, Katis food editor, if you couldn't tell for Bloomberg Pursuits and just a fantastic article in the

Bloomberg Business Week magazine. It's essentially the takeaways kind of what not to grill and why, and it's and the y comes from some famous chefs who kind of, you know, they kind of know where they're doing. Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg Penl podcastst You can subscribe and listen to interviews at Apple Podcasts or whatever podcast platform you prefer. Paul Sweeney, I'm on Twitter at pt Sweeney. I'm Lisa abram Woyit's I'm on Twitter at Lisa abram woits one

before the podcast. You can always catch us worldwide on'm Bloomberg Radio