Jobs, Midterms, and Twitter (Podcast)

He is a vice president at Attico. Part let's start off with the jobs numbers here because not only as mid terms went to be one of the major drivers with the jobs numbers as well. John, apologies on my part. Let's start with your initial reaction to the jobs numbers today. What was great was, you know, you see the markets going up and down. There's a lot of good in this job's report, um and then and then there's ways that you know, you could interpret it a little bit differently.

But what I love about it wage growth, you know, starting to slow down. We're seeing stability that's going to allow companies that you know, that confidence to continue to hire. The quits are holding steady, so some of the retention strategies that are employers are putting in really slowing down the churn that we saw a couple of quarters ago. So I like to that consistency. One of the things that Pals dated though, was that demand, can you know

substantially is exceeding supply right now? So I think we do need to look at that labor participation rate. We're holding flat there. Um, we've got to continue to focus on upskilling and reskilling these workers so we can get some of those leisure and hospitality colleagues that really haven't been enjoying the fruit right now since COVID. We need to get them in some other industries right now so we can uptake this participation rate. And I think I

think we're gonna be in a good spot. But yeah, there's still some pause I think in the labor market, waiting to see what happens with these midterms. Yeah, it's a really interesting point you make there. I want to get into that a little bit more about the dislocation between the openings that we're seeing and the participation rate. Is that starting to come together in terms of people getting into the jobs that are open or are we are still seeing a gap there. We're still seeing a

gap there, but we're making progress. We're seeing employers take a look at their job descriptions, looking at the you know, the barriers to entry. Do you need a high school diploma? Can we do some on the job training. We're also seeing, you know, a re emergence of some vocational and technical trade schools coming up. You know, if we can't upscale or rescale, we're gonna have to create some workers to come in. So I see people getting more creative, opening

up their days and letting letting new people come in. Um, it's just a question of that the culture change. It's going to take a little bit more time and as we continue, you know, to improve. We're seeing so much hiring and healthcare has been consistent, I mean, seven thousand per month compared to nine thousand per month twenty two versus twenty one. So what a huge investment in infrastructure.

But but you're right, there's a dislocation by sector and until we can get the whole up in that participation rate, UM, we still have to stay focused on reskilling and upskilling workers. Well, speaking of a diversion by sector, I I'm interested in the oil and gas sector specifically. Believe only four hundred jobs were added in that sector sector that the Biden administration has been actively trying to really ramp up in

terms of production. In turn, the industry saying, look, we are still in dealing with supply chain issues despite these record profits. We can't ramp up production that quickly. Where does the jobs market falls. They're a little bit of catch up to be played by that sector. I think when you look at energy in general, it's been it's been growing. Energy has been a growing sector. So you know this this comes into can we get people to work around the clock, can we get second third shifts?

You know, oil industry is not a nine to five job, so you're looking at a type of worker. Um, that's a very narrow base. So again this comes down to, you know, we need to reskill and bring people in two different industries like energy, like healthcare that are growing. Um, it's it's challenging. But you know, one of the other things I think is important to note if you look at the ADP report, UM specifically, they had a comment there about company size and company size fifty employees. They

added two jobs per a DP. Now, if you look at that, that's virtually almost all gains. So so what that tells me a little bit I interpret that as the larger companies right now have have got a little bit of the talent they're they're holding right now, they've got strategy, they're waiting to see what happens in the mid terms, but it's created an opportunity window for these small and midsized companies who have been fighting for the talent. They're finally starting to get some of it right now.

So that was encouraging for me to see small and midsized companies really make some gains. Um. I think we'll see the fruit of that in the next couple of months, certainly something we're going to keep our eye on. John Golnac of a Deco, we thank you as always for joining us an apologies again for the intro. I look forward to to having you back on the show. What also never gets old is analysis from a certain gentleman who has just a real affinity for looking at things

state by state. Of course, as a background in Muty bonds, so I feel like you never forget your first speak. Matthew Winkler, Editor in chief Meritis joins me right here in studio. Real pleasure I wanted before we get to your column. Is that true? You never forget your first beat. I think it's true, and it's always delight to be

with you. You're very sweet. Thank you. Um Well. He wrote this incredible column about Ohio specifically, when you think about globalization, Ohio doesn't necessarily immediately come to mind for me. It's New York or l A maybe, but right, you know, somewhere near the water m But he makes the argument that Ohio is actually benefited, perhaps more than others from globalization.

Walks through that. So you're absolutely right. If you are on the campaign trail, all you hear is very xenophobic comments about businesses overseas from both the Democrat and the Republican candidates for Senate j d Vance on the Republican side and Ryan among the Democrats. What is the reality, however, is that Ohio is um one of the greatest beneficiaries of globalization, as measured by the fact that it has more foreign owned factories per square thousand miles than any

other state in the country. And if you break that down even more, h every business, the publicly traded Giant, Procter and Gamble to family owned companies, they all are huge beneficiaries of trade with China, Canada, and Mexico. And that's a long running story. And if you consider that, probably the factory worker as we know it historically has been displaced mostly by automation. Ohio has actually been working because of globalization. So that's really the story and it

and it doesn't stop. But nobody talks about this. And every way you look at it, there's something like almost eight hundred foreign factories in Ohio. You can't miss them. I mean, if land in Columbus, for example, and just drive a little bit north you hit Marysville, Ohio, which is the center of Honda's North American UM production factory. Of course they at The argument that anti globalists would make is that it's added to the wealth gap between

rich and poor. That you know, so much labor can be farmed out to foreign countries and the US doesn't get that much in return. Are you seeing that in Ohio? Well, not really, because Ohio has done very well recruiting uh, not just Honda, but Siemens uh for example, air liquid from France. UM. It's done a great job recruiting companies from overseas and letting them prosper in Ohio, paying very high wages. By the way, all of these companies that are far and owned that operate in Ohio are the

ones that are providing the high is paying jobs. Now, the biggest employer in Ohio is Walmart. They have something like fifty five thousand what they call associates earning less than eighteen dollars an hour. And by the way, you're very well aware that Walmart gets a lot of its stuff and has been for some time from China. So there's Walmart employing more Ohioans than any other company. And Ohio is okay with that because Walmart is the biggest

employer in Ohio. So then factor in the politics of this. Now, what could change perhaps in Ohio given some of this rhetoric. Well, unfortunately, that's saying the truth is the first casualty, and we know it all too well in our own profession of journalism.

And UM, this contradiction, uh, and that's really what it is. UM. The lack of honesty on the campaign trail or even in the media narrative makes it difficult for people to accept what, in fact, uh is the reality for not just the US, but every modern economy in the world. We're all inter interdependent, really, UM, and that's not going to go away. I mean, even with all of the recent hostility towards China, global trade is a reality, and uh,

you know your your point about fair trade. That's something for politicians obviously to sort out. But in the meantime, people are working in Ohio because of globalization. I mean in some way, Matt, is this just a matter of you know, China is an easier political punching bag than automation to some extent, Well, it's it's easier insofar as China is an autocracy, I mean, where you want to

call it a dictatorship, So it's an easy target. Having said that, it's the second largest economy in the world, and it's the one that's grown the most UH in our lifetimes. So um, yeah, you can assail China. But just about every global business that we know of, UH does business in China. And it's two ways. I mean, Ohio, by the way, exports quite a bit of its stuff to China. It gets more of its stuff from China. But it's a two way trade, if you like. And

that's the reality for a lot of states. Of course. Matt Winkler Bloomberg News as founder and editor in chief emeritus, I might add wrote this incredible column. Folks check it out on Bloomberg dot Com and of course Bloomberg Opinion. O. P I N I'll go on your Bloomberg terminal. We are very excited to have him in studio, and of course he has I'm sure more columns ahead of the

midterms next week. We're very excited about this next guest joining us, especially ahead of mid terms, a really crucial moment, not just for the markets, but for politics as well. Is Governor Ned Lamont of the great state of Connecticut. He's running for re election in two of course, I guess Republican Bob Stefanowski, Governor, thank you as always for making the time to join us up. Myself and Nathan

are are very very excited to have you. I want to start off with a question about your business background. This is at the end of the day Bloomberg Radio. You and your opponent both have an extensive career in business and finance. But I'm curious if you think the Democratic Party has become too anti business or their policies aren't promoting enough economic growth. That's certainly some of the criticism that the Democratic Party has faced. I'll tell you

one thing gratty. I think they'd be well served to have more people with a business background. You see some in the governor's world, and I think that's really positive. UM. I worked very closely with Charlie Baker up in Massa Chosetts. We both have a business background, which I thought was very helpful. Gina Romando next door to me in Rhode Island before she went on the commerce And I do think I'm the first one UM in forever here in

the state of Connecticut with a business. I started up a business forty years ago building telecommunication systems came out of the cable TV and it's the likes of experience that I bring to this job every day, knowing what it means to was small business, how our policies would impact a small business. You know, Governor, your fellow governor Democrat of California, Gavin Newsom, has made no secret of his feeling that your party, the Democrats, are failing when

it comes to putting out a coherent economic message. Is that of you you share and if so, what can you do about it? I'll tell you what we've done here in Connecticut. Create something called Advanced CT so I get all the business leaders at the table. No more of this adversarial relationship or two very different spheres. There are best advocates for the state, Nathan, I mean, I'm

I'm a homer. When a company is thinking about coming to the state or expanding the state, Um, you know, you know what I'm gonna say and how I'm gonna push up When I can send them this abody who's an advanced manufacturing or i T or life sciences, who's part of our advanced CT team. That's a good way to reinvent and sell the company. Walk us through perhaps some of the key voter issues here. I mean, we've

talked about inflation, the economy. A lot of us from from Bloombergradi and bloomber Television are talking about just how much that is going to drive the drive voters to the polls. But it's also crime, it's abortion, it's immigration. What would you say is the number one issue that is driving voters? I think the economy front and center. Uh. Here in Connecticut we've been flat as a pancake for

thirty years. We hadn't added a new job in thirty years. Uh, and we were going from physical crisis to fiscal crisis. It was a pretty lousy story. And the last you know, four or five years, we're beginning to turn things around, and we've had four balanced budgets in a row. We did it without raising taxes. That sent a message loud and clear to the business community. Connecticut beginning to get its fiscal act and u together build on that. We

hadn't added jobs. Today, we've got created over a hundred thousand new jobs that were really working hard to fill right now. So when it comes to the economy, we're telling that story loud and clear. But there's no getting away from inflation and how that slams the middle class. And we did what we could. We put in place the biggest middle class tax cut in our history, and

that's money that when the people's pocket. As early as this summer, Governor, there is some pushback from the Biden administration at the moment against the idea that perhaps the federal reserve needs a recession to really fully tackle on inflation and in doing that have unemployment rise. Is Connecticut prepared for such a move. We're as prepared as you can be. For the first time ever. I've got a three and a half billion dollar rainy day fund. What

does that mean? It's about fifteen percent of our revenues. So I budgeted very conservatively. I assumed our capital gains was gonna be going down, not up this year already. Combine that with the fact that I got fiftum set aside in cash as necessary if our revenues shortfall. I don't want to do anything that upsets the apple cart. I don't want to raise any taxes. I don't want to slash education spending. That's what the ten previous governors

have done. That's not what I'm gonna do. At the national level, Governor, as you know, there's talk about lifting the debt ceiling if Democrats take back control of Congress, although here from many pollsters, they don't think that's gonna happen. Given the fiscal policy that you're putting forward in Connecticut. Is there something that Democrats can take away from on a national level from what you're doing in the state

of Connecticut. I think anything that gives people confidence you're dealing with your long term issues, just not the short term, makes the difference. It's a sense of direction. I don't

want anybody playing games with the debt ceiling. I've been through this before as an observer when we're gonna shut down government if we don't get our way, and now as a governor, I can tell you how disastrous that would be if there was a real risk that a lot of the ongoing support we get from the federal government was to be cut off all of a sudden. So I really hope that's not a game that Congress

is going to play. So, then, is the spending that we've seen from the BI part is an infrastructure Act the Inflation Reduction Act? Is that something that you support? That's up my support? Look, Nathan, I'm a We've got a hundred year old bridges and old roads, old rails, So this is a big deal for us. Every president seems to be talking about infrastructure. Of Biden's the first guy since Ike as far as I can figure out, to really be serious about it. Look, we're geographic. We're

between New York and Boston. I can take twenty minutes off your commute in each direction. It'll take you know, five or six years to do it. But these are the types of investments that the Infrastructure Bill allows us to make. But these infrastructure investments were meant to kind of manifest for lack of a better term, over a much longer time horizon. We're talking potentially ten years. It's not just about kind of roads and bridges. It's about say,

chip making facilities. Even I wonder, though, if there's a risk to the Democratic Party and to this massive infrastructure investment, if we not only see a Republican sweep in in this midterm election, but potentially a Republican president. I'd be very surprised if they wanted to roll back the Infrastructure Bill that that did have some bipartisans support, thank you, Mitt Romney and um that would surprise me. The Inflation

Reduction Act. Maybe you think we're putting too much money into UM charging stations or resiliency to prevent against flooding. But I think after Hurricane Ian people say, hey, probably these are investments worth making. You know, I think you'd probably have grid luck that the Republicans take over Congress and not much had happened for the next two years. But we've got a lot of our plate right now.

I've got to make sure it's appropriately invested. Of course, there's a lot of talk as well, Governor about rolling back entitlements, Social Security, Medicare Medicaid reform as well. You've even heard from Joe Mansion, the Democrat from West Virginia, saying that needs to be looked at as well. How much of a concern is that for you. I'll tell

you what we've done here in Connecticut, Nathan. Um. You know, they were talking about walking away from our pension obligations to state employees we couldn't afford it, and to let them fend for themselves. We've done just the opposite. Um. We've paid down, not just made the required contributions to the state veget funds, but paid down about ten percent of it. We're look, we're no showcase. We still have a big unfunded liability, but we're a lot better off

than we were before. And I really urged the federal government to take it seriously. Everybody sort of kicks the can on Social Security. You can't do that any longer. Look what Chip and Ronnie did back in nineteen eighty two or three. I think you'll see something like that going forward. That's a throwback tip and Ronnie, I want to ask you about that a little bit in terms

of the polarization we're seeing as well. I mean when you think of Tip O'Neil and Ronald Reagan, you think about you know, there was a time when the parties could at least make a show of working together. Now we have so much polarization in this country and threats of political violence as well. Of course, we saw what happened with the Speaker's husband last week. How do we get past this polarization in our politics? Governor, you gotta

turn down the rhetoric. First of all, Um, I don't get partisan much, but I think a lot of what Donald Trump was saying five years ago made the impermissible permissible. I can say here in Connecticut, I think we have lowered the temperature. I'm a business guy and a progressive, so I do pretty well with both wings, the Republican and Democrat. I work like heck to bring people together. We've done a fair amount on a bipartisan basis, and anything I could do in that way lowers the temperature,

respect the voting process. Democracy is not a spectator sport. Governor. I want to ask you about violence in America at the moment, specifically politically motivated violence in America. There's a wide by partisan majority of Americans who are worried about this issue, and I believe there's a new Washington Post ABC News poll that shows nearly nine how to ten Americans are concerned that political divisions have intensified to the

point that there's an increased risk of violence. Is something we've certainly seen here in New York City and across the country. I'm sad to say, but how do you tackle that? Social media has been a really um that pours gasoline on the flames, and people are watching that and a lot of things that you never say in person. You see gin dup uh. Some of that's political, some of it's just um, you know, threats. Somebody going online and making a threat about his school or something. What

do you do? Do you shut it down? How do you how do you handle that? Um? Number one um, Like I said, said, lower the temperature. I try and lead by example. I'm not a very polarizing guy, at least I hope I'm not. I think that makes a difference. And I think as if you see something, say something. When I see some of the anti Semitic and racist things that get um in graffiti and other threats, you've got to say something loud and clear. You can't do everything by law. You gotta do a lot by attitude.

Got about a minute left here, and we appreciate your time. Governor. We know you're focused, of course on your own re election race, but we want to get your take on what you see from the midterms. Lots of talk about a potential red wave. Is that what you're seeing from where you sit in Connecticut? I hope not. I um sometimes divided government's not all bad. You force people to the center and get things done. I think it was a big red wave that would just be um gridlock.

I'm not sure that's what you want, but I think you know, for the Democrats, you've got to take care of the everyday bread and butter, kitchen tabe issues. That's inflation and that's a crime. You've got to hit those hard. We've done that here in Connecticut, and I think that's a message that Democrats to take around the country. The governor, we thank you so much for your time. Governor, A real pleasure to have you on Bloomberg Radio. Governor Ned

Lamont of the great State of Connecticut. We thank you as always. Let's get the take from our one only Ed Ludlow are Bloomberg News West Coast correspondent. He joins us from San Francisco, once again going nationwide, from DC to New York to San Francisco. Ed, in the context of today's jobs report, where you saw such strength across the board, tech sending a very different message. Yeah, it's

been a really strange week. Um, let's stay out loud that the layoffs at Twitter are sort of specific and anomalous in the context of other tech layoffs, right, because Musk is doing something specific there. But what we've heard in the last twenty four hours is Stripe, one of the biggest par companies, laying off fourteen percent of staff, Lift the Right sharing platform laying off percent of staff, Amazon pulling back on its corporate worker footprint and hiring. Um,

and there are many others. Um it is. It is a picture incongruous with the macro picture painted by these jobs numbers. But then again, this is about tech and tech leaders and executives at these companies battening down the hatches because they're acting what we believe are signs of cracks in the strengths of the businesses that they're operating. Now that I know, even following all the developments with

Twitter very closely since Elon Musk took over ownership. There's been so many headlines just crossing in the last hour here about employees getting two months severance pay once they get let go, and now Elon Musk tweeting that the company has seen a massive drop in revenue from advertisers pulling out. What do you make of some of these latest moves? Yes, so on on the staff them selves.

I mean, let's just call this what this is. It's deeply unpleasant that many thousands of people are losing their jobs. I think that's worth stating. And that's not me giving an opinion. That's you know what I'm hearing from Twitter insiders, sources, and many people that have been laid off that I've spoken to. UM. The severance is not confirmed company wide. We believe it will be sixty days, but in New York City, for example, UM, I'm told that staff will

be kept as non working employees through February second. They will be paid significant severance in that period, but they'll also stay long enough for another UM batch of restricted stock units to vest an rsu Cliff, which you know is additional compensation. Musk has not addressed the issues of layoffs. As you said, he tweeted that right now, he's not talking about in the past, he's talking about in this moment, Twitter's revenues being hit, advertisers are pulling back. That's a

concession from him. And why will Elon Musk's mind. What he's saying is it's because these advertisers are being pressured by lobby groups who are concerned about content moderation on the platform. And I also read I believe when we're new reporting, which I want to say your name was on this, but I'm not sure, but this idea that a lot of these Twitter employees who haven't yet heard about their jobs actually joining unions, some of them even

already forming a Twitter alumni network. What does this due to the credibility of Twitter as a company one it does ultimately want to hire in the future. Yeah. Look, before Musk took over Twitter as a company of people across the world, Asia, EMA, New York City, San Francisco, it had a very distinct company culture. Um. Much of that was carried over from Jack Dawsey's leadership into paragag Row.

You know, some of the reporting we've done, for example, is that Musk has taken pretty severe actions like canceling what they call a day of rest, and there was so much readership at this story on the terminal, I couldn't believe it. So basically, you know, throughout the pandemic period, there was one day month where Twitter staff were given the day off to kind of recuperate, a day of rest, and must got rid of that. Um, he's kind of That's just one example of him. I'm doing the culture.

So on the unionization effort, Um, what does it mean for Twitter long term? It's impossible to say. You know, all I can tell you is that there are lots of people UM at Twitter at all levels, whether it's sales, engineering, marketing, who loved that company and are desperately sad that they've been part of this layoff process. And and you know, many people, I'm told by sources, we're trying to find

creative ways to stay. They volunteered for kind of the projects that Musk was pushing, like Vine or the Twitter Blue project, because they felt that if they volunteered for such a project, they might be seen as sort of willing and Musk might keep them. UM. But you know, unionized Asian efforts across technology have been a mixed bag this year. I think about Amazon for example, Guys, they've had some successes but also some failures to um in

in unionizing different workplaces. Well just quickly, and we know how resisting elon Musk is to unionization just from what we've seen it. Tesla keeps going forward. And now when we have a class action lawsuit against the layoffs on unfolding, I mean, what could this mean for worker musk relations in the new Twitter? Yes, so um Musk was sued. Twitter was sued by a class action lawsuit here in

San Francisco. The accusation is that workers say the company did these layoffs with the now without giving enough notice based on federal law. I'm talking about warn notices right. Um. We actually are still trying to report this out, but I imagine that there will be a number of lawsuits over the timing and how these layoffs were communicated, both in line with federal and state laws. Bloomers at Luve Law always a pleasure of joining us from San Francisco.

Never a day of rest. I don't know when he sleeps. By the way, breaking news left and right on on some of this for the organization. We thank you as always for your time for your insight, Nathan. An exciting day for us, headline number on for the for the for the Job's day. For the market, perhaps not so much because it doesn't feel like there's a clear message.

Two sixty one thousand jobs on an estimate of just one, right, A little bit of a mixed bag when you see that kind of strong creation number on the payrolls and also a little bit of an uptick on the unemployment rate as well. It's uh, maybe giving investors a little bit of direction to look for, but certainly the direction for the markets is up, up, up at the moment. It is even as we start to see average hourly earnings to hire as well the labor force participation rate

coming in line with estimates. But are we where we need to be? And is the Federal Reserve happy with this number. Let's bring in our next guest here, Jeffrey Cleveland, chief economists over at Payden and Regal, to get his take. Jeffrey, thank you as always for joining us this number that we got from the Job's Report. From a fiscal perspective,

the Biden administration clearly celebrating more jobs in America. But how much much of a margin of deceleration do we need to really see the Federal r reserve excuse me, perhaps take their foot off the book, Gospital. Well, I mean, I tell you there's something for everyone in this report. If you want to be bullish, you point to the non farm payroll beat. You want to be bearished, then maybe you point to the household survey in the rise in the unemployment rate. So you can probably tell any

story you want to tell. I would tell you, though you probably want to put more emphasis on the establishment survey. And you know, if we're adding jobs, you know, the three months average of almost two nine thousand jobs per

months in the last three months, this really strong job growth. Um, the Fed you've talked to you listen to share Powell the other day talking about the labor market being out of balance, and um, certainly you know from the payroll data today it's just confirmation of that you have very strong job growth. So I think the Fed probably prefer much slower job growth enough to get unemployment rate up

UM maybe a percentage point. So that would that would mean I mean, if you do the math, you need job growth really to stall out to fall under a hundred thousand per month, and we're not seeing that two

hundred today, you know, Jeffrey. I wonder if a lot of investors sort of took note of the commentary today from Richmond FED President Thomas Barkins saying that we can credibly say now that the FED has its foot on the break, does this job's report can keep up the case for them that they can start to slow down on rates or does there need to be more data

coming in. I don't think that. I think it's too soon to jump to that conclusion, but I have to tell you, I mean again, you look at that household survey. You could say, well, the unemployment rate rose a bit, that's a sign of the economy slowing. I don't know if I would say that it's very choppy, noisy survey. Um, the unemployment rate has been kind of bouncing around where it is now for for the better part of the

last six months. The household serve is really choppy. Um, it's had some big gains and some in down months. I don't know. I wouldn't I wouldn't confirm that. Also, the wage growth data has slowed maybe a little bit month to month. I think the increase today was point four percent month to month, a little bit slower than we saw, you know, earlier this year and then last year, but point four month a month is still pretty strong

wage growth. We're hanging out around five percent year on year wage growth, and that is not consistent, in my view, with two percent inflation. I think it's far too soon for the Fed to say they're they're putting the brakes on here. Thank you, Jeffrey Cleveland. I'm so glad you said that, because I literally have asked a lot of economists on the show whether to a two percent inflation target is actually reasonable um um in the long term when you have this sticky wage inflation, uh that that

won't really go away. But I'm curious how that squares with, for example, the Biden administrations moves to on shore a lot of manufacturing on shore, a lot of production. Doesn't that just create um a tailwind if you will, for labor market that needs to have some of the steam let out. It depends. I mean, in terms of inflation, we have benefited from twenty five or thirty years of globalization and technology. Where are our goods? The good side of your CPI ledger if you will. Goods prices were

falling for most of that period. Um, so if on shoring means it's going to be much more expensive to produce goods, then you know that could be a problem for overall inflation. The reason we had to present inflation for the better part of two decades, you know, leading into COVID, was that goods prices were falling and that was off setting roughly three percent services inflation. So it

is to get back to that scenario. To get back to that two percent story, you probably need to see goods prices falling again, because I don't think we're going to see a big distileration and services side. I don't know if that makes sense, but that's that's how I think about it. If we can on shore and still produce goods very very cheaply, then and maybe that will work out fine for the inflation story. We just have

to see. I think it's too soon to have a really strong conviction on that on that part of the story. So just thirty seconds left here, Jeffrey is to percent a realistic inflation target not in the next twelve months, No, I don't think so, just because what we're seeing on the services side um and then the good side. We've we've seen goods prices to decelerate, but there not enough, and we're seeing very strong, as you know, services price growth,

everything for medical care services to rents. We'll get an update next week. Right, I'm looking for another month of point five percent months and months growth, so that is very strong inflation. So it's it's hard to see two percent in the next year. I'm so glad we had this conversation, Jeffrey Cleveland. I just feel very relieved that someone agrees with me. Jeffrey Cleveland, Chief Economists over at Paydon Regal. We thank you, as always for your insight

in your time on this job day in America. Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg Markets podcast. You can subscribe and listen to interview is an Apple Podcasts or whatever podcast platform you prefer. I'm Matt Miller. I'm on Twitter at Matt Miller three. On Fall Sweeney, I'm on Twitter at pt Sweeney before the podcast. You can always catch us worldwide at Bloomberg Radio